[WTL] Master's Coliseum 2023 - Playoffs

On September 05 2023 21:53 Poopi wrote:
I forgot it started, nice Clem beating Serral already! How did Serral lose a ZvT though?

On September 06 2023 23:44 tigera6 wrote:
Maru playing like hes on hard mode as well, could have lost both game 2 and 3 because he attacked into Zerg army while not maxing out /teching out

On September 07 2023 03:49 onPHYRE wrote:
If the winners bracket (Clem, Byun, Maxpax and Cure) switched places with the losers bracket (Serral, Dark, herO, Maru), it would have been far less surprising.

On September 07 2023 06:29 Argonauta wrote:
Reynor was afraid to straight up play ZvZ?

On September 07 2023 07:42 Die4Ever wrote:

I still disagree with tournament organizers allowing race switching in the middle of a match (I don't blame Reynor for this, we actually need more people willing to play more than 1 race).

Once map vetoes and picks are made you should not be able to switch race.

Otherwise you can just play the maps that are good for Protoss and then the rest as Zerg. Our map pools often depend on vetoing the maps that are not appropriate for the current matchup, otherwise it can limit the uniqueness of the maps if you need to make every map perfectly balanced for every matchup.

If you have a map pool where like 2 maps are strong for Protoss and 3 maps are strong for Zerg, that's about normal, but with race switching you now have 5 strong maps.

On September 07 2023 20:04 Charoisaur wrote:
If herO beats Maru we will have the rare tournament, where there are more Protoss players than Zergs in the ro6

On September 08 2023 00:31 dbRic1203 wrote:
The only Terran to Lose a match in the Playoffs so far was in a TvT

On September 08 2023 00:45 Die4Ever wrote:

it's funny, but nothing's changed since all the recent tournaments won by zerg, and the WTL playoffs were dominated by zerg too

also Serral still has a chance here

On September 08 2023 12:40 Waxangel wrote:
Reminder that there's a break day randomly

On September 09 2023 16:23 Philippe wrote:
Hum, let's see how Clem will be juggling both MC's matches and HSC's at the same time. Because I don't think it was a masterclass in programming from Take, not sugarcoating it.

On September 09 2023 17:27 Kreuger wrote:


Well, not like Clem had to accept and play in HSC either.

On September 09 2023 16:23 Philippe wrote:
Hum, let's see how Clem will be juggling both MC's matches and HSC's at the same time. Because I don't think it was a masterclass in programming from Take, not sugarcoating it.

On September 09 2023 22:37 Die4Ever wrote:

guess we don't have to worry about this problem anymore lol

On September 06 2023 20:41 Gescom wrote:
Serral is the kind of player who could win a tournament after marching thru the entire LB, so hold your tongues for a little while longer! ;}

On September 10 2023 02:52 The_Red_Viper wrote:

Serral is incredibly good and he plays the best race to be incredibly good at. That's it.

On September 10 2023 02:43 RaFox17 wrote:
Is there something in Serral´s playstyle that makes him so difficult for Maru, or is it simply that Serral is incredible in TvZ?

On September 10 2023 03:56 The_Red_Viper wrote:

When i say 'incredibly good' i basically mean as good as a human can play. The highest tier of mechanical skill with a full understanding of the meta.
I think if you have that, you want to play zerg given its design. If you want to play as solid as possible (so with a defensive mindset, trying to reduce risks as much as possible), zerg imo has the best tools for this playstyle.
It's imo no surprise that serral is almost only beatable in the mirror, where the fundamental aspects work quite differently (for example you won't build as many queens and be more or less safe with perfect positioning and creep spread).

Now ofc there are also player specific stylistic clashes which play a role, no doubt about that (and things like offline vs online play is also playing some role, some races play better in that scenario), but broadly speaking i think serral's skillset is best applied through the zerg race, and that is why other people cannot touch him, especially in series, even if they might play their races to the full potential.

On September 10 2023 02:52 The_Red_Viper wrote:

Serral is incredibly good and he plays the best race to be incredibly good at. That's it.

On September 10 2023 22:13 Argonauta wrote:



it was quite funny how Rotti was like... wow if Serral holds this is due a heavy lifting of the zerg cabal! And then he does.

On September 10 2023 22:54 Argonauta wrote:
Honestly, I think Cure played better games overall

On September 10 2023 22:58 Amoyu7 wrote:
Don‘t whine about balance here, Clem just showed you exactly how to beat Serral in late game in this tournament, knocking Serral out into the loser's bracket. Too bad he can't play TvT to save his life. Cure's handle of 200 supply army and especially Ghost micro is simply not good enough compared to Maru and Clem.

There's a running joke in Chinese community that Cure has a "200 supply debuff", he just look like a worse player when he hits max supply. This series is a perfect example.

On September 10 2023 22:58 Amoyu7 wrote:
The problem is Cure don't know how to play late game. He plays perfectly for first 10 mins, often enters late game slightly ahead, and then Serral just came back and thoroughly outplayed him in late game.

Don‘t whine about balance here, Clem just showed you exactly how to beat Serral in late game in this tournament, knocking Serral out into the loser's bracket. Too bad he can't play TvT to save his life. Cure's handle of 200 supply army and especially Ghost micro is simply not good enough compared to Maru and Clem.

There's a running joke in Chinese community that Cure has a "200 supply debuff", he just looks like a worse player when he hits max supply. This series is a perfect example.

On September 06 2023 20:41 Gescom wrote:
Serral is the kind of player who could win a tournament after marching thru the entire LB, so hold your tongues for a little while longer! ;}

On September 11 2023 01:00 tigera6 wrote:
The way Maru played just show how he doesnt prepare for specifically Serral, its the exact same build as he would do against Ragnarok or Solar, and he is super greedy/aggressive to the point its becoming a gamble. Every single game Maru does the 3CC build, Serral just feel safe at home, make some Roach and start to get going for the entire game, and wait for Maru to make a single mistake with his army movement or setup and jump on top of it. Byun at least try to do something risky and get a game out of it. Cure played 2 strange build in game 1 and 2 and he almost won both games.

What I have criticize Maru for, as a fanboy, is that he doesnt mix things up, like his mindset is that if he failed with some opening, he will try to do it again hoping it would be better.

On September 11 2023 01:39 HeroSandro wrote:

For a player who has won so many preparation based tournaments, he sure does suck at it 😛

On September 10 2023 22:48 Argonauta wrote:
Serral winning after that hold from Cure is omegalul

On September 11 2023 12:19 tigera6 wrote:

To be fair, I never think Maru as being the "preparation" player despite him winning many GSL tittles. Hes juts more talented than most KR players and just refuse to die when behind. TY and Cure have better preparation build than Maru imo, and Rogue is the ultimate prepared-build player. Maru just feel like doing whatever he think is good and keep heading straight into it, and if he failed he will try again harder till complete humiliations (Blizzcon 2018).

I think Serral used to be in the same boat, he just play his macro game as perfect as he can, and try to react to his opponent move. But these days, especially in ZvT, he start dictating the entire game, by forcing his opponent to react to his early build.