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Isaiah Thomas Talked His Way Out of Cleveland
How did the feel-good story of last season go from MVP candidate to cast-off in a matter of months?
And which IT will show up in Los Angeles?
![[image loading]](https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/0-21T8JQKMoIUdmN2H5uPL8iuX0=/0x0:3000x1997/920x613/filters:focal(1260x759:1740x1239)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/58630231/isaiah_talked_getty_ringer.0.jpg)
or the past few weeks, Isaiah Thomas has been talking like someone who doesn’t watch Isaiah Thomas play basketball. Thomas’s return to the court in Cleveland coincided with the deterioration of the team’s contender status. Statistically, the Cavs had more in common with the Kings than the Warriors, cementing themselves as one of the worst defensive teams in the league with Thomas posting the worst defensive rating by any player who’s played at least 25 minutes per game in the last 25 years. And through it all, Thomas was a nonstop chatterbox—a mirror for every player on the team except himself.Wednesday was a perfect microcosm of the failed Cleveland-Thomas experiment. Thomas called out the team, and really his coach, for not making in-game adjustments. “When we hit adversity, we go our separate ways,” Thomas said after the team lost a game in which it had a 21-point lead to a 17-36 Orlando team. “Guys start to go one-on-one on offense, and the defense, it’s every man for himself.”Ty Lue responded to Thomas’s claims by saying they were “not true.” But on Wednesday, Lue did adjust, just at the expense of Thomas. It was the right move. For most of his career, Thomas has used being overlooked as a renewable energy source. Imagine what level of self-belief it takes to make it to the league. Now imagine what it would take for a 5-foot-9 guy who’s been told he’s not big enough his whole life. When you’re that size and the thing you offer is so specific, the margins are thin: If you fall off, you are useless. And in Cleveland, Thomas didn’t just become useless; he became a nuisance.
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on 100 3 point attempts Siakam has hit 17. 17% 3-point shooter 
the Wright-VanVleet tandem was as good or better than Lowry-Derozan tonight.
Zach Lavine is back and Chicago's defense is garbage.. what a coincidence.
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On February 09 2018 11:20 JimmiC wrote:
Wizard up by 2 at half, if they win they will be 7-1 since Wall got hurt. Not to mention all the "team" talk since he went down (beal and gortat both tweeted things like great "team" vicotry, and everyone eats now. Be interesting to see how they react when he gets back and if he is a possible trade target in the off season.
Wall is another unchecked ego player and may go down full IT, but it's too early, and Gortat is old, and Wall has shown that he has it. Another NBA drama to follow, but I want Wall and the Wiz to succeed so we have a legit Eastern conference. Between Beal and Wall though, it's closer now that it used to be.
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Delon Wright is putting on a show... it looks like the Harlem Globetrotters against the Washington Generals at the Air Canada Centre tonight!
Lowry and Derozan ain't playin' much these days.
PREDICTION: people are going to start printing fake Raptor tickets after the game is over due to their new free Popeye's Chicken Promotion.
a Raptors ticket for a game with 12 3s gets you 3 free chicken tenders. you used to have to get your ticket stamped at a special Kiosk in the Air Canada Centre to be able get a free Pizza slice for 100 points. Now no stamp is required and its Chicken Tenders which are way better than Pizza.
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On February 09 2018 08:29 Twinkle Toes wrote:
Here's a w-t-f rumor that's lost in the trade deadline buzz
That is beyond insane
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i asked for Jonas Valanciunas to be Toronto's primary scoring option throughout a whole game and not just the 1st half. JV and Ibaka led Toronto in shot attempts with 12.
i hope they keep feeding the ball to JV.
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On February 09 2018 11:29 JimmiC wrote:
If only a team was smart enough to put
Tyus Jones
Fred Vanleet
Delon Wright
....
Spencer Dinwiddie is better than these 3 guys.
he is my "low cost" point guard of choice.
the only decision Brooklyn has to make is which side of the bench to stick Jeremy Lin next year.
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Rose might end up with the Timberwolves.
On February 09 2018 09:44 Twinkle Toes wrote:
Anyway, my last word on this: this is why I say you are comically funny because you are obviously not mentally well, you can't even hold a normal conversation where people exchange ideas and follow through on the normal process of the exchange. You even lie about something that is easy to refute lol.
From NBA drama to TL/nba drama wow! Don't worry JJ, just you do your thing, I love it.
my mental health is fine. i already posted one of your insult-filled bans. i'm not going through every one of the bans you've had in this thread.
Also, you just had a post mod-edited due to giant image files.
On February 09 2018 10:44 JimmiC wrote:
The thing with Hill is he is so much worse with Sac then Utah. Is that because he is trying that much less hard? Seems odd since he chose to sign there, not like he was traded there and mad about it. Is it because Utah system and the players around him made him look better then he was? Is it that the toe injury he got is still bothering him? Who knows, but if the Cavs get what he looked like in Utah which was a medium pg, one Utah thought was worse then Rubio and one that no one in the league was willing to really pay when everyone else was getting paid (despite his RAPM stardom), or the Sac one, when he was a bad backup on bad team.
you are speculating about Utah viewing Rubio as an upgrade over Hill. Hill had not signed any where at the time of the Rubio trade and Utah did not have Hill's bird rights. All Utah knew was Hill wanted big money and long term.
