|
New inhouse logistics TBD. In the meantime, feel free to hang out in the league general discord https://discord.gg/0lCEKA3jUEFxERzd ("add lol" in #welcome) and get some ad-hoc games going! |
Caught the last 10 minutes of the last game after I got home. I have a day off tomorrow so I'll try and drop by and try to give some advice and get used to new monitors (upgraded from an old 22" 1680x1050 to 2x 23" dell ultrasharps 1920x1080 and sensitivity feels quite a bit different). Kinda tired but the few things I noticed:
Stuff I noticed in the extremely lopsided game at the end.
Kennen - Hard to do but you have to keep track of how many people are tagged by your passive and hit W before hourglass. Your ultimate tags people a maximum of 3 times meaning they get stunned but don't keep a mark on them with all 3 marks applied After level 9/13 (depends on which you maxed first) you'll be able to continuously W people if they have marks on them. Ideally, after your ultimate, everyone should have 1-2 marks on them so that in ~2s after your hourglass wears off you can W again to stun/deal heavy AoE damage.
@Mathies. Attitude. Do you think Homme doesn't play something because it's low skillcap? Flame? Why the hell do people play Ryze, he has no skillshots at all, just faceroll buttons. If you have a shit game or get shit on, you probably deserve it. I'm going to guess that roffles camped the shit out of you because you made yourself an easy target by playing relentlessly aggressive like you do in soloQ.
Interesting note about bottom lane. On caitlyn, you actually want slightly longer trades. Graves can EQ or harass but he's got little beyond that. Same with Sona. You're never going to win the 2 shot pokewar since both of them burst so hard. You need to keep shooting and E/Q to end the trade, a 3-5s trade goes heavily in favour of caitlyn while she loses almost anything shorter that's not a single free shot.
|
EDIT: THIS IS A DIRECT FOLLOW-UP TO WHAT TOOK PLACE IN TEAMSPEAK. THIS MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH ANYTHING POSTED IN THIS THREAD, BUT I FELT IT NEEDED TO BE CALMLY AND REASONABLY PRESENTED.
Roffles essentially is asking me in these to shut up and sit down. I vehemently disagree.
To make this more obvious, I will use a comparison that is hopefully valid. Learning is the core here. Period. So, let's compare to the most obvious learning we ever go through: school. For the sake of discussion, lets use math, as it is rather basic and concrete.
When in a math class, do you do nothing but take notes and listen to the teacher? That's how you fail tests. I have never failed a test on material that I have learned in the following manner: I asked questions, and my questions are framed such that they act as a verification for my current understanding. When I was more confident, I would frame questions that were 'perfect' in clarifying understanding--this benefited my classmates as well as me. The most successful learning experiences are those where you are engaged in dialogue, aggressively questioning every concept in order to fully understand it. Even in classes of sixty people, professors appreciated the way in which I steered discussion from my perspective as a student.
By default, I have my own understanding of every minute part of this game--whether its right or not is a whole different story. I act on this information assuming it is correct, and when it is proven incorrect, my actions change as a result.
Example:
Two ways a situation can play out:
Voice inside my head, not asking question: "Oh, it looks like he derived with respect to y..."
Asking question: "Wait, did you mean to derive with respect to y?"
"No...?"
"Then why did sinx^2+cosx^2 go to 1"
"trig identity"
"oh"
Example of my understanding vs reality:
Misunderstanding: When Maokai is rolling towards my location, I will flash to get away from his roll and avoid the gank.
Outcome: Maokai continues rolling to my new Flash'd location, continuing to play like this will (usually) waste my Flash.
Correct Understanding: When Maokai is rolling to me(as it is aimed at me, not my location), I can Flash after the stun wears off to create distance, or I should've been at a position where I could Flash before he starts rolling. Ward farther, play with a safer distance.
Outcome: Flash not wasted, gank avoided if properly played.
|
On August 24 2013 17:54 XilDarkz wrote:Even in classes of sixty people, professors appreciated the way in which I steered discussion from my perspective as a student.
