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jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
On June 17 2015 14:23 ticklishmusic wrote: How the heck did Iggy get Finals MVP? Sure he defended Lebron and his team won, but the man still had one of the greatest finals performances ever. glad lebron didnt get it, mvp to the loser is just salt on the wound. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
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Aerisky
United States12129 Posts
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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DystopiaX
United States16236 Posts
On June 17 2015 15:06 Aerisky wrote: I don't blame him that much since it felt like the offensive output from the rest of the team more or less wasn't there, so he had to be a volume shooter despite (as he said himself) being uncomfortable doing so. He still had quiet a few assists averaged per game anyway but yea it wasn't quite there. He didn't have any great players to bail him out, hit clutch 3s without missing the first n open looks, or convert on what stops they could get. He definitely wasn't himself though, so to speak. the % of points due to a Lebron make/assist/pass to foul are ridiculous though, like yeah his FG% matters but then you consider his team and how maybe no other basketball player in history could have done better in his position and his poor FG% matters a lot less in that respect, like Lebron had maybe one of the worst supporting casts to make the finals of all time and he still made it seem close up until the end. edit- hack an iggy makes a lot more sense than hacking others did (assuming that his FT% would remain hella low) considering the 2 biggest downsides to hack a are the fact that you're always going to be in a set offense and the dangers of an offensive rebound (Clips rebounded some ridiculous number of DJ misses, 20% or 40% or something like that). The Cavs offensive gameplan was for Lebron iso/drain clock anyway so the lack of fast break/semi transition opportunities matters less. also not trying to take away from the Warriors or anything but literally every team's starting PG he faced in the playoffs was injured for either part or all of the series. Like that's some voodoo shit wtf | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
On June 17 2015 15:28 zulu_nation8 wrote: they really should've, especially near the end of this game They did, but only in desperation near the end of the game. Not early in the game like the other coaches did to Howard, Jordan et al. Iggy was pretty bad from the line for the entire playoffs. | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On June 17 2015 14:55 cLutZ wrote: While I loved Lebron's finals, none of the things that traditionally make Lebron Lebronish were present, besides his overwhelming physical attributes. Curry did a lot of things this series that people ignore, like consistently beating doubles (the major difference in G2,3 was his teammates failing to defeat 4v3s). Lebron this series was not Lebron. He was a big 2010 Carmello. melo has better shooting than that | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
Well, he did have kind of the same supporting cast after all. | ||
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DystopiaX
United States16236 Posts
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whatisthisasheep
624 Posts
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Jerubaal
United States7684 Posts
On June 17 2015 12:32 cLutZ wrote: It's quite simple with regards to finals appearances. Jordan was in the stronger conference most of his years, Lebron had been in the worse conference every year of his career. When comparing, Lebron is essentially 2-1 in finals he would have made from the west. Some people give Lebron props for making the finals, others hold the losses against him. Or you could pretend Jordan was in the west and went 0-2 against Detroit in those finals, then he would be 6-2. It's just the shitty modern east that confuses people. I'm not sure I really care about conference finals/finals/rings. I understand you're trying to account for level of competition, but the level of your teammates is important too. | ||
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Rebs
Pakistan10726 Posts
On June 18 2015 06:31 Jerubaal wrote: Blatt wasn't great, but he wasn't Vinny Del Negro either. I'm not sure I really care about conference finals/finals/rings. I understand you're trying to account for level of competition, but the level of your teammates is important too. He has a point though. The way the East is (unless by some miracle Durant finds himself in his hometown) Lebron should have a comfortable ride to the finals every year. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On June 18 2015 06:31 Jerubaal wrote: Blatt wasn't great, but he wasn't Vinny Del Negro either. I'm not sure I really care about conference finals/finals/rings. I understand you're trying to account for level of competition, but the level of your teammates is important too. On June 18 2015 06:39 Rebs wrote: He has a point though. The way the East is (unless by some miracle Durant finds himself in his hometown) Lebron should have a comfortable ride to the finals every year. What I was lookiing to convey is that there are certain people who give Lebron way too much props for making 5 straight finals and consider every appearance a positive (Greenberg is a big example). Those people should just pretend that Cleveland and Miami were swapped with Minnesota and Dallas. That makes his record 2-1, 2-2 in the finals, and give those people persepctive. There are others who say "herp derp" 4 losses vs. 6-0, and just realize that Jordan probably would have 1-2 finals losses except for being in the same conference as Detroit, and Lebron souldn't be blamed for the shitty East. | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
On June 17 2015 12:21 Jerubaal wrote: I really am not sure how we can compare Lebron to Jordan. I think it's not unreasonable to say that Lebron has had larger impacts on his teams, but Jordan also played with really, really good teams. Jordan also played in an era where it was possible for a perimeter player to be unstoppable offensively like that. Hmm, some say it's the opposite though, right? That Jordan would score even more in today's NBA. I know your main point still stands, it's quite clear that Jordan and Lebron are 2 different cases, as far as their player profile and the teams they played with. Personally, without having any specific data to back me up, I always felt that Lebron is the more valuable player for a weak team, but MJ was a way more dangerous offensive weapon for a strong team, the kind that just wins championship if well supported. A solid team can be made of Lebron + random guys, probably not MJ + random guys. A crushingly winning team can be made of MJ + solid support cast, whereas Lebron loses value as you stack his team with good players. That's just a sentiment though, I'm talking out of my ass :D | ||
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Rebs
Pakistan10726 Posts
On June 18 2015 09:01 ZenithM wrote: Hmm, some say it's the opposite though, right? That Jordan would score even more in today's NBA. I know your main point still stands, it's quite clear that Jordan and Lebron are 2 different cases, as far as their player profile and the teams they played with. Personally, without having any specific data to back me up, I always felt that Lebron is the more valuable player for a weak team, but MJ was a way more dangerous offensive weapon for a strong team, the kind that just wins championship if well supported. A solid team can be made of Lebron + random guys, probably not MJ + random guys. A crushingly winning team can be made of MJ + solid support cast, whereas Lebron loses value as you stack his team with good players. That's just a sentiment though, I'm talking out of my ass :D I get what you mean, I think its because of the kind of game he has. But to be perfectly honest. I dont think that would be true because any attributes need to crush with a strong supporting cast Lebron has. and displays often enough imo. | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
On June 18 2015 09:04 Rebs wrote: I get what you mean, I think its because of the kind of game he has. But to be perfectly honest. I dont think that would be true because any attributes need to crush with a strong supporting cast Lebron has. and displays often enough imo. Yeah, I can see that as well. Lebron is just too good to dismiss like that. But damn was he unlucky this year. With one of Irving and Love (let alone both), this would have looked very different. Not necessarily a Cavs win (imo they would have won with their full big 3), but way less pressure on offense for Lebron. | ||
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DystopiaX
United States16236 Posts
On June 18 2015 04:17 whatisthisasheep wrote: Blatt needs to be gone from the cavs immediately. He didnt do anything all season. made the finals with 2 of their best 3 players gone, went to a defense-first old school ISO heavy offense to carry them there? sure did nothing ok | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
anyway for full roster cav vs warriors, i'd still take warriors 4-2. the cavs full roster is still flawed defensively but they'll be able to match the warriors' pace and give lebron more rest. | ||
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