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United States15536 Posts
On February 25 2014 01:19 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2014 01:11 AsmodeusXI wrote:On February 25 2014 01:10 wei2coolman wrote:On February 25 2014 01:03 AsmodeusXI wrote:
Question: what would do y'all think it would take to make a successful PC bang/modern arcade in the US? What would make you want to go to something like that or what would've interested you as a kid for something like that? Nothing realistically. The prices would have to be so low to justify it, that you would lose money doing so. That's partially the idea. The thought is making this as a non-profit kind of thing with something like a low-ish monthly subscription for entry. Of course, I don't want to starve to death, but this is just an idea bouncing around in my head anyways. There's a big difference between not-for-profit and breaking even. A non-profit business is absolutely allowed to make a profit, as long as the primary objective (read: mission statement) is not to make money. That's how schools are able to get away with it. What you seem to be describing is a business that struggles to stay afloat. As your financial manager, I strongly suggest you aim at making a profit. edit: if you want it to be a charity type thing...how would you spin it so that your main objective isn't to make money? (not criticizing, truly curious)
My hope for it would be a place that people of all walks of life could come and play games in person together. Open up the computers and consoles I love to people who might not be able to afford them by making it accessible and cheap. Ideally this kind of thing could be a destination for kids instead of I dunno... being out on the streets or something. And from the "arcade" roots it could span out into things like having a few classes on weekends for things like game programming (or programming in general), host game jams and other gaming-related talks, and generally be a pleasant place for fun and some education.
And before you make fun of me, let me reiterate: EARLY CONCEPT IDEA.
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West coast in Cali would be your best bet. Isn't that the main place for blizzard things and lcs? Could tie in pros stopping by and signing autographs and playing with kids at the LAN since most pro teams live in that area
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
To be honest Asmo, I can see it working, but it's very hard.
1) You need to find a cheap place to rent out in a very packed city. Higher number of people = higher probability of them visiting if you're within their radius of travel. You need exposure, people passing by on a daily basis. But I don't know how to keep the cost down because if you want a good place (something like a NYC), renting some place out is super expensive, so good luck.
2) Pricing has to be reasonable. If you want to make $, you'd have to charge more, but if you want to attract people, probably 2 bucks an hour will get them to come. Also, in terms of the games offered, realistically if you attempt to diversify, it just makes the cost of upkeep so much higher because you have to invest in computers, TVs, and whatever other games you want to maintain.
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On February 25 2014 01:17 AsmodeusXI wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2014 01:15 wei2coolman wrote:On February 25 2014 01:11 AsmodeusXI wrote:On February 25 2014 01:10 wei2coolman wrote:On February 25 2014 01:03 AsmodeusXI wrote:
Question: what would do y'all think it would take to make a successful PC bang/modern arcade in the US? What would make you want to go to something like that or what would've interested you as a kid for something like that? Nothing realistically. The prices would have to be so low to justify it, that you would lose money doing so. That's partially the idea. The thought is making this as a non-profit kind of thing with something like a low-ish monthly subscription for entry. Of course, I don't want to starve to death, but this is just an idea bouncing around in my head anyways. Any business model which teeters on success of near net profit of 0 is bound to fail, since there's no room for error. You would probably have to charge less than 2 bucks an hour. If you wanted to do an hourly subscription model. I mean, I did mean non-profit as in like... charity-kind-of-thing, but point taken regardless.
Don't get me wrong, you could totally create a successful business out of it, but it's insanely rare to do it. Especially without a lot of capital. You would have to have at least 20 computers, so you could host tournaments to draw in people. That's 20k(assuming you build all of these by hand, as to avoid paying for labor costs). Doesn't even include monitors+mouse+keyboard, which is another 200 for each computer. So that's 4k. Also got to include desks+chairs, and comfortable chairs is a huge selling point, since you want to have people feel comfortable enough to stay all day. So good chairs is another 200 to 300 each, with desks another 200 per 2~3 people. As you can see the costs start piling up real quick, that doesn't even include TV's and consoles.
http://www.howies.com/
This is probably the kind of place you'd be aiming to create.
Also the real money is going to be from food+drinks you sell, and possibly equipment.
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On February 25 2014 01:12 Xenocide_Knight wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2014 11:08 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
If you don't have an activity to do at a meet-up (like a board/card game), chances are a lot of people would just sit there awkwardly sipping their drinks and pretending to check their phone. Just go to dinner! The go-to korea TL meetup. You can never run out of things to say about food that is too spicy/hot/good/cheap/expensive/etc
Fkin' restaurant, couldn't get to the talkative ones. >:[
We passed a Korean BBQ on our way though, I'd be able to find it again if I wander nearby, with everything you guys have been saying about Korean BBQ I should try that at least once. I'm not really a spicy foods or gravy kind of guy so it probably won't be anything special to me.
Haven't met any TLers 'cept the people who introduced me to the site, but then again, France.
Redheads OP, too bad I don't know any right now.
