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JJH777
United States4408 Posts
On February 10 2023 00:38 Vindicare605 wrote: Baneling runbys are a thing in all 3 match ups. This isn't why Protoss is a volatile race. They aren't anywhere near as strong vs Z/T as against Protoss. | ||
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tigera6
3406 Posts
On February 10 2023 00:48 JJH777 wrote: They aren't anywhere near as strong vs Z/T as against Protoss. Terran got the Sensor tower, and Zerg got vision through creep, so they can react in time. Protoss wont know a thing until those things start going near the mineral line, unless you fully walling up the base and keep doing that for the entire game. | ||
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TheLordofAwesome
Korea (South)2655 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
On February 10 2023 00:46 Vindicare605 wrote: LOL ok dude. Tanks aren't important vs Zerg. Vikings aren't important vs Protoss. I must be mistaken, Terran only ever wins every game in every match up with Marines and Marauders. Obvious fact: Starport units don't define Terran's ability to win the way Robo units do for Protoss Some idiotic strawman: "Oh, so you're saying no Starport unit has ANY value, at ANY point, for ANY reason? Bio units are the only unikts Terran has EVER made? Wow, what a stupid argument that you, and definitely not I, have made there, dude." | ||
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ZeroByte13
768 Posts
Wasn't it because Terrans got quite good at sniping them? But then both banelings goth buffed AND zerg learned to use them better, and now they're really strong. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16071 Posts
On February 10 2023 00:48 JJH777 wrote: They aren't anywhere near as strong vs Z/T as against Protoss. And why is that? There is nothing in Terran design that makes Banelings worse vs their workers. They do just as much damage. But Terrans leave defensive units behind to counter them and Terrans build their bases in such a way to mitigate their damage. The only structure that actually does anything to help block them is the Planetary Fortress which isn't available at every base. When Protoss "gameplay" involves keeping all of their units in one big slow moving clump and moving it around only in a single spot on the map at a time like Astrea was doing just now, then of course it's easy to just pick him apart with runbys because Reynor knows where his units are at every moment of the game and of course he has no static defense because that's something else that Protoss players have just unanimously decided isn't worth making while they lose dozens of probes to preventable raids. It's a product of both A: Map design favoring wide open expansions that are hard to wall and B: Protoss not making the effort to sim city their expansions in the first place. If Terran players refused to sim city theirs they'd be taking just as much damage from runbys as Protoss do. | ||
Poopi
France12888 Posts
On February 10 2023 00:51 TheLordofAwesome wrote: Baneling +5 hp should be reverted. Banelings were fine in WoL and HotS, why were they ever buffed in LotV in the first place? Because ByuN destroyed everyone at the time | ||
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Elentos
55553 Posts
On February 10 2023 00:54 Vindicare605 wrote: And why is that? There is nothing in Terran design that makes Banelings worse vs their workers. They do just as much damage. Terran workers have 5 extra health...  | ||
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ZeroByte13
768 Posts
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JJH777
United States4408 Posts
On February 10 2023 00:54 Vindicare605 wrote: And why is that? There is nothing in Terran design that makes them any worse. They do just as much damage. But Terrans leave defensive units behind to counter them and Terrans build their bases in such a way to mitigate their damage. The only structure that actually does anything to help block them is the Planetary Fortress which isn't available at every base. When Protoss "gameplay" involves keeping all of their units in one big slow moving clump and moving it around only in a single spot on the map at a time like Astrea was doing just now, then of course it's easy to just pick him apart with runbys because Reynor knows where his units are at every moment of the game and of course he has no static defense because that's something else that Protoss players have just unanimously decided isn't worth making while they lose dozens of probes to preventable raids. It's a product of both A: Map design favoring wide open expansions that are hard to wall and Protoss not making the effort to sim city their expansions in the first place. If Terran players refused to sim city theirs they'd be taking just as much damage from runbys as Protoss do. Scvs have 45hp. Give probes 45hp and there's a pretty good chance Astrea wins that game. Hell they don't even have to do that, that game was especially frustrating because of the disruptor nerf. There were so many instances where Astrea would have gotten more kills on Reynors army with the old radius which could have swung the momentum of that game. Reynor owes the patch for being 2-0 in this group. Just rollback the disruptor nerf. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16071 Posts
Which doesn't matter when Reynor is sending 12-16 banelings at a time like he was against Astrea just now. | ||
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Elentos
55553 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States16071 Posts
On February 10 2023 00:56 JJH777 wrote: Scvs have 45hp. Give probes 45hp and there's a pretty good chance Astrea wins that game. Hell they don't even have to do that, that game was especially frustrating because of the disruptor nerf. There were so many instances where Astrea would have gotten more kills on Reynors army with the old radius which could have swung the momentum of that game. Reynor owes the patch for being 2-0 in this group. Just rollback the disruptor nerf. I'd say the map played a much bigger role, but I'd be fine reverting the Disruptor nerf as well. I'd be fine reverting the entire damn patch since Zerg didn't need buffs. I'm just saying, it's not Banelings being unfair vs Protoss that has made them such a volatile race. That's a bunch of bologna, Protoss has MANY design flaws in their army design that has encouraged a volatile playstyle from the players that play it. One single type of Zerg harassment isn't causing all of that. | ||
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ZeroByte13
768 Posts
A few such situations, and it can be 10-20+ probes in just one game. Oh, and I'm not saying this is the main problem in PvZ. More like - these 5hp actually DO matter. | ||
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
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Topin
Peru10081 Posts
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TheLordofAwesome
Korea (South)2655 Posts
On February 10 2023 01:00 ZeroByte13 wrote: Well, sometimes only one baneling survives - and then it's often a difference between 0 probes killed and 10 probes killed. A few such situations, and it can be 10-20+ probes in just one game. Oh, and I'm not saying this is the main problem in PvZ. More like - these 5hp actually DO matter. Yeah there are plenty of times when playing terran where one single bane out of ten or whatever gets past the bunker / mine at my third and hits 6 scvs in the mineral line, but it doesn't kill a single one. And I can just amove a boosted medivac at the mineral line and it will automatically heal all the scvs to full. Protoss doesn't have either of those luxuries. | ||
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TheLordofAwesome
Korea (South)2655 Posts
herO's attacks are so much sharper than any other protoss, it's very noticeable to see. Solar seems to just be worse at every aspect of maxed roach wars in ZvZ than Elazer or not... | ||
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Topin
Peru10081 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
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