EPTAbsolutely phenomenal play. In many ways, it's as close to perfection as humanly possible.
[WTL] Master's Coliseum 2023 - Playoffs - Page 5
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Antithesis
Germany1164 Posts
Absolutely phenomenal play. In many ways, it's as close to perfection as humanly possible. | ||
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Argonauta
Spain4906 Posts
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tigera6
3373 Posts
On September 10 2023 22:54 Argonauta wrote: Honestly, I think Cure played better games overall Cure play a very solid macro game and his micro was also very decent, but thats not enough to beat Serral unless he throw in something weird here and there. The first 2 games were the perfect way of opening the game, wish Cure could try to do it for the rest of the game. | ||
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Amoyu7
20 Posts
Don‘t whine about balance here, Clem just showed you exactly how to beat Serral in late game in this tournament, knocking Serral out into the loser's bracket. Too bad he can't play TvT to save his life. Cure's handle of 200 supply army and especially Ghost micro is simply not good enough compared to Maru and Clem. There's a running joke in Chinese community that Cure has a "200 supply debuff", he just looks like a worse player when he hits max supply. This series is a perfect example. | ||
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Antithesis
Germany1164 Posts
On September 10 2023 22:58 Amoyu7 wrote: Don‘t whine about balance here, Clem just showed you exactly how to beat Serral in late game in this tournament, knocking Serral out into the loser's bracket. Too bad he can't play TvT to save his life. Cure's handle of 200 supply army and especially Ghost micro is simply not good enough compared to Maru and Clem. There's a running joke in Chinese community that Cure has a "200 supply debuff", he just look like a worse player when he hits max supply. This series is a perfect example. Completely agree. I think it's both misguided and disrespectful to Serral to even attempt to turn this into a matter of balance. Serral was literally the only zerg in the top 6, alongside 4 terrans. It is just that in this tournament and at this time, he is, all things considered, by far the best player. And what a run this was. He dismantled Korean terrans: 5-0 over Maru (cumulative), 3-1 over Byun, 4-1 over Cure, and 2-0 over Gumiho. Further he 3-0'd MaxPax and also won two ZvZs, one of which was a 3-1 against Dark. Incredible performance. And yet Clem has shown that it is possible to beat him. | ||
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JJH777
United States4405 Posts
On September 10 2023 22:58 Amoyu7 wrote: The problem is Cure don't know how to play late game. He plays perfectly for first 10 mins, often enters late game slightly ahead, and then Serral just came back and thoroughly outplayed him in late game. Don‘t whine about balance here, Clem just showed you exactly how to beat Serral in late game in this tournament, knocking Serral out into the loser's bracket. Too bad he can't play TvT to save his life. Cure's handle of 200 supply army and especially Ghost micro is simply not good enough compared to Maru and Clem. There's a running joke in Chinese community that Cure has a "200 supply debuff", he just looks like a worse player when he hits max supply. This series is a perfect example. And yet Clem is 2-17 in games and 0-7 in series vs Solar on the current patch... And 50-50 vs most other top Zergs besides Dark who he is strangely dominant against currently. Against Serral Clem is still sub 50%. Serral played bizarrely vs Clem far different than his normal ZvTs in all but the final game of the series. None of those were what I'd call a traditional ZvT lategame. I still struggle to see Clem beating Serral the way he played vs the Korean Terrans. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On September 10 2023 08:34 JJH777 wrote: Clem can at least beat him sometimes though which is more than you can say for Maru in both 2022 and 2023. Maru is the favorite vs literally everyone else in the world at the moment (besides maybe Maxpax) but he can't touch Serral. 0-7 in the last month. He's also an immense favorite even vs Zergs that regularly beat Clem. It makes no sense to me. I know different players matchups can play out differently and variance is a thing but in all 7 of those games there's only one where it looked to me like Maru had even a shot of winning. The rest had Serral in control from start to finish. It's rather depressing as a big Maru fan lol. Well one also has to take other things into consideration here, for example what server games are played on, what race / playstyle that favors, and just clem having probably more of an idea how serral plays and how to potentially abuse it as he probably played him more often. But really, a lot of it is also down to chance, small sample sizes one shouldn't put too much stock in. As for maru though, i think he just isn't very tricky, and as serral generally tries to play as solid as possible in a conventional way, that's working very well vs people who kinda do the same (with the worse race to do so, imo). I'd love to see serral play terran or toss in a different timeline, just to see if my feeling is right about zerg being the best race to play if you are playing at peak human performance. | ||
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tigera6
3373 Posts
What I have criticize Maru for, as a fanboy, is that he doesnt mix things up, like his mindset is that if he failed with some opening, he will try to do it again hoping it would be better. | ||
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Gescom
Canada3374 Posts
On September 06 2023 20:41 Gescom wrote: Serral is the kind of player who could win a tournament after marching thru the entire LB, so hold your tongues for a little while longer! ;} LOL!  Another amazing tourney. GG to all. | ||
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HeroSandro
524 Posts