I know of a fun "freeform" system, where basically you describe your character, give it 3 "traits" that you decide upon (they must add up to a certain total iirc), and... that's all. Players describe their actions with all the details hey want, and the GM decides which trait relates to it, gives them a number of d6 to cast depending on the "quality" (read: inventiveness, badassery, lyricism, etc.), the action is a success if some die score less than said trait.
It's obviously fairly simple and you try to accomodate the scenario with the traits (you won't go for a mystery thing if they're all combat/performing-"oriented"), and it lets people express themselves and do all sorts of big plays without having to bother with too much die rolls, plus it gives you the liberty to say "nope, won't work" as the GM since they can't rely on any rule to contest it.
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The closest thing I've ever seen to a pc bang in the US is a place near my house that has an arcade, store, and regularly hosts video game tournaments (mainly console where the organizer has to make sure there are enough TVs and setups for everyone). It's obviously not really the same though.
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On February 25 2014 01:25 AsmodeusXI wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2014 01:19 jcarlsoniv wrote:On February 25 2014 01:11 AsmodeusXI wrote:On February 25 2014 01:10 wei2coolman wrote:On February 25 2014 01:03 AsmodeusXI wrote:
Question: what would do y'all think it would take to make a successful PC bang/modern arcade in the US? What would make you want to go to something like that or what would've interested you as a kid for something like that? Nothing realistically. The prices would have to be so low to justify it, that you would lose money doing so. That's partially the idea. The thought is making this as a non-profit kind of thing with something like a low-ish monthly subscription for entry. Of course, I don't want to starve to death, but this is just an idea bouncing around in my head anyways. There's a big difference between not-for-profit and breaking even. A non-profit business is absolutely allowed to make a profit, as long as the primary objective (read: mission statement) is not to make money. That's how schools are able to get away with it. What you seem to be describing is a business that struggles to stay afloat. As your financial manager, I strongly suggest you aim at making a profit. edit: if you want it to be a charity type thing...how would you spin it so that your main objective isn't to make money? (not criticizing, truly curious) My hope for it would be a place that people of all walks of life could come and play games in person together. Open up the computers and consoles I love to people who might not be able to afford them by making it accessible and cheap. Ideally this kind of thing could be a destination for kids instead of I dunno... being out on the streets or something. And from the "arcade" roots it could span out into things like having a few classes on weekends for things like game programming (or programming in general), host game jams and other gaming-related talks, and generally be a pleasant place for fun and some education. And before you make fun of me, let me reiterate: EARLY CONCEPT IDEA.
I mean, it sounds like a very cool idea. As wei2 illustrated, large amounts of capital for initial investment would be necessary. Beyond that, your overhead would be a challenge to overcome. Rent for a high traffic area, utilities (electricity QQ), refreshments, labor (labor costs wouldn't be huge, you wouldn't need more than 2 employees really).
As a non-profit venture, it would be hard to actually succeed without some lucrative, philanthropic backing. PC Bangs in America struggle as it is, but a low cost PC Bang aimed to help gather younger people for social gaming would be a cool thing.
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I've heard of people attempting this before.
Essentially the idealism is high but the reality of the situation is it just doesn't happen. (It is probably not coincidental that this kind of idealism reminds me of those who post on TL hoping to 'go pro.')
It is nearly impossible to make a profit on this kind of a venture.
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Notes on TTRPGs and DMs:
1) Figure out what kind of DM you want to be, first. If you're the type of DM that likes combat every session, you don't want to design a story-heavy universe. Also make sure the system works for the type of game you're going to be running. If you want horror and mystery, Call of Cthulu is much better than D&D. D&D itself is a combat-heavy system, so if you want an RP heavy campaign, maybe try something else. For specific settings (like Pokemon or 40k), some systems exist.
Corollary: Make sure your players want to play the type of game you're going to be running. If you write an RP heavy campaign and they build a bunch of meatheads and hair-trigger wizards, it won't mesh well. On the flip side, if they build a bunch of diplomancers, combat will be arduous for them.
2) Plan plan plan. Trust me from experience, a campaign (or even just a single session) isn't something you can just "wing". Not even part of it. Know your setting better than the real world. There's a massive difference between a loosely-thought-up enemy fortress and one where you know the layout, entrances, building materials, patrol routes, and hiding spots right in your notes.
3) At the same time, get really good at improvising. Without a doubt, at some point your players are just going to go wildly off track and you have to be ready for that. You might put a giant zombie in their way expecting a fight or plan, but they'll figure out a way to get around it in two minutes that you didn't think of. Prepare as much as you can, but there's still a lot of times where you have to suddenly create a whole new challenge on the fly because they screwed over your original plan.
4) Remember, though, railroading is bad. You might give them a path and a quest and they'll just go "hey, I'd rather do this right now" and walk the other way. Don't force them to follow the story. Either encourage them to follow it (hopefully with good writing, possibly with threats or rewards), or let them sidequest for a bit and then link it back to the main story via plot hooks. No one likes the DM that is so rigid that he basically plays the game for them. It's your setting, but it's their story.
