So here is what I think, and I don't have any studies for it or anything.
Edit: I'm basing experience off bodybuilding programs mostly, with a little bit of strength knowledge from Starting Strength.
2x or 3x frequency per week is ideal for the amount of times you should hit a muscle group. Most people prefer to hit them directly and indirectly this way. For example, you might train your biceps indirectly by doing chin ups, and then later in the week hit them directly doing curls. I prefer this method for the small muscle groups such as biceps, triceps, (somewhat) shoulders, and I do it for calves as well.
However for the larger muscle groups, or ones that are used to constant stress (including the core, but except for calves), then I don't mind hitting them directly twice a week or more. This includes the back and legs. Most people will squat 3x+ a week. In fact, here is an excellent article on a training system where they will squat/deadlift/olympic lift/ect every day of the week: Bulgarian style training.
In my opinion, a 1x a week frequency is just dumb (on most lifts, like a lot of people have said deadlifting more than once a week is intense lol) and not only are you selling yourself short, you simply won't get the results you probably want.
Also, I'm not sure if this is true. I remember reading it somewhere but hopefully someone can confirm/debunk it. + Show Spoiler +
Say you squat Monday and then Wednesday. The muscle fibers that are still damaged (presumably that are beyond repaired at this point) will not be used, but you will rather recruit new muscle fibers to do the job)
It isn't so much about how much rest you give it, it is about smart programming. Most bodybuilding programs recommend a push/pull/leg setup. Might look something like this:
Day 1 Horizontal push/pull (Meaning your range of motion should be horizontal) Calves Abs
Day 2 Legs with quad dominant Hamstring accessory Biceps
Day 3 Vertical push/pull Calves Abs
Day 4 Hamstring Dominate Quad Accessory Triceps
... This is the frequency I use and sure, it is great and all, but it something only after you have your core lifts up there and your conditioning higher (I made this mistake coming into it I think) that you can undertake it. Do Starting Strength for 6+ months and then move on to another program like this. Like I've said before, any worth while program will have some form of the core lifts in them regardless.
Olympic/Strength training is a bit different in that they would worry about accessories to bring up weaknesses, not to achieve hypertrophy? I plan on getting off of this body building program around the fall/winter and take on a more strength/olympic oriented program (Actually, I'll probably use the program I posted earlier in the link except a slight moderation to it) and then I'll let you know for sure.
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Now that that is over, I've realized how shitty my sleep is for some reason.
Last night it went like this: Went to bed around 11, 11:30. Woke up at 2:20 (ALWAYS wake up around 2), went back to bed, woke up at 5. Eventually fell back asleep only to wake up at 6:30. I just said fuck it after that and got up. I don't understannnd this damn sleeping pattern lol I used to sleep relatively easy.
On August 11 2011 19:03 zatic wrote: OK so I am having this problem for a while now which basically destroys all my progress:
For like 3 to 4 weeks, whenever I put just moderate weights on, I am getting this pain in my arms. So after the first few reps my arms start to hurt, and it only gets worse the more I use them. At first I thought this was due to incorrect squatting technique, but it was just that squats are my first excersize, and switching them to last didn't do anything, quite the opposite.
It's not soreness, it's just pain that is most intense around the elbow, but extends over my entire arm deep into the shoulder. It is really intense for 1-2 hours after workout then slowly wears off, but still remains for about 2-3 days.
It gets worse the more I stress my arms, to the point that, if I just ignore it and continue my workout, I am in such intense pain after that I can barely drive home because steering is so painful.
So far I tried sleeping more (up to 10 hours before and after workout day), no effect. I eat better than ever in my life. Then I stopped all working out for over a week until all traces of pain were gone. Felt fantastic this week and was super pumped to continue working out. But just after the first work set of squats the pain was back, and was again so bad after 1 set of bench that I had to stop.
It's not only lifting but any strong physical stress. Same pain was there after a few dances on my sister's wedding. This is really really frustrating.
You could try switching to a thumbless grip if you think squats are the problem. This can make sure the back is holding the weight rather than the arms trying to. Switching grips can take a bit to get used to.
Slowly regaining myself. 150kg deadlift today for 4 reps. But what I am actually happy about is my recovery, I can now finish an exercise sit down have a drink of water and 4-5 min later I'm good as new.