On September 11 2023 01:00 tigera6 wrote: The way Maru played just show how he doesnt prepare for specifically Serral, its the exact same build as he would do against Ragnarok or Solar, and he is super greedy/aggressive to the point its becoming a gamble. Every single game Maru does the 3CC build, Serral just feel safe at home, make some Roach and start to get going for the entire game, and wait for Maru to make a single mistake with his army movement or setup and jump on top of it. Byun at least try to do something risky and get a game out of it. Cure played 2 strange build in game 1 and 2 and he almost won both games. What I have criticize Maru for, as a fanboy, is that he doesnt mix things up, like his mindset is that if he failed with some opening, he will try to do it again hoping it would be better. For a player who has won so many preparation based tournaments, he sure does suck at it 😛 | ||
Poopi
France12803 Posts
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Kreuger
Sweden713 Posts
32-4 in maps (including group) After losing to Clem 3-1 he went through these players in a lower run: Lambo: 3-0 Dark: 3-1 Maxpax: 3-0 Maru: 3-0 Byun: 3-1 Cure: 4-1 | ||
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Gantz023
31 Posts
It only remains to be seen if Serral can maintain this level of play, the truth is that the other players found themselves without hope. I share that Cure has to mix more unusual builds and try to surprise Serral. which is the reason why he loses so much in ZvZ. THE SURPRISE | ||
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Poopi
France12803 Posts
On September 11 2023 03:40 Gantz023 wrote: Serral's tournament was incredible, not only winning but crushing his opponents, and to say that it is just a matter of balance is not looking at who finished in the top 6. 4 Terran, 1 Zerg and 1 Protoss. no other zerg could advance. It only remains to be seen if Serral can maintain this level of play, the truth is that the other players found themselves without hope. I share that Cure has to mix more unusual builds and try to surprise Serral. which is the reason why he loses so much in ZvZ. THE SURPRISE Given the low number of top players, race representation is not a particularly good indicator of balance | ||
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Ciaus_Dronu
South Africa1848 Posts
On September 11 2023 03:53 Poopi wrote: Given the low number of top players, race representation is not a particularly good indicator of balance The low number of top players is an argument for anything being a meh indicator. But we all know the best indicator is the one that lets us complain about Zerg when it's Serral vs Terran world  | ||
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ZeroByte13
765 Posts
When there are no (non-ZvZ) games without Serral left - the tourney is over. | ||
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tigera6
3373 Posts
On September 11 2023 01:39 HeroSandro wrote: For a player who has won so many preparation based tournaments, he sure does suck at it 😛 To be fair, I never think Maru as being the "preparation" player despite him winning many GSL tittles. Hes juts more talented than most KR players and just refuse to die when behind. TY and Cure have better preparation build than Maru imo, and Rogue is the ultimate prepared-build player. Maru just feel like doing whatever he think is good and keep heading straight into it, and if he failed he will try again harder till complete humiliations (Blizzcon 2018). I think Serral used to be in the same boat, he just play his macro game as perfect as he can, and try to react to his opponent move. But these days, especially in ZvT, he start dictating the entire game, by forcing his opponent to react to his early build. | ||
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SamuelGreen
Sweden292 Posts
On September 10 2023 22:48 Argonauta wrote: Serral winning after that hold from Cure is omegalul Did you see the match? Cure a-moved his army right into an obvious trap. I agree that it was omegalul, but it amazes me that Cure got that far with plays like that. | ||
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dysenterymd
1206 Posts
On September 11 2023 12:19 tigera6 wrote: To be fair, I never think Maru as being the "preparation" player despite him winning many GSL tittles. Hes juts more talented than most KR players and just refuse to die when behind. TY and Cure have better preparation build than Maru imo, and Rogue is the ultimate prepared-build player. Maru just feel like doing whatever he think is good and keep heading straight into it, and if he failed he will try again harder till complete humiliations (Blizzcon 2018). I think Serral used to be in the same boat, he just play his macro game as perfect as he can, and try to react to his opponent move. But these days, especially in ZvT, he start dictating the entire game, by forcing his opponent to react to his early build. Serral is also just hard to prep against, he has no real exploitable weakness in ZvT, unlike the other top Zerg. Reynor is often too greedy in the early game and not amazing against turtle Terran, Dark hurts his own eco by going for weird builds, and Solar is a mid-game brawling specialist. Against Serral you need to perfectly execute or hope he's playing off, or go for really risky builds. I think Cure's approach was pretty good actually, and with slightly better execution I feel like he should have won the hell-bat push game and the cyclone game. Yes, going for weird builds you run the risk of getting shut down hard, but when you're crushed in standard games why not try? | ||
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Puudu
2 Posts
Is it because both clem and raynor are fast players and don't rely on strategy as much (I remember raynor used to exploit the fact that Serral at times was playing so standard that he could get away with playing greedy or controll the pace of the game with early pressure)? Even faster than serral at their peek? So serrals playstyle of counter attacking multiple locations constantly is not as effective vs them? Koreans seem to be win with strategy (I know I'm generalising, Maru for example seems like an exception) and this is not as good vs serrals since his scouting and ability to read the game and react to game is so good vs players who rely on strategy (eg. the build working out in their favor). I could elaborate more.. but won't just in case this doesn't spark a conversation =) | ||
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