Holy shit, this tells me everything.
WTF does this rant have to do with anything that was said in the last page?
|
Korea (South)11232 Posts
On August 24 2013 17:57 Pooshlmer wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2013 17:54 XilDarkz wrote:Even in classes of sixty people, professors appreciated the way in which I steered discussion from my perspective as a student.
Holy shit, this tells me everything. WTF does this rant have to do with anything that was said in the last page?
he showed what a badass he is in rl. Otherwise no idea
|
On August 24 2013 16:48 wei2coolman wrote:![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/0BSSW5L.jpg) Blue team loss (forgot to include victory/loss part)
Some added comments (I was the cait):
Vayne botched an engage that should have gotten me before fiddle support came to rescue me. This happened again sometime later, but I felt like I should've died whenever vayne got in her range. She also had bork and I had minimal lifesteal, which also scared me even more. I feel like laning wise I'm not that bad at ADC, but when it comes to engages and teamfight positioning, I'm worse than a silver ADC. That last fight where I got caught is enough proof of that.
Rammus would've also gotten a bunch of easy ganks bot since we were always pushed up. If it wasn't roffles camping mathies, I think bot lane would've been a lot more sour than it actually was. The game plan should've been mid and bot pushing as hard as we could, evelynn throwing wards in their jungle for counter ganks mid and bot, ignore the lost top lane, and try to get cait/annie as fed and farmed as possible. I have no idea what the hell happened until cait and fid got zoned by diana/vayne while nasus/eve/annie were trying to kill the fed riven/lulu/rammus.
Does anyone have any advice on how to position yourself as the ADC against a dangerous team/on a losing team? How much of the positioning depends on the rest of the team, and how much can I do for myself? That game might've just been a bad game since we were going against an extremely fed riven and farmed diana, but I dont think that's enough of an excuse for me to do no damage to their team.
|
On August 24 2013 17:52 Lmui wrote:
@Mathies. Attitude. Do you think Homme doesn't play something because it's low skillcap? Flame? Why the hell do people play Ryze, he has no skillshots at all, just faceroll buttons. If you have a shit game or get shit on, you probably deserve it. I'm going to guess that roffles camped the shit out of you because you made yourself an easy target by playing relentlessly aggressive like you do in soloQ.
Interesting note about bottom lane. On caitlyn, you actually want slightly longer trades. Graves can EQ or harass but he's got little beyond that. Same with Sona. You're never going to win the 2 shot pokewar since both of them burst so hard. You need to keep shooting and E/Q to end the trade, a 3-5s trade goes heavily in favour of caitlyn while she loses almost anything shorter that's not a single free shot.
I believe the amount of unadulterated personal attacks against me and the strawmans set-up by certain community members for easy band wagons has put me in a position where I easily will go aggro rather than ignore people, because it obviously isn't stopping.
I know where and when I'm missing last hits, and I mentally register when I'm missing last hits and how I should've played the situation. I know that, 100%, all I need to do to get more CS under tower as Nasus is... play as Nasus top lane more than twice ever, to build my intuition with his skills. I do not need someone telling me that I need to learn how to CS under tower, as I know that within a short amount of real-game experience, I will be able to do it. My Nasus CS more than doubled from game to game (at a certain point in the game, like 15 minutes) and I guarantee you it wasn't because orb told me I need to learn to last hit under tower. If I play Nasus every game for a day, by the end of that day I will not miss a single CS under tower--this is similar to learning build orders in Starcraft. I know I can hit a macro benchmark, I just need to play the build. So if I'm testing a new build, and some genius in my stream chat tells me that I lost because I missed injects and I need to learn to inject, my immediate reaction is that of pure hate. Why? Read how people treat me, and you'll see that its only me giving back in my small way to the community.
|
On August 24 2013 17:57 Pooshlmer wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2013 17:54 XilDarkz wrote:Even in classes of sixty people, professors appreciated the way in which I steered discussion from my perspective as a student.
