EPTGSL Code S
Global StarCraft II League/2022/Season 1Streams & Casters
Format
- Playoffs:
- Single-elimination bracket.
- Semifinals matches are Bo5.
- Finals are Bo7.
Map Pool
Grand Finals
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/2838.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/1099.jpg)
Results
CSS: FO-nTTaX
Awesomeness: Panda
Banner: GSL
[GSL 2022] Code S - Grand Finals
| Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments |
Waxangel
United States33201 Posts
Map Pool CSS: FO-nTTaX Awesomeness: Panda Banner: GSL | ||
Poopi
France12761 Posts
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Die4Ever
United States17611 Posts
On May 04 2022 06:22 Poopi wrote: I have the feeling this will be a good GSL final and not one sided I respect your optimism, hoping for Creator to win it but then again maybe that delays a patch to nerf zerg lol | ||
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MarianoSC2
Slovakia1855 Posts
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Nakajin
Canada8988 Posts
 Very nice preview clip btw, thanks for putting in the thread | ||
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ShowTheLights
Korea (South)1669 Posts
Creator wins one off two base push | ||
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2429 Posts
Stick to the topic again, I am gonna support for either one of them to win. | ||
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SHODAN
United Kingdom1060 Posts
heart = rogue 3:4 creator | ||
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Cricketer12
United States13969 Posts
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angry_maia
301 Posts
4-2 or 4-1 Rogue. | ||
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umelbumel
2026 Posts
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Schelim
Austria11528 Posts
i hope Creator brings out some really wild shit so we can have an entertaining series. like a mommaship rush into offensive recalling a bunch of adepts or some shit like that. | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24192 Posts
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Poopi
France12761 Posts
On May 04 2022 16:58 umelbumel wrote: Creator will win it and it will be the best thing we have ever seen in SC2 History. Truer words can hardly be spoken  MarineKing lost all those finals so other Prime members like ByuN, Maru and now Creator can win in the future | ||
opterown
Australia54784 Posts
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Niravroh
165 Posts
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Kitai
United States869 Posts
On May 04 2022 16:58 umelbumel wrote: Creator will win it and it will be the best thing we have ever seen in SC2 History. Gonna be hard to compete with Serral's 2018 WC and soO's 2019 IEM  | ||
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Little-Chimp
Canada948 Posts
On May 04 2022 16:58 umelbumel wrote: Creator will win it and it will be the best thing we have ever seen in SC2 History. I'm ready for this | ||
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dbRic1203
Germany2655 Posts
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Poopi
France12761 Posts
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Andi_Goldberger
Germany1608 Posts
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umelbumel
2026 Posts
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buzz_bender
445 Posts
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10317 Posts
So far, so cool to see a crowd! Stadium is smaller than I expected but it's a good size/environment for this size of crowd!! Really awesome to hear they sold out seats. I'm predicting 4-3 Rogue Creator, but I'd really like Creator to win. | ||
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Andi_Goldberger
Germany1608 Posts
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10317 Posts
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Andi_Goldberger
Germany1608 Posts
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umelbumel
2026 Posts
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Durnuu
13319 Posts
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pandorasheep
73 Posts
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Schelim
Austria11528 Posts
On May 05 2022 17:20 pandorasheep wrote: Rogue just said the last Katowice, he was physically tired. Theres a reason Serral won that one. If IEM had it in a more central location, it would've been more fair to the Koreans. The one and only reason we didn't have an all Korean play offs at the last Katowice was because they were all severely jetlagged this is totally the perfect thread for this discussion | ||
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Poopi
France12761 Posts
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Die4Ever
United States17611 Posts
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Poopi
France12761 Posts
On May 05 2022 17:24 Die4Ever wrote: I'm so hyped right now, oh man those clips from when Creator was 14 years old lol Same but I want it to start already! | ||
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-KG-
Denmark1204 Posts
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Die4Ever
United States17611 Posts
On May 05 2022 17:09 Andi_Goldberger wrote: its been so long since gsl is not played in the studio! nice yep, love to see it! nice venue for the final, and a super hype match to go with it, it's no wonder they sold out | ||
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
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umelbumel
