My favorite of the Three Flavors of Starting Strength is probably Wichita Falls. It provides a lot of upper body strength compared to the other two programs, and to get an aesthetic body, I think it's superior to the other two. Take, for example, Zach, a guy who started at 160 pounds and then was taken to 240 pounds by the original SS program and drinking a gallon of milk a day: + Show Spoiler +
This is amazing progress. No, Zach doesn't have a six pack, and yes, his body fat is around 20-22%, but he was capable of squatting 345x5x5 at this point in his training with terrible strength genetics.
However ... his arms aren't that big. While he was benching like 240x5x5 at this point, he sure as hell didn't look like it. Bench press, OHP, power clean, squat, and DL are all amazing exercises, but they won't give you big guns if that's what you're aiming for.
This is why I went for the Wichita Falls program: chin ups for dem biceps and pull ups for dem lats. I managed to finish SS with good strength and size gains and 15% body fat, and the only lift that lagged behind was my squat... mainly because I'm 6'4 .
Thanks for the input guys. I really fancy the Wichita Falls program. The only modifier I'll add to that is doing powercleans on Fridays. And MAYBE I'll move deadlifts on mondays and move chin-ups on wednesday.
Monday Squat 3x5 Bench press/press 3x5 (alternating) Chin-ups: 3 sets to failure or add weight if completing more than 15 reps
Friday Squat 3x5 Bench press/press 3x5 (alternating) Power Cleans 5x3 Pull-ups: 3 sets to failure or add weight if completing more than 15 reps (I can barely do three atm...)
Seems good to me. I might even do pullups twice a week instead. Really don't care for biceps, the first 3 things you really notice when you're categorizing someone as fir or unfit are their traps, lats, and shoulders.
On March 22 2011 16:20 RosaParksStoleMySeat wrote: My favorite of the Three Flavors of Starting Strength is probably Wichita Falls. It provides a lot of upper body strength compared to the other two programs, and to get an aesthetic body, I think it's superior to the other two. Take, for example, Zach, a guy who started at 160 pounds and then was taken to 240 pounds by the original SS program and drinking a gallon of milk a day: + Show Spoiler +
This is amazing progress. No, Zach doesn't have a six pack, and yes, his body fat is around 20-22%, but he was capable of squatting 345x5x5 at this point in his training with terrible strength genetics.
However ... his arms aren't that big. While he was benching like 240x5x5 at this point, he sure as hell didn't look like it. Bench press, OHP, power clean, squat, and DL are all amazing exercises, but they won't give you big guns if that's what you're aiming for.
This is why I went for the Wichita Falls program: chin ups for dem biceps and pull ups for dem lats. I managed to finish SS with good strength and size gains and 15% body fat, and the only lift that lagged behind was my squat... mainly because I'm 6'4 .
Big traps + thick back > arms ^_^ Dudes don't fuck with you and bitches know you're alphadog
On March 22 2011 16:28 Warrior Madness wrote: Thanks for the input guys. I really fancy the Wichita Falls program. The only modifier I'll add to that is doing powercleans on Fridays. And MAYBE I'll move deadlifts on mondays and move chin-ups on wednesday.
Monday Squat 3x5 Bench press/press 3x5 (alternating) Chin-ups: 3 sets to failure or add weight if completing more than 15 reps
Friday Squat 3x5 Bench press/press 3x5 (alternating) Power Cleans 5x3 Pull-ups: 3 sets to failure or add weight if completing more than 15 reps (I can barely do three atm...)
Seems good to me. I might even do pullups twice a week instead. Really don't care for biceps, the first 3 things you really notice when you're categorizing someone as fir or unfit are their traps, lats, and shoulders.
On March 22 2011 16:20 RosaParksStoleMySeat wrote: My favorite of the Three Flavors of Starting Strength is probably Wichita Falls. It provides a lot of upper body strength compared to the other two programs, and to get an aesthetic body, I think it's superior to the other two. Take, for example, Zach, a guy who started at 160 pounds and then was taken to 240 pounds by the original SS program and drinking a gallon of milk a day: + Show Spoiler +
This is amazing progress. No, Zach doesn't have a six pack, and yes, his body fat is around 20-22%, but he was capable of squatting 345x5x5 at this point in his training with terrible strength genetics.
However ... his arms aren't that big. While he was benching like 240x5x5 at this point, he sure as hell didn't look like it. Bench press, OHP, power clean, squat, and DL are all amazing exercises, but they won't give you big guns if that's what you're aiming for.
This is why I went for the Wichita Falls program: chin ups for dem biceps and pull ups for dem lats. I managed to finish SS with good strength and size gains and 15% body fat, and the only lift that lagged behind was my squat... mainly because I'm 6'4 .
Big traps + thick back > arms ^_^ Dudes don't fuck with you and bitches know you're alphadog
Haha, why not have both? That's what I go for ^_~.
