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Is This the End of the Cavs As We Know Them?
You could always count on LeBron James and a history of success. … Until now.
![[image loading]](https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/Bzmz4Q_4slFZpfuCVoZbNAnFpPU=/0x0:5472x3648/920x613/filters:focal(532x1392:1406x2266)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/58608127/lebron_chau_getty_ringer.0.jpg)
It’s Groundhog Day in Cleveland, and has been for damn near two months. It’s the same recurring nightmare: a Cavs team in sleep paralysis, a helpless bystander to its own decay while a nation patiently waits for everything to return to normal. It’s long since blurred with reality; the nightmare is that this is normal. This team, more than past iterations, is a strange collection of players who have all seemingly reached the same point in their careers where nothing is as easy to execute as it used to be. The team is full of big-name mercenaries (Isaiah Thomas, Dwyane Wade, Derrick Rose) who are all in the throes of discovering what’s left of their skills from a physical standpoint. In that sense, each of them serves as a separate microcosm of Cleveland’s grand existential quandary: In trying to live up to a past standard, they’ve lost sight of the unique challenges that they face in the present, to which there are few precedents. The issue isn’t novel; the Cavs have struggled with it for the entirety of James’s second run in Cleveland—they’ve been a top-10 defense only once in the past four seasons. But it’d be a mistake to conflate this season’s struggles with any of the others. The team’s current roster construction is fatally flawed in a way it wasn’t before. And while we all hate to make the Little Guy the scapegoat, the more data we have on Thomas’s performance this season, the more it becomes clear just how apocalyptic he is to the Cavs defense. The best defense IT has played all season has come during off-court interviews when he has aggressively justified his play. The losing is not his fault entirely, and it never will be. But the Cavs simply aren’t built to compensate for the worst defensive player in the NBA. Fifty of those 70 points in the paint were scored while Thomas was in the game. Teams outscore the Cavaliers by 15.1 points per 100 possessions when he’s on the court. His defensive presence turns even average NBA teams into the greatest offenses in NBA history.
Full article
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On February 08 2018 07:59 Yaqoob wrote:
@ Twinkle Toes
I just watched that video and I couldn't understand why Lebron would play like that. He didn't even try and be open at the 3 point line. I guess he either didn't care or doesn't like IT.
I doubt it has anything to do with IT. He's been taking possessions off for years when he is tired or trying to conserve energy. Usually he just stands in the corner with his hands on his knees. It just turns out that taking offensive possessions off is a lot more detrimental when your offense is run through 2018 IT instead of 2016 Kyrie or 2011 D. Wade. It seems like this game he was trying to make a better effort at getting back on D, which is why he was loitering at halfcourt instead of in the corner. You can see him already try to get back on D when Jae Crowder misses.
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On February 08 2018 06:18 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
meh,
i think trying to read someone's emotions from posts is a guessing game. stick to the content of the post.
i'd rather talk about the NBA than the "emotion" behind Ace's posts.
We're watching Father Time defeat LBJ.
The Celtics and Raptors are loaded with players under 26 who are constantly getting better within good developmental systems. meanwhile, LBJ is slowly deteriorating. Gilbert's money can cover up a lot of FO mistakes... his money can't stop the aging process.
this is sorta what it was like watching the Tampa Bay Devil Rays take out the New York Yankees.
Smartest poster in this thread.
After myself, of course.
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On February 08 2018 07:59 Yaqoob wrote:
@ Twinkle Toes
I just watched that video and I couldn't understand why Lebron would play like that. He didn't even try and be open at the 3 point line. I guess he either didn't care or doesn't like IT.
I have a theory... It might partially be due to infighting, or fuck you to Gilbert, or cruising for the playoffs, or just gave up on this season, but it is really just that Lebron is old and over the hill already. I have (prematurely) said this last season and even the one before that after players like KCP, Patty Mills, a Pacers guy, another Detroit guy, and many other non-athletic players continuously run him around in circles in defense and block him on the rim. But the 2016 championship (which should be credited to Kyrie more than to him as Kyrie went godmode in games 5-7 while Lebron wilted, with the occasional highlight plays to mask this), and great games and performances during the 2017 playoffs, and a great start this season, made me hope LBJ has
But this seems like it. Like when Wizards' Jordan's fade away was sauce for athletic shot blockers (like Kobe) and he had to push back to do a veteran move on the rookie to get them out of his shot, or Kobe in his last season with his quadruple and quintuple fakes and his 2-inch jumps on fade aways. It sometime happens overnight. LBJ has 14 straight 35+ minutes seasons without any significant injury.