I'm taking a pre-work out at the moment just for the mental boost, jack3d or something, it doesn't give you the body pump or nausea that no.xplode would, it seems to be in a different ratio as in a ton of beta-alanine instead of arginine. I don't think this is what's causing the mental alertness though. For anyone who has ever taken coke or speed it's the same mental alertness with the increased heart rate, but obviously a lot more mild and no real release of serotonin or dopamine but you still feel like you're pinging and can take on the world. Take too much and you want to scratch your face off though...
I don't know if I'd recommend it though, I already suffer a hyperactive personality and while on this stuff I get extremely ADD and can't really concentrate on anything in particular for any length of time.
Ok this is going to be a beginner's post so please bear with me.
Matoo Age: 27 || Height: 6'2" - 188 cm || Weight: 170 lbs - 77 kg
Context: I haven't done any exercise in the past 10 yrs. Two weeks ago I decided to get in better shape and did some exercise, mostly pull-ups, push-ups, sit-ups and such. I capped out at a ridiculously low amount of reps (around 3 pulls-ups, 10 push-ups, and 20 sit-ups). Then my body ached for half a week. I bought a 15 lbs dumbbell and continued training for about 30 min everyday.
2 weeks later I felt like ok I like this and I want to continue. So I started documentating myself, including spending about 5 hrs reading through the links in the OP. And yeah I was doing it all wrong of course. Overstraining the shoulder and elbow, doing a shitton of reps of biceps curls, etc.
That's fine. It's not like I was expecting to get it right without any prior knowledge anyway. But now that I know that I want to continue then I should do it right.
Facts: - I'd like to keep exercizing at home. - I already have a pullup bar, a 15 lb dumbbell, and a basic bench (see picture). - Barbells looks like the best thing out there and I could buy one. However my right knee is fucked; if I do some running, about 10 minutes in it will start hurting like hell and then it'll take days for the pain to disappear. So I'm really not hot for any squat- or deadlift-based workouts, since they will require me to flex/unflex my knee a lot, with added weight on top of it. - I can definitely buy a pair of rings.
With all of that taken into account, what would you think about doing: - Dumbbell bench presses (SS says it's as good as barbell ones) - Dumbbell presses - Chin-ups (adding weight once I reach 12+ reps) - Ring exercises: Now I'm a bit lost. There's so many. What would be the best ring exercises that I could do to train the remaining muscles that haven't been covered by the previous exercises (since I probably can't do squats or deadlifts, sadly).
I was also thinking about: - Handstand push-ups: they look both very useful and fun as hell, especially if I manage to do them freestanding after a while, and I could buy a mat. But aren't they redundant with dumbbell presses? - Roman chair exercises (cheap!): useful according to SS, but aren't abs covered by ring exercises already?
I'd also incorporate stretching several times a day for flexibility (mine is terrible), and swimming for about 30 min every day for cardio/endurance. On the days that I workout, I would do stretching - workout - swimming - stretching.
Regarding nutrition: I'm French so bread has been my life so far. However I'm living in the US now so it's a good occasion to try a grainless paleo diet (despite my absolute love for good burgers). I'll keep at it for the next two months and see if I feel healthier or not.
Anyway I'd like to have input regarding the set of exercises I could incorporate in my workout (taking into account my bad knee). Once I know what exercises I do I'll be able to make it to the next step and get a precise workout build running with weight/set/reps/goals etc.
First thing is first.
Need to fix the knee injury. Whether going to a doctor if rest isn't helping or whatever.
After that you need some goals.... what are you trying to accomplish?
"getting fit" et al are not good goals..
Do you want to improve body comp? If so, how much? Do you want to gain strength? if so in what? how many reps? what weight? what skills?
Randomly throwing somethign together with no hint of progression is pretty much useless and whne you just go do things randomly like you did it can easily lead to overuse injuries.
On August 11 2011 19:03 zatic wrote: OK so I am having this problem for a while now which basically destroys all my progress:
For like 3 to 4 weeks, whenever I put just moderate weights on, I am getting this pain in my arms. So after the first few reps my arms start to hurt, and it only gets worse the more I use them. At first I thought this was due to incorrect squatting technique, but it was just that squats are my first excersize, and switching them to last didn't do anything, quite the opposite.
It's not soreness, it's just pain that is most intense around the elbow, but extends over my entire arm deep into the shoulder. It is really intense for 1-2 hours after workout then slowly wears off, but still remains for about 2-3 days.
