EPTNBA Offseason 2014 - Page 77
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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Xeris
Iran17695 Posts
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AgentW
United States7725 Posts
On August 06 2014 10:17 Ace wrote: Unless you're getting a Magic/MJ/Duncan/Wade/CP3 level rookie out of college then you do the trade. The weird thing about Wiggins supporters is them arguing about defense as if Wiggins is going to be an Iguodala level guy straight out. Extremely rare chance of that happening. Maybe I'm the only one who gets this vibe, but does Wiggins remind anyone of Harrison Barnes? Their numbers were nearly exactly the same in their single seasons and they had similar amounts of hype coming out of of HS (the next LeBron). I know Barnes wasn't picked first, but I get that kind of vibe from him. What's a Barnes worth? Certainly less than Love. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
SIDE NOTE: Not trading Klay Thompson for Love should really be looked at as the Bowie/Jordan moment of the era. Curry/Klay/Iggy/Bogut with Ezeli and Green could approach 60 wins. Oh well! | ||
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AgentW
United States7725 Posts
EDIT: Just listened to Simmons's podcast with Windhorst. Windhorst asked Simmons who the most powerful man in the NBA was and Simmons replied with Silver. Windhorst asked who is second and Simmons said LeBron. Windhorst only replied with something like "he says it's done" with regards to the Love deal. | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
On August 06 2014 10:51 AgentW wrote: Maybe I'm the only one who gets this vibe, but does Wiggins remind anyone of Harrison Barnes? Their numbers were nearly exactly the same in their single seasons and they had similar amounts of hype coming out of of HS (the next LeBron). I know Barnes wasn't picked first, but I get that kind of vibe from him. What's a Barnes worth? Certainly less than Love. Wiggins at Kansas was so much better than Barnes was at UNC. That's a fact. He had his issues: ball handling, drifting and weirdly bad finishing, but Wiggins was really quite stud in college - not a disappointment like Harrison Barnes. And you would still trade that for Kevin Freaking Love every single day of the year. Would you have traded.....Deron Williams as the 3rd overall pick (awesome at Illinois but similarly limited by Bill Freaking Self) for... something like Dirk Nowitzki in 2006? | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
On August 06 2014 12:20 Ace wrote: 05 Dirk was a monster so yes. I know, I think this situation is very similar. Dirk's always been a monster but in '05 and '06 he was majorly disparaged, similar to Kevin Love, I think. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
On August 06 2014 12:58 cLutZ wrote: K love is not majorly disparaged. The only critique of him is that he has a very low chance of exceeding the value over contract price compared to a rookie being played 5 million a year. It's not even his fault, assuming Wiggins is 2012 Luol Deng, on average, Love would have to be 2013 Kevin Love+20%. This isn't true for two reasons, well three but I'll let the 2012 Luol Deng point slide, you'll almost never see a rookie perform that well in his first year. But let's magically assume Andrew Wiggins is a rookie All-Star caliber player somehow: 1. It treats every win produced equally. Clearly the value of win is worth much more to the Cavaliers than almost every other team simply because they're more heavily leveraged and invested in winning, just by adding Lebron James, they've moved high up on the win curve. Kevin Love is one of the most productive players in the league, far outstripping 10 million dollars. Unless you expect 1985 Larry Bird, I doubt you'll see Kevin Love+20% of production. 2. Skewed market value. Trying to compare a $5 million rookie contract to a $15 million contract is fine in a vacuum, but not in this case. At this point, what is the $10 million in space going to get you? Not Eric Bledsoe, not Greg Monroe. What else is on the market? And frankly, what could be on the market that the $10 million dollars can be worth more than Kevin Love? He plays 38 minutes a game and probably will put 28% usage. I don't think you're gonna get three $3.5 million dollar guys and be like "PRODUCTION REPLACED!" | ||
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icystorage
Jollibee19350 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/7rLZAkn.jpg) good guy brandon bass learning how to swim and inspire other children | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
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DystopiaX
United States16236 Posts