Holy shit, this tells me everything. WTF does this rant have to do with anything that was said in the last page?
editted the top of my post to clarify
|
+ Show Spoiler +On August 24 2013 17:54 XilDarkz wrote:
EDIT: THIS IS A DIRECT FOLLOW-UP TO WHAT TOOK PLACE IN TEAMSPEAK. THIS MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH ANYTHING POSTED IN THIS THREAD, BUT I FELT IT NEEDED TO BE CALMLY AND REASONABLY PRESENTED.
Roffles essentially is asking me in these to shut up and sit down. I vehemently disagree.
To make this more obvious, I will use a comparison that is hopefully valid. Learning is the core here. Period. So, let's compare to the most obvious learning we ever go through: school. For the sake of discussion, lets use math, as it is rather basic and concrete.
When in a math class, do you do nothing but take notes and listen to the teacher? That's how you fail tests. I have never failed a test on material that I have learned in the following manner: I asked questions, and my questions are framed such that they act as a verification for my current understanding. When I was more confident, I would frame questions that were 'perfect' in clarifying understanding--this benefited my classmates as well as me. The most successful learning experiences are those where you are engaged in dialogue, aggressively questioning every concept in order to fully understand it. Even in classes of sixty people, professors appreciated the way in which I steered discussion from my perspective as a student.
By default, I have my own understanding of every minute part of this game--whether its right or not is a whole different story. I act on this information assuming it is correct, and when it is proven incorrect, my actions change as a result.
Example:
Two ways a situation can play out:
Voice inside my head, not asking question: "Oh, it looks like he derived with respect to y..."
Asking question: "Wait, did you mean to derive with respect to y?"
"No...?"
"Then why did sinx^2+cosx^2 go to 1"
"trig identity"
"oh"
Example of my understanding vs reality:
Misunderstanding: When Maokai is rolling towards my location, I will flash to get away from his roll and avoid the gank.
Outcome: Maokai continues rolling to my new Flash'd location, continuing to play like this will (usually) waste my Flash.
Correct Understanding: When Maokai is rolling to me(as it is aimed at me, not my location), I can Flash after the stun wears off to create distance, or I should've been at a position where I could Flash before he starts rolling. Ward farther, play with a safer distance.
Outcome: Flash not wasted, gank avoided if properly played.
Almost everything we tell you is based off of empirical evidence of people who are a lot better than you at the game, and more experienced. You know what is true of empirical experiments? The proof is just that something happens. No room for arguments. There is no room for alternative interpretations, sometimes shit is just wrong. For example, you played nasus vs rumble. Rumble had like 8 creeps and you had zero, and it was pushing and going to hit your tower 100%. You chose to walk up and spirit fire, Q, do like 100 damage, and took like 2/3 of your health for it. There is no room for discourse or alternative interpretations, it was a fucking terrible idea, pretty much irrespective of top laners, or laners in general.
You got annoyed at us for constantly calling out positions of people on the map. Did you know that if enemy jungler is mid, or even just seen on a random ward in the jungle, the other lanes can play differently? Sometimes people could be busy focusing on CS or a trade might happen, and they might miss it. Happens even to the best players, even if only for a second. The idea is that 5 people calling shit out can catch everything that happens on the minimap, and help keep everybody else aware.
And then the skillcap topic. Malphite is a low-skillcap champion? Maybe, in comparison to like Jayce or Anivia or something like that. How much room is there to outplay your opponent? A fucking ton. That's all you need. If a champion has room to outplay and beat your opponent, then there is skill involved in learning to play it. I've lost lane to malphites plenty of times before. That means somebody outplayed me, all there is to it. You're literally looking at the game the wrong way. Low and high skillcap is completely meaningless if you aren't anywhere close to it. I'm pretty good at anivia and lux. Heck I'm 6-3 3.7kda on Garen of all champs. Doesn't mean jackshit, I'm not particularly close to the skillcap. I miss CS all the time, I fuck up combos, die in lane etc. Still leaves a fuckton of room to outplay and show how well you understand the champion.
|
Ok, the entire thing about skill-cap and that was just dumb and stupid and I shouldn't have brought anything of the nature up or responded.
