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George Hill was a very good PG for years. He is a proven playoff performer.
His ESPN Real PLus Minus before this year is a good indicator of how good a player he is at both ends of the floor.
He is not an elite PG ... but 1 step below that.
last year he had ORPM of 2.64 and a DRPM of 1.11
only 5 PGs were substantially better than he was last year.
http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/year/2017/sort/RPM/position/1
Great moves by Cleveland.
On January 30 2018 08:30 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2018 07:54 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
my biggest concern with a George Hill trade to Cleveland was the money Cleveland would have to spend. they are in the 4X range for tax. so they are taxed 4X as much money as any new salary they add. and it looks like money is the problem. George Hill isn't willing to give up money he agreed to just a few months ago.
Ryan Hollins//Brian Windhorst.
"George Hill has a pretty hefty contract and it looks like he wants every penny of it. Windhorst also mentions that the Cavs recent lineups changes and Frye's return to the rotation have played a part in the decision to put the deal on hold, for now." Yep, looks like you were wrong. Oh well.
looks like i was partially correct.
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Does the Wade trade mean they are giving up?
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Sad to see Wade and Frye go. Glad to see IT go
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the battles between Cleveland, Boston and Toronto the rest of the year should be very good.
On February 09 2018 02:18 JimmiC wrote:
Clarkson and nance to cavs
Cavs 1st isiah thomas and frye to lakers.
Wowza
great move by cleveland.
On February 09 2018 04:52 Jerubaal wrote:
Does the Wade trade mean they are giving up?
no Cleveland is trying to win this year.
On February 09 2018 04:53 BlackJack wrote:
Sad to see Wade and Frye go. Glad to see IT go
the George Hill//Lowry//Irving battles will be worth the cost of the NBA League Pass. 
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thomas, frye, shumpert, wade, crowder, rose all gone.
i think George Hill is going to be getting a lot of minutes.
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On February 09 2018 05:40 JimmiC wrote:
Was it not "your part" about the 2nd round pick, and the rest was WOJ? Or are you now trying to take credit for sniffing out the rumor?
my "part" was subscribing to the "Hill to Cleveland" general rumour that started a week or two before WOJ got really really specific. my concern was Hill's salary and the Cavs 4X repeater tax situation.
interesting the cleveland players WOJ had in his proposed trade did leave Cleveland during deadline trade moves. So its not like WOJ was way way off.
On February 09 2018 05:40 JimmiC wrote:
Hill looks like one of the flaws in RAPM not a great player. I guess we will see if it was just a "effort" issue or not. That being said Cavs pretty much blew it up, so whatever change we see in them could be him or nance and Clarkson or whatever.
nah, Hill is 1 small step worse than Lowry. Lowry is very good. ESPN RPM has Hill and Lowry accurately measured from 2015 to 2017. Hill is very good.
Watch the 2016 7-game series between the Pacers and Raptors..... Hill was really good on both ends of the floor. watch Utah's playoff games last year... again Hill was good.
Hill is very good and a proven playoff performer and ESPN Real Plus/Minus nicely captured that from 2014-2015 to 2016-2017.
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On February 09 2018 07:11 JimmiC wrote:
Gotcha, so when the you agree with RAPM it is right when you don't it is measuring effort.
I also must have missed your post in Dec about Hill to the Cavs I only read it after it was already on every rumor site in mid January and than when you took credit for it on the 23rd, then back tracked the 2nd rounder was your piece. Only bringing this up because you brought up Black jacks post as if it was wrong, when it was correct.
to be accurate RAPM is based only on Plus/Minus statistic that is in the public domain. RAPM = Regularized Adjusted Plus-Minus.
xRAPM is a proprietary metric based primarily on Plus/Minus but also on other stats and is licensed to ESPN by Engelmann.
sometimes, i mix these 2 acronyms and play fast and loose with them. for clarity, i'm referring in my last few posts to xRAPM when i say ESPN Real Plus-Minus.
On February 09 2018 07:11 JimmiC wrote:
I also must have missed your post in Dec about Hill to the Cavs
here u go.
the Cavs are taking on more salary... Gilbert can be criticized for lots of things... but he spends money.
George Hill didn't make any money concessions.
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So are the Cavs serious championship contentder again?
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On February 09 2018 07:36 Twinkle Toes wrote:
So are the Cavs serious championship contentder again?
I don't think they are worse, but I also don't think they are much better. Clarckson and Lebron wont work well together at first, perhaps not ever.
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On February 09 2018 07:41 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2018 07:36 Twinkle Toes wrote:
So are the Cavs serious championship contentder again? I don't think they are worse, but I also don't think they are much better. Clarckson and Lebron wont work well together at first, perhaps not ever.
At least they got rid of their old players. Don't see much Lakers, but why would he not work well with Lebron? George Hill seems a good fit...
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Also poor IT's ego. This must hurt along, knowing that Cavs held on KLove. Damn IT is the worst hit by this trade. I think his Boston tribute is poof now?
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On February 09 2018 07:40 JimmiC wrote:
As for your unnatural love of Rapm and it's variants, no need to bring up the discussion again, whether it is here or Reddit, you have been thrashed over and over. You don't understand it, you worship it, and when there is a change in it you blame "effort"without ever considering that it is not the perfect catch all stat you would like to believe it is. If you wanna go over it again feel free to PM me I'm happy to but I don't think the vast majority of readers of this thread (or any) are interested in the discussion. But buddy, I'll help you out!
nah, i understand it just fine. i'll bring it up when it fits.
you can also watch George Hill's last 2 playoffs if you'd like to see his effectiveness as a player at both ends of the floor.
On February 09 2018 07:40 JimmiC wrote:
You don't understand it, you worship it, and when there is a change in it you blame "effort"without ever considering that it is not the perfect catch all stat you would like to believe it is.
incorrect.
Vanilla Plus-Minus, Adjusted Plus-Minus, Regularized Adjusted Plus-Minus, and ESPN Real Plus minus can all provide insight when used properly. I've already provided a framework for its usage in player evaluation. So has Engelmann.
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LOL JJ you are the best unintentional comedy. Don't mind the haters. Keep on posting your stats and predictions and analysis!
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On February 09 2018 07:52 Twinkle Toes wrote:
Also poor IT's ego. This must hurt along, knowing that Cavs held on KLove. Damn IT is the worst hit by this trade. I think his Boston tribute is poof now?
he'll get it next year
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On February 09 2018 08:12 zev318 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2018 07:52 Twinkle Toes wrote:
Also poor IT's ego. This must hurt along, knowing that Cavs held on KLove. Damn IT is the worst hit by this trade. I think his Boston tribute is poof now? he'll get it next year
And didn't he make a statement in the last minutes before the deadline of wanting to stay in Cleveland?
Interesting that there are no movements by the other big teams. I was hoping the Bradley to Spurs things will push through. And Kemba goes to a contender.
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That Cavs experiment was whack. Whoever put it together should receive the ignoble prize in thinking.
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EPT