Edit: Forgot to mention that I'm now eating 3500-4000 clean calories every day until I stall on Madcow's, and then I'll pick up some lame bodybuilding split to cut to 10% body fat. I think I can manage 12-14 weeks with this diet/programming, and that could lead to +25kg on all of my lifts if everything goes as planned. I'm hoping to put another 8-12kg on my body weight. Then it'll be time to cut for the second half of summer ;D.
On March 22 2011 17:13 RosaParksStoleMySeat wrote: I'll quote Bill Starr on this: Don't fuck with the program.
I actually did the original SS program for 7 months before I got injured. I really don't see how adding powercleans on friday for the Wichita Falls Novice Program will have any really adverse effects on my progress. In fact I'd end up doing more power cleans, deadlifts and pullups than the Wunsler Beginner Program . Only real downside I see is not being able to do power cleans/deadlifts three days a week. I'd only be doing only half as much cleans and deadlifts as the original program. I actually might just end up doing that plus one day of pull ups.
Also what are you eating? I'm assuming you're on a clean paleo diet by now, what does 4k calories consist of? You mind snapping one of your fitday days?
On March 22 2011 17:13 RosaParksStoleMySeat wrote: I'll quote Bill Starr on this: Don't fuck with the program.
I actually did the original SS program for 7 months before I got injured. I really don't see how adding powercleans on friday for the Wichita Falls Novice Program will have any really adverse effects on my progress. In fact I'd end up doing more power cleans, deadlifts and pullups than the Wunsler Beginner Program . Only real downside I see is not being able to do power cleans/deadlifts three days a week. I'd only be doing only half as much cleans and deadlifts as the original program. I actually might just end up doing that plus one day of pull ups.
the point is, there is a reason why each of those programs looks the way it does. its not just some exercises packed together randomly.
you dont have the experience to judge if adding/removing/substituting exercises will have adverse effects on the program. the people who came up with the programs do. so it might be best to trust their judgement
Yeah I get that but I've already done some of the program and I also added back extensions and pullups to the original program almost immediately (Bah I guess I answered my own question, will probably just repeat pretty much the original A&B just like before). I progressed pretty normally (But then I also had a trainer back then). Why specfically would it be bad to add 3x10 chinups on the friday of his original A&B program? I probably will avoid back extensions and any other extra exercises (Except for some ab exercises) for a long while this time.
On March 22 2011 17:13 RosaParksStoleMySeat wrote: I'll quote Bill Starr on this: Don't fuck with the program.
I actually did the original SS program for 7 months before I got injured. I really don't see how adding powercleans on friday for the Wichita Falls Novice Program will have any really adverse effects on my progress. In fact I'd end up doing more power cleans, deadlifts and pullups than the Wunsler Beginner Program . Only real downside I see is not being able to do power cleans/deadlifts three days a week. I'd only be doing only half as much cleans and deadlifts as the original program. I actually might just end up doing that plus one day of pull ups.
Also what are you eating? I'm assuming you're on a clean paleo diet by now, what does 4k calories consist of? You mind snapping one of your fitday days?
I'm more worried about you throwing unnecessary volume on top of the program. Right now with Madcow's I'm practicing snatches and cleans but only with very light weight (as in bar only or maybe bar+15kg on each side to practice from the starting position). Generally if you want to throw on some extra work it should be assistance work like ab work, dips, or hyperextensions ... not another major compound lift. One day with bench/press, squat, power clean, and three sets of pull ups seems like quite a bit of volume to me.
There is no way I'd be able to stick to a paleo diet and get in 3500-4000 calories/day. As you know, foods rich in protein and fat are the most satiable foods--if you eat them, your appetite is suppressed for a long time after. Tonight I had to practically forcefeed myself the second half of the third chicken breast I ate (my first was eaten at lunch alone and the second and third were thrown into a salad at dinner). Here is my fitday for Monday (picture one) and today (picture two):
As you can see, I'm eating some stuff that wouldn't exactly be counted as paleo food. It's my way of getting to a certain calorie count. Also, eggs are really helpful .
On March 22 2011 17:13 RosaParksStoleMySeat wrote: I'll quote Bill Starr on this: Don't fuck with the program.
I actually did the original SS program for 7 months before I got injured. I really don't see how adding powercleans on friday for the Wichita Falls Novice Program will have any really adverse effects on my progress. In fact I'd end up doing more power cleans, deadlifts and pullups than the Wunsler Beginner Program . Only real downside I see is not being able to do power cleans/deadlifts three days a week. I'd only be doing only half as much cleans and deadlifts as the original program. I actually might just end up doing that plus one day of pull ups.
Also what are you eating? I'm assuming you're on a clean paleo diet by now, what does 4k calories consist of? You mind snapping one of your fitday days?
There is no way I'd be able to stick to a paleo diet and get in 3500-4000 calories/day. As you know, foods rich in protein and fat are the most satiable foods--if you eat them, your appetite is suppressed for a long time after. Tonight I had to practically forcefeed myself the second half of the third chicken breast I ate (my first was eaten at lunch alone and the second and third were thrown into a salad at dinner). Here is my fitday for Monday (picture one) and today (picture two):
As you can see, I'm eating some stuff that wouldn't exactly be counted as paleo food. It's my way of getting to a certain calorie count. Also, eggs are really helpful .
