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[IEM] Katowice 2023 - Group Stage Day 3 + Playoffs RO12 -…

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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[Page 23] Balance whining will be aggressively moderated

-Wax
[Phantom]
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
Mexico2170 Posts
February 11 2023 15:50 GMT
#281
I feel Gumiho could ahve gotten the hive if he reacted earlier
WriterTeamLiquid Staff writer since 2014 @Mortal_Phantom
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18194 Posts
February 11 2023 15:51 GMT
#282
On February 12 2023 00:50 [Phantom] wrote:
I feel Gumiho could ahve gotten the hive if he reacted earlier

Agree. If he had stimmed and gunned straight for it rather than shooting the drones and the refinery for a bit, and stimming quite late.
Luolis
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Finland7155 Posts
February 11 2023 15:59 GMT
#283
Gumi should just forget bio.
pro cheese woman / Its never Sunny in Finland. Perkele / FinnishStarcraftTrivia
tigera6
Profile Joined March 2021
3454 Posts
February 11 2023 16:01 GMT
#284
On February 12 2023 00:46 Acrofales wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 12 2023 00:13 tigera6 wrote:
On February 11 2023 23:57 Luolis wrote:
On February 11 2023 23:54 tigera6 wrote:
Its completely random, no group matching, other than you cant play against guys in the same group before Ro4

It's not actually random. The ro12 games go as B2-C3, C2-D3, D2-A3 and A2-B3.

Its random in term of which group is match against which other groups. pre-determined would be based on some kind of ranking or group seeding, like A3-B2 and A2-B3.

It is almost certainly not random. The Ro12 is

A2-B3
B2-C3
C2-D3
D2-A3

That isn't random.

Then the Ro8 is:

A2B3-C1
B2C3-D1
C2D3-A1
D2A3-B1

So again, just rotated. And then finally they are set up in such a way that the numbers 1 and 2 of any group can't face each other again before the final, with the Ro4 being:

B2C3D1 vs C2D3A1
D2A3B1 vs A2B3C1

So yeah, very far from random. Not the seeding you were expecting, but very much seeded.

I did specificly said that players from the same group cant meet again until the Ro4 and 1st/2nd of the same group cant play till the Final. Thats the only rule they need to follow.
The randomness of this, is the fact that they can rotate the group order. Doesnt have to be that B2C3 go with D1, could be with A1 as well and the rest of the bracket change accordingly. We ended up with one that they show us without knowing if there is any other rules that they use.
SmoKim
Profile Joined March 2010
Denmark10305 Posts
February 11 2023 16:04 GMT
#285
Tastosis casting Solar vs Gumiho? What is this, GSL reunion?

Hope they will do the finals.
"LOL I have 202 supply right now (3 minutes later)..."LOL NOW I HAVE 220 SUPPLY SUP?!?!?" - Mondragon
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18194 Posts
February 11 2023 16:08 GMT
#286
On February 12 2023 01:01 tigera6 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 12 2023 00:46 Acrofales wrote:
On February 12 2023 00:13 tigera6 wrote:
On February 11 2023 23:57 Luolis wrote:
On February 11 2023 23:54 tigera6 wrote:
Its completely random, no group matching, other than you cant play against guys in the same group before Ro4

It's not actually random. The ro12 games go as B2-C3, C2-D3, D2-A3 and A2-B3.

Its random in term of which group is match against which other groups. pre-determined would be based on some kind of ranking or group seeding, like A3-B2 and A2-B3.

It is almost certainly not random. The Ro12 is

A2-B3
B2-C3
C2-D3
D2-A3

That isn't random.

Then the Ro8 is:

A2B3-C1
B2C3-D1
C2D3-A1
D2A3-B1

So again, just rotated. And then finally they are set up in such a way that the numbers 1 and 2 of any group can't face each other again before the final, with the Ro4 being:

B2C3D1 vs C2D3A1
D2A3B1 vs A2B3C1

So yeah, very far from random. Not the seeding you were expecting, but very much seeded.

I did specificly said that players from the same group cant meet again until the Ro4 and 1st/2nd of the same group cant play till the Final. Thats the only rule they need to follow.
The randomness of this, is the fact that they can rotate the group order. Doesnt have to be that B2C3 go with D1, could be with A1 as well and the rest of the bracket change accordingly. We ended up with one that they show us without knowing if there is any other rules that they use.


