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Dark's ZvT lately really is not as good as it used to be
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France13023 Posts
On August 05 2023 06:09 QOGQOG wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2023 06:03 Nakajin wrote:
Sooo, if Cure lose this he will be eliminated having gone, at worst, 1-2 (2-4) against players who qualified, while Clem is 1-1 (2-3) against players who qualified AND lost 2-0 to Cure?
Stuff like this are why swiss format need to be banned forever. I think Clem is extremely overrated and would much rather have both Dark and Cure make it through. But no format is completely fair, and I think Swiss is probably the best option, even if I'd like the seeding tweaked. Show nested quote +On August 05 2023 05:45 Gescom wrote:On August 05 2023 05:37 TaKeTV wrote:
I dont think its fair to name herO as best protoss in his current form tbh Legitimately it's MaxPax at this stage. Heh. =/ Legitimately it's not and never will be if he keeps avoiding real tournaments.
Yeah herO dominated online cups as well, but playing well offline with all the nerves is difficult. If you are too anxious to even participate offline, I doubt you would play as well as at home there
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On August 05 2023 06:12 Charoisaur wrote:
Dark's ZvT lately really is not as good as it used to be
He just does too many damn blind build without any real scouting. Like how the F you lose 20+ Drone to a 3CC Banshee build?
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Canada8991 Posts
On August 05 2023 06:07 FCHK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2023 06:03 Nakajin wrote:
Sooo, if Cure lose this he will be eliminated having gone, at worst, 1-2 (2-4) against players who qualified, while Clem is 1-1 (2-3) against players who qualified AND lost 2-0 to Cure?
Stuff like this are why swiss format need to be banned forever. That can easily happen in round robin too, with the extra possibility of meaningless matches
Nah, in round robbin everyone play the same adversaries, it's on the players if the lose to weaker adversaires while beating better one. Swiss is super random because you can end up ahead of someone else because the order of match break your way and you have an easier bracket.
I'm not saying Clem deserve it less than (potentialy) Cure, but the format does a bad job sorting it out.
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On August 05 2023 06:12 Charoisaur wrote:
Dark's ZvT lately really is not as good as it used to be
Too tired to remember cloaked banshees exist. 22 drone kills vs no detection, ouch...
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Btw, if the seeding is based on group record, and assume that Cure win, then we have Maru vs Clem, Classic vs Cure, Serral vs Solar and Reynor vs Byun.
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On August 05 2023 06:14 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2023 06:07 FCHK wrote:On August 05 2023 06:03 Nakajin wrote:
Sooo, if Cure lose this he will be eliminated having gone, at worst, 1-2 (2-4) against players who qualified, while Clem is 1-1 (2-3) against players who qualified AND lost 2-0 to Cure?
Stuff like this are why swiss format need to be banned forever. That can easily happen in round robin too, with the extra possibility of meaningless matches Nah, in round robbin everyone play the same adversaries, it's on the players if the lose to weaker adversaires while beating better one. Swiss is super random because you can end up ahead of someone else because the order of match break your way and you have an easier bracket. I'm not saying Clem deserve it less than (potentialy) Cure, but the format does a bad job sorting it out.
Actually if Cure loses this, he would've gone 1-3 against players who qualified for Playoffs, which is way worse than Clem's 1-1
On August 05 2023 06:16 tigera6 wrote:
Btw, if the seeding is based on group record, and assume that Cure win, then we have Maru vs Clem, Classic vs Cure, Serral vs Solar and Reynor vs Byun.
Playoffs matchups should be
if Dark wins
Maru vs Clem
Classic vs Solar
Serral vs Dark
ByuN vs Reynor
if Cure wins 2:1
Maru vs Clem
Classic vs Cure
Serral/ByuN vs Reynor/Solar
if Cure wins 2:0
Maru vs Clem
Classic vs Solar
Serral vs Reynor
ByuN vs Cure
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Canada8991 Posts
On August 05 2023 06:19 FCHK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2023 06:14 Nakajin wrote:On August 05 2023 06:07 FCHK wrote:On August 05 2023 06:03 Nakajin wrote:
Sooo, if Cure lose this he will be eliminated having gone, at worst, 1-2 (2-4) against players who qualified, while Clem is 1-1 (2-3) against players who qualified AND lost 2-0 to Cure?
Stuff like this are why swiss format need to be banned forever. That can easily happen in round robin too, with the extra possibility of meaningless matches Nah, in round robbin everyone play the same adversaries, it's on the players if the lose to weaker adversaires while beating better one. Swiss is super random because you can end up ahead of someone else because the order of match break your way and you have an easier bracket. I'm not saying Clem deserve it less than (potentialy) Cure, but the format does a bad job sorting it out. Actually if Cure loses this, he would've gone 1-3 against players who qualified for Playoffs, which is way worse than Clem's 1-1
Oups, you're right.
But my point stand, he went 1-3 because he played 4 match against them, Clem played just two of those match. Clem beat Spirit to qualify, Cure beat Spirit to earn a match against Maru, then beat Clem 2-0 to earn a match against Serral. It make no sense.