I once read a blog of Robb Wolf's where he recanted his experience of gaining 15+ pounds of muscle eating between 3000-4000 calories of mostly paleo a day. Don't ask me what he ate. Probably mostly fat.
I actually thought about trying SS again on a paleo strict diet but the way things are going I'm going to end up doing the exact same thing I did before, with the exact same diet. I did the whole GOMAD thing and everything. I think I've been super sore lately (Much sorer than I remember ever being) because I probably haven't been eating enough or getting enough protein. Overshooting with a 3k+ caloric diet, milk included, probably ensures that you recover as quickly as you can allowing you to make gains as quickly the program intends you to. After three months or whatever you can start to cut out all that milk. Maybe start experimenting with paleo and IMF. I thought it'd be possible to gain a lot of muscle mass and cut fat at the same time by going on a strict paleo diet but I'm not so sure anymore. I'm gonna start eating a whole lot more and drinking milk, and I'll see how that affects my recovery (I'll still try to stick mostly to paleo though but I'll eat 3k+ calories).
Went to the gym today - it's been a week and a half. Felt good just to be there, but it was a VERY disappointing workout. I didn't get to see that orthopedic doc over vacation, and while my knees were fine when I was sitting in a chair at home all day, now that I have to walk to class and etc. They're killing me again. My hamstrings are also tight as all hell, so that's bothering me too. I think this might have happened because of weak hamstrings in general. I'll get back to stretching them, try to build them up, and see if that helps me out any.
I can handle walking to class, it's not THAT painful, but I can't squat, deadlift, or power clean. I'm sure I won't hold up to it - particularly the squats. I'm quite positive I would be on crutches the next few days if I were to try squats. Unfortunately, I'm used to doing them every workout, and no matter how hard I blast my upper body, It's just not a satisfying workout without the legs. I'm missing half the muscles in my body, the largest muscles in my body... I just have so much ENERGY left over regardless of the fact that my chest/back/shoulders actually can't lift any more. Didn't even break a sweat. I know how great squats and deads and powercleans are for you, but as this is an extreme case, I need help. What are some alternative exercises I can do for the legs that might be easier on my knees? Especially hamstring/glute focused lifts, as I'm willing to bet that's at least half the cause of this injury.
also squatted for the first time in probably 2-3 weeks. Got 5x315 3x365 2x405 1x425 Failed 3rd rep on 405 but got 425 really easy. Got some shoulder work in too grrr i just want the pain in my right shoulder to be gone T_T It doesnt really affect me once i get warmed up but its still a pain in the ass when im not warmed up.
Maybe I should go do the Wichita Falls program instead. I can't out figure how to Power Cleans safely and with proper weight on my own, so it's rather frustrating.
Today I found the 3rd person in my gym who knows how to squat properly, and he was doing fronts squats to boot. He also commented that it was nice seeing someone else who knew how to squat properly too
Got 215x3x5 squats. Starting to feel it... probably going to go down to 5lbs per workout after breaking 225 thursday.
175x3x5 bench easy
210x5 deadlift easy, but I'm going to start needing some chalk. I'm also doing the ninja take-off-shoes-right-before-doing-the-set Also, how do you guys deal with mixed-grip deadlifts? I'm currently doing all warmup sets double overhand, then on the work set switching which hand is supine every workout.
I seem to have constant bruising on my shins/top of knee from deadlifts and powercleans... feels awesome. Might become a problem when I start hitting my limits though.
On March 23 2011 13:42 RosaParksStoleMySeat wrote: How the hell am I going to keep eating 4k calories a day without force feeding myself -_-.
Maybe you should try paleo. According to Mark Ripptoe you eat about 5k calories if you're not doing paleo and about 3.5k if you are (If you're not on dairy). Or you could just force feed yourself.
Right now I'm just trying to focus on how to best increase performance and recovery and how a paleo diet might fit into that. Gonna be doing some research for the next couple of weeks but until then I'll just stick to a paleo-ish diet + GOMAD.
Also found a Mark Ripptoe program where he adds chinups to his original A & B program. But I'll probably stick to the original at least for a little while.
On March 23 2011 08:51 Advocado wrote: Maybe I should go do the Wichita Falls program instead. I can't out figure how to Power Cleans safely and with proper weight on my own, so it's rather frustrating.
You can do it. Quit making excuses. I'm not saying its going to be easy, your going to have to put in time, sweat, and probably some blood. But everyone can learn how to powerclean. 4 months ago i couldn't do an over squat with 45 pounds and now i can snatch 5 times that.
On March 23 2011 13:42 RosaParksStoleMySeat wrote: How the hell am I going to keep eating 4k calories a day without force feeding myself -_-.
...force feed yourself then? I'm a fan of "chug three glasses of milk and eat a pound of chicken so fast your body doesnt know its full"
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