It gets worse the more I stress my arms, to the point that, if I just ignore it and continue my workout, I am in such intense pain after that I can barely drive home because steering is so painful.
So far I tried sleeping more (up to 10 hours before and after workout day), no effect. I eat better than ever in my life. Then I stopped all working out for over a week until all traces of pain were gone. Felt fantastic this week and was super pumped to continue working out. But just after the first work set of squats the pain was back, and was again so bad after 1 set of bench that I had to stop.
It's not only lifting but any strong physical stress. Same pain was there after a few dances on my sister's wedding. This is really really frustrating.
Would need to see a vid of lifts to see if something is wrong.
Otherwise, you need to get that checked out by a doc or physical therapist.
Sounds like it could be something like thoracic outlet syndrome or some type of impingement... but again... would need to see technique and actually examine you for that.
Best bet is to get it checked by ortho or physical therapist I think...
I am not going to debate Starting Strength vs splits for new people again.
If people think they do better on whatever else isolation they want to do then go for it.
Starting Strength as a base (3x a week full body) is one of the most efficient programs for adding muscle mass and strength out there (along with a couple others like StrongLifts 5x5). That's all there is to it.
It's up for people out there to choose what they want to do
On August 10 2011 12:48 thedeadhaji wrote: failed 245lb bench for 3rd time, going to reset. (but 215lb during warmup was NP so... =\)
Also Snatched up to 100lbs today. So fun!
An extremely easy way to get your max to increase is to do a powerlifitng training method called 5 by 5's. You essentially do five sets of five reps with a weight you should have to push extremely hard to get five reps with. Preferably you would need to be working so hard, that at the end of your third set you may need a spot. This same training method can be used towards any major lift.
And for your warmup, if you're going for a new max, I wouldn't recommend starting at 215. A warmup should either be just the bar, or at the most 135. You may not feel like 215 was that hard, but you're using your muscles energy (ATP) to push that weight, while lowing your bodies natural glycogen stores, which in turn is going to make a weight you should be able to do almost impossible.
Keep up the good work! :D
I don't think Haji just started cold doing 215 and then moved on to 235 (or whatever the 1rm was for that day).
I quite often work towards 1RM and I feel that spending time on mobility and very light weights at the beginning of the session set make or break the lift later. Just having supple joints and plenty of bloodflow into the targeting muscles is invaluable.
Then after that I'd work upwards and keeping the reps relatively low (1-5 reps) and lowering the reps as the weight goes up.
Example, shooting for a 100kg/225lb 1RM on the bench:
bar x 15-15 (add sets if it feels needed) 40kg x 10-8 50kg x 5-5 60kg x 5-5 70kg x 3-3 80kg x 2 90kg x 1 100kg 1
The additional sets with low weights and low reps are to insure I have the proper tuck and arch ready for the heavier sets. This "scheme" is never written in stone though. I always go by feel, feeling out if I need more warmup (add in a set of few reps that isn't draining).
I think this is what I did that day for bench: 45lbs x 5 95lbs x 5-5-5 135lbs x 5-5-5 185lbs x 5-5 215lbs x 5 245lbs x 3-1
On August 11 2011 08:44 AoN.DimSum wrote: welcome back anabolic!
Man... I went on a losing streak on SC2 last night. I didn't lose too many games, but the ones I lost were due to dumb mistakes. I got mad, and went over to do some bench presses.
I really think that releasing that rage through exercising is pretty exhilarating but I guess you need to keep your under control at the same time. So I was laying there bench pressing and fuming with anger while thinking about the games I just played.
Typically I just do 5 - 6 reps, but that night I went to 7 for each set, and on my third set my arms gave =_=. I bench alone so I immediately thought about the roll of shame. I just didn't know that it would hurt my belly as I rolled it down, man it was an unpleasant experience.
During a party last week I kind of twisted my ankle a bit, so I haven't been able to do my HIIT in sprinting. It's been a week and I can walk easily now, but I still feel sharp pain when I move my ankle at certain angles. Do any of you guys know how long it should take for a minor ankle injury to heal? I mean I can walk now so it shouldn't be that bad.
anyone ever had balance problems while doing the OHP? had to reset cause at 42kg my legs were shaking and I almost felt like falling back, even tho I still had strength in my arms/shoulders
also, how wide is the grip you guys use to raise the bar overhead?