I hope LBJ gets a final superstar push this season. It's ugly if it ends this way.
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On February 08 2018 08:39 Twinkle Toes wrote:
But the 2016 championship (which should be credited to Kyrie more than to him as Kyrie went godmode in games 5-7 while Lebron wilted, with the occasional highlight plays to mask this),.
What...?
Game 5 - 41 PTS, 16 REB, 7 AST, 3 STL, 3 BLK, 2 TOV
Game 6 - 41 PTS, 8 REB, 11 AST, 4 STL, 3 BLK, 1 TOV
Game 7 - 27 PTS, 11 REB, 11 AST, 2 STL, 3 BLK, 5 TOV
Let's average that shit out
36.3 / 11.7 / 9.7 / 3 / 3 with 2.7 TOV
That's wilting to you?
Let's not forget that in this finals he led ALL PLAYERS on BOTH teams in Points, Rebounds, Assists, Steals, and Blocks.
Yeah totally Kyrie's championship... I give up.
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since XMas LBJ has the worst +/- in the NBA and a -40 for the season.
On February 08 2018 09:08 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2018 06:18 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
meh,
i think trying to read someone's emotions from posts is a guessing game. stick to the content of the post.
i'd rather talk about the NBA than the "emotion" behind Ace's posts.
We're watching Father Time defeat LBJ.
The Celtics and Raptors are loaded with players under 26 who are constantly getting better within good developmental systems. meanwhile, LBJ is slowly deteriorating. Gilbert's money can cover up a lot of FO mistakes... his money can't stop the aging process.
this is sorta what it was like watching the Tampa Bay Devil Rays take out the New York Yankees. I'm glad to see the personal growth JimmyJ, for a guy who's go to rebuttal is. "are you mad bro" it is great to see that you are growing. Maybe there is hope for you yet! Great news!
u r doing it again, talking about posters and not the NBA.
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On February 08 2018 08:52 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2018 08:39 Twinkle Toes wrote:
But the 2016 championship (which should be credited to Kyrie more than to him as Kyrie went godmode in games 5-7 while Lebron wilted, with the occasional highlight plays to mask this),. What...? Game 5 - 41 PTS, 16 REB, 7 AST, 3 STL, 3 BLK, 2 TOV Game 6 - 41 PTS, 8 REB, 11 AST, 4 STL, 3 BLK, 1 TOV Game 7 - 27 PTS, 11 REB, 11 AST, 2 STL, 3 BLK, 5 TOV Let's average that shit out 36.3 / 11.7 / 9.7 / 3 / 3 with 2.7 TOV That's wilting to you? Let's not forget that in this finals he led ALL PLAYERS on BOTH teams in Points, Rebounds, Assists, Steals, and Blocks. Yeah totally Kyrie's championship... I give up.
I was hoping you'd reply!
Game 5
LBJ : 41pts / +13
Kyrie: 41pts / +20
LBJ : 41pts / +26
Kyrie: 23pts / +25
LBJ : 27pts / +4
Kyrie: 26pts / +10
It's not all about points. LBJ will get his numbers, he can score 50 with eyes closed. But most importantly, in crucial points when the Warriors are getting a run or when the Cavs were imploding (starting with Lebron!) it was Kyrie who stepped up and won the games. Watch the games again to see for yourself. Klay and Curry were getting and poised to even the score and take over the game, Kyrie make 2 crucial defensive plays to stop the bleeding and made 8 points later, including an impossible layup that took away all the momentum from the Warriors and made. Game 6 3Q when the game was once again close in the 60s and 70s, it was Kyrie who hustled, again, two crucial rebounds and aggressive drives got them on the line constantly and broke the Warriors' run and gave them the cushion lead that they will hold until the end. And Game 7, nothing more could be said about the shot.
Yes. Lebron wilted in crucial moments when he, as a self-proclaimed goat, should not ever.
Anything more?
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Detroit's arena looks like giant NASCAR Chevy... and whenever they can't sell a square foot of ad space they just stick a little ceasar's pizza logo there...
there must be 1000 little ceasar's pizza ads.
its sorta looks like they're hurtin' for cash.
On February 08 2018 09:33 JimmiC wrote:
As are you, irony? Just trying to give you some positive reinforcement buddy, but perhaps you did not mean it?
i'd rather talk NBA than this boring stuff.