Basically, I generally enjoy playing higher skill cap game mechanics. I have more fun that way. If I have more fun doing something, I will do it over an alternative that I find less fun.
This is simply personal opinion and trying to rationalize it otherwise was just mindless defensive(?) rambling.
before I played Syndra, I wasn't having much fun. Then, I started playing Syndra, and my fun level went straight up. I attribute this to the mechanics fitting what I enjoy. Similarly, I have a lot of fun playing Invoker in Dota and love the opportunity to pull off a great escape with a clutch icewall when playing QE, or a perfect combo on the enemy team late game with an Aghanim's and destroying the teamfight.
|
On August 24 2013 18:05 XilDarkz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2013 17:52 Lmui wrote:
@Mathies. Attitude. Do you think Homme doesn't play something because it's low skillcap? Flame? Why the hell do people play Ryze, he has no skillshots at all, just faceroll buttons. If you have a shit game or get shit on, you probably deserve it. I'm going to guess that roffles camped the shit out of you because you made yourself an easy target by playing relentlessly aggressive like you do in soloQ.
Interesting note about bottom lane. On caitlyn, you actually want slightly longer trades. Graves can EQ or harass but he's got little beyond that. Same with Sona. You're never going to win the 2 shot pokewar since both of them burst so hard. You need to keep shooting and E/Q to end the trade, a 3-5s trade goes heavily in favour of caitlyn while she loses almost anything shorter that's not a single free shot. I believe the amount of unadulterated personal attacks against me and the strawmans set-up by certain community members for easy band wagons has put me in a position where I easily will go aggro rather than ignore people, because it obviously isn't stopping.
Have you ever stopped to ask why people keep attacking you?
-You're BM when you get a kill, and you bitch whenever you die. Everyone here has BM'd and been BM'd before in a random online SC, LoL, or HoN game. The implied gentleman's agreement here is that if you're playing with other people from TL, you dont bitch at them, and they wont BM you.
-You think you're good enough to ignore everyone else's criticism. Truth is, your only good champ is syndra, and you still suck with her because you can't deal with ganks whatsoever. Syndra is a very noob friendly champion since she's such a bully in the lane, which allows you to ignore fundamental mechanics. Some of the criticism is not helpful, but when we told you to just run AD runes to last hit, that it takes 1 E proc+1 turret hit to kill a ranged minion, to just let the wave come to you instead of doing something stupid risky, you flat out ignore us. Not listening to us cause we're not playing in the LCS? Why the hell are you playing with us then?
-You take extreme offense whenever someone makes fun of you. This is the internet -- grow up. We're all here to have fun, why the hell do you feel like you need to defend yourself? Why the hell are you starting shit with everyone else? Stop being so stubborn and be a little more humble for a change.
-You make up some bullshit excuse for every mistake you do. We dont care about your mistakes, but we do care about the excuses you throw at us. Not knowing what rumble overheat does, then mistaking his Q for his autoattack? Yea, there are a lot of champs in leagues, but couldn't you have asked "how do you lane vs rumble as nasus" before you got in the lane with him? The shit you say is so stupid sometimes its impossible not to make fun of it. Hell I get shit all the time too for running ghost on lee sin, but I dont take offense to it.
Want me to keep going?
|
Registration
- Ingame name
Naonao
- Rank and division
Gold 3
- If you are a lowbie (Gold or below), include what position you would be interested in working on. (List two)
Jungle, Top
- For each role, identify two champions you wish to improve on
Jungle - Jarvan, Udyr
Top - Nasus, Lee Sin
|
I suppose I haven't actually done a registration post.
Registration
- Ingame name
Porouscloud
- Rank and division
Plat 1
|
On August 24 2013 18:45 XilDarkz wrote:
This is simply personal opinion and trying to rationalize it otherwise was just mindless defensive(?) rambling.