2026 Posts
On May 05 2022 17:25 -KG- wrote: If Creator doesn't win this the world is just evil and wrong qft | ||
digmouse
China6327 Posts
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10317 Posts
But really, I'm just hoping for some good games, and show a bit of how cool and varied the gameplay in LotV is now. I feel a lot of eyes are on this, a lot of people watching who haven't checked on SC2 in a long time. | ||
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Durnuu
13319 Posts
On May 05 2022 17:26 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: If Creator beats Maru, Trap, and Rogue in the same tournament... that would actually be one of the most legendary runs in GSL ever. But really, I'm just hoping for some good games, and show a bit of how cool and varied the gameplay in LotV is now. I feel a lot of eyes are on this, a lot of people watching who haven't checked on SC2 in a long time. "Varied" isn't the adjective I would use for LotV's gameplay | ||
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Andi_Goldberger
Germany1608 Posts
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Die4Ever
United States17611 Posts
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elijahlucas
2 Posts
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Andi_Goldberger
Germany1608 Posts
e: rip  | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15880 Posts
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sudete
Singapore3054 Posts
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yubo56
686 Posts
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yubo56
686 Posts
Edit: OMG THE CANCELLED NAT | ||
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Die4Ever
United States17611 Posts
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digmouse
China6327 Posts
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Andi_Goldberger
Germany1608 Posts
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Azzur
Australia6255 Posts
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Schelim
Austria11528 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany15880 Posts
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Durnuu
13319 Posts
On May 05 2022 17:41 Charoisaur wrote: will this become the worst GSL finals of all time? I don't know, I'm entertained | ||
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HeroSandro
521 Posts
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Die4Ever
United States17611 Posts
On May 05 2022 17:41 Charoisaur wrote: will this become the worst GSL finals of all time? well that 1st game was already better than MC vs Seed, or NesTea vs Inca | ||
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yht9657
1810 Posts
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Azzur
Australia6255 Posts
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digmouse
China6327 Posts
On May 05 2022 17:41 Charoisaur wrote: will this become the worst GSL finals of all time? If it continues like this, might actually rival Sniper's win or Nestea clapping Inca. | ||
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pandorasheep
73 Posts
On May 05 2022 17:41 Charoisaur wrote: will this become the worst GSL finals of all time? Think it will be worse than nested vs inca? | ||
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Die4Ever
United States17611 Posts
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[PkF] Wire
France24192 Posts
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Durnuu
13319 Posts
On May 05 2022 17:44 Die4Ever wrote: I wonder if Rogue just has 7 cheeses planned out lol Just 4 | ||
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Durnuu
13319 Posts
On May 05 2022 17:42 digmouse wrote: If it continues like this, might actually rival Sniper's win or Nestea clapping Inca. Sniper vs Hyun was a good finals wtf, just because it's ZvZ doesn't automatically mean it's bad | ||
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tigera6
3221 Posts
On May 05 2022 17:44 [PkF] Wire wrote: the level of evil geniusness of that second game was out of the charts. Poor Creator. I think Ragnarok did just that one against, herO in the Ro20? | ||
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digmouse
China6327 Posts
On May 05 2022 17:44 Die4Ever wrote: I wonder if Rogue just has 7 cheeses planned out lol Considering how much experience Rogue has in these scenarios, and that Creator's only offline BO7 experience was nearly a decade ago? Not surprised if he actually planned to do that. | ||
serendipitous
Canada195 Posts
Or is sOs Protoss Rogue | ||
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pandorasheep
73 Posts
On May 05 2022 17:45 serendipitous wrote: I want to get off the Zerg sOs wild ride Or is sOs Protoss Rogue Wouldn't doubt it if they helped each other make BS builds. Looks like Terran is the only race who doesn't need to rely on gimmicks to win. You have to be skilled to play Terran | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24192 Posts
hahahaha I actually don't think he has only cheeses planned. He definitely had those two planned to the second (the Berlingrad one for sure)... We'll see. | ||
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Durnuu
13319 Posts
On May 05 2022 17:46 pandorasheep wrote: Wouldn't doubt it if they helped each other make BS builds. Looks like Terran is the only race who doesn't need to rely on gimmicks to win. You have to be skilled to play Terran Funny, I remember Maru winning GSLs with a ton of proxies | ||
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
