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are Lowry's new colour coordinated tensor bands supposed to make us forget about the black tensor band he wore for 3 weeks before the injury "happened" in the Charlotte game just before the all star break? 
whiteside has 3 fouls in just 8 minutes. Miami is pretty fucked without him.
On April 08 2017 07:04 Nemireck wrote:
I have more respect for the players that can get the job done on both ends of the floor. So if it were up to me I'd give it to Kawhi or Lebron over either Harden or Westbrook. I'd even consider Jimmy Butler but I know a potential 7th or 8th seed for his team won't do it.
ya i agree.
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the DRPM(consumer name)//xRAPM stat adjusts for current score. if you have a 10+ point lead giving up baskets is given less weight. that lowers to 7 points when there is less than 2 minutes left.
On April 08 2017 09:23 JimmiC wrote:
Joseph looking great tonight. Raps might knock the second best team out of the playoffs. Would that make raps #2? (eastern conference)
Miami is a threat only if Waiters is healthy.
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On April 08 2017 09:05 Jerubaal wrote:
I generally agree with you, but is there a point where defense doesn't matter anymore? Is there a soft floor for defense where it doesn't matter that much if you're a bad defender or a truly awful defender?
Absolutely, if you're putting up 30 a night with a bunch of boards and assists, then being a "passable" defender is probably fine in principle. But when we're talking about 4 or 5 players that all have fantastic offensive stats to begin with, that's where I start to look at the other half of the game and see if anyone stands out on the defensive end of the court.
Harden and Westbrook are fairly even in many stas. Harden wins in Win Shares, Offensive Win Shares and Win Shares Per 48. Westbrook wins Plus-Minus, OPlus-minus and VORP. Something is strange when we look at the other categories like Def Rating, Defensive Win Shares and Def Plus-Minus, namely that Westbrook is actually on these lists. So if we think that Harden and Westbrook are roughly equal, or even justifiably say that Harden is having a marginally better season, shouldn't Westbrook's defensive prowess tip it in his favor?
In my mind, yes. If if HAS to be between those 2, I'm giving it to Westbrook. But I think it should be Lebron or Kawhi.
The only way we don't say that is if we tacitly discount defense, almost entirely, or if we think that offense is just inherently more important in basketball and the difference between an average and a borderline elite defender is insignificant compare to the advantage a marginally more elite offensive player adds.
I don't think defense is as important as offense in basketball, but when you're comparing big offensive numbers to begin with, I start looking at defense as well to see who's MOST helping their team to win.
In raw, emotionless statistical comparisons (and assuming he's trying and not coasting through the season), the MVP should probably go to Lebron almost every year he's been in the league.
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Korver is moving like shit again tonight. I don't think he'll be fully healed until next year. Once you get painful tendonitis for a month in the middle of the year.. you're pretty much fucked with the NBA's arduous schedule.
up by 1 in the 4th quarter and who does Casey put out there : patrick patterson
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I forget what year it was, but a few years ago the Knicks were ok, not great, but ok. They had decent defense and decent offense, but the problem was they had no 2-way players.
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Isn't that part of the problem with OKC as well during the Westbrook and Durant years? As I recall, their supporting cast was mostly comprised of very athletic one-dimensional guys. You had the rebounder, the shot blocker, the 3-pt shooter, the defender and the hustler. Ibaka got overpaid because he was the rare supporting member with 2 elite skills (shot blocking and jumpshooting).
And count me among those people who like team success to be a huge part of the MVP vote. Jimmy Butler is a very good iso player who can drag a shitty team to an 7th/8th seed. However, his skill set might not translate that well if you put him on the Cavs/Warriors/Spurs. Some players need the ball in their hands to be great. In my mind, turning good to great is much harder than turning bad to good.
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when this original disagreement occurred Waiters was healthy and Miami mangled Toronto. Further, i stated if Lowry comes back his addition is not enough to overcome Miami ( who were healthy at the time). Based on today's game I'd say Miami is better with all their starters healthy.
Atlanta went on a 29-9 with who on the floor? Man, Cleveland looked extremely slow tonight. Irving was complaining about his knee "flaring up". Korver and Jefferson do not look healthy.
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On April 08 2017 12:28 andrewlt wrote:
Isn't that part of the problem with OKC as well during the Westbrook and Durant years? As I recall, their supporting cast was mostly comprised of very athletic one-dimensional guys. You had the rebounder, the shot blocker, the 3-pt shooter, the defender and the hustler. Ibaka got overpaid because he was the rare supporting member with 2 elite skills (shot blocking and jumpshooting).
And count me among those people who like team success to be a huge part of the MVP vote. Jimmy Butler is a very good iso player who can drag a shitty team to an 7th/8th seed. However, his skill set might not translate that well if you put him on the Cavs/Warriors/Spurs. Some players need the ball in their hands to be great. In my mind, turning good to great is much harder than turning bad to good.
Actually, Butler is one of those guys you can, IMO, plug into just about every team and get really good results. Golden State is probably the only exception because Klay's superior shooting and him being close in a lot of other skills. IMO Jimmy is a guy poised to be someone's Scottie Pippen, but the modern CBA means death for guys like him, Davis, Paul George, etc.
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This could be a Watt-Rogers scenario where one wins the MVP, but it's the other's season we'll remember and talk about.
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On April 08 2017 13:13 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2017 12:28 andrewlt wrote:
Isn't that part of the problem with OKC as well during the Westbrook and Durant years? As I recall, their supporting cast was mostly comprised of very athletic one-dimensional guys. You had the rebounder, the shot blocker, the 3-pt shooter, the defender and the hustler. Ibaka got overpaid because he was the rare supporting member with 2 elite skills (shot blocking and jumpshooting).
