EPTNBA Offseason 2014 - Page 107
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Daozzt
United States1263 Posts
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krndandaman
Mozambique16569 Posts
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Scarecrow
Korea (South)9172 Posts
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krndandaman
Mozambique16569 Posts
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
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Xeris
Iran17695 Posts
To me it makes perfect sense, they don't have 3 point shooters, why would they shoot 3's. Nick Young and Kobe are probably the best shooters they have, their whole roster consists of people who play inside mid-range - Lin is one of the best attacking guards, Kobe has one of the best midrange games ever, Nash is primarily a pick/roll player and someone who uses the paint to create offense... West Johnson/Henry are more slashers, etc.. their entire roster is designed to be 15 feet from the basket or closer, so why shoot 3's? Obviously they're hitting an extreme right now but I'd imagine that is done on purpose to get them to play into the style that Byron Scott wants. Whether it'll be good or bad, who knows. I do think though that what he's trying to do is create a style that attempts to play to the strengths of his players. It isn't what the norm is in the NBA, but the Lakers aren't a good team anyway, maybe the idea is to get them to play what style best suits them and they may be a better team by maximizing their comfort zones than trying to pigeonhole themselves into the predominant trends even though they aren't equipped to do so. Their defense has been utterly atrocious, as a side note. It's almost funny. | ||
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zev318
Canada4306 Posts
On October 17 2014 03:31 XaI)CyRiC wrote: I was pretty impressed by the Blake article, even though it's likely that someone probably helped him. It was great insight into the situation that the players were thrust into, and how it really was BS for the media, public, talking heads, etc. to question or criticize the Clippers players for not doing the right thing or enough in reaction to the Sterling scandal. They were employees who loved their jobs/careers and were getting compensated very well, and it really wasn't their place to be deciding whether Sterling should have been an owner of the Clippers or not. That issue was, and always has been, within the purview of the league and its commissioner, and David Stern did not get enough heat for letting things go for as long as he did. Then again, it's not like Sterling is the only sports team owner with a questionable past or present. the problem i had with the article was that i got the impression that blake griffin and the rest of the clippers players somehow was disgusted by donald sterling and the way he treated people, yet they kept signing extensions there. i understand they wanted financial security but to me, they saw the money and any personal beliefs they had went out the door. the article actually makes me have less respect for griffin. i know basketball players or sports stars in general dont really care if they're role models or whatever, but if they actually cared, they would have not signed with the clippers. its always great that we get these types of articles AFTER the fact. and im not saying they should decide whether sterling was an owner or not, thats a failure on the NBA as a whole because its not like no one ever knew what kind of person sterling was. but them as players certainly could have chosen to take a stand and say hey im not playing for this asshole owner. | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
I need that move in my arsenal. | ||
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RowdierBob
Australia12795 Posts
On October 17 2014 15:31 slyboogie wrote: I just don't like the pick. His scouting report is just as you say, Elite First Step Guy and nice size. But he's also super young and I don't see him being a positive contributor until his second contract. I think that's all fine, a lot of guys have that kind of career, but the Jazz have been bad for a long time now. And the Burks, Favors, Kanter team is not good. Favors is not good. Kanter is not good. It's an example of a team tanking, thinking it could rebuild on picks, but now? Those picks are coming up on extensions. So. Exum is kind of spinning the wheels. What the realistic alternative? Smart? Randle? His upside is massive. Smart and Randle will have solid NBA careers but they're not franchise changing guys. If Exum pans out he will be. He's exactly the type of guy a franchise like Utah needs to swing for. Randle/Smart/whoever weren't going to make them relevant. | ||
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BlackJack
United States10089 Posts
On October 18 2014 21:22 ZenithM wrote: What Kobe's doing is actually fucking impressive. He essentially has no penetration game whatsoever anymore, and he doesn't shoot 3's either. Basically all he's doing is that fucking turn-around fadeaway and he's still super threatening. His footwork helps too. I need that move in my arsenal. That's pretty much all Jordan did at that age too | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
On October 18 2014 22:17 BlackJack wrote: That's pretty much all Jordan did at that age too Indeed. It's pretty much Jordan's move anyway. No less impressive ;D | ||
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rabidch
United States20288 Posts
