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On September 12 2013 05:33 mavignon wrote:
What I don't understand is that France about 8 - 15 years ago was the best team in the world. France 2000 is probably one of the best teams in history of football. The french formation model was hailed as the best in the world, and iirc the germans took a few pointers from us to overhaul their system. What has changed? How come we are so trash now? It doesn't make sense to me.
Just you wait - huge surge of talent incoming for France.
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On September 12 2013 05:59 SkyTheUnknown wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2013 05:33 mavignon wrote:
What I don't understand is that France about 8 - 15 years ago was the best team in the world. France 2000 is probably one of the best teams in history of football. The french formation model was hailed as the best in the world, and iirc the germans took a few pointers from us to overhaul their system. What has changed? How come we are so trash now? It doesn't make sense to me. Just you wait - huge surge of talent incoming for France.
Thats what happens when you have a great generation, you have to sack the next one because you don't really have that many players coming in to the A team, its the same people playing for a decade.
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On September 12 2013 05:33 mavignon wrote:
What I don't understand is that France about 8 - 15 years ago was the best team in the world. France 2000 is probably one of the best teams in history of football. The french formation model was hailed as the best in the world, and iirc the germans took a few pointers from us to overhaul their system. What has changed? How come we are so trash now? It doesn't make sense to me.
I really dont mean it as an insult or disrespect since I really like France, but I think you have too many egoists. Zidane held that at bay in 2006 with his leadership, but I think too many in the national team thinks they know how and what to do best themself.
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Speaking in Toronto this afternoon #MLS Commissioner Don Garber said 3 of the 4 expansion franchises are "already spoken for."
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On September 12 2013 02:25 USvBleakill wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2013 01:10 sharkie wrote:On September 11 2013 21:35 WillyWanker wrote:
The article was good but I disagree with their view on why Spain and Germany give young players more time to grow.
The reason is simple : their A teams are so fucking good that they don't need to inject fresh blood! And when they do, these young players profit from a very tactically mature team and they have almost no pressure on them compared to fail teams like France or England.
These two teams also rely on a team with 90% or more of the players coming from just 1 or 2 clubs, so they all know each other pretty well and it's a lot easier.
And finally I believe that England clearly lacks talent. Even the 'promising' players don't look so good to me... They have more talent than the French youngster at least, but still not enough to compete against the best teams in the world. Germany has only recently been so good. During their childhoods, teens the Germany A team was really really bad. Calling up young players is always the coaches' decision. Klinsmann and Loew back in 2006+ did the right decision and gave the youth its chance. England's problem is also (I think) is that the Premier League and English football in general is very physical. So young players like Wilshere get injured easily and this stops their growth. It started earlier than 2006 it was after the horrible championsips in the early 2000 when the german association started to spend a lot of money on the youth and did things like forcing the clubs to have youth centers and residential schools. I think a part of the problem is that the english transfer market is massivly overheated. Jürgen Klopp (coach of Borussia Dortmund) made a statment that basicly sayed "The English league spend 700 MIllion this year and i dont know 80% of the players". Klopp might not be an expert of the Premier League but i am pretty sure he is watching a lot of football. An example: Besides Dotmund and Bayern Munich, which are just miles ahead the top 3 Transfers moneywise were Luiz Gustavo --> Wolfsburg --> 17.5 Million Heung-Min Son --> Leverkusen --> 10.0 Million Kevin-Prinze Boateng --> Schalke --> 10.0 Million Both Gustavo and Son were the most expensive transfers (buying) in club history. Just to put it into perspective Leverkusen were 3. last season and the only team in Germany that were ablo to beat Bayern Munich last season. Or another example the 2 teams promoted from the second league (Berlin and Braunschweig) spend 2.4 Million €. Combined. Cardif and Hull spend 52.000.000 €. You are a 18 year old english talent? Well sorry dude you could be very good but i cant give you playing time because the club spend 15 Million on this random guy over there and i will lose my job if i let you play instead of him. A lot of Talent that germany has right now comes from the clubs were the good, young players were able to get playing time without the pressure of beeing better than the 20 Million new guy. Özil (Bremen), Khedira (Stutgart), Schürle (Leverkusen) Götze, Reus (Dortmund) They all are insanely good today because they were allowed to make mistakes without beeing feard of "play entertaining perfect and be good at commercials or we will replace you with a 10 Million random guy in the next transfer period"
This is precisely it, the PL's international success makes it difficult for English clubs to have an incentive,
Germany did it really well, its exceptionally impressive but they had some things going for them.
