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On November 13 2013 13:49 Najda wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2013 13:33 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:On November 13 2013 13:29 decafchicken wrote:On November 13 2013 13:18 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:On November 13 2013 13:00 decafchicken wrote:On November 13 2013 12:09 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:On November 13 2013 11:53 zatic wrote:
Great, nobody wants to fight for a change. Move along people. I agree but I must say that I do respect the Paleo diet and those looking for the "perfect" diet. I'm not even sure of what the perfect diet is and you have all of these so called "MD's" saying one thing and another "MD" saying the total opposite. One thing that I do know is that any diet that incorporates unprocessed food is going to be mountains better than than the SAD diet. Heck,maybe the vegan, paleo, and other unprocessed food diets are just as good or close to as good as each other. Personally I feel as though meat is pretty important but I stick with fish and still have a phobia against eating foods high in cholesterol because who knows who's right or wrong about whether it causes heart disease? With that said, I respect everyone's diet and am not against "killing" animals to eat meat. Well there's plenty of research out there, use your critical thinking skills and make your own decision. The problem with the research is that there is always a counter research to the research and one research may say one thing and another research may say another....... I think the best diet is just one that stays away from processed foods and I think that most would agree with me there. That's where the second part comes in. And yeah i think we all agree on that. What if one person thinks that fat is a clogging substance and another thinks that it isn't and there are articles (there really are) scientific articles at that, that show both sides of the same coin. That's where critical thinking comes in, as he said. Are you just here to try to start an argument? You seem confident enough in your own knowledge to not need the help of others posting here.
You don't get it.
Critical thinking can be applied to both sides of the coin.
A prime example, those that follow the low carb high fat diet say that fat is very good for you and have scientific data to back it up.
Those that follow the high carb low fat diet say that fat clogs you up and have scientific data to back it up.
Who are we to judge people that have spent years and years researching this stuff and going through it all to figure out whos right and who's wrong?
If there was a clear cut answer there wouldn't be all of these different diets, the different subsidiary's of these diets, and scientific research supporting all of the different diets.
Critical thinking does not help in this situation.
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On November 13 2013 12:09 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:
Personally I feel as though meat is pretty important but I stick with fish
On November 13 2013 10:12 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:
I'd rather not waste my time with people thinking that eating dead meat is good for you
If eating "dead meat" is no good for you why do you want to eat fish? If you don't buy into certain cholesterol theories why are you buying into certain protein theories? Not trying to be combative I'm just extremely confused by your statements.
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I've tried many diets based on ideology and other people's conclusions (conclusions and data are different beasts) and they always failed me. The only thing that works is taking everything I read on board (and observing what others are doing and the results they're getting) but ultimately following my intuition and listening to my own body rather than letting the world tell me what 'should' do this or that. I'll draw my own conclusions from the data thanks.
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On November 13 2013 13:18 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2013 13:00 decafchicken wrote:On November 13 2013 12:09 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:On November 13 2013 11:53 zatic wrote:
Great, nobody wants to fight for a change. Move along people. I agree but I must say that I do respect the Paleo diet and those looking for the "perfect" diet. I'm not even sure of what the perfect diet is and you have all of these so called "MD's" saying one thing and another "MD" saying the total opposite. One thing that I do know is that any diet that incorporates unprocessed food is going to be mountains better than than the SAD diet. Heck,maybe the vegan, paleo, and other unprocessed food diets are just as good or close to as good as each other. Personally I feel as though meat is pretty important but I stick with fish and still have a phobia against eating foods high in cholesterol because who knows who's right or wrong about whether it causes heart disease? With that said, I respect everyone's diet and am not against "killing" animals to eat meat. Well there's plenty of research out there, use your critical thinking skills and make your own decision. The problem with the research is that there is always a counter research to the research and one research may say one thing and another research may say another.......
if you actually read the research itself and the details of the study/experiment, you'll find that not all research carries the same weight. some studies are shitty, some are sound. unfortunately, most news sites, blogs, and other media outlets don't differentiate between good and bad studies, and just report on some crazy new finding like "X causes Y," when actually, the study suggested "in certain populations that tend to be Z, we saw a correlation between X and W, which may also point to increased occurrences of Y." on the other hand, you'll also find really well done research that has a large sample, is replicable, and is a tightly controlled experiment where data from a control group is compared to that of an experimental group (compare that to an observational study, from which you can only draw correlation, not causation).
if you really do want to find the optimal diet, i suggest you do this.