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On August 05 2023 06:24 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2023 06:19 FCHK wrote:On August 05 2023 06:14 Nakajin wrote:On August 05 2023 06:07 FCHK wrote:On August 05 2023 06:03 Nakajin wrote:
Sooo, if Cure lose this he will be eliminated having gone, at worst, 1-2 (2-4) against players who qualified, while Clem is 1-1 (2-3) against players who qualified AND lost 2-0 to Cure?
Stuff like this are why swiss format need to be banned forever. That can easily happen in round robin too, with the extra possibility of meaningless matches Nah, in round robbin everyone play the same adversaries, it's on the players if the lose to weaker adversaires while beating better one. Swiss is super random because you can end up ahead of someone else because the order of match break your way and you have an easier bracket. I'm not saying Clem deserve it less than (potentialy) Cure, but the format does a bad job sorting it out. Actually if Cure loses this, he would've gone 1-3 against players who qualified for Playoffs, which is way worse than Clem's 1-1 Oups, you're right. But my point stand, he went 1-3 because he played 4 match against them, Clem played just two of those match. Clem beat Spirit to qualify, Cure beat Spirit to earn a match against Maru, then beat Clem 2-0 to earn a match against Serral. It make no sense.
Other options are GSL style groups where getting into an easy/hard group makes a huge difference (arguably less "fair") and Round Robin where there are a ton of pointless matches.
Cure wins anyway though.
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On August 05 2023 06:24 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2023 06:19 FCHK wrote:On August 05 2023 06:14 Nakajin wrote:On August 05 2023 06:07 FCHK wrote:On August 05 2023 06:03 Nakajin wrote:
Sooo, if Cure lose this he will be eliminated having gone, at worst, 1-2 (2-4) against players who qualified, while Clem is 1-1 (2-3) against players who qualified AND lost 2-0 to Cure?
Stuff like this are why swiss format need to be banned forever. That can easily happen in round robin too, with the extra possibility of meaningless matches Nah, in round robbin everyone play the same adversaries, it's on the players if the lose to weaker adversaires while beating better one. Swiss is super random because you can end up ahead of someone else because the order of match break your way and you have an easier bracket. I'm not saying Clem deserve it less than (potentialy) Cure, but the format does a bad job sorting it out. Actually if Cure loses this, he would've gone 1-3 against players who qualified for Playoffs, which is way worse than Clem's 1-1 Oups, you're right. But my point stand, he went 1-3 because he played 4 match against them, Clem played just two of those match. Clem beat Spirit to qualify, Cure beat Spirit to earn a match against Maru, then beat Clem 2-0 to earn a match against Serral. It make no sense.
Well you have to think that Cure would've gotten Classic if he didn't shock Serral.
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On August 05 2023 06:13 tigera6 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2023 06:12 Charoisaur wrote:
Dark's ZvT lately really is not as good as it used to be He just does too many damn blind build without any real scouting. Like how the F you lose 20+ Drone to a 3CC Banshee build?
His Roach-Ravager build isn't good either. He's the only player who uses it consistently.
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Canada8991 Posts
On August 05 2023 06:26 QOGQOG wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2023 06:24 Nakajin wrote:On August 05 2023 06:19 FCHK wrote:On August 05 2023 06:14 Nakajin wrote:On August 05 2023 06:07 FCHK wrote:On August 05 2023 06:03 Nakajin wrote:
Sooo, if Cure lose this he will be eliminated having gone, at worst, 1-2 (2-4) against players who qualified, while Clem is 1-1 (2-3) against players who qualified AND lost 2-0 to Cure?
Stuff like this are why swiss format need to be banned forever. That can easily happen in round robin too, with the extra possibility of meaningless matches Nah, in round robbin everyone play the same adversaries, it's on the players if the lose to weaker adversaires while beating better one. Swiss is super random because you can end up ahead of someone else because the order of match break your way and you have an easier bracket. I'm not saying Clem deserve it less than (potentialy) Cure, but the format does a bad job sorting it out. Actually if Cure loses this, he would've gone 1-3 against players who qualified for Playoffs, which is way worse than Clem's 1-1 Oups, you're right. But my point stand, he went 1-3 because he played 4 match against them, Clem played just two of those match. Clem beat Spirit to qualify, Cure beat Spirit to earn a match against Maru, then beat Clem 2-0 to earn a match against Serral. It make no sense. Other options are GSL style groups where getting into an easy/hard group makes a huge difference (arguably less "fair") and Round Robin where there are a ton of pointless matches. Cure wins anyway though.
Y'a nothing's perfect, this format just rub me the wrong way lol
Congratz to Cure, it does feel like the end of a career for Dark 
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On August 05 2023 06:27 geokilla wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2023 06:13 tigera6 wrote:On August 05 2023 06:12 Charoisaur wrote:
Dark's ZvT lately really is not as good as it used to be He just does too many damn blind build without any real scouting. Like how the F you lose 20+ Drone to a 3CC Banshee build? His Roach-Ravager build isn't good either. He's the only player who uses it consistently.