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On February 08 2018 09:17 JimmyJRaynor wrote:since XMas LBJ has the worst +/- in the NBA and a -40 for the season. Show nested quote +On February 08 2018 09:08 JimmiC wrote:On February 08 2018 06:18 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
meh,
i think trying to read someone's emotions from posts is a guessing game. stick to the content of the post.
i'd rather talk about the NBA than the "emotion" behind Ace's posts.
We're watching Father Time defeat LBJ.
The Celtics and Raptors are loaded with players under 26 who are constantly getting better within good developmental systems. meanwhile, LBJ is slowly deteriorating. Gilbert's money can cover up a lot of FO mistakes... his money can't stop the aging process.
this is sorta what it was like watching the Tampa Bay Devil Rays take out the New York Yankees. I'm glad to see the personal growth JimmyJ, for a guy who's go to rebuttal is. "are you mad bro" it is great to see that you are growing. Maybe there is hope for you yet! Great news! u r doing it again, talking about posters and not the NBA.
TBH, I'm surprised JJ. I didn't want to respond because I thought it was just me, but hearing another person say it was pleasant. For the entirety of our NBA discussion here since last year, all your Kobe's-one-foot-take-off-shortened-his-career, to DRose-landing-mechanics, to Wiggins being a below-average scrub, and to all your Raptors whatever shit no one cares about, I was shocked to agree with your points, not once, but twice - on Lebron being old and on the contrast of proper good teams and zombie teams assembled by players.
Anyway, you do you JJ, and here's wonderwall.
![[image loading]](https://images.katori.com/katori?set=sku[K-LP-C1-0404],d[K-LP-C1-0404],vid[1],ar[1.00],img[http%3A%2F%2Fnba.katori.com%2Fcache%2Fgetty%2F915125222.jpg],cf[live]&call=url[file:live/wall-decor.chn]&sink&1500479632)
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On February 08 2018 09:30 Twinkle Toes wrote:
Game 6 3Q when the game was once again close in the 60s and 70s, it was Kyrie who hustled, again, two crucial rebounds and aggressive drives got them on the line constantly and broke the Warriors' run and gave them the cushion lead that they will hold until the end.
I don't know why I bother responding... I guess just to set the record straight in case anybody else is reading these posts and assumes some false opinion about this finals series from reading this nonsense.
So here are the facts about Game 6, where supposedly Kyrie had the huge plays that kept the game out of reach for the Warriors.
First of all, the 3rd quarter was never even close. The cavs started the quarter with a 16 point lead. With 7:00 left in the quarter it was a 21 point lead. With 3:00 left it was still a 19-point lead. With 1:30 left in the quarter it was still a 17 point lead. Then Klay caught fire and scored 8 straight points to bring the lead for the Cavs to 9 to start the 4th quarter. In the 4th quarter, LeBron scored 17 points. Kyrie scored 1 point, from a technical free throw.
Game 6 scoring -
3rd quarter -
Kyrie: 2 points
LeBron: 10 points
4th quarter -
Kyrie: 1 point (from a technical free throw)
LeBron: 17 points
For the entire 2nd half
Kyrie: 3 points
LeBron: 27 points
Oh but I'm sure he had some super clutch rebound that really deflated the Warriors spirit! What? The only time the game got close in the entire 2nd half was going into the 4th quarter. And in the 4th Kyrie was 0-2, had 0 rebounds, 1 assist, 0 steals, 0 blocks, 1 turnover, and 1 point from a technical FT. LeBron is the one that put the game out of reach. From the start of the quarter until the time the Cavs cleared their bench for garbage time the Cavs had 30 points. LBJ scored or assisted on 27 of those 30 points.
Anything more?
Yes, Skip. Please tell us more about Kyrie's amazing 3 pointer while glossing over one of the most clutch defensive plays in history. Also if you can mention Ray Allen saving LeBron's legacy you get bonus points.
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the bad... then good ... then bad again Minnie defense perfectly coincides with Teague's injury.
Tyler Jones is better.
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On February 08 2018 06:18 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
meh,
i think trying to read someone's emotions from posts is a guessing game. stick to the content of the post.
i'd rather talk about the NBA than the "emotion" behind Ace's posts.
We're watching Father Time defeat LBJ.
