On June 09 2013 03:44 mordek wrote: Handstands are a funny thing. Feeling pretty good balancing pushing off a wall handstand and holding. Then I go and workout with friends and they're like you're way too bent (this is with kicking up). I didn't think it felt that bad and then they took a picture. lol. like the letter C. Gotta work on that sensory feedback or something. I think looking at the ground is not helping?
Keep the head in mostly, and look at the ground barely at the top corner of your vision
On June 16 2013 02:47 travis wrote: Hey, I have a question about 2 different scenarios
scenario 1:
I do 3 sets of 5 pistols per leg
scenario 2:
I do 3 sets of 5 pistols per leg and then do a set of 80 normal bodyweight squats
assuming I get adequate rest, will i see more, equal, or less strength gain from scenario 1?
p.s: hi eshlow. saw ur book has crazy good reviews on amazon. congrats
Well, the answer is that it depends.
IN this specific scenario, since 3x5 pistols is probably not a good enough stress on the legs to produce a good strength response it's likely that the strength gain would be similar.
If it was say specific heavy barbell squats then it's likely the only strength without endurance would be superior.
The difference being that it matters how much volume/intensity is needed for the body to sufficiently adapt (SAID principle). If you apply an optimal strength stimulus to get optimal strength gains (yes, it's fairly nebulous to say it that way) then adding anything else is going to detract from those gains.
That's why in beginners there's a study where lots of reps at 30% 1 RM to failure did the same thing as 90% 1 RM to failure.
When working on the front lever I've been getting a stinging sensation behind my left shoulder blade, if it helps to be more specific I can try to identify where exactly along my spine. Started a few weeks ago and hasn't gone away. I've tried rolling the area with a lacrosse ball so far, any other suggestions? Also, on the back lever, which I'm usually feeling very good on and it's just a strength limitation I've been getting a slight discomfort/weakness in my left trap... which is just odd as I don't feel like this is a main muscle for the left but its been a week or so now that it's caused me to abort the hold when I could have held it longer.
I am doing WallHeadstandpushups (Eccentrics), Ring Rows, RTO Pushups, Pullups and Bodyweight Squats. What is in your opinion the best way to pair the exercises to reduce downtime? Cause it just takes to long for a whole workout with warmup, skillwork and mobilitywork added on top, when i am going through one exercise after another.
Right now I am pairing WallHeadstandpushups with the Ring Rows, RTO Pushups with the Pullups and do the Squats last but I think this is not really optimal. I am doing the Squats last because they are the lowest of my priorities when it comes to my goals.
On June 17 2013 21:08 mordek wrote: When working on the front lever I've been getting a stinging sensation behind my left shoulder blade, if it helps to be more specific I can try to identify where exactly along my spine. Started a few weeks ago and hasn't gone away. I've tried rolling the area with a lacrosse ball so far, any other suggestions? Also, on the back lever, which I'm usually feeling very good on and it's just a strength limitation I've been getting a slight discomfort/weakness in my left trap... which is just odd as I don't feel like this is a main muscle for the left but its been a week or so now that it's caused me to abort the hold when I could have held it longer.
Depends on where it is. It can be weakness in which case I would suggest some more horizontal rowing before attempting more front lever work. If the back lever stuff is on the same side, then it's probably a pretty good idea to work overall on scapular strength and stability from all directions.
Mobility and soft tissue work may help as well.
On June 18 2013 19:13 eLyx wrote: I am doing WallHeadstandpushups (Eccentrics), Ring Rows, RTO Pushups, Pullups and Bodyweight Squats. What is in your opinion the best way to pair the exercises to reduce downtime? Cause it just takes to long for a whole workout with warmup, skillwork and mobilitywork added on top, when i am going through one exercise after another.
Right now I am pairing WallHeadstandpushups with the Ring Rows, RTO Pushups with the Pullups and do the Squats last but I think this is not really optimal. I am doing the Squats last because they are the lowest of my priorities when it comes to my goals.
Depends on what you want to prioritize.
You can generally pair push/legs, pull/legs and push/pull for all combos. And you generally want to put the exercises you want to progress on first.
What you are doing seems fine right now since squats are your lowest priority.
