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Die4Ever
United States17750 Posts
On August 17 2024 21:28 Charoisaur wrote: he lost 3 times, I don't think Oliveira can complain about the format, he got enough chances Getting knocked out isn't the problem with the format, it's the placements. Oliveira got last place, same as Coffee and Astrea, and that just doesn't make sense | ||
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fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium4148 Posts
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Nasigil1
114 Posts
On August 17 2024 21:28 Charoisaur wrote: he lost 3 times, I don't think Oliveira can complain about the format, he got enough chances Imagine this is the traditional group stage to elimination format, Oli went 3-2 in his first 5 series, that's usually enough to guarantee a Ro.16 or sometimes quarterfinal appearance. Instead here, he got the same reward as Coffee who didn't win a single map. | ||
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Brutaxilos
United States2634 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany16103 Posts
On August 17 2024 21:30 Nasigil1 wrote: Imagine this is the traditional group stage to elimination format, Oli went 3-2 in his first 5 series, that's usually enough to guarantee a Ro.16 or sometimes quarterfinal appearance. Instead here, he got the same reward as Coffee who didn't win a single map. yeah, I see the point, this is truly unfair | ||
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darklycid
3562 Posts
On August 17 2024 21:32 Charoisaur wrote: yeah, I see the point, this is truly unfair Yea there should have been seeding into the Knockout bracket, also bo5 for semifinals and Finals prob. | ||
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Nasigil1
114 Posts
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Zaros
United Kingdom3692 Posts
I hope Showtime and Reynor can play well now, I will be cheering for them. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27477 Posts
On August 17 2024 21:13 Zaros wrote: Ugh, yeah i hate this format. *Arghs internally* There are formats I prefer, formats I favour less. But with the latter I usually understand a particular rationale even if I may not especially like it. Ruthless single elimination, hey it’s brutal but high-stakes, upsets happen and it can be quite hype. Straight double elim less brutal and often you see the top players make it to the latter stages due to that extra life. Round robins/Swiss stuff you get to see players get a lot of chances to show what they’ve got, and mitigates things like bracket luck a lot. This format? I just don’t really understand what it’s trying to accomplish. Bo5s for a fast-forward to the Ro4 and one Ro8 spot, in a double elimination bracket, with everyone else really just jostling for seeding for a single elim gauntlet? Also sees a bunch of quick rematches too, which I’m not a fan of. Bit arbitrary but I prefer if player x beats player y, then y has to grind back a bit to earn that rematch. Then when we get to the stage where the majority of the whole field are battling for placement with only one shot to play with, it’s Bo3s? :S I believe we’re 1/4 so far, we shall see how it goes. Alas SHIN is gone already, but if Showtime loses his first match, and Dark and Clem lose in the Ro4 we could also see a scenario where 4 players are eliminated after only losing one series. Now with the Ro4 guys I mean yes, they’re in the Ro4, that’s already a good result but this is just wonky, and I don’t like wonky. Some players have 3 lives, Rag and Showtime have 1 and the group stage winners lose theirs through success. Someone make it make sense! I don’t see any advantages with this over just doing a seeding stage into a double or single elimination knockout bracket. Or doing round robins into Ro8 or Ro4, or all sorts of other approaches. I think many of us felt Oliveira and herO showed some of the best StarCraft in the first 2 days outside of those Ro4 players, but the former is already out with a low placement after a loss today, and it could happen to herO too. With another format taking out Byun twice, Gumiho and taking Maru to the limit or Solar, Reynor and Serral being pushed are the kind of scalps that signify a pretty decent Ro16/8 run. But are effectively meaningless as regards to placement with this choice of format. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27477 Posts
On August 17 2024 21:28 Asha wrote: Jesus why would you try interview a guy who is actually crying Why do loser’s interviews at all? At least right after a series I know many a regular sport does it, but there’s usually a big enough gap. Or it’s a chance in say, tennis to thank the fans or whatever. Or if it’s say, a boxing bout it’s been brewing and being hyped forever, so it kind of doesn’t feel too intrusive to get the thoughts of the losing fighter. Maybe my memory isn’t what it used to be, I imagine we’ve seen some but loser interviews just aren’t really a common thing in SC2, especially immediately after. It seems an odd innovation to add, and I mean it doesn’t add much. Most player interviews in and around the stage don’t, full stop. They’re much more engaging when talking more at length in the kind of environment you see at HSC | ||
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Asha
United Kingdom38257 Posts
On August 17 2024 21:33 darklycid wrote: Yea there should have been seeding into the Knockout bracket, also bo5 for semifinals and Finals prob. There was some seeding right? - It's why you didn't get any herO/Byun/Oli/Reynor matches immediately | ||