Unfortunately even though the FA is taking some similar steps in terms of coaching and infrastructure at youth levels there is no organic maturity for players that Germany offers. In that respect falling on hard times as a league is actually better in the long run for the country itself.
And that really is what will make it more difficult for England to do what Germany did. The PL will grow and get stronger and stronger and English players will suffer. Money Money Money..
I dont buy the "England lacks talent bit" there is no justifiable metric for such an argument, not even a theoretical one. Talent is everywhere, its a nurture argument when it comes to finding it and eventually getting tangible results.
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On September 12 2013 06:18 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2013 05:33 mavignon wrote:
What I don't understand is that France about 8 - 15 years ago was the best team in the world. France 2000 is probably one of the best teams in history of football. The french formation model was hailed as the best in the world, and iirc the germans took a few pointers from us to overhaul their system. What has changed? How come we are so trash now? It doesn't make sense to me. I really dont mean it as an insult or disrespect since I really like France, but I think you have too many egoists. Zidane held that at bay in 2006 with his leadership, but I think too many in the national team thinks they know how and what to do best themself.
This + the fact that they just lack talent  Even with a good leader now we wouldn't be able to compete against the best teams...
The 98 team was freaking scary, how could we even concede one goal with a team like that playing 4-5-1 ? :D
Zidane wasn't even the best player of this team at that moment.
On September 12 2013 09:48 Rebs wrote:
I dont buy the "England lacks talent bit" there is no justifiable metric for such an argument, not even a theoretical one. Talent is everywhere, its a nurture argument when it comes to finding it and eventually getting tangible results.
It's not what I meant by that. I meant that, of course every country will have his share of talent, but what comes out of the clubs is what I am interested in. In France it's famous that the recruiters for the youngsters in the big clubs are looking for athletic guys, and technical skills/intelligence comes later. Now we end up with retards that only can run straight and tackle... Our talented players are either refused (because they lack physical fitness or just because they don't correspond to what the recruiters are looking for) or not played/misused (because our teams don't know how to play offensive football/smart football).
To change that you have to work on a national level and have a set of rules to redefine the football education of the young players and the caracteristics of a good player... We may have been starting to do that and I think England should rethink their system IF they want their national team to be better.
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On September 12 2013 10:04 WillyWanker wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2013 06:18 sharkie wrote:
I really dont mean it as an insult or disrespect since I really like France, but I think you have too many egoists. Zidane held that at bay in 2006 with his leadership, but I think too many in the national team thinks they know how and what to do best themself. This + the fact that they just lack talent Even with a good leader now we wouldn't be able to compete against the best teams... The 98 team was freaking scary, how could we even concede one goal with a team like that playing 4-5-1 ? :D Zidane wasn't even the best player of this team at that moment.
Yea lol, Zidane hardly "led" that team, He won the final and he was the best player, but there was an undisputed leader on that team called Deschamps irc and they basically just clean sheeted their way to the final
Zidane was nowhere when the Croats were giving France a real time of it..
I still weep for the dutch team that year..
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Yeah the Dutch team was a lot more talented, but hey Netherlands in the World Cup is a long, sad story
France was so strong defensively that they didn't need any striker to win :p We won the World Cup with Guivarc'h and Dugarry...
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Ah our 1998 team  Even though we sucked at taking penalties, I wouldn't hesitate a second to trade them with the current dutch team.
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Netherlands13554 Posts
Dennis Bergkamp, Dennis Bergkamp, Dennis Bergkamp, Dennis Bergkamp, Dennis Bergkamp, Dennis Bergkamp, aaahhaheahahehh, hij krijgt de bal van Frank de Boer, hij neemt hem dan feilloos aan en schiet de bal erin! Dennis Bergkaaaaaamp!!!
Nostalgia :D
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
Mark Overmarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
too xD
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
Currently Ozil press conference going on (might have finished now actually)...im sure Arsenal will be interested xD
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When talk comes to 1998 I point out at that gorgeous argentina team, batistuta, crespo, zanetti, simeone, lopez, veron, ayala, ridiculous.
Tbh I think 1998 was the most stacked tournament ever happened, brazil, france, the dutch, argentina, croatia, england, so many legendary players.