Also I don't think Bledsoe or monroe are going to Cleveland but their prices have to be coming down at this point, right? What with no one really biting and all | ||
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RowdierBob
Australia13537 Posts
On August 06 2014 10:17 Ace wrote: Unless you're getting a Magic/MJ/Duncan/Wade/CP3 level rookie out of college then you do the trade. The weird thing about Wiggins supporters is them arguing about defense as if Wiggins is going to be an Iguodala level guy straight out. Extremely rare chance of that happening. But where would you rate embiid? I have him way above Wiggins but the oden issue is there. Assuming he was fit do you trade him for love (if the cavs took him first)? | ||
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
On August 06 2014 14:09 cLutZ wrote: It really depends on roster construction. LBJ plus Klove vs LBJ plus Wiggins is not an argument. But the cavs already have wasted/spent(depending on your sanity) money on kyrie Irving which makes preserving cap flexibility even more important. What's the point of cap flexibility if not to get the best player in the league and a top-5 player in the league under contract? I mean, who are you waiting for exactly? Love expires in two years anyways. So I guess you feasibly still have a chance at...Kevin Durant? I don't know. This infatuation with of cap flexibility is weird, there are no "flexible" title contenders because super duper stars cost buku bucks. EDIT: Actually, I think the Spurs have a ridiculously clean sheet next year, I'll have to check. It doesn't really matter for 2014, I think they're right over the cap a bit. | ||
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AgentW
United States7725 Posts
Well, there it is. | ||
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Xeris
Iran17695 Posts
On August 06 2014 14:14 DystopiaX wrote: I don't disagree with point #2 but 10 million for the Cavs (with lebron) is worth more than say 10 million for the kings, because good free agents have indicated that they'd be willing to take discounts to play with LBJ, like Ray Allen did in Miami. I don't think 10 million even with discounts is better than Love necessarily but it is something to consider.] Also I don't think Bledsoe or monroe are going to Cleveland but their prices have to be coming down at this point, right? What with no one really biting and all They're restricted free agents so their price going down does nothing. The reason they're unsigned now is exactly because if a team offers them a smaller contract than they're worth, their respective teams will just match the deal and they morph into SICK VALUE players. This is why they're currently at an impasse, well, Bledsoe specifically. He doesn't want the deal Phoenix is offering, and nobody is offering the deal he wants, so he's stuck. | ||
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Xeris
Iran17695 Posts
On August 06 2014 14:09 cLutZ wrote: It really depends on roster construction. LBJ plus Klove vs LBJ plus Wiggins is not an argument. But the cavs already have wasted/spent(depending on your sanity) money on kyrie Irving which makes preserving cap flexibility even more important. If you're the Cavs, you don't need financial flexibility. The whole point of having financial flexibility is to put yourself in a position to land 2-3 star players. The Cavs already have done that. They no longer need the flexibility - they have Kyrie, Love, and LeBron all in their primes/approaching their primes. They will have this core together for 4-5 years, at the height of their powers. They'll own the bird rights for all their stars so retaining them won't be a problem, and if the team is winning championships, going over the luxury tax is a drop in the bucket. Cleveland morphed into a powerhouse and potential dynasty, depending on your take on Kyrie Irving's potential. With LeBron, Love, and Irving as starters, Dion Waiters as a Jamal Crawford/sparkplug off the bench, all the Cavs need is a stable big man and then to fill the gaps with solid veteran role players. The 2012-2013 Heat through showed that you don't NEED a top big-man to win championships, so they're fine. I think at most, the Cavs need 1 year to play together before they're instantly title favorites every single year. The Kevin Love trade is awesome. Wiggins won't be a star in my opinion and Bennett, at most, is a solid role player. Also agree with Ace, I'm unsure if the Gasol acquisition makes Chicago all that much more deadly in the East. We don't know for sure because of all his injuries/playing in the retarded D'Antoni system, but its safer to say that he won't be a monster any longer. If he is though, the Bulls will definitely be scary. | ||
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