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On October 13 2013 04:28 phyre112 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2013 19:06 Shauni wrote:On October 12 2013 10:23 phyre112 wrote:On October 12 2013 09:08 Shauni wrote:On October 12 2013 08:53 phyre112 wrote:On October 12 2013 07:20 Shauni wrote:I'm trying to bulk clean but I feel it's so difficult to eat the required amount. I started a myfitness diary and apparently I need to eat over 5000 cal a day just for maintenance. No wonder I've been thin (skinnyfat?) for so long. One issue is that I sleep almost 12 hours and I can't eat the first few hours after waking up due to nausea so there's only about 10 hours to eat. It gets a bit easier if you do snacks, fruits, nuts etc but just eating vegetables with meat/chicken/fish and occasionally rice is so difficult. For example yesterday I forced myself a gainer and protein drink as breakfast. Then I ate 1kg minced meat with tomatoes spices and some vegetables. Lots of butter to fry too. Some lime and carrots. Later, a few bananas and nut mix. more detailedIt's almost ridiculous how much effort I need to put in to get bigger, I don't even see how people can gain so much weight without any effort. I must be missing something. eat more constantly. don't force yourself to eat 1kg of meat at a time, eat 350g at three different times an hour apart, it's much easier that way. also wtf 5k cals? I don't see how that's possible without you being a pro athlete. What kind of modifiers are you using on myfitnesspal? Well that lunch was split up into 3 parts. I didn't eat it all at once. Only modifier is 180 minute badminton, I'm not usually counting jogging/walk/lift/bodyweight training so some days it could be higher. what do oyu have in there for height/weight/activity level? 78kg / 193 cm / active I'm 193 cm and 90kg. I bulk right now at ~3500 cals, but besides lifting I'm pretty sedentary. I was maintaining at about 3700 cals, 84kg when I was the most active I have ever been. That included 12 hours/week rugby practice AND two full 80 min matches saturdays, 5 days/week lifting for 1-2 hours per session, 12 hours/week swimming, 5-10 miles/day walking to class and work, moderately physical job, and some occasional pickup basketball. with those stats, aiming for 5k calories is probably WAY more than you need.
Well the thing is, I've been trying to increase weight for a pretty long time now even though I didn't strictly count calories every day. I've been eating a lot (probably between 3000-4000 kcal a day, not really increasing cardio) but my weight hasn't really gone up.
I don't want to become a muscle monster or fat because it'd hurt my sports but I figure at least 5-10kg would be sound, as you can practically see the rib-cage when I'm straightening my back. It seems to be an incredibly difficult task though, maybe something is wrong with the metabolism. I read somewhere that you can 'reset' it by dieting turkey breast and and broccoli and drinking gallons of water (I think it was an elliott video) but I don't know how much of it is 'broscience' and how much is real.
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United States3765 Posts
Don't expect to gain a bunch of weight overnight unless you are overeating and putting on fat. The maximum muscle the average person can put on in a month is .5-1 kg max. so eating slightly above your maintenance and working out should be sufficient to gain the weight in a healthy manner without putting on fat.
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@Shauni: Metabolic shifts don't happen overnight. Historically it's taken me 1-2 months to ramp from lazy-slob 25kcal/kg up to 50+kcal/kg the few times I've done it. Instead of stressing about meeting some arbitrary intake figure, my daily focus was on doing ever so slightly more than the day before. I've found then that a slow increase in intake followed naturally as my body demanded more food to meet increasing needs. Deciding to suddenly cram say 500kcal extra to meet a target figure is a brutal test of will, and always seemed to stimulate my fat cells rather than metabolism. Eating a mere 25kcal more than yesterday is easy.
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United States3765 Posts
I'm currently ~150 lbs 5'9" at maybe 12% BF at the moment up from 140lbs eating ~2500-3k calories a day for 2 weeks now. If I want to stay the same weight while losing fat, does it make sense to continue eating the same kcal per day while working out? I want to be at ~8% before gaining any more weight, which I expect to take 3 months or so, at which point I'll add another 500cal to my diet.