Yeah, additionally to the weakness against multitask, it's very hard to kill turtling terrans with that style which has been a massive issue for Dark lately. Not sure why he sticks with it
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On August 05 2023 06:27 Luolis wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2023 06:24 Nakajin wrote:On August 05 2023 06:19 FCHK wrote:On August 05 2023 06:14 Nakajin wrote:On August 05 2023 06:07 FCHK wrote:On August 05 2023 06:03 Nakajin wrote:
Sooo, if Cure lose this he will be eliminated having gone, at worst, 1-2 (2-4) against players who qualified, while Clem is 1-1 (2-3) against players who qualified AND lost 2-0 to Cure?
Stuff like this are why swiss format need to be banned forever. That can easily happen in round robin too, with the extra possibility of meaningless matches Nah, in round robbin everyone play the same adversaries, it's on the players if the lose to weaker adversaires while beating better one. Swiss is super random because you can end up ahead of someone else because the order of match break your way and you have an easier bracket. I'm not saying Clem deserve it less than (potentialy) Cure, but the format does a bad job sorting it out. Actually if Cure loses this, he would've gone 1-3 against players who qualified for Playoffs, which is way worse than Clem's 1-1 Oups, you're right. But my point stand, he went 1-3 because he played 4 match against them, Clem played just two of those match. Clem beat Spirit to qualify, Cure beat Spirit to earn a match against Maru, then beat Clem 2-0 to earn a match against Serral. It make no sense. Well you have to think that Cure would've gotten Classic if he didn't shock Serral.
Actually he would've gotten ByuN in that case
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On August 05 2023 06:30 FCHK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2023 06:27 Luolis wrote:On August 05 2023 06:24 Nakajin wrote:On August 05 2023 06:19 FCHK wrote:On August 05 2023 06:14 Nakajin wrote:On August 05 2023 06:07 FCHK wrote:On August 05 2023 06:03 Nakajin wrote:
Sooo, if Cure lose this he will be eliminated having gone, at worst, 1-2 (2-4) against players who qualified, while Clem is 1-1 (2-3) against players who qualified AND lost 2-0 to Cure?
Stuff like this are why swiss format need to be banned forever. That can easily happen in round robin too, with the extra possibility of meaningless matches Nah, in round robbin everyone play the same adversaries, it's on the players if the lose to weaker adversaires while beating better one. Swiss is super random because you can end up ahead of someone else because the order of match break your way and you have an easier bracket. I'm not saying Clem deserve it less than (potentialy) Cure, but the format does a bad job sorting it out. Actually if Cure loses this, he would've gone 1-3 against players who qualified for Playoffs, which is way worse than Clem's 1-1 Oups, you're right. But my point stand, he went 1-3 because he played 4 match against them, Clem played just two of those match. Clem beat Spirit to qualify, Cure beat Spirit to earn a match against Maru, then beat Clem 2-0 to earn a match against Serral. It make no sense. Well you have to think that Cure would've gotten Classic if he didn't shock Serral. Actually he would've gotten ByuN in that case
Well, close enough 
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France13023 Posts
Sad to see Dark lose here :/.
Should be an interesting day of playoffs tomorrow + the legends!
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Northern Ireland27477 Posts
On August 05 2023 06:28 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2023 06:26 QOGQOG wrote:On August 05 2023 06:24 Nakajin wrote:On August 05 2023 06:19 FCHK wrote:On August 05 2023 06:14 Nakajin wrote:On August 05 2023 06:07 FCHK wrote:On August 05 2023 06:03 Nakajin wrote:
Sooo, if Cure lose this he will be eliminated having gone, at worst, 1-2 (2-4) against players who qualified, while Clem is 1-1 (2-3) against players who qualified AND lost 2-0 to Cure?
Stuff like this are why swiss format need to be banned forever. That can easily happen in round robin too, with the extra possibility of meaningless matches Nah, in round robbin everyone play the same adversaries, it's on the players if the lose to weaker adversaires while beating better one. Swiss is super random because you can end up ahead of someone else because the order of match break your way and you have an easier bracket. I'm not saying Clem deserve it less than (potentialy) Cure, but the format does a bad job sorting it out. Actually if Cure loses this, he would've gone 1-3 against players who qualified for Playoffs, which is way worse than Clem's 1-1 Oups, you're right. But my point stand, he went 1-3 because he played 4 match against them, Clem played just two of those match. Clem beat Spirit to qualify, Cure beat Spirit to earn a match against Maru, then beat Clem 2-0 to earn a match against Serral. It make no sense. Other options are GSL style groups where getting into an easy/hard group makes a huge difference (arguably less "fair") and Round Robin where there are a ton of pointless matches. Cure wins anyway though. Y'a nothing's perfect, this format just rub me the wrong way lol Congratz to Cure, it does feel like the end of a career for Dark
He’s gone from versatile to stubbornly unorthodox lately, and he still often makes it work
I’m convinced at this stage he is either handicapping himself for motivation or else just really, really enjoys the fungal/bile combo
What a player though, think people sleep on him a bit and how consistently competitive he’s been through even brutal eras
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They screwed up the bracket by ranking Cure below Solar
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France13023 Posts
Classic got the toughest draw possible for him…
Serral has got a relatively easy path to the finals, while Maru has a decent path as well
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EPT