Turned out Rubio ended up being $5 million/year cheaper with a contract expiring 1 year earlier. Rubio has a way better contract than the spectre of a long term deal going to Hill who turns 31.
Trading for Rubio saved money and limited risk. That factors in Utah's decision making.
On February 09 2018 10:44 JimmiC wrote:
(despite his RAPM stardom)
i think you mean xRAPM here. Not RAPM. Any how, Hill's ESPN Real PLus-Minus(xRAPM) indicates he is very good but not a "star". According to xRAPM Hill is not a top-5-in-the-NBA point guard.
Hill is probably a top 10 PG but not in the top 5.
If you have NBA League Pass I recommend checking out some of the games Hill played in the 2016 and 2017 playoffs. He was very good.
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Ah, the xRAPM parallel world, where Otto Porter Jr is a top 10 player of all-time and you would hesitate to give 5 minutes of play to Kobe Bryant.
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On February 09 2018 23:53 JimmiC wrote:
Year Hill got signed other PG deals, (meaning if they wanted hill they could have had him)
Twolves - Teague 3 year 57 million, but last year is a player option and is guaranteed if he wants it to me
Lowry, 3 years almost 100 million. Raps (guaranteed)
Holiday 5 years 125 million. Pelicans (guaranteed)
Mills 4 years 50 million Spurs (guaranteed)
Utah tried to sign Hill to 4 years and 88 million and he refused.
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/18789802/george-hill-utah-jazz-discussing-last-minute-contract-extension
On February 09 2018 23:53 JimmiC wrote:
A top 10 point guard would not look invisible as the man on a bad team, and would not lose his starting job to a mediocre rookie in 7 games.
he would if they want to develop the young PG and view Hill as a stop gap and communicate that to Hill he is only their to help with Fox's development.
its debatable whether or not Fox is "mediocre"... what he is is .. controllable.
On February 09 2018 23:53 JimmiC wrote:
Maybe he will turn it around and become a OK starting PG again
he is more of a combo-guard than a PG.
On February 09 2018 23:53 JimmiC wrote:but their is more to player analysis then checking out someones real plus minus on ESPN and I am confident the NBA GM's did this and they showed how little value Hill had.
you are ignoring my other observations in the 2016 and 2017 playoffs. so i am doing more than viewing ESPN Real Plus
Minus.
Also, my view of Hill flies totally against his ESPN Plus Minus this year. According to ESPN PLus Minus this year Hill is terrible. I disagree with that.
Look for Hill to perform as he did in the 2016 and 2017 playoffs. He is worse than Lowry and better than average.
your claim he might be average. i disagree with that.
Like i said try watching his 2016 playoffs or 2017 playoffs. He played above average.
On February 10 2018 00:04 ZenithM wrote:
Ah, the xRAPM parallel world, where Otto Porter Jr is a top 10 player of all-time and you would hesitate to give 5 minutes of play to Kobe Bryant.
xRAPM says Hill is terrible this year. I think in a different situation he can be an above average combo-guard as he has been in the past. I'm hardly parotting xRAPM results.
On February 09 2018 23:53 JimmiC wrote:
Maybe he will turn it around and become a OK starting PG again, we will see, but their is more to player analysis then checking out someones real plus minus on ESPN and I am confident the NBA GM's did this and they showed how little value Hill had.
many NBA GM's screw up all the time in the FA market. I don't know where Hill would've been a good fit.. because he is not a top 5 PG and he is not a pure PG. Being a combo-guard makes him difficult fit. A combo-guard who is an occasional playmaker is a good fit for Cleveland.
CONCLUSION: 1 poster says Hill is above average. Another poster says Hill might be average.
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On February 10 2018 01:02 JimmiC wrote:
I claim he is at best average and was at best ever average and could well end up below average, maybe even well below average. Some players fall off a cliff.
he is a difficult fit as an occasional playing-maker combo-guard.
i say he is above average in the right situation and with LBJ as the primary ball carrier that fits his combo-guard ways.
he is shooting 45% from 3 on 128 attempts and 38% for his career. a perfect guy to sit on the perimeter and wait for a pass from LBJ as he drives through the lane and attracts multiple defenders.
On February 10 2018 01:02 JimmiC wrote:
You don't have to keep writing what xRAPM we have all read it over and over. We just don't think it is the bible like you do. We disagree with what it says and the way you interpret the numbers. Writing them again and again does not change this.
i'm going on my observations of the 2016 and 2017 playoffs as much as stats. you continuing to repeat that i'm only going by xRAPM doesn't make it true. Hill gave Lowry all he could handle in the 2016 playoffs.
On February 10 2018 01:02 JimmiC wrote:
Dude why are you so passive aggressive? You can just say my name its all good.
this from a guy who continually changes his sig talking about me with the claim he won't respond to my posts. ok man.
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VanVleet again led the Raptors in assists last night... tied with everyone's favourite point forward Pascal Sigh-Kam. Derozan and Lowry have not played over 30 minutes in 5 games.
Derozan-Lowry went 4-22 last night. LOL.
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EPT