Is my line of thinking reasonable or am I off somewhere?
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Just got one of those things that you can put whole fruits and vegetables in and get a smoothie type drink out of. Is blender the correct term? It seems more like a blender on cocaine to me! But it's great. Hopefully I will be eating more fruits and vegetables regularly now. Currently enjoying a post workout apple, banana, and strawberry smoothie 
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On October 14 2013 22:21 Najda wrote:
I'm currently ~150 lbs 5'9" at maybe 12% BF at the moment up from 140lbs eating ~2500-3k calories a day for 2 weeks now. If I want to stay the same weight while losing fat, does it make sense to continue eating the same kcal per day while working out? I want to be at ~8% before gaining any more weight, which I expect to take 3 months or so, at which point I'll add another 500cal to my diet.
Is my line of thinking reasonable or am I off somewhere?
What youre describing is a "recomp" - short for recomposition, which means forcing your body to burn off fat to provide excess energy while building up muscle.
It works, but not too terribly well, and the leaner you already are, the harder it's going to be to get anywhere. If you want to get anywhere with it, you better be strict on your macronutrients, and I have to wonder what your routine looks like. Dropping into single digits with it is going to be incredibly difficult - have you been that lean before?
On October 15 2013 08:19 autoexec wrote:Just got one of those things that you can put whole fruits and vegetables in and get a smoothie type drink out of. Is blender the correct term? It seems more like a blender on cocaine to me! But it's great. Hopefully I will be eating more fruits and vegetables regularly now. Currently enjoying a post workout apple, banana, and strawberry smoothie
Is it a Juicer? or a blender?
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sounds like a blender. great for making smoothies. stuff i commonly put in - apples, bananas, blueberries, raspberries, strawberries, peaches, kale, yogurt, milk, ice cream, coconut milk, spring mix veggies...
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United States3765 Posts
On October 15 2013 13:26 phyre112 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2013 22:21 Najda wrote:
I'm currently ~150 lbs 5'9" at maybe 12% BF at the moment up from 140lbs eating ~2500-3k calories a day for 2 weeks now. If I want to stay the same weight while losing fat, does it make sense to continue eating the same kcal per day while working out? I want to be at ~8% before gaining any more weight, which I expect to take 3 months or so, at which point I'll add another 500cal to my diet.
Is my line of thinking reasonable or am I off somewhere? What youre describing is a "recomp" - short for recomposition, which means forcing your body to burn off fat to provide excess energy while building up muscle. It works, but not too terribly well, and the leaner you already are, the harder it's going to be to get anywhere. If you want to get anywhere with it, you better be strict on your macronutrients, and I have to wonder what your routine looks like. Dropping into single digits with it is going to be incredibly difficult - have you been that lean before?
I'm doing starting strength at the moment, essentially just started three weeks ago. I do that M/W/F and I train Muay Thai M/T/Th as well as having a semi-physical job on the weekends. I used to be ~125 lbs at the same height so in a sense, yes I was that lean before, but I also had no muscle to speak of. I posted a rough outline of my typical diet about a week ago in here, as well as my goal of reaching 170 lbs but I'm more focused at the moment on my short term goal of a healthy 150 lbs with <10% BF.
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It's definitely not a juicer, but yeah I guess blender is the right term? Oh well. It's working great for having me eat more fruits than I normally do 
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On October 15 2013 22:25 Najda wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2013 13:26 phyre112 wrote:On October 14 2013 22:21 Najda wrote:
I'm currently ~150 lbs 5'9" at maybe 12% BF at the moment up from 140lbs eating ~2500-3k calories a day for 2 weeks now. If I want to stay the same weight while losing fat, does it make sense to continue eating the same kcal per day while working out? I want to be at ~8% before gaining any more weight, which I expect to take 3 months or so, at which point I'll add another 500cal to my diet.