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On November 13 2013 13:59 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2013 13:49 Najda wrote:On November 13 2013 13:33 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:On November 13 2013 13:29 decafchicken wrote:On November 13 2013 13:18 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:On November 13 2013 13:00 decafchicken wrote:On November 13 2013 12:09 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:On November 13 2013 11:53 zatic wrote:
Great, nobody wants to fight for a change. Move along people. I agree but I must say that I do respect the Paleo diet and those looking for the "perfect" diet. I'm not even sure of what the perfect diet is and you have all of these so called "MD's" saying one thing and another "MD" saying the total opposite. One thing that I do know is that any diet that incorporates unprocessed food is going to be mountains better than than the SAD diet. Heck,maybe the vegan, paleo, and other unprocessed food diets are just as good or close to as good as each other. Personally I feel as though meat is pretty important but I stick with fish and still have a phobia against eating foods high in cholesterol because who knows who's right or wrong about whether it causes heart disease? With that said, I respect everyone's diet and am not against "killing" animals to eat meat. Well there's plenty of research out there, use your critical thinking skills and make your own decision. The problem with the research is that there is always a counter research to the research and one research may say one thing and another research may say another....... I think the best diet is just one that stays away from processed foods and I think that most would agree with me there. That's where the second part comes in. And yeah i think we all agree on that. What if one person thinks that fat is a clogging substance and another thinks that it isn't and there are articles (there really are) scientific articles at that, that show both sides of the same coin. That's where critical thinking comes in, as he said. Are you just here to try to start an argument? You seem confident enough in your own knowledge to not need the help of others posting here. You don't get it. Critical thinking can be applied to both sides of the coin. A prime example, those that follow the low carb high fat diet say that fat is very good for you and have scientific data to back it up. Those that follow the high carb low fat diet say that fat clogs you up and have scientific data to back it up. Who are we to judge people that have spent years and years researching this stuff and going through it all to figure out whos right and who's wrong? If there was a clear cut answer there wouldn't be all of these different diets, the different subsidiary's of these diets, and scientific research supporting all of the different diets. Critical thinking does not help in this situation.
All studies are not carried out equally. If it's a legitimate one you will be able to see who did it and how it was carried out.
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On November 13 2013 15:31 ieatkids5 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2013 13:18 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:On November 13 2013 13:00 decafchicken wrote:On November 13 2013 12:09 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:On November 13 2013 11:53 zatic wrote:
Great, nobody wants to fight for a change. Move along people. I agree but I must say that I do respect the Paleo diet and those looking for the "perfect" diet. I'm not even sure of what the perfect diet is and you have all of these so called "MD's" saying one thing and another "MD" saying the total opposite. One thing that I do know is that any diet that incorporates unprocessed food is going to be mountains better than than the SAD diet. Heck,maybe the vegan, paleo, and other unprocessed food diets are just as good or close to as good as each other. Personally I feel as though meat is pretty important but I stick with fish and still have a phobia against eating foods high in cholesterol because who knows who's right or wrong about whether it causes heart disease? With that said, I respect everyone's diet and am not against "killing" animals to eat meat. Well there's plenty of research out there, use your critical thinking skills and make your own decision. The problem with the research is that there is always a counter research to the research and one research may say one thing and another research may say another....... if you actually read the research itself and the details of the study/experiment, you'll find that not all research carries the same weight. some studies are shitty, some are sound. unfortunately, most news sites, blogs, and other media outlets don't differentiate between good and bad studies, and just report on some crazy new finding like "X causes Y," when actually, the study suggested "in certain populations that tend to be Z, we saw a correlation between X and W, which may also point to increased occurrences of Y." on the other hand, you'll also find really well done research that has a large sample, is replicable, and is a tightly controlled experiment where data from a control group is compared to that of an experimental group (compare that to an observational study, from which you can only draw correlation, not causation). if you really do want to find the optimal diet, i suggest you do this.
