EPTCurry -GSW agree to $201M 5-year deal
NBA Offseason 2017 - Page 23
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Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
Curry -GSW agree to $201M 5-year deal | ||
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Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
On July 01 2017 08:33 Jerubaal wrote: These theories of influence notwithstanding, I can't discount the most basic theory of cultural transmission, monkey-see, monkey-do. I'm not even sure that refuting the action is enough. If that feeling is even the air, it's going to influence some people. You can hold the individual to account for his individual actions, but you can't deny the impact over the whole culture. You said an interesting phrase, "morally bankrupt". I don't think Ball is a horrible person, but he's making one mistake and that's indicative of the problem of the culture and this discussion, Ball's (and our) mistake is simply that he's not asking what is good. As I said, he's focused purely on the transaction and this has completely deprived him of a moral compass. I can't think of a better way to take a basically decent person and make them feel comfortable with any action. That's why I detest the phrase "as long as it isn't hurting anyone". I'd beg to differ. It's hurting Ball himself, at any rate. To reiterate, I think in large part what the problem is is that we've lost the ability to simply say "this is good and this is not good". Ball is not the cause of this and he's not the hill you want to die on. If you can't simply say "this is not good" without someone coming up to you and telling you that you have no right to tell them what is good or not good. And I think you're acting like a classic liberal right now, not because you hold this position but because you don't agree with his behavior but feel compelled to defend it. It's like you're trying to rationalize why you've put up with such bullshit for so long. Part of that might be because (I don't know about your case in particular) everyone says that anyone who tries to make a moral judgement is a) wrong because there's no such thing as morality and b) a budding tyrant. To pose a question, what else should I do besides quietly note and propound that this is less good than I would want it to be. Isn't that how you start to push back? One, your position on this matter is typical media-conditioned response to media-created/enabled stimuli. Think of this along the lines of political hypercorrectness and self-victimhood that is prevalent in society today. Media and popular culture produce and enable these things (the aforementioned Kardashian phenomenon, memes, CNN-type 24 hour breaking news,etc.) and, in an act of cynical self-referential feedback loop, encourages us "subjects" to protest or otherwise demonstrated our impassioned response to such stimuli, so that the stimulus is reinforced and thereby propagating the media-audience relationship, "satisfying" our need for content, and the media's need for viewers, and the gravy train of advertising and other profit continues, until we move to the next hot button issue. In short, we are exaggerating, when in fact we need to have a disinterested and critical reflection on this matters. Two, let us conduct an activity to prove this point. Pool together two sets of people, your friend who are into basketball (group A), and friends who are not (group B). Ask both groups if they know who Lavar Ball is? Then ask them what they think of him? Then ask them how he has affected their lives? I am certain that except for the special few who follow the NBA close enough to know about Ball as we both do, the best reaction you'll get is a cold "Ok". My point is, Balls antics is an infinitesimal speck in the grand scheme of things. There is no need to be so worked up about it to the point of hating. Three, you are subscribing to an obsolete framework of communication. The magic bullet theory of "monkey-see-monkey-do" has long been rendered deficient, along with Mcluhan determinism, in making sense of something as complex as social interaction. It may hold some ground in child developmental psychology where the variables are limited ans easily identifiable, but no one has been brave enough to academically summon such frameworks since the late 60s. You might be familiar with studies on television, and more recently video games, and violence among children. More than half a decade of academic work has been on this and there is no direct causative or even correlative relationship between the two. Television and games may be one of the factor, but there is such a rigid structure in place that shapes personal and social knowledge and behavior like parental influence, geography, peers, socio-economic background, and religion that violent television and games are rarely if ever the tipping point in determining violent behavior. People have been violent and nonviolent as well all throughout history, and it is simplistic to reduce the matter to a simple "monkey-see-monkey-do" equation, no matter how apparently self-evident it is. Four, How is Ball hurting himself? By any measure, he is succeeding. Lonzo is playing for the Lakers, he owns his own brand, he has prominent B-level media exposure, and by the looks of it, he is having the time of his life. No matter how Lonzo Ball turns out, as long as he manages an average NBA career. he is either in zero or positive position. The only negative scenario is when Lonzo Ball turns out to be a gun-carrying mass murdering maniac, or something along these lines. Five, and let me use this point by way of summation. Our discussion/disagreement is an attempt to understand the Ball phenomenon. Ball may or may not be a moral person, and from your perspective, his shameless self-promotion and egotism is a wrong/not good, and we should do something about it. I can not however tell from our discussion so far what you propose to do about it. Do we stage organized protests in LA games? Twitter bomb him? To my mind, the correct course of action is to let the whole phenomenon play. I have already expressed how I have changed my mind after learning that all of this is for Ball is a spectacle to promote his agenda, and unless he is doing any damage, say threatening economic sustainability, building divisive walls, putting incompetent people in power, threatening net neutrality, making access to affordable health care difficult for people, let him be. Boycott all BBB products and boo at Lonzo Ball's games, all you want, but never yourself get caught in the charade as the serious fool amidst the clowns. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17187 Posts