5) Have a couple good DM controlled characters. Villains or NPC allies, have a couple that you've developed really well and know as well as the players know the PCs. It adds a lot of depth and gives a familiar face that they can latch onto (instead of Guard #183 or another dead Orc). Also, when it comes to combat, there's a world of difference between a random monster from the Monster Manual and a character that you know all of their abilities and tactics.
6) Let the players have fun, but keep a leash on things. The point is to have a good time, sure, but some players can and will ruin everything for teh lulz. They will derail the story, they will do random acts of randomness to sidetrack things, they'll specifically try to get the good guys pissed at them or even go pure evil in a good-aligned campaign just for kicks. I'm not saying your friends are that bad or "that guy", but sometimes players just want to see how far they can push things. No one wants to be the no-fun DM, but you're also there to keep things on track and under control. Warn them, talk to them OOC, and if worse comes to worst, make the PC pay for their actions via repercussions or death.
7) Have fun. You might be running a serious campaign, but you don't want everyone to leave is a super somber or bored mood. Let the players be wacky every now and then. Introduce a fun element or recurring gag. Make the combat super fun (like fighting a giant mummified bunny that poops ghouls). If you and your friends are getting together and laughs and good times aren't being had, then you probably should stop playing.
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+ Show Spoiler +On February 25 2014 01:22 WaveofShadow wrote:
We should totally do a TO meet-up once I'm back in the city.
Soniv COME VISIT On February 25 2014 01:24 jcarlsoniv wrote:
I mean, I have to get my passport renewed. Also, TO is ~7-8hr drive from me. It might be more feasible to take a flight.
I'd be down to arrange a long weekend in the summer or something though.
I like your idea of incorporating learning in there too asmo. not only is it honorable to educate the kids and keep them off the street but it provides the possibility to start an afterschool daycare type service so the parents can be customers too. like those karate classes that go around picking up kids after school or w.e. but they would actually learn something useful like Pokemon. or even just a Saturday morning nerd club for the younger ppls that cant walk in alone or w.e. the parents could leave them there for you to sculp their young minds.
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Sorry to double post, but to chime in on Asmo's idea:
The only place I could see this working is in the city, downtown somewhere. The thing about the 'burbs is that everything is so spread out that most times it's not worth the effort to go somewhere to do something you can do at home, which is one of the main reasons I just do my WH40k stuff in my apartment instead of at a hobby store. I'd have to get in my car, go somewhere, then when I want food I'd have to drive another distance, etc.
In the city, with walking distances and public transportation, it's much more likely to get people to come hang out in a centralized location, imo.
Another thing I think you'd have to do is hold a lot of events. Stores like this will never really grow if you just open your doors and advertise. However, you could do things like:
- Hold tournaments (obvious one, plenty of games on various consoles).
- Similarly, encourage people to hold leagues with their friends or ask if there's interest in you hosting one of your own.
- If you have enough capital, see if you can get pre-release games that people can come and try, everyone loves a good demo.
- Depending on what city you're in, see if you can get pros to come in and play/meet people. I would definitely go to a site if there was a speed runner like Cosmo doing his thing or InControl was playing SC2 on a big projector.
- FOOD. Pizza party and Halo tournament would get you a shit ton of people for turnout.
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7-8 hr drive is nothing! Lol. Just feels long
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On February 25 2014 02:07 WaveofShadow wrote:
True it's not THAT bad---though it sucks to do alone. Should pick up some other TLers on the way imo. :D
haha a TLLOLOTGD road trip to canada xD
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I've been to Canada once. Once.
Never again.
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On February 25 2014 02:10 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2014 02:07 WaveofShadow wrote:
True it's not THAT bad---though it sucks to do alone. Should pick up some other TLers on the way imo. :D
haha a TLLOLOTGD road trip to canada xD
you would certainly be welcomed with cold beer and hot bacon
@req what happened?
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United States15536 Posts
On February 25 2014 02:11 Requizen wrote:
I've been to Canada once. Once.
Never again.
Hey now, Montreal is pretty sweet imo.
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On February 25 2014 02:11 ComaDose wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2014 02:10 jcarlsoniv wrote:On February 25 2014 02:07 WaveofShadow wrote:
True it's not THAT bad---though it sucks to do alone. Should pick up some other TLers on the way imo. :D
haha a TLLOLOTGD road trip to canada xD you would certainly be welcomed with cold beer and hot bacon
I'm gonna need Wave to introduce me to some canadian strippers too
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United States15536 Posts
On February 25 2014 02:13 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2014 02:11 ComaDose wrote:On February 25 2014 02:10 jcarlsoniv wrote:On February 25 2014 02:07 WaveofShadow wrote:
True it's not THAT bad---though it sucks to do alone. Should pick up some other TLers on the way imo. :D
haha a TLLOLOTGD road trip to canada xD you would certainly be welcomed with cold beer and hot bacon I'm gonna need Wave to introduce me to some canadian strippers too
Ideally redheads.
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Anyone can come up to PG to visit. Warning: only thing to do here is outdoorsy stuff, drink, low quality strip club (not saying it isn't worth going too... Just sayin)
Edit: I made this post before reading soniv's. Lol.
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EPT
