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[GSL 2023] Code S:Season 2 - Group C - Page 2

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darklycid 3540 Posts July 11 2023 12:05 GMT #21 Darks earlygames in pvz really tend to be trainwrecks :D

catplanetcatplanet 3834 Posts July 11 2023 12:15 GMT #22 Creator NO

Die4Ever United States17726 Posts July 11 2023 12:42 GMT #23 lmao the reaper grenade and widow mine combo, that wasn't even good pretty sure the widow mine would've done more damage without the reaper grenade, but it looked awesome

Schelim Austria11528 Posts July 11 2023 12:43 GMT #24 that looked scary af

Elentos 55566 Posts July 11 2023 12:47 GMT #25 This was basically the same as TY vs Maru last week

darklycid 3540 Posts July 11 2023 12:52 GMT #26 rematch curse time?

Vindicare605 United States16121 Posts July 11 2023 13:06 GMT #27 That's the second time that Creator has been caught with that Artosis pylon powering his gates and Robo.

darklycid 3540 Posts July 11 2023 13:14 GMT #28 Gumiho suffering from terran syndrome, where you win if you just attack with all your force and go into mulittasking because you think you need to

Elentos 55566 Posts July 11 2023 13:41 GMT #29 Oh, Creator...

darklycid 3540 Posts July 11 2023 13:41 GMT #30 Poor creator

Schelim Austria11528 Posts July 11 2023 13:44 GMT #31 hell yeah Gumigod

catplanetcatplanet 3834 Posts July 11 2023 13:46 GMT #32 another line of lore added to the tale of the most tragic player in sc2 history

swarminfestor Malaysia2449 Posts July 11 2023 13:47 GMT #33 Wrong move to take two adepts to kill a reaper. One should scout first. Maybe Creator has some time to prepare the incoming attack. Another one is to not blink all the stalkers in the clump of terran armies just for the purpose of killing tanks. Anyway kudos for gumigod.

SharkStarcraft Austria2255 Posts July 11 2023 14:25 GMT #34 Creator in Match 5 is about 2K MMR lower all of a sudden. Wonder when these next Protoss nerfs are finally coming!!

tigera6 3478 Posts July 11 2023 14:44 GMT #35 Lets hope Trap, Parting and Zest decide that they will comeback to SC2 after military. Nobody else is carrying Protoss race right now, and the only guy who can is not playing offline matches.

Yoshi Kirishima United States10366 Posts July 11 2023 17:28 GMT #36 Did creator really need that observer instead of trying to rush the immortal? Was it in case Gumiho might have banshee followup or was it for vision? Felt like he could have cancelled the WP at 60% when he saw the attack coming too and rushed the immortal out... Sad Creator didn't advance, Protoss seems to be in a rough spot... those early Terran pushes are pretty easy to execute but it seems defending as Protoss takes so much work

Gescom Canada3509 Posts July 12 2023 01:24 GMT #37 On July 11 2023 09:12 Gescom wrote: Special + Creator coming thru. Let's see it. Just like coach drew it up!

Yoshi Kirishima United States10366 Posts July 12 2023 03:04 GMT #38 This is a random thought, is it possible that the game may have evolved to a point where reverting far away Pylon warp-ins to be ~4 seconds instead of ~11 might help Protoss? (Or even ~8?) It feels like Protoss lacks options to be a threat and push in the early game and early-mid game, while Terran has powerful early-mid pushes and Zerg has powerful Ravager pushes, where they are low committment yet powerful. Protoss pushes can be quite strong, but are usually moderately or heavily committal, often considered all-in. Protoss having the option to skip Robo/WP and making Pylons a bit more reliable (15 secs might be enough rather than 20), would help them with their high costs in the early-mid game that usually result in them not having a lot of army to push with. I do remember it was changed so that Protoss units can be buffed to be stronger, without worrying about broken push timing / weaker defender's advantage. But now it seems like Protoss lacks options to push, so maybe either Protoss needs buffs in strength, or maybe the far away warp-ins can be rebuffed slightly? And if we prefer Protoss having fewer push options since they're supposed to be the more expensive/tech heavy race, what about partially reverting overcharge or giving them more help to defend those Terran/Zerg pushes? Maybe batteries can have have slightly more HP or heal slightly more to make up for the weaker overcharge. I think buffing batteries is a relatively safe and fair way to re-buff defense without worrying about gameplay feeling as no-fun as the old overcharge. It can reward Protoss players poking and being active with their units before the main engagement, to try to make full use of the energy. Another possibility is slightly buffing battery energy regeneration so that it encourages players to be more active than to try to bank up a lot of energy. I know it's a complicated thing but i really wish to see Protoss in a better and more well-rounded state. It does feel like their armies are often weak, especially for composition switching to be less fluid than Terran/Zerg, and Protoss compositions sometimes need such specific compositions to deal with Terran/Zerg options. You have to work your Stalkers and other units so hard to get their value. I wonder if Stalkers' damage can be altered slightly from 13 (+5 armored) to 14 (+4 armored) so that they do slightly better vs Zerglings, Ravagers, Queens, Mutalisks, and MMM? (I think Hellions can be buffed similarly from 8 (+6 Light) to 9 (+5 Light) so that Hellion vs Stalker still remains about the same, and to buff early-mid Hellion comps and Mech in general, now that AA missile is weaker). I also don't think it looks right to see Zerg able to have mass Lurkers beeline into your base so quickly and easily even if they do have the advantage. It's not fun watching games snowball so fast to an ending. I wonder if Lurkers really need to move that fast, and if we can rework them slightly so that mass Lurkers scale less cost efficiently. Perhaps their unit size can be increased slightly for example, so that 16 Lurkers take up the space that 20 Lurkers currently do, thus effecting their damage density. Or maybe Lurker HP can just be reduced slightly since their DPS is already so high. (I think we can increase Disruptor unit collission too so that mass Disruptor is also a bit less efficient, and we see Disruptors split up more around the map to hold positions)

Gescom Canada3509 Posts July 12 2023 03:48 GMT #39 ^ Citing Protoss balance concerns after watching Creator throw games doing Creator things is bizarre. They're not gonna change fundamentals like Stalker damage when Ladder, all the way up to High GM, is completely healthy for Protoss. It's the small sample size of GSL players and maybe the map pool. We had 5P 3Z in the GSL RO16.. no one is gonna say Zerg is in a bad place balance-wise. Conversely, the HomeStory Cup RO8 was 5Z, 2P, 1T, with the bad bracket luck to have a protoss mirror. KR is dominated by Terrans, EU by Zerg, and NA by Protoss. Perhaps that is "balance". Heh. If we're going to make changes at this point they need to be hyper subtle. Things like 5-10% reductions in medivac boost speed or widow mine burrow speed or yes, lurker/swarm host movement speed.

tigera6 3478 Posts July 12 2023 04:12 GMT #40 My simple suggestion would be make the Robo unit cheaper, they are the backbone of Protoss army in most PvT fight so having them earlier and more would solve part of the problem. Either way, I do agree that Protoss just missing their top players at the moment. If you stack up all the top player in each race, the talent level is lopsided to Terran and Zerg, Serral/Reynor/Dark/Solar and Maru/Cure/Clem/Byun are definitely better than herO/MaxPax/Classic and whoever else you want to throw in between Creator-Showtime-Astrea.

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