On July 01 2017 17:59 Elroi wrote: This is insane. They have to get rid of the east - west system. Or boston for the love of god make some moves. geography and travel time are a real thing. you can't have NYK playing the Lakers as much as they play Boston. The schedule will always be imbalanced. The only sports where a balanced schedule between East and West is even conceivable is NFL and MLB. | ||
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Keyboard Warrior
United States1178 Posts
seriously now, why is everybody going to the west. the east is the ideal conference to be at now because of low quality opponents, and the west is a bad decision because all superstars are there. gilbert is overpaying the team to be destroyed in the finals, and the cavs is as weak as ever. i wont be surprised if philly or bucksie make it to the finals next year | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17187 Posts
The game of musical chairs for free agent point guards continues.... http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19781149/jrue-holiday-re-sign-new-orleans-pelicans-five-year-126-million-contract the music is about to stop while George Hill and Kyle Lowry are still looking for teams. there are 2 players who've attempted 600+ shots in the playoffs with a success rate lower than 40%. Lowry is 1 of them. | ||
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Keyboard Warrior
United States1178 Posts
On July 01 2017 17:59 Elroi wrote: This is insane. They have to get rid of the east - west system. Or boston for the love of god make some moves. i agree. that way lebum cant anymore cruise his way to the finals. he'd get dad dicked by curry first round. and i think nba is rich enough to cover travel expenses. and the schedule can be worked to give teams 3 or so days break between change home teams. do it silver | ||
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Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
On July 01 2017 22:09 Keyboard Warrior wrote: i agree. that way lebum cant anymore cruise his way to the finals. he'd get dad dicked by curry first round. and i think nba is rich enough to cover travel expenses. and the schedule can be worked to give teams 3 or so days break between change home teams. do it silver It will be such a downer for fans who expect daily playoffs game. It will also extend the playoffs to until, maybe, August | ||
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xwoGworwaTsx
United States984 Posts
On July 01 2017 21:07 Twinkle Toes wrote: Ok now... One, your position on this matter is typical media-conditioned response to media-created/enabled stimuli. Think of this along the lines of political hypercorrectness and self-victimhood that is prevalent in society today. Media and popular culture produce and enable these things (the aforementioned Kardashian phenomenon, memes, CNN-type 24 hour breaking news,etc.) and, in an act of cynical self-referential feedback loop, encourages us "subjects" to protest or otherwise demonstrated our impassioned response to such stimuli, so that the stimulus is reinforced and thereby propagating the media-audience relationship, "satisfying" our need for content, and the media's need for viewers, and the gravy train of advertising and other profit continues, until we move to the next hot button issue. In short, we are exaggerating, when in fact we need to have a disinterested and critical reflection on this matters. Two, let us conduct an activity to prove this point. Pool together two sets of people, your friend who are into basketball (group A), and friends who are not (group B). Ask both groups if they know who Lavar Ball is? Then ask them what they think of him? Then ask them how he has affected their lives? I am certain that except for the special few who follow the NBA close enough to know about Ball as we both do, the best reaction you'll get is a cold "Ok". My point is, Balls antics is an infinitesimal speck in the grand scheme of things. There is no need to be so worked up about it to the point of hating. Three, you are subscribing to an obsolete framework of communication. The magic bullet theory of "monkey-see-monkey-do" has long been rendered deficient, along with Mcluhan determinism, in making sense of something as complex as social interaction. It may hold some ground in child developmental psychology where the variables are limited ans easily identifiable, but no one has been brave enough to academically summon such frameworks since the late 60s. You might be familiar with studies on television, and more recently video games, and violence among children. More than half a decade of academic work has been on this and there is no direct causative or even correlative relationship between the two. Television and games may be one of the factor, but there is such a rigid structure in place that shapes personal and social knowledge and behavior like parental influence, geography, peers, socio-economic background, and religion that violent television and games are rarely if ever the tipping point in determining violent behavior. People have been violent and nonviolent as well all throughout history, and it is simplistic to reduce the matter to a simple "monkey-see-monkey-do" equation, no matter how apparently self-evident it is. Four, How is Ball hurting himself? By any measure, he is succeeding. Lonzo is playing for the Lakers, he owns his own brand, he has prominent B-level media exposure, and by the looks of it, he is having the time of his life. No matter how Lonzo Ball turns out, as long as he manages an average NBA career. he is either in zero or positive position. The only negative scenario is when Lonzo Ball turns out to be a gun-carrying mass murdering maniac, or something along these lines. Five, and let me use this point by way of summation. Our discussion/disagreement