The Celtics and Raptors are loaded with players under 26 who are constantly getting better within good developmental systems. meanwhile, LBJ is slowly deteriorating. Gilbert's money can cover up a lot of FO mistakes... his money can't stop the aging process.
this is sorta what it was like watching the Tampa Bay Devil Rays take out the New York Yankees.
I think Father Time is catching up to LBJ and the rest of the Cavs as well. I saw this image on reddit last month
+ Show Spoiler +
Cavs are old as hell. The same thing happened with the Heatles, which was also the oldest team in the NBA by the time Lebron left. They were both great veteran teams ideal for winning championships, but by year 4 they start to show their age. It's time for LeBron to move onto the next younger team to suck their life force so he can play forever.
I think the other half of it is that LeBron is not leading by example. Not getting back on D, complaining to refs about calls, taking possessions off, cherry picking instead of playing defense. He's been doing that stuff for a while but it seems before his teammates used to pick up his slack. I think they are starting to mimic his effort. Why should they hustle back on D to play 4-on-5 if their leader isn't going to? I think LeBron needs to look in the mirror if he wants this team to improve.
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i did some digging to figure out where the new miami heat uni colours came from...
+ Show Spoiler +
i'm a Columbo fan myself.
+ Show Spoiler +
Columbo > Miami Vice.
On February 08 2018 11:06 BlackJack wrote:
I think Father Time is catching up to LBJ and the rest of the Cavs as well.
yep.
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On February 08 2018 10:15 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2018 09:30 Twinkle Toes wrote:
Game 6 3Q when the game was once again close in the 60s and 70s, it was Kyrie who hustled, again, two crucial rebounds and aggressive drives got them on the line constantly and broke the Warriors' run and gave them the cushion lead that they will hold until the end. I don't know why I bother responding... I guess just to set the record straight in case anybody else is reading these posts and assumes some false opinion about this finals series from reading this nonsense. So here are the facts about Game 6, where supposedly Kyrie had the huge plays that kept the game out of reach for the Warriors. First of all, the 3rd quarter was never even close. The cavs started the quarter with a 16 point lead. With 7:00 left in the quarter it was a 21 point lead. With 3:00 left it was still a 19-point lead. With 1:30 left in the quarter it was still a 17 point lead. Then Klay caught fire and scored 8 straight points to bring the lead for the Cavs to 9 to start the 4th quarter. In the 4th quarter, LeBron scored 17 points. Kyrie scored 1 point, from a technical free throw. Game 6 scoring - 3rd quarter - Kyrie: 2 points LeBron: 10 points 4th quarter - Kyrie: 1 point (from a technical free throw) LeBron: 17 points For the entire 2nd half Kyrie: 3 pointsLeBron: 27 pointsOh but I'm sure he had some super clutch rebound that really deflated the Warriors spirit! What? The only time the game got close in the entire 2nd half was going into the 4th quarter. And in the 4th Kyrie was 0-2, had 0 rebounds, 1 assist, 0 steals, 0 blocks, 1 turnover, and 1 point from a technical FT. LeBron is the one that put the game out of reach. From the start of the quarter until the time the Cavs cleared their bench for garbage time the Cavs had 30 points. LBJ scored or assisted on 27 of those 30 points. Yes, Skip. Please tell us more about Kyrie's amazing 3 pointer while glossing over one of the most clutch defensive plays in history. Also if you can mention Ray Allen saving LeBron's legacy you get bonus points.
Skeeep Skeeeeeep Skeeeeuuuuuppp!
We both saw the game. You saw Lebron 100 points and conclude he is without flaw. While dismissing the actual quality of points and defensive possessions in the game that have direct impact to the final results.
Ok then.
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On February 08 2018 10:05 JimmiC wrote:
He is at a weird spot where, to me, the haters underrate him tons and the fans overrate him tons.
So true!
I will say this run has shown he can no longer carry a team.
True also.
but I still think he is one of, if not the best player in bball.
Disagree. KD is the best now.
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![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/DzbkP5T.png)
Holy fuck that age gap. How old is DRose? I think he is just somewhere mid 20s?
And lol at Mavs.28 seems to be the sweet spot when superstars hit prime and lift their teams, but then there's Dirk's team. I guess the Mavs is a bunch of very old players and very young players?
Celtics, Toronto, and Sixers have all the potential to take over the league.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://www.joblo.com/newsimages1/mv-ff-fb.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://static01.nyt.com/images/2011/06/25/obituaries/25falk2_337-inline/25falk2_337-inline-popup.jpg)