28-day handstand challenge started yesterday. I've been meaning to start practicing daily so here goes. I was able to do two 5 second free handstands yesterday and a 45 second wall handstand this morning. Hoping to get a 20 second free handstand and a minute+ wall handstand. gogogo
Ok, on the front lever I keep externally rotating my shoulders at the beginning. This is the active stable position right? I feel like after pulling myself up I move my knees out (advanced tuck) and it just doesn't feel like I can keep my shoulders there... they relax to a internally rotated position, like I was doing a pull-up, my back is then struggling which I suppose is the weak point and I feel much less stable. Am I doing anything wrong and what should I be focusing on?
This isn't from personal experience as I'm not working FL yet. So mainly from OG. Yes you should keep your shoulders retracted and depressed in all the front lever profgressions. If you can't then you lack the posterior shoulder strength for that progression. Some additional assistance work might work. Depending on your routine and current abilities it might be working the previous progression with extra attention to shoulder position, FL pullups in the previous progression, some horizontal rowing or working the manna progression.
Btw my posterior shoulders are also weak in comparison, so I feel for you.
Also something about the L-sit I've been meaning to ask eshlow's opinion on: (This is about training on the floor, haven't tried parallettes.) I'm starting to feel that as a novice it might be better to work the L-sit with fingers forward if you want to focus on shoulder development. The reason being that if you have fingers backward, shoulders really retracted and hips by your hands, then most of your weight is in front of you and you tend to automatically tilt forward since you cant apply any strength to counter your weight. Whereas if your fingers are forward you can apply strength from your fingers and wrists to get some leverage to prevent you from falling forward. If I want to keep good shoulder position and hips by my hands with fingers back I need to try to lift my legs past parallel so that my center of mass moves closer to my hands.
Here are some examples to better show what I mean. This is what I consider good shoulder and chest position in L-sit with fingers forward. And here with fingers pointing back you can see how the shoulders come forward as the hips go back to keep the center of mass closer to the person's hands.
Now that's no problem if your shoulders are already strong enough to do lifts like that. But as a novice of course you want fly through the tucked versions and just get your legs straight asap. But I think doing so with fingers back might just lead to over emphasizing the compression and lead to a rounded back with hips behind the hands and shoulders forward. I'm pretty sure I was guilty of that at least. That's a shame since now that I started trying to do it fingers forward and IMO much better shoulder/hip/chest positions I'm really seeing how awesome and efficient of a shoulder exercise the L-sit can be. No wonder my rowing has been sucking... haha :D
Thanks 4th, I think I knew that but didn't want to! I'll probably just really nail the fully tucked position and do some tucked pull-ups. Also, I know exactly what you mean with the L-sit. I was contemplating bringing it up to make sure I wasn't doing something wrong but felt a video was best and I haven't been bothered to do one yet.
On July 09 2013 20:07 mordek wrote: Ok, on the front lever I keep externally rotating my shoulders at the beginning. This is the active stable position right? I feel like after pulling myself up I move my knees out (advanced tuck) and it just doesn't feel like I can keep my shoulders there... they relax to a internally rotated position, like I was doing a pull-up, my back is then struggling which I suppose is the weak point and I feel much less stable. Am I doing anything wrong and what should I be focusing on?
Typically means weakness in the posterior shoulder and potentially rotator cuff and.or scapular retractors.
I think 4H said that as well.
You can do specific work with some exercises there if you want.
On July 09 2013 22:01 4thHatchery wrote: This isn't from personal experience as I'm not working FL yet. So mainly from OG. Yes you should keep your shoulders retracted and depressed in all the front lever profgressions. If you can't then you lack the posterior shoulder strength for that progression. Some additional assistance work might work. Depending on your routine and current abilities it might be working the previous progression with extra attention to shoulder position, FL pullups in the previous progression, some horizontal rowing or working the manna progression.
Btw my posterior shoulders are also weak in comparison, so I feel for you.
Also something about the L-sit I've been meaning to ask eshlow's opinion on: (This is about training on the floor, haven't tried parallettes.) I'm starting to feel that as a novice it might be better to work the L-sit with fingers forward if you want to focus on shoulder development. The reason being that if you have fingers backward, shoulders really retracted and hips by your hands, then most of your weight is in front of you and you tend to automatically tilt forward since you cant apply any strength to counter your weight. Whereas if your fingers are forward you can apply strength from your fingers and wrists to get some leverage to prevent you from falling forward. If I want to keep good shoulder position and hips by my hands with fingers back I need to try to lift my legs past parallel so that my center of mass moves closer to my hands.