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[PkF] Wire
France24192 Posts
On May 05 2022 17:45 tigera6 wrote: I think Ragnarok did just that one against, herO in the Ro20? oh I'm pretty sure that was not a complete novelty, but to pull that out so perfectly in a GSL finals is textbook evil Rogue | ||
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SHODAN
United Kingdom1060 Posts
On May 05 2022 17:46 pandorasheep wrote: Wouldn't doubt it if they helped each other make BS builds. Looks like Terran is the only race who doesn't need to rely on gimmicks to win. You have to be skilled to play Terran mvp vs squirtle game 7. name a more iconic BS build | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24192 Posts
On May 05 2022 17:49 Morbidius wrote: Rogue needs to write the great book of Zerg Bullshit. He literally is that book | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24192 Posts
On May 05 2022 17:45 digmouse wrote: Considering how much experience Rogue has in these scenarios, and that Creator's only offline BO7 experience was nearly a decade ago? Not surprised if he actually planned to do that. makes sense when you think about it. That's a bit chilling for us viewers, but that makes sense. | ||
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Andi_Goldberger
Germany1608 Posts
On May 05 2022 17:46 pandorasheep wrote: Wouldn't doubt it if they helped each other make BS builds. Looks like Terran is the only race who doesn't need to rely on gimmicks to win. You have to be skilled to play Terran hahaha saying this in a gsl finals thread is peak comedy | ||
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THERIDDLER
Canada116 Posts
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Die4Ever
United States17611 Posts
On May 05 2022 17:44 Durnuu wrote: Sniper vs Hyun was a good finals wtf, just because it's ZvZ doesn't automatically mean it's bad yea that was a tight match | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12045 Posts
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Durnuu
13319 Posts
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Azzur
Australia6255 Posts
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Die4Ever
United States17611 Posts
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Azzur
Australia6255 Posts
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Andi_Goldberger
Germany1608 Posts
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Durnuu
13319 Posts
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umelbumel
2026 Posts
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
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True_Spike
Poland3415 Posts
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Die4Ever
United States17611 Posts
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SHODAN
United Kingdom1060 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany15880 Posts
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Andi_Goldberger
Germany1608 Posts
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Azzur
Australia6255 Posts
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Javah
France739 Posts
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darklycid
3375 Posts
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tigera6
3221 Posts
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pandorasheep
73 Posts
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Die4Ever
United States17611 Posts
On May 05 2022 18:02 Charoisaur wrote: Can he set a new GSL finals speedrun record? yea I think he's on pace for it | ||
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Azzur
Australia6255 Posts
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Andi_Goldberger
Germany1608 Posts
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sim999999
23 Posts
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Poopi
France12761 Posts
hopefully Creator takes a map at least | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15880 Posts
We wouldn't want to see any of that.. | ||
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SHODAN
United Kingdom1060 Posts
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Durnuu
13319 Posts
On May 05 2022 18:06 Charoisaur wrote: Well but good think Batteries got nerfed so Protoss can't get cheap wins anymore We wouldn't want to see any of that.. Good thing lurkers got "nerfed" so that protoss can go for ground armies now, lings ravagers and queens are so bad against ground | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10317 Posts
So sad to see this, there were soo many good GSL games this season, it would suck if it ended weakly and the Finals is lame to watch (well at least there were some cool Zerg cheeses)... Even Creator vs Rogue in Ro6 was pretty good to watch | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24192 Posts
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tigera6
3221 Posts
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Die4Ever
United States17611 Posts
On May 05 2022 18:08 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: Come on Creator take at least 1 game!! So sad to see this, there were soo many good GSL games this season, it would suck if it ended weakly and the Finals is lame to watch (well at least there were some cool Zerg cheeses)... Even Creator vs Rogue in Ro6 was pretty good to watch I guess Rogue had no reason to work hard to prepare a bunch of cheeses for the ro6 | ||
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darklycid
3375 Posts
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Die4Ever
United States17611 Posts