Nakajin
Canada8991 Posts
On August 17 2024 21:40 WombaT wrote: *Arghs internally* There are formats I prefer, formats I favour less. But with the latter I usually understand a particular rationale even if I may not especially like it. Ruthless single elimination, hey it’s brutal but high-stakes, upsets happen and it can be quite hype. Straight double elim less brutal and often you see the top players make it to the latter stages due to that extra life. Round robins/Swiss stuff you get to see players get a lot of chances to show what they’ve got, and mitigates things like bracket luck a lot. This format? I just don’t really understand what it’s trying to accomplish. Bo5s for a fast-forward to the Ro4 and one Ro8 spot, in a double elimination bracket, with everyone else really just jostling for seeding for a single elim gauntlet? Also sees a bunch of quick rematches too, which I’m not a fan of. Bit arbitrary but I prefer if player x beats player y, then y has to grind back a bit to earn that rematch. Then when we get to the stage where the majority of the whole field are battling for placement with only one shot to play with, it’s Bo3s? :S I believe we’re 1/4 so far, we shall see how it goes. Alas SHIN is gone already, but if Showtime loses his first match, and Dark and Clem lose in the Ro4 we could also see a scenario where 4 players are eliminated after only losing one series. Now with the Ro4 guys I mean yes, they’re in the Ro4, that’s already a good result but this is just wonky, and I don’t like wonky. Some players have 3 lives, Rag and Showtime have 1 and the group stage winners lose theirs through success. Someone make it make sense! I don’t see any advantages with this over just doing a seeding stage into a double or single elimination knockout bracket. Or doing round robins into Ro8 or Ro4, or all sorts of other approaches. I think many of us felt Oliveira and herO showed some of the best StarCraft in the first 2 days outside of those Ro4 players, but the former is already out with a low placement after a loss today, and it could happen to herO too. With another format taking out Byun twice, Gumiho and taking Maru to the limit or Solar, Reynor and Serral being pushed are the kind of scalps that signify a pretty decent Ro16/8 run. But are effectively meaningless as regards to placement with this choice of format. I think they wanted to have their cake and eat it too. They do a little "side tournament" in the group stage, where you get to show a lot of matches from top players with long matches and double elimination. Then you have a second tournament set up to create lots of drama and eliminations, but you've already tucked away 3 of the favorites, so your final 4 is kind of guaranteed to have the most popular players. Purely from a spectacle standpoint I guess there's some twisted logic to it. But yeah, Oliveira going home with the same prize money as Coffee who didn't even win a map is downright insulting for the players. | ||
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Asha
United Kingdom38257 Posts
160 supply vs 160 supply and then realise it is 10 SCV vs 20 probes lol | ||
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FCHK
203 Posts
On August 17 2024 21:46 WombaT wrote: Why do loser’s interviews at all? At least right after a series I know many a regular sport does it, but there’s usually a big enough gap. Or it’s a chance in say, tennis to thank the fans or whatever. Or if it’s say, a boxing bout it’s been brewing and being hyped forever, so it kind of doesn’t feel too intrusive to get the thoughts of the losing fighter. Maybe my memory isn’t what it used to be, I imagine we’ve seen some but loser interviews just aren’t really a common thing in SC2, especially immediately after. It seems an odd innovation to add, and I mean it doesn’t add much. Most player interviews in and around the stage don’t, full stop. They’re much more engaging when talking more at length in the kind of environment you see at HSC They do loser's interview in CS:GO, shortly after the winner's | ||
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DBooN
Germany2727 Posts
Looks like Gumi is gonna win anyways though. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18487 Posts
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DBooN
Germany2727 Posts
On August 17 2024 22:04 Acrofales wrote: Can't showtime build a Stargate and a voidray? I do not think so. | ||
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mintyminmus
Australia127 Posts
On August 17 2024 21:50 Asha wrote: There was some seeding right? - It's why you didn't get any herO/Byun/Oli/Reynor matches immediately Tournaments that have a "knockout" bracket after the group stage often "seed" players on different knock-out rounds based on their group stage results. For example, a group stage with 8 people can easily place 7-8 in the first round together with the play-in players, 5-6 in the 2nd round, and 3-4 in the third round of an elimination bracket. This way, you still allow every player to potentially make it through if he keeps winning but also guarantee the players who have a stronger performance in the group stage have a better starting point in the bracket so that their group stage position has some meaning. They do need to have 4 play-in players for this to work though. | ||
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True_Spike
Poland3434 Posts
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kAra
Germany1467 Posts
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