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IEM Katowice 2024 - Page 22

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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Prev 1 20 21 22 23 24 94 Next
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
February 09 2024 16:50 GMT
#421
On February 10 2024 01:47 Durnuu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 10 2024 01:34 Charoisaur wrote:
On February 10 2024 01:06 Fango wrote:
On February 10 2024 01:00 Antithesis wrote:
On February 10 2024 00:52 Fango wrote:
On February 10 2024 00:44 Poopi wrote:
On February 10 2024 00:43 TheLordofAwesome wrote:
Maru's loss to Cyan seems to have been a wakeup call to him. He's playing a lot better vs Showtime I think

ShoWTimE isn't as aggro as Cyan so Maru can kinda do whatever he wants it seems, it helps

Yeah, Showtime has always been a fantastic matchup for Maru. You could probably say Showtime's style doesn't lend itself well to PvT in general. Protoss has so much potential to mess up and tilt terran in the early game that he doesn't really do.

Also, ShowTime always seems to want to win in the most honorable way imaginable, without any dirty tricks, while simultaneously apparently lacking confidence that he can do so against the absolute top dogs. This leads to him having terrible records against the likes of Serral and Maru.

Goes to show how impressive Stats is that he pulled off wins against Serral and Maru while barely dipping into the dirty protoss bag at all.

At the same time, the protoss bag hasn't looked deep enough to actually win tournaments in a few years now. Maybe playing defensive is actually the best way to win? Can you expect protoss players to really enter tournaments with 25 surprise builds?

I think there's a middle ground between playing ultra conservative like Showtime and playing hyper aggressive like herO.
Probably how Trap played seems to be the best approach

Trap was still mostly macro, I'd say Classic was the best "middle ground" protoss, as in the one sitting right in the middle between aggressive and macro

Classic was also the best build-smith protoss had. It's hard to imagine anyone else coming out with as many surprise builds
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland26734 Posts
February 09 2024 16:52 GMT
#422
On February 10 2024 01:34 Charoisaur wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 10 2024 01:06 Fango wrote:
On February 10 2024 01:00 Antithesis wrote:
On February 10 2024 00:52 Fango wrote:
On February 10 2024 00:44 Poopi wrote:
On February 10 2024 00:43 TheLordofAwesome wrote:
Maru's loss to Cyan seems to have been a wakeup call to him. He's playing a lot better vs Showtime I think

ShoWTimE isn't as aggro as Cyan so Maru can kinda do whatever he wants it seems, it helps

Yeah, Showtime has always been a fantastic matchup for Maru. You could probably say Showtime's style doesn't lend itself well to PvT in general. Protoss has so much potential to mess up and tilt terran in the early game that he doesn't really do.

Also, ShowTime always seems to want to win in the most honorable way imaginable, without any dirty tricks, while simultaneously apparently lacking confidence that he can do so against the absolute top dogs. This leads to him having terrible records against the likes of Serral and Maru.

Goes to show how impressive Stats is that he pulled off wins against Serral and Maru while barely dipping into the dirty protoss bag at all.

At the same time, the protoss bag hasn't looked deep enough to actually win tournaments in a few years now. Maybe playing defensive is actually the best way to win? Can you expect protoss players to really enter tournaments with 25 surprise builds?

I think there's a middle ground between playing ultra conservative like Showtime and playing hyper aggressive like herO.
Probably how Trap played seems to be the best approach

Stylistically, if not talking pure raw skill (although he had plenty) Trap probably had the best playstyle for the race by adapting to his shape and the meta.

When his PvT was at its peak, which was damn good indeed he’d play straight up games a lot, but mix in some non-committal or committal aggression. He tried and failed to replicate that in PvZ and basically rebuilt it to be focused around crisp timing attacks, and made hay in the year where he was winning tournies and taking out even the likes of Serral in extended series.

He didn’t really have a ‘style’ like a herO and Stats clearly do, at opposite ends of the aggressive/defensive spectrum
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
February 09 2024 16:57 GMT
#423
It's weird to think that their match tomorrow will be worth $500 for Reynor and maybe $10K for Dark. Round Robins can be wild
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
Ludwigvan
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Germany2371 Posts
February 09 2024 16:57 GMT
#424
yesterday and today there are wrong results shown on liquipedia they get fixed fast, but it is quite odd.
TheLordofAwesome
Profile Joined May 2014
Korea (South)2655 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-02-09 17:03:19
February 09 2024 17:02 GMT
#425
Looks like herO vs Showtime might be playing for who gets out of the group tomorrow.