Thank you, this is what I meant. I just didn't want to write it all out. Also note in studies that are testing for correlation the two results are either 'confirm' or 'fail to confirm' instead of a solid yes/no. When testing for a correlation that doesn't exist, it isn't uncommon to have results that indicate both sides of the argument, and it is the job of the expiriment to have adjust for such occurances via propper test groups, sample variety, etc. I'm not a research scientist so I don't know the exact methodology which is most optimal but those are some of the basics.
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On November 13 2013 14:51 Mstring wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2013 12:09 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:
Personally I feel as though meat is pretty important but I stick with fish Show nested quote +On November 13 2013 10:12 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:
I'd rather not waste my time with people thinking that eating dead meat is good for you If eating "dead meat" is no good for you why do you want to eat fish? If you don't buy into certain cholesterol theories why are you buying into certain protein theories? Not trying to be combative I'm just extremely confused by your statements. - I've tried many diets based on ideology and other people's conclusions (conclusions and data are different beasts) and they always failed me. The only thing that works is taking everything I read on board (and observing what others are doing and the results they're getting) but ultimately following my intuition and listening to my own body rather than letting the world tell me what 'should' do this or that. I'll draw my own conclusions from the data thanks.
I eat my fish raw as fresh as possible.
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Okay so who lives longer disregarding genetics and chance of death from a car accident or other common ways to die?
The person that eats Paleo or the person that eats Vegan and replaces the meat with more vegetables, fruits, & nuts and also supplements to get their essential oils and other vitamins?
What has more nutritional value in it? Vegetables/fruits or meat?
Also, the last time that I check The China Study is the largest study showcasing that eating meat might not be as good as eating more fruits/vegetables/nuts.
It also has been refuted and counter refuted.
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On a kind of similar but separate note, what do you guys think in general about a bulking diet of the following:
Various fruits and vegetables
Whole Grain Pasta
Equal parts red meat/Chicken/Fish (no sauce)
Around half a gallon of milk (skim) a day
My sports season is coming to an end soon and I'm looking to put on as much lean weight I can in the offseason. Lifting-wise I'm pretty sure I am solid other than some mobility stuff that I will try to find out, but I'm in the dark about nutrition. I think it's wise to cut out processed foods completely, but other than that, I'm not sure how to bulk clean. Could anyone help me out?
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On November 14 2013 08:39 autoexec wrote:
On a kind of similar but separate note, what do you guys think in general about a bulking diet of the following:
Various fruits and vegetables
Whole Grain Pasta
Equal parts red meat/Chicken/Fish (no sauce)
Around half a gallon of milk (skim) a day
My sports season is coming to an end soon and I'm looking to put on as much lean weight I can in the offseason. Lifting-wise I'm pretty sure I am solid other than some mobility stuff that I will try to find out, but I'm in the dark about nutrition. I think it's wise to cut out processed foods completely, but other than that, I'm not sure how to bulk clean. Could anyone help me out?
I'm not an expert or a nutritionist (obviously) but from what I've read, heard, and seen, most people would recommend staying away from the pastas, milk, and red meat. Pastas are basically empty calories and all of that milk is loaded with cholesterol and saturated fats and it's processed.
Personally, if I were to bulk clean I'd eat a ton of oatmeal with as much sugar on it as I want, plenty of chicken/fish/egg whites on whole grain bread, potatoes, tons of brown rice, almonds & almond spread, and I'd replace drinking regular milk with drinking almond milk and eating as much fruit as possible. This is what I would personally do but don't take it as a recommendation because again, I'm not a nutritionist. This is just something to take into consideration.
Modern processed diary isn't any good from what I've read which is why I said if this was me trying to bulk I'd drink sweetened Almond Milk instead.