Is my line of thinking reasonable or am I off somewhere? What youre describing is a "recomp" - short for recomposition, which means forcing your body to burn off fat to provide excess energy while building up muscle. It works, but not too terribly well, and the leaner you already are, the harder it's going to be to get anywhere. If you want to get anywhere with it, you better be strict on your macronutrients, and I have to wonder what your routine looks like. Dropping into single digits with it is going to be incredibly difficult - have you been that lean before? I'm doing starting strength at the moment, essentially just started three weeks ago. I do that M/W/F and I train Muay Thai M/T/Th as well as having a semi-physical job on the weekends. I used to be ~125 lbs at the same height so in a sense, yes I was that lean before, but I also had no muscle to speak of. I posted a rough outline of my typical diet about a week ago in here, as well as my goal of reaching 170 lbs but I'm more focused at the moment on my short term goal of a healthy 150 lbs with <10% BF.
Yeah, you're basically shooting yourself in the foot before you run a marathon here.
Make up your mind whether your goal atm is to lift heavy, or to be at that certain weight and leanness. SS is meant to be run with an excess of calories coming in, along with good sleeping patterns, and few other ways to expend your energy. it's meant for you to add body weight, and get your lifts up. Running a LP program alongside all that other activity and not eating enough is not actually going to get you linear progress.
If you don't care so much about what you end up lifting, but rather just want to be 150lbs and sub 10%, you're going to want a more BB style routine alongside your other activity (I'm just going to assume Muay Thai = HIIT and your job = LISS because I don't know what it really is.) With that set up, and you still lifting 3-4 times per week, you'll be in a much better stance to get your recomp working and hit your goals.
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United States3765 Posts
What if my main goal is strength? You make it sound as if it's not possible without putting on fat, which I just really hate the idea of doing. I realize my gains might not be as fast but if I'm eating just enough to build muscle and not fat it wouldn't be much slower would it?
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On October 16 2013 09:32 Najda wrote:
What if my main goal is strength? You make it sound as if it's not possible without putting on fat, which I just really hate the idea of doing. I realize my gains might not be as fast but if I'm eating just enough to build muscle and not fat it wouldn't be much slower would it?
You didn't say your main goal was strength, you said it was 150 lbs and sub 10% bf.
The specifics depend on your actual training history (since you're on SS, I doubt there's much of it? What are your lifts atm?) and like I said, I don't know what muay thai is like (but I assume it's basically HIIT?) but the plan you're giving doesn't have you eating "just enough to build muscle" - it has you eating just enough to maintain muscle, and drop some fat. You're going to make some strength gains, sure, but you're going to be frustrated by how hard they come and how quickly they stall out.
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United States3765 Posts
My lifts atm are 155 3x5 squat 165 1x5 DL 105 3x5 Bench, so I should have a while before I hit a plateau. (By while I mean relative to how long I've been training). I've been going for 2.5 weeks now, but I have trained for 2-4 week long periods in the past and had stopped for various reasons that shouldn't arise again.
My longterm goals are strength related but I don't want to sacrifice my bodyfat to achieve them, but I understand that means it will take longer. Would my best course of action be to continue eating at a small surplus (like ~300-500 cal) to gain weight/strength and then cut a little bit? Would that result in me gaining a noticeable amount of bodyfat?
My 150 lbs <10% bodyfat small goal was made under the impression it wouldn't really effect my strength gains, while being 170 lbs 8% bodyfat with 400 squat 450 deadlift 300 bench are my longer goals, although the exact numbers are sort of in flux. I originally only mentioned weight/fat goals since I was asking questions pertaining to that specifically.
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On October 16 2013 12:01 Najda wrote:
My lifts atm are 155 3x5 squat 165 1x5 DL 105 3x5 Bench, so I should have a while before I hit a plateau. (By while I mean relative to how long I've been training). I've been going for 2.5 weeks now, but I have trained for 2-4 week long periods in the past and had stopped for various reasons that shouldn't arise again.