On February 10 2024 01:57 Fango wrote:
It's weird to think that their match tomorrow will be worth $500 for Reynor and maybe $10K for Dark. Round Robins can be wild

They're playing on the B stream right now.
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
February 09 2024 17:06 GMT
#426
On February 10 2024 02:02 TheLordofAwesome wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 10 2024 01:57 Fango wrote:
It's weird to think that their match tomorrow will be worth $500 for Reynor and maybe $10K for Dark. Round Robins can be wild

They're playing on the B stream right now.

My bad, although it's still a funny interaction now where Dark is going for 1st and Reynor is playing a showmatch
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
Durnuu
Profile Joined September 2013
13322 Posts
February 09 2024 17:08 GMT
#427
Gonna have to step up that ZvZ if you wanna win before military, Dark
BUNNYYYYYYYYY https://i.imgur.com/BiCF577.png
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
February 09 2024 17:10 GMT
#428
On February 10 2024 02:08 Durnuu wrote:
Gonna have to step up that ZvZ if you wanna win before military, Dark

Dark isn't ever beating Serral. I think his ZvZ will only be a factor if he faces Solar in the playoffs
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland26734 Posts
February 09 2024 17:15 GMT
#429
On February 10 2024 01:50 Fango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 10 2024 01:47 Durnuu wrote:
On February 10 2024 01:34 Charoisaur wrote:
On February 10 2024 01:06 Fango wrote:
On February 10 2024 01:00 Antithesis wrote:
On February 10 2024 00:52 Fango wrote:
On February 10 2024 00:44 Poopi wrote:
On February 10 2024 00:43 TheLordofAwesome wrote:
Maru's loss to Cyan seems to have been a wakeup call to him. He's playing a lot better vs Showtime I think

ShoWTimE isn't as aggro as Cyan so Maru can kinda do whatever he wants it seems, it helps

Yeah, Showtime has always been a fantastic matchup for Maru. You could probably say Showtime's style doesn't lend itself well to PvT in general. Protoss has so much potential to mess up and tilt terran in the early game that he doesn't really do.

Also, ShowTime always seems to want to win in the most honorable way imaginable, without any dirty tricks, while simultaneously apparently lacking confidence that he can do so against the absolute top dogs. This leads to him having terrible records against the likes of Serral and Maru.

Goes to show how impressive Stats is that he pulled off wins against Serral and Maru while barely dipping into the dirty protoss bag at all.

At the same time, the protoss bag hasn't looked deep enough to actually win tournaments in a few years now. Maybe playing defensive is actually the best way to win? Can you expect protoss players to really enter tournaments with 25 surprise builds?

I think there's a middle ground between playing ultra conservative like Showtime and playing hyper aggressive like herO.
Probably how Trap played seems to be the best approach

Trap was still mostly macro, I'd say Classic was the best "middle ground" protoss, as in the one sitting right in the middle between aggressive and macro

Classic was also the best build-smith protoss had. It's hard to imagine anyone else coming out with as many surprise builds

He did have some damn nice tailored builds.
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany16062 Posts
February 09 2024 17:29 GMT
#430
On February 10 2024 02:10 Fango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 10 2024 02:08 Durnuu wrote:
Gonna have to step up that ZvZ if you wanna win before military, Dark

Dark isn't ever beating Serral. I think his ZvZ will only be a factor if he faces Solar in the playoffs

He has basically an even record against Serral (24-26). In good ZvZ form he can definitely beat him
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
ekojs
Profile Joined February 2024
16 Posts
February 09 2024 17:30 GMT
#431
Maru vs Dark for 1st place. Hero vs Showtime for qualification. Nice games tomorrow.
TheLordofAwesome
Profile Joined May 2014
Korea (South)2655 Posts
February 09 2024 17:31 GMT
#432
On February 10 2024 02:30 ekojs wrote:
Maru vs Dark for 1st place. Hero vs Showtime for qualification. Nice games tomorrow.

and Reynor vs Cyan for who has the ignominy of finishing dead last!
Sent.
Profile Joined June 2012
Poland9296 Posts
February 09 2024 17:42 GMT
#433
Arghh it sucks to see Reynor out so early.
You're now breathing manually
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
February 09 2024 17:46 GMT
#434
On February 10 2024 02:29 Charoisaur wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 10 2024 02:10 Fango wrote:
On February 10 2024 02:08 Durnuu wrote:
Gonna have to step up that ZvZ if you wanna win before military, Dark

Dark isn't ever beating Serral. I think his ZvZ will only be a factor if he faces Solar in the playoffs

He has basically an even record against Serral (24-26). In good ZvZ form he can definitely beat him

Huh, I didn't realise Dark actually wins their h2h in online matches.