On October 18 2014 22:06 RowdierBob wrote: What the realistic alternative? Smart? Randle? His upside is massive. Smart and Randle will have solid NBA careers but they're not franchise changing guys. If Exum pans out he will be. He's exactly the type of guy a franchise like Utah needs to swing for. Randle/Smart/whoever weren't going to make them relevant. i think the long gamble was indeed the right choice for the jazz. when he does play well, he looks pretty good for being a rookie. still super raw, but really what would be better options for utah? | ||
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zev318
Canada4306 Posts
On October 18 2014 22:17 BlackJack wrote: That's pretty much all Jordan did at that age too all jordan did at 35 was Regular season plus playoffs: 103 games, 3,037 points, 29.5 ppg, 5.7 rpg, 3.5 apg, and 1.7 spg. i dont know if kobe will be avg 30 ppg. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16009 Posts
On October 17 2014 12:37 RowdierBob wrote: Going to be a brutal year for Lakers. Unless Kobe gets severely injured again, this year just cannot possibly be worse than last year. Last year was absolutely dreadful. | ||
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
On October 18 2014 22:06 RowdierBob wrote: What the realistic alternative? Smart? Randle? His upside is massive. Smart and Randle will have solid NBA careers but they're not franchise changing guys. If Exum pans out he will be. He's exactly the type of guy a franchise like Utah needs to swing for. Randle/Smart/whoever weren't going to make them relevant. I don't know that there was a better alternative. Just chock it up to bad lottery luck, I guess. But that's the risk they took and now, do they look like a team that will be competitive in the next 5 years? Is Dante Exum going to bring them to the playoffs in 2018? Probably not. But you have to admit the last 3 years have been a failure, picking Exum is not some sort of continuation of a strategy. Utah has failed to develop its guys. Now they have the task of developing the rawest lottery pick of the draft. They can do it, and Exum probably has the tools but do they have a young player that's even as good as Paul Millsap? No way. | ||
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Scarecrow
Korea (South)9172 Posts
On October 19 2014 03:24 Vindicare605 wrote: Unless Kobe gets severely injured again, this year just cannot possibly be worse than last year. Last year was absolutely dreadful. At least last year you got a decent pick. This time you're gonna end up outside the playoffs with a first rounder going to the suns and Kobe worn down from carrying a terribad team. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On October 19 2014 15:25 slyboogie wrote: I don't know that there was a better alternative. Just chock it up to bad lottery luck, I guess. But that's the risk they took and now, do they look like a team that will be competitive in the next 5 years? Is Dante Exum going to bring them to the playoffs in 2018? Probably not. But you have to admit the last 3 years have been a failure, picking Exum is not some sort of continuation of a strategy. Utah has failed to develop its guys. Now they have the task of developing the rawest lottery pick of the draft. They can do it, and Exum probably has the tools but do they have a young player that's even as good as Paul Millsap? No way. Tyrone Corbin as coach will do that for you. On October 17 2014 03:31 XaI)CyRiC wrote: Thanks for these links Ace. All of them were interesting reads. Random thoughts: Regarding the Nash articles, it's hard to argue against his point that Nash was overrated by virtue of his circumstances (i.e. coach, style of play, team makeup, MARION) and that he probably didn't deserve those MVP awards. I'm a fan of Nash, but I certainly never saw him as good or impactful as Kobe, Shaq, Duncan, or KG during his prime. I saw him as an elite offensive specialist, albeit a brilliant and extremely likeable one, and certainly a tier below two-way stars like those I just named. The idea of two-way players being better in general than one-way players is an interesting one, and it does carry some weight in terms of making it easier for you to build an effective roster. I don't think it's debatable that it's better to have a star that plays excels on both ends of the court, and that having one makes it so much easier to put players around them since you're not worried about making up for their deficiencies on either end. However, truly elite star players are just rare enough that teams don't really have the luxury of picking and choosing when it comes to acquiring them. Dirk and Nash may be one-way players and harder to build around than two-way players like Duncan and Kidd, but teams are going to do their best to acquire and keep them if the opportunity arises because that level of elite production is just so hard to come by in one player. The 05-08 Suns team in general is just a treasure trove of information on what "basketball purists" got wrong and how the league changed. It's weird with Nash though because he definitely benefited more from the Suns than most think: he peaked late, looks way different from Dallas Nash, and he played at an extremely high level. OTOH, he was THE guy since no one else has ever put up those offensive numbers in a PG driven offense for that long and that high. Marion of course is underrated (same as Iggy imo) where you have a Pippen level talent defensively that doesn't get credit because they aren't winning chips with a HoFer. But that is just a lot to talk about those Phoenix teams in general where to this day many don't realize D'Antoni's importance to the modern