Well, that would *also* not be random. Your accusation is thus not that they are randomizing the bracket but that they are fixing the bracket. That's a lot stronger accusation, and I'd say that it's on you to provide any evidence of that in the face of a fairly straightforward rotational setup.
ssg
Profile Joined July 2011
United States1775 Posts
February 11 2023 16:08 GMT
#287
One second slow on that hellion run by and I think that costs him the game
Captain Peabody
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States3128 Posts
February 11 2023 16:13 GMT
#288
damn Gumiho really losing so much to that random runby
Dies Irae venit. youtube.com/SnobbinsFilms
Captain Peabody
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States3128 Posts
February 11 2023 16:14 GMT
#289
even though Solar hasn't attacked yet Gumiho seems entirely dead rn?
Dies Irae venit. youtube.com/SnobbinsFilms
Vindicare605
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States16117 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-02-11 16:20:44
February 11 2023 16:16 GMT
#290
I dunno. It looks like Gumiho threw everything he had into that game 2 build and when it barely won, he just didn't have anything else that could even the playing field against Solar who had him beat in a straight up game.

Solar continues to show that his TvZ is seriously top class. He doesn't get the respect for how good he is in that match up that he should because of how much Maru always beats up on him.

It's such a bad draw for him to draw Maru as his next opponent. If he had any other Terran instead he'd dismantle them just like he did to Gumiho.
aka: KTVindicare the Geeky Bartender
Luolis
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Finland7155 Posts
February 11 2023 16:17 GMT
#291
Gumiho shouldve just played mech. His bio play is so subpar.
pro cheese woman / Its never Sunny in Finland. Perkele / FinnishStarcraftTrivia
Waxangel
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States33519 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-02-11 16:20:07
February 11 2023 16:19 GMT
#292
On February 12 2023 01:17 Luolis wrote:
Gumiho shouldve just played mech. His bio play is so subpar.


He never forces mech every game of a series though; probably knows he's too easily blind countered if he does

AdministratorHey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
Luolis
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Finland7155 Posts
February 11 2023 16:20 GMT
#293
On February 12 2023 01:19 Waxangel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 12 2023 01:17 Luolis wrote:
Gumiho shouldve just played mech. His bio play is so subpar.


He never forces mech every game of a series though; probably knows he's too easily blind countered if eh does

I can understand the thought process behind it, but i have no idea how he ever would win with his bio. At no place it looked like he had any chances.
pro cheese woman / Its never Sunny in Finland. Perkele / FinnishStarcraftTrivia
Nakajin
Profile Blog Joined September 2014
Canada8989 Posts
February 11 2023 16:20 GMT
#294
I see the Cabal has begun to move
Writerhttp://i.imgur.com/9p6ufcB.jpg
Vindicare605
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States16117 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-02-11 16:24:15
February 11 2023 16:22 GMT
#295
On February 12 2023 01:20 Luolis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 12 2023 01:19 Waxangel wrote:
On February 12 2023 01:17 Luolis wrote:
Gumiho shouldve just played mech. His bio play is so subpar.


He never forces mech every game of a series though; probably knows he's too easily blind countered if eh does

I can understand the thought process behind it, but i have no idea how he ever would win with his bio. At no place it looked like he had any chances.


Nah Wax is right. At this level you need to be able to bring out Bio at least sometimes in a series to keep the Zerg honest. If Zerg knows you're going to go Mech every game it's too easy for them to just blind counter you and then the series is even easier for them.

TBH there isn't a TvZ game much easier than a Zerg who blind counters expecting Mech only to be hit with Bio. You gotta keep that fear in them to have a chance.
aka: KTVindicare the Geeky Bartender
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
February 11 2023 16:23 GMT
#296
Solar vs Maru ro8? It might not be a ZvZvZvZ ro4 after all !
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
[Phantom]
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
Mexico2170 Posts
February 11 2023 16:23 GMT
#297
Zergs runbys very strong
WriterTeamLiquid Staff writer since 2014 @Mortal_Phantom
geokilla
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada8245 Posts
February 11 2023 16:23 GMT
#298
Solar with some very good English. Wish the other Koreans spoke more English.
Luolis
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Finland7155 Posts
February 11 2023 16:23 GMT
#299
On February 12 2023 01:22 Vindicare605 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 12 2023 01:20 Luolis wrote:
On February 12 2023 01:19 Waxangel wrote:
On February 12 2023 01:17 Luolis wrote:
Gumiho shouldve just played mech. His bio play is so subpar.


He never forces mech every game of a series though; probably knows he's too easily blind countered if eh does

I can understand the thought process behind it, but i have no idea how he ever would win with his bio. At no place it looked like he had any chances.


Nah Wax is right. At this level you need to be able to bring out Bio at least sometimes in a series to keep the Zerg honest. If Zerg knows you're going to go Mech every game it's too easy for them to just blind counter you and then the series is even easier for them.

I mean as i said, i understand the thought process. Problem is that Gumiho's bio play is complete garbo.
pro cheese woman / Its never Sunny in Finland. Perkele / FinnishStarcraftTrivia
Captain Peabody
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States3128 Posts
February 11 2023 16:24 GMT
#300
I don't think Gumiho's bio is that hopeless. Solar is just one of the most solid adaptable Zergs in the world, he did a great job deflecting Gumi's attempts to throw him off guard.
Dies Irae venit. youtube.com/SnobbinsFilms
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