Here are some examples to better show what I mean. This is what I consider good shoulder and chest position in L-sit with fingers forward. And here with fingers pointing back you can see how the shoulders come forward as the hips go back to keep the center of mass closer to the person's hands. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKMnv7eEsnQ
Now that's no problem if your shoulders are already strong enough to do lifts like that. But as a novice of course you want fly through the tucked versions and just get your legs straight asap. But I think doing so with fingers back might just lead to over emphasizing the compression and lead to a rounded back with hips behind the hands and shoulders forward. I'm pretty sure I was guilty of that at least. That's a shame since now that I started trying to do it fingers forward and IMO much better shoulder/hip/chest positions I'm really seeing how awesome and efficient of a shoulder exercise the L-sit can be. No wonder my rowing has been sucking... haha :D
My take on it is this: you get enough anterior shoulder development from HS, and whatever pushing exercises.
Most poeple are weaker on the posterior shoulders + poor posture so I like L-sit progressing towards hands backward. In addition, if you are eventually going to start to work up to V-sit/manna you will want the hands backwards to get used to it.
Rounding the back in L-sit is not that big of a deal as well. Eventually you want total compression so your back is going to have to be rounded anyway.
On July 09 2013 22:01 4thHatchery wrote: This isn't from personal experience as I'm not working FL yet. So mainly from OG. Yes you should keep your shoulders retracted and depressed in all the front lever profgressions. If you can't then you lack the posterior shoulder strength for that progression. Some additional assistance work might work. Depending on your routine and current abilities it might be working the previous progression with extra attention to shoulder position, FL pullups in the previous progression, some horizontal rowing or working the manna progression.
Btw my posterior shoulders are also weak in comparison, so I feel for you.
Also something about the L-sit I've been meaning to ask eshlow's opinion on: (This is about training on the floor, haven't tried parallettes.) I'm starting to feel that as a novice it might be better to work the L-sit with fingers forward if you want to focus on shoulder development. The reason being that if you have fingers backward, shoulders really retracted and hips by your hands, then most of your weight is in front of you and you tend to automatically tilt forward since you cant apply any strength to counter your weight. Whereas if your fingers are forward you can apply strength from your fingers and wrists to get some leverage to prevent you from falling forward. If I want to keep good shoulder position and hips by my hands with fingers back I need to try to lift my legs past parallel so that my center of mass moves closer to my hands.
Here are some examples to better show what I mean. This is what I consider good shoulder and chest position in L-sit with fingers forward. And here with fingers pointing back you can see how the shoulders come forward as the hips go back to keep the center of mass closer to the person's hands. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKMnv7eEsnQ
Now that's no problem if your shoulders are already strong enough to do lifts like that. But as a novice of course you want fly through the tucked versions and just get your legs straight asap. But I think doing so with fingers back might just lead to over emphasizing the compression and lead to a rounded back with hips behind the hands and shoulders forward. I'm pretty sure I was guilty of that at least. That's a shame since now that I started trying to do it fingers forward and IMO much better shoulder/hip/chest positions I'm really seeing how awesome and efficient of a shoulder exercise the L-sit can be. No wonder my rowing has been sucking... haha :D
My take on it is this: you get enough anterior shoulder development from HS, and whatever pushing exercises.
Most poeple are weaker on the posterior shoulders + poor posture so I like L-sit progressing towards hands backward. In addition, if you are eventually going to start to work up to V-sit/manna you will want the hands backwards to get used to it.
Rounding the back in L-sit is not that big of a deal as well. Eventually you want total compression so your back is going to have to be rounded anyway.
I meant that IMO a true novice will get more posterior shoulder activation from doing L-sit with hands forward. It's not really even about the rounding of the back but I see the hips going back as a problem. And if you do it hands backward the hips will go back unless you lift your legs which is something a beginner most likely won't be able to do. The reason I don't like the hips going back is that if they go back far enough and you're mentally thinking about just depressing your shoulders and keeping the legs off the ground, the shoulders will IMO be doing more of a flexion exercise rather than extension.