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On September 12 2013 20:57 Steveling wrote:
When talk comes to 1998 I point out at that gorgeous argentina team, batistuta, crespo, zanetti, simeone, lopez, veron, ayala, ridiculous.
Tbh I think 1998 was the most stacked tournament ever happened, brazil, france, the dutch, argentina, croatia, england, so many legendary players.
yea in 1998 talent from all over the world really gathered
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
Think 2014 could be another though.
Belgium - Stackked to fuck with talent, very young too
Spain - Are Spain
Brazil - Scolari is working wonders and giving there stars some hope
Argentina - are finally playing as good as they should be
Germany - Solid Germans, some big stars
Netherlands - Solid qualification again big stars
Any of those teams could win it imo.
Thats excluding if Portugal do there turn up at a major tournament and play amazing, another random team playing amazing etc.
Can't wait for Brazil 2014!
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Teams like Chile or Colombia will also be scary to play against in South America...
Unfortunately for Ronaldo, I don't think Portugal has the players to win a big tournament :O Messi might have this chance ! Argentina isn't really a balanced team (compare their offensive talent vs their defensive talent just for fun xD) but they can score against anybody I feel.
My favourites :
1- Germany, because it's this time generation wins something. CL for Bayern might be the trigger they needed.
2- Argentina, because it's D10S time.
3- Brazil, because it's in Brazil and they are unpredictable.
4- Spain, because winning 4 titles in a row would be a crazy achievement. I put them n°4 because I cannot believe they'll win again, but who knows, I thought the same about the European Championship... They are still probably n°1 team in the world though.
And after that I can see Italy, Netherlands, Chile, Colombia getting to Quarters Finals :p
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On September 12 2013 22:32 Pandemona wrote:
Think 2014 could be another though.
Belgium - Stackked to fuck with talent, very young too
Spain - Are Spain
Brazil - Scolari is working wonders and giving there stars some hope
Argentina - are finally playing as good as they should be
Germany - Solid Germans, some big stars
Netherlands - Solid qualification again big stars
Any of those teams could win it imo.
Thats excluding if Portugal do there turn up at a major tournament and play amazing, another random team playing amazing etc.
Can't wait for Brazil 2014!
hmm not sure.
Belgium looks too "green" they are extremely talented but 2014 is maybe too early for them.
Argentina and Netherland look not deep enough especially in the defensive
Germany and Spain are the clear favorites, multiple international titles, playing on the highest level all year great players from roster spot 1 to 30.
The big question will be Brazil. Yes they are talented and well coached but there are big question marks like how well someone like Neymar or Hulk really doing at the highest level. And the pressure will just inhuman.
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Netherlands6273 Posts
On September 12 2013 22:43 USvBleakill wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2013 22:32 Pandemona wrote:
Think 2014 could be another though.
Belgium - Stackked to fuck with talent, very young too
Spain - Are Spain
Brazil - Scolari is working wonders and giving there stars some hope
Argentina - are finally playing as good as they should be
Germany - Solid Germans, some big stars
Netherlands - Solid qualification again big stars
Any of those teams could win it imo.
Thats excluding if Portugal do there turn up at a major tournament and play amazing, another random team playing amazing etc.
Can't wait for Brazil 2014! hmm not sure. Belgium looks too "green" they are extremely talented but 2014 is maybe too early for them. Argentina and Netherland look not deep enough especially in the defensive Germany and Spain are the clear favorites, multiple international titles, playing on the highest level all year great players from roster spot 1 to 30. The big question will be Brazil. Yes they are talented and well coached but there are big question marks like how well someone like Neymar or Hulk really doing at the highest level. And the pressure will just inhuman.
We'd need some defensive players develop like crazy to even have a shot at the world cup. We're not really that good at the moment.
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Argentina may not look deep enough, but they are argentinians playing in Brazil and I think the rivalry and the argentinian ever will to screw brazilians at everything both do is enough to boost their performance.
Argentina winning the WC in Brazil would render them the opportunity to forever mock us around.... an upgraded version of the Maracanazo..
And even though the event will happen during Winter, we are in Brazil, which means hot weather (except maybe in Porto Alegre, where the weather can vary from 0º C to 30º C, but usually stays between 6ºC and 18ºC), which may damage a little the performance of some european teams.
Of course weather and homefield alone are not enough to decide the outcome of a game, but it certainly can balance things out a little bit, if the difference in quality is not too high.
Either way, Germany and Spain are definitely the two most likely to win.
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EPT