On August 10 2011 12:48 thedeadhaji wrote: failed 245lb bench for 3rd time, going to reset. (but 215lb during warmup was NP so... =\)
Also Snatched up to 100lbs today. So fun!
An extremely easy way to get your max to increase is to do a powerlifitng training method called 5 by 5's. You essentially do five sets of five reps with a weight you should have to push extremely hard to get five reps with. Preferably you would need to be working so hard, that at the end of your third set you may need a spot. This same training method can be used towards any major lift.
And for your warmup, if you're going for a new max, I wouldn't recommend starting at 215. A warmup should either be just the bar, or at the most 135. You may not feel like 215 was that hard, but you're using your muscles energy (ATP) to push that weight, while lowing your bodies natural glycogen stores, which in turn is going to make a weight you should be able to do almost impossible.
Keep up the good work! :D
I don't think Haji just started cold doing 215 and then moved on to 235 (or whatever the 1rm was for that day).
I quite often work towards 1RM and I feel that spending time on mobility and very light weights at the beginning of the session set make or break the lift later. Just having supple joints and plenty of bloodflow into the targeting muscles is invaluable.
Then after that I'd work upwards and keeping the reps relatively low (1-5 reps) and lowering the reps as the weight goes up.
Example, shooting for a 100kg/225lb 1RM on the bench:
bar x 15-15 (add sets if it feels needed) 40kg x 10-8 50kg x 5-5 60kg x 5-5 70kg x 3-3 80kg x 2 90kg x 1 100kg 1
The additional sets with low weights and low reps are to insure I have the proper tuck and arch ready for the heavier sets. This "scheme" is never written in stone though. I always go by feel, feeling out if I need more warmup (add in a set of few reps that isn't draining).
I think this is what I did that day for bench: 45lbs x 5 95lbs x 5-5-5 135lbs x 5-5-5 185lbs x 5-5 215lbs x 5 245lbs x 3-1
On August 11 2011 08:44 AoN.DimSum wrote: welcome back anabolic!
I would've done 3 reps on the 215 and maybe 1 rep with 225 before moving on to 245. But that is just a personal preference.
@Snuggles:
I think this sport is one of the few you can just rage infinetly much as long as your technique is under control. And the roll of shame is painful so you don't ever make it happen again
@Tulius:
Having a slightly wider than shoulder with stance, flexing your glutes and core makes my OHP much more stable. My gripping I believe is maybe a little wider than my shoulders. Also flex your upper back.
OH yea, upper back flexing is something I noticed last week while OHP'ing that helped a lot
As for bench warmup, I used to do something like that but felt like doing a proper 5 reps for every warmup set get the full range of motion + volume (since I basically knew that I couldnt get a full range @ 245lbs )
First time in about 4 months that I'll be Incline benching today lol.
I went onto the gym knowing that I had to take it easy, and stuff, but I didn't so yeah RAUL!.
2x5 80kg Front Squat (felt super light omfg) 1x5 90kg Front Squat (wanted to end in a big way ?) Neutral Grip PullUp 10-6-6 1x5 deadlift 130kg. 1x1 deadlift 140kg. I pulled the bar, and grabbed it for as long as I could to improve my grip. Felt awesome, and really light. Plus a girl loves to watch me do Front Squat and Deadlift. "go figure" .
Epic? Yes. Awesome? Even More!
As always love to hear from you guys! .
Edit: I'd like to also have a proper technique video on the OHS. I'd like to start doing those too.
Thx.
edit2: Also I'd like to point out taht RICEing my ankles has been working amazingly. The pain has reduced a lot from what it started, and I'm feeling more and more comfortable. .
On August 12 2011 00:24 decafchicken wrote: hold the bar over your head then squat...if you do it wrong you'll probably fall over lol. nice lifts ragefunkie
Should I hold it like I was Pressing? or should I use a wider grip?
On August 12 2011 00:24 decafchicken wrote: hold the bar over your head then squat...if you do it wrong you'll probably fall over lol. nice lifts ragefunkie
Should I hold it like I was Pressing? or should I use a wider grip?
I'd do them wider. Just try and find out what you think is more comfortable.
Good lifting as always! Always good to impress the ladies ^^
EPT
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