I absolutely agree that most people get enough anterior shoulder work already and I also agree that there comes a point where turning the hands backwards is beneficial to further posterior shoulder development.
Personally at least I feel my posterior shoulder gets more work when doing tucked L-sit with hands forward and focusing on keeping the shoulders retracted and hips forward, as opposed to doing a "full" L-sit with hands backward where my hips go back. I may write another post later when I have more time just to make sure there's no misunderstanding about what I mean, and to see if mordek still agrees with me.
I have since, switched all the bodyweight exercises I've been doing (not a lot anyways) onto the rings progressions. A problem I've encountered are the rings rows, which I can't get my chest to the rings level (hands at nipples level)... The rows are done with feet elevated on a chair. Before this, I've been doing tables rows, that table was sturdy with thick borders (chest was brought to almost the border of the table, but since it was thick enough, distance between chest to hands was quite big, say about ~16cm or so), so I have no idea if I could've brought my chest up to the bar if the rows were done on a bar.
Should I do an easier progression of rings rows with feet on floor with an angle where my chest reaches the rings level or should I keep doing the feet elevated on chair rows until I get stronger?
One thing I've noticed is my scapular strength during adduction, this and probably other factors are affecting both rows and pull-up eccentrics... When the scapula is retracted at the top in both pull ups and rows, it either gets too tiring or very hard to hold it for longer.
Although in the case of pull ups eccentrics, I'd say the progression has been quite tedious and frustrating, since my left arm is weaker than the right one, at the beginning of the attempted pull up I can only get up to a middle height of such exercise (doorframe pull up bar, door is quite low, so to begin the exercise I hang with bend knees)... But if I start the exercise with feet on ground without it being a full ROM (arms flexed), I can get to the top for a few times. When doing assisted full ROM (elevating myself from a chair slowly), I can feel little twitching in my left arm area (maybe end of the deltoid and beginning of bicep/tricep), maybe not strong enough in that area?
Edit: Actually my question was pretty stupid, I should just do an easier variation with feet on the ground until I get enough strength... But still I'd like to know more about muscle weakness and what's stopping me from that pull up...
Got L-sits 24s, 23s, 22s this morning. It's so weird, some workouts I can't get an L-sit over 20s let alone for three sets. Same thing goes for other exercises.
On August 14 2013 08:03 Namunelbo wrote: So I just got myself a pair of rings.
I have since, switched all the bodyweight exercises I've been doing (not a lot anyways) onto the rings progressions. A problem I've encountered are the rings rows, which I can't get my chest to the rings level (hands at nipples level)... The rows are done with feet elevated on a chair. Before this, I've been doing tables rows, that table was sturdy with thick borders (chest was brought to almost the border of the table, but since it was thick enough, distance between chest to hands was quite big, say about ~16cm or so), so I have no idea if I could've brought my chest up to the bar if the rows were done on a bar.
Should I do an easier progression of rings rows with feet on floor with an angle where my chest reaches the rings level or should I keep doing the feet elevated on chair rows until I get stronger?
One thing I've noticed is my scapular strength during adduction, this and probably other factors are affecting both rows and pull-up eccentrics... When the scapula is retracted at the top in both pull ups and rows, it either gets too tiring or very hard to hold it for longer.
Although in the case of pull ups eccentrics, I'd say the progression has been quite tedious and frustrating, since my left arm is weaker than the right one, at the beginning of the attempted pull up I can only get up to a middle height of such exercise (doorframe pull up bar, door is quite low, so to begin the exercise I hang with bend knees)... But if I start the exercise with feet on ground without it being a full ROM (arms flexed), I can get to the top for a few times. When doing assisted full ROM (elevating myself from a chair slowly), I can feel little twitching in my left arm area (maybe end of the deltoid and beginning of bicep/tricep), maybe not strong enough in that area?
Edit: Actually my question was pretty stupid, I should just do an easier variation with feet on the ground until I get enough strength... But still I'd like to know more about muscle weakness and what's stopping me from that pull up...
Do an easier version and work full range of motion.
If you eventually want a muscle up, you need to get good at the top row range of motion as it is the same as the transition part of the muscle up. That's the primary reason why I would suggest it.
Tired scapulas in taht position typically means weakness. So maybe add in a couple sets of just pure retraction as well in the row position.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://sebahudin.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/66-l-sit1.jpg)