Rationalization is a defense mechanism in psychodynamics
|
I have Mathies on auto mute in Teamspeak from now on. He is the first player that I refuse to play a game with. Unless he proves he can actually learn something rather than nod his head and revert back to his previous behavior within the span of one day, I will auto ban Mathies from any IH games that I'm making. That's all I'm saying on the matter.
Edit: Why the hell are people even bothering giving him criticism or responding to him? Is there ANYONE in these IH's that can say with a straight face that he doesn't ruin the experience for people on his own team or any game he just happens to be in?
|
Don't get me wrong, mathies, I like you and I think you have potential
Like the only thing standing between you and being a good player is attitude
It's your biggest flaw that you have a hard time accepting what other people say
|
On August 24 2013 21:22 KissBlade wrote:
Why the hell are people even bothering giving him criticism or responding to him? Is there ANYONE in these IH's that can say with a straight face that he doesn't ruin the experience for people on his own team or any game he just happens to be in?
He doesn't ruin my experience. He doesn't brighten my day either though. He's just a dude playing LoL, same as the rest of us haha.
I really feel like some of the things he says are being taken too personally by others, although I'd agree that he sometimes lacks tact, he's done nothing that makes me, personally, take offense to him.
I have a bigger issue with Diamond players who aren't communicating leaving game after game 5/13, and 4/12 vs gold lanes because they aren't taking the games seriously enough. I really appreciate the higher level players taking the time to play in these games, but it seems like a waste of their time, and ours, when they just fuck around. It's disrespectful to enter these games and then just throw because you don't give a shit.
|
On August 24 2013 18:53 imBLIND wrote:
Some of the criticism is not helpful, but when we told you to just run AD runes to last hit, that it takes 1 E proc+1 turret hit to kill a ranged minion, to just let the wave come to you instead of doing something stupid risky, you flat out ignore us. Not listening to us cause we're not playing in the LCS? Why the hell are you playing with us then?
If the ad runes were for syndra, I told him not to stop running them.
|
Also Milo let other people on your team speak up a little more, the shotcalling you're doing is very detailed but it sometimes leaves no room for other people to even talk ;P
|
On August 24 2013 21:48 Nemireck wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2013 21:22 KissBlade wrote:
Why the hell are people even bothering giving him criticism or responding to him? Is there ANYONE in these IH's that can say with a straight face that he doesn't ruin the experience for people on his own team or any game he just happens to be in? I have a bigger issue with Diamond players who aren't communicating leaving game after game 5/13, and 4/12 vs gold lanes because they aren't taking the games seriously enough. I really appreciate the higher level players taking the time to play in these games, but it seems like a waste of their time, and ours, when they just fuck around. It's disrespectful to enter these games and then just throw because you don't give a shit.
If you notice Diamond players throwing the games because they just don't care, then raise it to Neoillusions. (or failing that, Roffles) However, at the same time, mind you that scores aren't everything. You can carry games as 5 - 13 due to space you're creating for your team. Similarly, not every Diamond ends up playing their optimal roles and certain golds are definitely not Gold in terms of skill level. For example, Milo and Roffles are easily Diamond level, they simply choose not to play. Similarly, stxz returned from a hiatus of playing if I recall so he might be on the rustier side though I will say he seems to be slightly on the less tryhard end ...
|
So, I had a couple requests to post the results of our TROLLS test in here.
Twitch/Cassiopeia lane, tested about 5 games, prob do more next week.
Results:
It's a little cheesy, the lane needs to get ahead or Cassiopeia sort of just becomes an ult-bot.
vs. some lanes the potential to get ahead seems to be there, vs. other lanes it's not. Twitch/Cass seem to just straight win any 2v2 where they can actually get a clean fight. So vs say, a Leona/Graves they do very well, because straight from level 1 they just walk up to them and try to kill them. What does Leona do about it? She has to just leave the lane entirely or get killed.
vs. other lanes the potential doesn't seem to be there. Cait/Lulu for example, if Cass tries to zone them Lulu just slows her and walks away while Cait CS's.
So it looks like it may be viable as a situational counterpick but not something you can pick early.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