And count me among those people who like team success to be a huge part of the MVP vote. Jimmy Butler is a very good iso player who can drag a shitty team to an 7th/8th seed. However, his skill set might not translate that well if you put him on the Cavs/Warriors/Spurs. Some players need the ball in their hands to be great. In my mind, turning good to great is much harder than turning bad to good. Actually, Butler is one of those guys you can, IMO, plug into just about every team and get really good results. Golden State is probably the only exception because Klay's superior shooting and him being close in a lot of other skills. IMO Jimmy is a guy poised to be someone's Scottie Pippen, but the modern CBA means death for guys like him, Davis, Paul George, etc.
I could be wrong but my impression is that Paul George is a much better catch and shoot guy and off the ball player than Jimmy Butler. On defense, Butler could work on any team. On offense, I think his effectiveness will drop.
On the Spurs and Warriors system, nobody has the ball in their hands all the time and everybody has to be effective without the ball. On the Cavs system, everybody not named Lebron James needs to be effective without the ball. That's why I prize Harden's offensive skills more than Westbrook's.
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On April 09 2017 02:06 andrewlt wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2017 13:13 cLutZ wrote:On April 08 2017 12:28 andrewlt wrote:
Isn't that part of the problem with OKC as well during the Westbrook and Durant years? As I recall, their supporting cast was mostly comprised of very athletic one-dimensional guys. You had the rebounder, the shot blocker, the 3-pt shooter, the defender and the hustler. Ibaka got overpaid because he was the rare supporting member with 2 elite skills (shot blocking and jumpshooting).
And count me among those people who like team success to be a huge part of the MVP vote. Jimmy Butler is a very good iso player who can drag a shitty team to an 7th/8th seed. However, his skill set might not translate that well if you put him on the Cavs/Warriors/Spurs. Some players need the ball in their hands to be great. In my mind, turning good to great is much harder than turning bad to good. Actually, Butler is one of those guys you can, IMO, plug into just about every team and get really good results. Golden State is probably the only exception because Klay's superior shooting and him being close in a lot of other skills. IMO Jimmy is a guy poised to be someone's Scottie Pippen, but the modern CBA means death for guys like him, Davis, Paul George, etc. I could be wrong but my impression is that Paul George is a much better catch and shoot guy and off the ball player than Jimmy Butler. On defense, Butler could work on any team. On offense, I think his effectiveness will drop. On the Spurs and Warriors system, nobody has the ball in their hands all the time and everybody has to be effective without the ball. On the Cavs system, everybody not named Lebron James needs to be effective without the ball. That's why I prize Harden's offensive skills more than Westbrook's.
Why exactly?
I'm not sure I like this comparison very much, but I think if you switched Harden and Westbrook, the Thunder would be doing significantly worse. The Rockets might do a little worse.
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On April 09 2017 02:06 andrewlt wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2017 13:13 cLutZ wrote:On April 08 2017 12:28 andrewlt wrote:
Isn't that part of the problem with OKC as well during the Westbrook and Durant years? As I recall, their supporting cast was mostly comprised of very athletic one-dimensional guys. You had the rebounder, the shot blocker, the 3-pt shooter, the defender and the hustler. Ibaka got overpaid because he was the rare supporting member with 2 elite skills (shot blocking and jumpshooting).
And count me among those people who like team success to be a huge part of the MVP vote. Jimmy Butler is a very good iso player who can drag a shitty team to an 7th/8th seed. However, his skill set might not translate that well if you put him on the Cavs/Warriors/Spurs. Some players need the ball in their hands to be great. In my mind, turning good to great is much harder than turning bad to good. Actually, Butler is one of those guys you can, IMO, plug into just about every team and get really good results. Golden State is probably the only exception because Klay's superior shooting and him being close in a lot of other skills. IMO Jimmy is a guy poised to be someone's Scottie Pippen, but the modern CBA means death for guys like him, Davis, Paul George, etc. I could be wrong but my impression is that Paul George is a much better catch and shoot guy and off the ball player than Jimmy Butler. On defense, Butler could work on any team. On offense, I think his effectiveness will drop. On the Spurs and Warriors system, nobody has the ball in their hands all the time and everybody has to be effective without the ball. On the Cavs system, everybody not named Lebron James needs to be effective without the ball. That's why I prize Harden's offensive skills more than Westbrook's.
I think Jimmy is better with the ball than PG and PG better off the ball, yes, but both of them have skill levels that are high enough (particularly defensively, and they are both good enough from 3) that they are plug and play even on a team with another ball-dominant player. People may not remember this, but Scottie Pippen was an excellent ball-handler and on-ball scorer in his own right (in many ways just a better Jimmy Butler) but he was devastating as a #2 because most teams don't have a second, elite, 2-way player.
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Lillard red hot with new career high 59 <3
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Cleveland//Atlanta going to sudden overdeath time
10 years ago if your team had championship aspirations and your defense couldn't handle Jose Calderon then you got some serious problems. this year if your defense is having problems with Jose Calderon....
On April 09 2017 06:10 JimmiC wrote:
You don't trade futures and signed players for 2 unrestricted free agents for any reason other then doing better right now.
yep, and their probability winning a championship is the same # it was before the trades: 0
they're just buying some extra playoff gates and selling more subscriptions to SportsNet NOW.
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According to your logic, every rational owner in the league is just waiting out the Warriors. Getting to the Finals is clearly possible for the Raptors, and the management is clearly aiming for that goal. Are they likely going to win the Championship? No, but all any contender can do is try to give their team the best chance they can.
So they are trying to go as deep as possible in the playoffs, but they aren't "going for it".
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EPT