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Zurich15366 Posts
On November 14 2013 08:28 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:
Okay so who lives longer disregarding genetics and chance of death from a car accident or other common ways to die?
The person that eats Paleo or the person that eats Vegan and replaces the meat with more vegetables, fruits, & nuts and also supplements to get their essential oils and other vitamins?
What has more nutritional value in it? Vegetables/fruits or meat?
Also, the last time that I check The China Study is the largest study showcasing that eating meat might not be as good as eating more fruits/vegetables/nuts.
It also has been refuted and counter refuted.
Didn't we already establish that you are eating Paleo too like 6 months ago?
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On November 14 2013 09:34 zatic wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2013 08:28 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:
Okay so who lives longer disregarding genetics and chance of death from a car accident or other common ways to die?
The person that eats Paleo or the person that eats Vegan and replaces the meat with more vegetables, fruits, & nuts and also supplements to get their essential oils and other vitamins?
What has more nutritional value in it? Vegetables/fruits or meat?
Also, the last time that I check The China Study is the largest study showcasing that eating meat might not be as good as eating more fruits/vegetables/nuts.
It also has been refuted and counter refuted. Didn't we already establish that you are eating Paleo too like 6 months ago?
I don't follow any fad diets. I only said that to appease the people that follow a set diet to prevent a full blown flame war.
Whether people like it or not Paleo is just a fad diet like the Atkins diet.
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On November 14 2013 09:34 zatic wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2013 08:28 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:
Okay so who lives longer disregarding genetics and chance of death from a car accident or other common ways to die?
The person that eats Paleo or the person that eats Vegan and replaces the meat with more vegetables, fruits, & nuts and also supplements to get their essential oils and other vitamins?
What has more nutritional value in it? Vegetables/fruits or meat?
Also, the last time that I check The China Study is the largest study showcasing that eating meat might not be as good as eating more fruits/vegetables/nuts.
It also has been refuted and counter refuted. Didn't we already establish that you are eating Paleo too like 6 months ago?
If we ignore him maybe he'll go away.
Anyway, I'm slowly bulking atm, gaining roughly a pound a week over the last few weeks. How long should I go for until I start cutting, or more precisely, are there certain triggers I should look for? For example gaining x pounds or being y bodyfat%
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On November 14 2013 05:28 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2013 14:51 Mstring wrote:On November 13 2013 12:09 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:
Personally I feel as though meat is pretty important but I stick with fish On November 13 2013 10:12 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:
I'd rather not waste my time with people thinking that eating dead meat is good for you If eating "dead meat" is no good for you why do you want to eat fish? If you don't buy into certain cholesterol theories why are you buying into certain protein theories? Not trying to be combative I'm just extremely confused by your statements. - I've tried many diets based on ideology and other people's conclusions (conclusions and data are different beasts) and they always failed me. The only thing that works is taking everything I read on board (and observing what others are doing and the results they're getting) but ultimately following my intuition and listening to my own body rather than letting the world tell me what 'should' do this or that. I'll draw my own conclusions from the data thanks. I eat my fish raw as fresh as possible.
I'm not sure how that makes a difference. You said that you'd rather not waste your time with people thinking eating dead meat is good for you... but that's exactly what you are doing... I'm just baffled by your position is all. It's as if there's two opposite people posting on the same account!
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On November 14 2013 10:58 Mstring wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2013 05:28 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:On November 13 2013 14:51 Mstring wrote:On November 13 2013 12:09 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:
Personally I feel as though meat is pretty important but I stick with fish On November 13 2013 10:12 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:
I'd rather not waste my time with people thinking that eating dead meat is good for you If eating "dead meat" is no good for you why do you want to eat fish? If you don't buy into certain cholesterol theories why are you buying into certain protein theories? Not trying to be combative I'm just extremely confused by your statements. - I've tried many diets based on ideology and other people's conclusions (conclusions and data are different beasts) and they always failed me. The only thing that works is taking everything I read on board (and observing what others are doing and the results they're getting) but ultimately following my intuition and listening to my own body rather than letting the world tell me what 'should' do this or that. I'll draw my own conclusions from the data thanks. I eat my fish raw as fresh as possible. I'm not sure how that makes a difference. You said that you'd rather not waste your time with people thinking eating dead meat is good for you... but that's exactly what you are doing... I'm just baffled by your position is all. It's as if there's two opposite people posting on the same account!