is an attempt to understand the Ball phenomenon. Ball may or may not be a moral person, and from your perspective, his shameless self-promotion and egotism is a wrong/not good, and we should do something about it. I can not however tell from our discussion so far what you propose to do about it. Do we stage organized protests in LA games? Twitter bomb him? To my mind, the correct course of action is to let the whole phenomenon play. I have already expressed how I have changed my mind after learning that all of this is for Ball is a spectacle to promote his agenda, and unless he is doing any damage, say threatening economic sustainability, building divisive walls, putting incompetent people in power, threatening net neutrality, making access to affordable health care difficult for people, let him be. Boycott all BBB products and boo at Lonzo Ball's games, all you want, but never yourself get caught in the charade as the serious fool amidst the clowns. Im 50/50 on this one. I hate that idiot's face and gimmick. At the same time, i also see your point. And wasnt there a tweet by Magic being impressed by Lavar being just a proud and supportive father when the cameras are away | ||
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Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
On July 01 2017 22:39 xwoGworwaTsx wrote: And wasnt there a tweet by Magic being impressed by Lavar being just a proud and supportive father when the cameras are away Exactly my point | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17187 Posts
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Keyboard Warrior
United States1178 Posts
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zdarr
France375 Posts
On July 01 2017 22:45 JimmyJRaynor wrote: for all those writing off the entire Eastern Conference.. do not count out the Miami Heat. They got out from under the Bosh contract so they have cap space. Riley knows what he is doing.. they finished the year 30-11 and while Dion Waiters was healthy they were fucking awesome. they couldn't even qualify over one of the worst bulls team in history. I really really really doubt they'll be championship's contender next year. Unless they add lebron of course... | ||
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Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
On July 01 2017 23:02 Keyboard Warrior wrote: Actually, after much deep thinking about it, I think the east aint that bad. milwaukee is a head-strong team with a Durant 2.0 player. Philly has completed theProcess and are now legit contenders. toronto is still a monster. boston is strong with a lot of assets. And let us not forget the heat. everyone is counting them out, but they finished strong last season. pat riley is mafia-level genius, and knows the game pretty well. bosh being out now, riley can make bold maneuvers to improve the team. and with everyone healthy, the heat is surely on. Epic lol. You're a funny guy. | ||
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17187 Posts
http://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/nba/kyle-lowry-raptors-will-soon-learn-things-going-change/ "The only real consensus among the league insiders is that Lowry won’t be getting a max deal out in the market, and his ceiling will top out at $30 million annually, although that would most likely be on a shorter deal." On July 01 2017 23:02 Keyboard Warrior wrote: toronto is still a monster. true, they're looking to repeat for the D-League championship. oh right, that was mississauga... not toronto. mississauga is a monster. On July 01 2017 23:03 zdarr wrote: they couldn't even qualify over one of the worst bulls team in history. I really really really doubt they'll be championship's contender next year. Unless they add lebron of course... if they bring back everyone from last year and everyone stays healthy i think they can improve on last year's 2nd half. that is a lot of IFs though. let's see what happens during the off-season. i just wanna see James Johnson running the offense again  | ||
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Nemireck
Canada1875 Posts
On July 01 2017 23:46 JimmyJRaynor wrote: even one of the most connected raptors analysts can not get much of a handle on the deal Lowry is getting. http://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/nba/kyle-lowry-raptors-will-soon-learn-things-going-change/ "The only real consensus among the league insiders is that Lowry won’t be getting a max deal out in the market, and his ceiling will top out at $30 million annually, although that would most likely be on a shorter deal." I wanted to believe Toronto had a shot this past year, I want to believe they have a better shot this COMING year. Alas, alack... 1on1 ISO Chuck-up-ball and 1980's defensive schemes (OMG People actually shoot 3s?!) can only carry a team so far  | ||
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Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
On July 01 2017 23:32 Disregard wrote: This off-season FA & trades is fantastic, a surprise on every corner. What offseason move would surprise us the most? | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17187 Posts
On July 02 2017 00:05 Nemireck wrote: I wanted to believe Toronto had a shot this past year, I want to believe they have a better shot this COMING year. Alas, alack... 1on1 ISO Chuck-up-ball and 1980's defensive schemes (OMG People actually shoot 3s?!) can only carry a team so far just to add some data to the point you are making Poeltl and Nogueira were the 2 least used players on offense. TOs guard-centric ball rarely includes the center position. considering what JV can do ... he is underused. At least, Lowry trusts him a little bit. Poeltl with 14.8 touches per 36 minutes and Nogueira with 16.7 touches. It is interesting that Tristan Thompson is in that list as well. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-nba-haters-ball/ Toronto has zero chance. Lowry's string of injuries isn't going to stop as he ages .. its going to get worse. Lowry's weight problems will only be increased as he ages. Derozan's defense in the playoffs is god awful. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
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