My longterm goals are strength related but I don't want to sacrifice my bodyfat to achieve them, but I understand that means it will take longer. Would my best course of action be to continue eating at a small surplus (like ~300-500 cal) to gain weight/strength and then cut a little bit? Would that result in me gaining a noticeable amount of bodyfat?
My 150 lbs <10% bodyfat small goal was made under the impression it wouldn't really effect my strength gains, while being 170 lbs 8% bodyfat with 400 squat 450 deadlift 300 bench are my longer goals, although the exact numbers are sort of in flux. I originally only mentioned weight/fat goals since I was asking questions pertaining to that specifically.
I think you'd see much better progress towards your goals if you were to eat a 500 calorie surplus, and then worry about cutting at some time in the future, yes. It might have you gaining a bit of body fat - but is it worth adding 2-3% that won't be hard to cut, in order to make better progress? I would say yes, but it's something you've got to decide for yourself.
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United States3765 Posts
Okay thanks for all the answers, I'll most likely try to eat clean with a small surplus and then cut later.
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On October 16 2013 12:01 Najda wrote:
My lifts atm are 155 3x5 squat 165 1x5 DL 105 3x5 Bench, so I should have a while before I hit a plateau. (By while I mean relative to how long I've been training). I've been going for 2.5 weeks now, but I have trained for 2-4 week long periods in the past and had stopped for various reasons that shouldn't arise again.
My longterm goals are strength related but I don't want to sacrifice my bodyfat to achieve them, but I understand that means it will take longer. Would my best course of action be to continue eating at a small surplus (like ~300-500 cal) to gain weight/strength and then cut a little bit? Would that result in me gaining a noticeable amount of bodyfat?
My 150 lbs <10% bodyfat small goal was made under the impression it wouldn't really effect my strength gains, while being 170 lbs 8% bodyfat with 400 squat 450 deadlift 300 bench are my longer goals, although the exact numbers are sort of in flux. I originally only mentioned weight/fat goals since I was asking questions pertaining to that specifically.
It's definitely possible to put on strength while losing bf% but it also sounds like you don't have a lot of bodyfat to begin with. Just eat big on training days and eat maintenance on recovery days and see how that goes.
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does the "hunger feeling" ever goes away? right now im eating a 200 calories aprox. deficit and most of the time im hungry. i have some bananas near to eat between meals but is hard as fuck avoid all the food out there TT.
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On October 17 2013 22:54 Topin wrote:
does the "hunger feeling" ever goes away? right now im eating a 200 calories aprox. deficit and most of the time im hungry. i have some bananas near to eat between meals but is hard as fuck avoid all the food out there TT.
You didn't specify much of the rest of your diet, but you'll want to try to avoid calorie dense food (bananas are pretty calorie dense, despite being quite nutrient dense, they have lots of sugar and at least ~100 calories per banana. For example, you can eat 220 grams of carrots and still eat fewer calories than that, and those will fill you up more) and then you'll feel full more often. I also like to drink lots of water, helps keep the appetite down.
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On October 17 2013 22:54 Topin wrote:
does the "hunger feeling" ever goes away? right now im eating a 200 calories aprox. deficit and most of the time im hungry. i have some bananas near to eat between meals but is hard as fuck avoid all the food out there TT.
Depends who you are and what your history with food is.
I don't think I've been hungry a single time in the last four years, no matter what I'm eating at -_-.
Depends on if what you're feeling is actually "hunger" or if it's just "I have a habit of eating so I feel like that's what I should be doing right now," on what you're eating, when and why, and also on how fucked up your hormone levels and sensitivities happen to be.
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Anyone else doing intermittent fasting? I just started it and am loving it so far (btw I'm not doing it to lose weight, I'm actually technically bulking).
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EPT