I go fresh water fishing and eat my fish while it's still alive. How baffled can you be?
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On November 14 2013 11:06 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2013 10:58 Mstring wrote:On November 14 2013 05:28 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:On November 13 2013 14:51 Mstring wrote:On November 13 2013 12:09 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:
Personally I feel as though meat is pretty important but I stick with fish On November 13 2013 10:12 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:
I'd rather not waste my time with people thinking that eating dead meat is good for you If eating "dead meat" is no good for you why do you want to eat fish? If you don't buy into certain cholesterol theories why are you buying into certain protein theories? Not trying to be combative I'm just extremely confused by your statements. - I've tried many diets based on ideology and other people's conclusions (conclusions and data are different beasts) and they always failed me. The only thing that works is taking everything I read on board (and observing what others are doing and the results they're getting) but ultimately following my intuition and listening to my own body rather than letting the world tell me what 'should' do this or that. I'll draw my own conclusions from the data thanks. I eat my fish raw as fresh as possible. I'm not sure how that makes a difference. You said that you'd rather not waste your time with people thinking eating dead meat is good for you... but that's exactly what you are doing... I'm just baffled by your position is all. It's as if there's two opposite people posting on the same account! I go fresh water fishing and eat my fish while it's still alive. How baffled can you be?
I'm baffled as to what you think the nutritional difference is.
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And i like my steaks so rare i can still hear them mooing. soooo.........?
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The difference is that raw fish is way better for you than this cooked stuff most of you guys are eating. No other animals besides humans cook their food.
Also, someone please answer this question for me.
On November 14 2013 08:28 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:
Okay so who lives longer disregarding genetics and chance of death from a car accident or other common ways to die?
The person that eats Paleo or the person that eats Vegan and replaces the meat with more vegetables, fruits, & nuts and also supplements to get their essential oils and other vitamins?
What has more nutritional value in it? Vegetables/fruits or meat?
Also, the last time that I check The China Study is the largest study showcasing that eating meat might not be as good as eating more fruits/vegetables/nuts.
It also has been refuted and counter refuted.
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On November 14 2013 09:54 Najda wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2013 09:34 zatic wrote:On November 14 2013 08:28 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:
Okay so who lives longer disregarding genetics and chance of death from a car accident or other common ways to die?
The person that eats Paleo or the person that eats Vegan and replaces the meat with more vegetables, fruits, & nuts and also supplements to get their essential oils and other vitamins?
What has more nutritional value in it? Vegetables/fruits or meat?
Also, the last time that I check The China Study is the largest study showcasing that eating meat might not be as good as eating more fruits/vegetables/nuts.
It also has been refuted and counter refuted. Didn't we already establish that you are eating Paleo too like 6 months ago? If we ignore him maybe he'll go away. Anyway, I'm slowly bulking atm, gaining roughly a pound a week over the last few weeks. How long should I go for until I start cutting, or more precisely, are there certain triggers I should look for? For example gaining x pounds or being y bodyfat%
I think the conventional wisdom is aim to keep gaining 0.5-1.0 pounds per week, and then you cut whenever you feel the time is right (getting chubbier than you like or whatevs) if you want a hard number, a lot of people say they start bulking when they hit ~12% bodyfat. If you stay lean and keep adding weight then more power to you 
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On November 14 2013 13:11 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:
The difference is that raw fish is way better for you than this cooked stuff most of you guys are eating. No other animals besides humans cook their food.
What's the difference between eating the fish while it's still flapping and waiting a minute, an hour, a day? When you said "dead meat" earlier did you mean cooked meat?
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EPT