Although Serral hasn't lost to Dark offline in 7 years, and that was before he was even a full-time player. As much as I love Dark I think he's cooked if he matches Serral.

Dark struggles against Reynor, and Serral has either 3-0 or 4-0'd Reynor almost every time they've met for the last year. The skill difference between them isn't even close.
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
dysenterymd
Profile Joined January 2019
1250 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-02-09 17:57:12
February 09 2024 17:56 GMT
#435
On February 10 2024 02:46 Fango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 10 2024 02:29 Charoisaur wrote:
On February 10 2024 02:10 Fango wrote:
On February 10 2024 02:08 Durnuu wrote:
Gonna have to step up that ZvZ if you wanna win before military, Dark

Dark isn't ever beating Serral. I think his ZvZ will only be a factor if he faces Solar in the playoffs

He has basically an even record against Serral (24-26). In good ZvZ form he can definitely beat him

Huh, I didn't realise Dark actually wins their h2h in online matches.

Although Serral hasn't lost to Dark offline in 7 years, and that was before he was even a full-time player. As much as I love Dark I think he's cooked if he matches Serral.

Dark struggles against Reynor, and Serral has either 3-0 or 4-0'd Reynor almost every time they've met for the last year. The skill difference between them isn't even close.


Eh, I don't think it's as clear cut as Serral beats Reynor and Reynor beats Dark so Serral beats Dark, though I do agree that Serral is heavily favored. I mainly believe that because Serral has looked monstrous in ZvZ for the past few months, he's beaten Solar multiple times and crushed Reynor. I honestly think Maru/Clem are more dangerous to Serral right now than Dark/Solar (or Reynor, but he's out already)
Serral | Inno | sOs | soO | Has | Classic
allmotor1
Profile Joined December 2017
153 Posts
February 09 2024 17:58 GMT
#436
On February 10 2024 02:46 Fango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 10 2024 02:29 Charoisaur wrote:
On February 10 2024 02:10 Fango wrote:
On February 10 2024 02:08 Durnuu wrote:
Gonna have to step up that ZvZ if you wanna win before military, Dark

Dark isn't ever beating Serral. I think his ZvZ will only be a factor if he faces Solar in the playoffs

He has basically an even record against Serral (24-26). In good ZvZ form he can definitely beat him

Huh, I didn't realise Dark actually wins their h2h in online matches.

Although Serral hasn't lost to Dark offline in 7 years, and that was before he was even a full-time player. As much as I love Dark I think he's cooked if he matches Serral.

Dark struggles against Reynor, and Serral has either 3-0 or 4-0'd Reynor almost every time they've met for the last year. The skill difference between them isn't even close.



And Reynor has beaten Serral plenty of times, it ebbs and flows. The skill difference between those top z's isnt massive, a small difference is enough to make difference.
tigera6
Profile Joined March 2021
3483 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-02-09 18:03:12
February 09 2024 17:59 GMT
#437
Obviously we are counting on Shin to knock Serral off again.

Firefly throwing the game by not making Archon against Chargelot
Yoshi Kirishima
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States10366 Posts
February 09 2024 18:06 GMT
#438
On February 10 2024 02:59 tigera6 wrote:
Obviously we are counting on Shin to knock Serral off again.

Firefly throwing the game by not making Archon against Chargelot


or even just a few zealots vs zealots
Mid-master streaming MECH ONLY + commentary www.twitch.tv/yoshikirishima +++ "If all-in fails, all-in again."
Ciaus237
Profile Joined July 2015
South Africa288 Posts
February 09 2024 18:07 GMT
#439
Serral with a pretty sick comeback against Skillous.
The time that we kill keeps us alive
geokilla
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada8246 Posts
February 09 2024 18:08 GMT
#440
I never expected the Chinese Protoss players to be this strong. How'd they get so good?
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