NBA. He was criticized a lot with the Knicks and Lakers and once he left people started to realize that maybe he really knew wtf he was doing after all. As for the bolded I have issue with that. There is no evidence that it's easier to build around say, Duncan, than it is to build around Dirk or Nash. For one it's damn difficult to measure the absolute value of individual offense and defense for guys playing the same position never mind different ones. Then there are issues of measuring things like passing, matching up, and scoring ability that may change team strategy that isn't easy to figure out. Add in organizations having more control over player success than the players themselves and it gets trickier. Of course the gold standard is KG vs Duncan where I doubt swapping them would have any noticeable effect on their teams' success in any year except pre 2001. He also claimed defense is more important than offense which has yet to be proven by anyone. It may be that finding top tier defensive talents are more difficult than finding the offensive counterpart but the value of both are pretty significant. The PG style analysis was quite interesting, even if some of the analysis was a little questionable here and there (i.e. picking a "spacing" statistic based on which one Curry comes out on top). I'm not sure if it really adds anything that we didn't already know about those players though. Yea it was just a fun little read. I sill think analysts in general have too much of a fascination with "3s create spacing!" stupidity that isn't actually the sole way, or even best way to necessarily do it. Curry is a great 3pt shooter but he's also deadly from the midrange area and has the handle to get to the basket no matter which way you set the pick: that creates a lot of spacing. Guys that can't shoot 3s - noticeably Wade and Parker always seem to have a ton of space because they are a threat to split a trap or drop a floater 15 feet away. I think the entire aspect of spacing on the court is misunderstood by a lot of writers because they really don't watch a game more than once to see what these guys are doing. I was pretty impressed by the Blake article, even though it's likely that someone probably helped him. It was great insight into the situation that the players were thrust into, and how it really was BS for the media, public, talking heads, etc. to question or criticize the Clippers players for not doing the right thing or enough in reaction to the Sterling scandal. They were employees who loved their jobs/careers and were getting compensated very well, and it really wasn't their place to be deciding whether Sterling should have been an owner of the Clippers or not. That issue was, and always has been, within the purview of the league and its commissioner, and David Stern did not get enough heat for letting things go for as long as he did. Then again, it's not like Sterling is the only sports team owner with a questionable past or present. 100% agreed. It also shed light that owners really are just "there". The players don't necessarily interact with them on a daily basis, or even really see them as important to their actual lifestyle. The bolded is funny because not only did Stern never get heat for it, but the NFL has an issue with Jim Irsay and afaik the media/public aren't even making a huge deal out of it. The double standard is a real thing  | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16009 Posts
On October 19 2014 16:22 Scarecrow wrote: At least last year you got a decent pick. This time you're gonna end up outside the playoffs with a first rounder going to the suns and Kobe worn down from carrying a terribad team. And this year we get to watch that pick develop if nothing else. | ||
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RowdierBob
Australia12795 Posts
On October 19 2014 15:25 slyboogie wrote: I don't know that there was a better alternative. Just chock it up to bad lottery luck, I guess. But that's the risk they took and now, do they look like a team that will be competitive in the next 5 years? Is Dante Exum going to bring them to the playoffs in 2018? Probably not. But you have to admit the last 3 years have been a failure, picking Exum is not some sort of continuation of a strategy. Utah has failed to develop its guys. Now they have the task of developing the rawest lottery pick of the draft. They can do it, and Exum probably has the tools but do they have a young player that's even as good as Paul Millsap? No way. Agree with this. There are guys who will be sure fire things out of the draft and not shitty team/situation will get in their way (Lebron, Durant, Blake, Davis etc) and then there are guys who need a good structure around them to bring out their best. It's too hard to tell with Exum--he could be anything from the next Jonny Flynn to Penny Hardaway. I have no idea what Quin Snyder is like. I see he has college experience so he could be good at developing youngsters. We'll know by about end of season three where Exum's career arc is heading. Hopefully he can make it. And meh, they screwed the draft where they took Kanter and Burks but the others they didn't really have any quality picks. I think they've done a decent job at developing Hayward (who I think is underrated because he's being used incorrectly). It's hard to know how good Kawhi would be if he went to the Jazz for example (but I'm guessing not as good :D) I guess their shitty results speak for themselves (must admit they're not a team I've watched closely the last three years). | ||
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