On September 11 2013 11:59 BoZiffer wrote:
Zach Lowe is up to his usual - producing fantastic work. I found the article to be interesting and curious to see what my fellow ballers think about his points/counterpoints...

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9656369/the-case-40-minute-nba-game

The only plus I can think of to this (I don't consider aligning with FIBA a priority...or whatever lower than a priority is) is that it would reduce talent dilution. The downsides are a definitely more unequal NBA and probably a dumber NBA as well because strategies that once could play out over 48 minutes are much less effective.

Jibba

United States22883 Posts

September 13 2013 19:09 GMT

#1425

Compared to what? It should get them to the playoffs in the East if him and one other key member can actually stay healthy, which hasn't happened for them yet. I think it gets you further than a star at most other positions in today's NBA, though.

karazax

United States3737 Posts

September 13 2013 19:14 GMT

#1426

On September 14 2013 03:54 cLutZ wrote:
While Kyrie is a good PG, I think people really overstimate how far that can get you.

Even with a 100% healthy Bynum the Cavs will be hard pressed to better than a 3 seed, but they would present match up problems for a lot of teams. Alot depending on how their rookies play. Of course counting on a healthy Bynum seems even less likely than counting on a healthy Yao or Greg Oden. I wouldn't want Kyrie to be my team's best player if I was hoping to win a championship this year, but he is very entertaining to watch.

cLutZ

United States19574 Posts

September 13 2013 19:36 GMT

#1427

On September 14 2013 04:09 Jibba wrote:
Compared to what? It should get them to the playoffs in the East if him and one other key member can actually stay healthy, which hasn't happened for them yet. I think it gets you further than a star at most other positions in today's NBA, though.

Depends who you define as a star really. PG is really deep right now.

Ace

United States16096 Posts

September 13 2013 19:49 GMT

#1428

I'm in the boat that thinks a Kyrie (as he is now) + Lebron team in the future would be a massive failure. Gotta let that guy develop a complete offensive game and some semblance of defense before giving him superstar status.

karazax

United States3737 Posts

September 13 2013 20:02 GMT

#1429

Lebron on pretty much any team gives that team a chance to make the finals, see what he did with Mo Williams as his second best player, and before Lebron had developed any semblance of a consistant outside game with the Cavs. They wouldn't likely be favorites to win it all, but they would be at least as good as they were the first time Lebron was in Cleveland.

Jerubaal

United States7684 Posts

September 13 2013 20:43 GMT

#1430

The East was so awful then though.

MassHysteria

United States3678 Posts

September 13 2013 21:52 GMT

#1431

This post not really about Kyrie, but about how PG's are generally the least efficient way to build a championship-caliber team.

History has shown us that the most efficient/most successful way to win the championship is to have two great two-way perimeter players or one great two-way perimeter player paired with a great two-way big man. Once in a while, a more complete team will win it, but those are exceptions and out of the ordinary.

Now if we look at the successful pairings over the years, we will find that dominating/ best-player-on-team PG's are not usually found on those championship teams. There are of course some exceptions like Isaiah Thomas, Tony Parker, and Chauncey Billups but they have all had solid teams throughout, specially on defense, which is something that the PG (usually the shortest man on the team) might have the least impact on.

Just thinking of basketball players as objects/game-pieces on a 3D court, it is easy to see why the shortest player has the biggest physical disadvantage in such an athletic/vertical game like basketball. He has to make up for it in other ways, specially in a half-court setting (like most of the playoffs are), where it is harder to take advantage of their horizontal speed.

Back to Kyrie though, I agree he isn't a superstar yet. I also agree with clutz that I don't think a PG gets you further in today's game. PG is the deepest position in the NBA. Part of that being you don't have to be as tall, so there are more players in the pool to choose from. .... I also agree with karazax that Lebron would still put any team over the top.

Jibba

United States22883 Posts

September 13 2013 22:40 GMT

#1432

A wing that can carry is obviously at the top, but the two way big man is less important. You need a good defender from the position, but their offensive output and benefit has been decreasing, and not just because of the small talent pool but because of defensive changes.

It's becoming more and more problematic to define players as 1-5, we should really be talking about the things they do. The things Kyrie does on offense are extremely valuable, I think moreso than what most big men bring to offenses.

He's not a superstar yet, but he is outstandingly important on one end. And I don't think the combination with Lebron would be that great. There's too much overlap of their strengths. Yeah, Lebron can carry anybody, but the scrubs he was carrying in Cleveland were spot up 3pt shooters and garbage points big men. It's not like Kyrie has the all-around skillset that Wade does to take a step back from primary ballhandler.

Ace

United States16096 Posts

September 13 2013 23:00 GMT

#1433

Listen to Jibba. While I get where you're coming from with "a PG can't be your best player" it isn't true and has a lot to do with what the player is doing, and not because of the position they play. I could easily sit here and say you can't win shit if you're best player is a "Power Forward".

Kazeyonoma

United States2912 Posts

September 13 2013 23:00 GMT

#1434

as a laker fan. screw houston, and dwight howard. good luck over there. I have no delusion about us doing well this year, we're gonna suck, but i'd rather suck, with kobe, than have someone like dwight around who'll turn his back on a team or demand something like fire the coach (again) and amnesty the greatest player of our era, and franchise player of the last 20 years for a legendary organization. No. fuck you.

Lets go nba season, dying for fantasy to start!

cLutZ

United States19574 Posts

September 13 2013 23:12 GMT

#1435

On September 14 2013 08:00 Ace wrote:
Listen to Jibba. While I get where you're coming from with "a PG can't be your best player" it isn't true and has a lot to do with what the player is doing, and not because of the position they play. I could easily sit here and say you can't win shit if you're best player is a "Power Forward".

But then Tim Duncan and Kevin Garnet would bitch slap you back to reality.