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Durnuu
13319 Posts
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
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SHODAN
United Kingdom1060 Posts
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True_Spike
Poland3415 Posts
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tigera6
3221 Posts
On May 05 2022 18:21 SHODAN wrote: if cheese was banned I think creator wins this final That means Rogue win zero championship. | ||
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Javah
France739 Posts
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10317 Posts
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umelbumel
2026 Posts
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Argonauta
Spain4902 Posts
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[PkF] Wire
France24192 Posts
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tigera6
3221 Posts
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[PkF] Wire
France24192 Posts
On May 05 2022 18:27 tigera6 wrote: Now its time for cheese #4 from Rogue it's Nautilus, how Rogue plays will be very spawn dependent I think | ||
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Durnuu
13319 Posts
On May 05 2022 18:29 [PkF] Wire wrote: it's Nautilus, how Rogue plays will be very spawn dependent I think You make the 12 pool before you know where the opponent spawned | ||
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Poopi
France12761 Posts
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[PkF] Wire
France24192 Posts
On May 05 2022 18:30 Durnuu wrote: You make the 12 pool before you know where the opponent spawned | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24192 Posts
On May 05 2022 18:32 Poopi wrote: Rogue looked so sloppy with the stasis wards, hopefully Creator wins another game indeed, but I don't think he'll let such basic mistakes happen again | ||
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Andi_Goldberger
Germany1608 Posts
e: actually looking okish! nice | ||
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
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Durnuu
13319 Posts
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Javah
France739 Posts
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SHODAN
United Kingdom1060 Posts
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darklycid
3375 Posts
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Andi_Goldberger
Germany1608 Posts
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Schelim
Austria11528 Posts
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Durnuu
13319 Posts
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Andi_Goldberger
Germany1608 Posts
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Azzur
Australia6255 Posts
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Durnuu
13319 Posts
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
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SHODAN
United Kingdom1060 Posts
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[PkF] Wire
France24192 Posts
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10317 Posts
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Schelim
Austria11528 Posts
On May 05 2022 17:39 Schelim wrote: Rogue knows he's not good enough to beat Creator straight up so he has to cheese him i mean i was joking then but i'm not mad at this | ||
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Argonauta
Spain4902 Posts
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darklycid
3375 Posts
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Nakajin
Canada8988 Posts
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[PkF] Wire
France24192 Posts
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Poopi
France12761 Posts
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M2
Bulgaria4109 Posts
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[PkF] Wire
France24192 Posts
On May 05 2022 18:52 Poopi wrote: Now we have a finals surprisingly enough given how it started, yes ! | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12045 Posts
On May 05 2022 18:50 Schelim wrote: i mean i was joking then but i'm not mad at this I caught a few images at the end of this game and I saw swarmhosts so I think the opposite, Rogue knows he's obviously winning so he's having fun taking "risks" knowing he's safe in the end. | ||
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Durnuu
13319 Posts
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[PkF] Wire
France24192 Posts
On May 05 2022 18:54 Nebuchad wrote: I caught a few images at the end of this game and I saw swarmhosts so I think the opposite, Rogue knows he's obviously winning so he's having fun taking "risks" knowing he's safe in the end. I wouldn't go that far but I'd say Rogue doesn't look shaken yet. If it goes g7... | ||
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Durnuu
13319 Posts
On May 05 2022 18:56 Durnuu wrote: I think some sort of queen push would be the perfect way to end this series And rogue is getting overlord speed to get them to the other side of the map, just saying | ||
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40186 Posts
On May 05 2022 18:56 Durnuu wrote: I think some sort of queen push would be the perfect way to end this series Everything is building up to it, doesn't it. | ||
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Durnuu
13319 Posts
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Andi_Goldberger
Germany1608 Posts
On May 05 2022 18:56 Durnuu wrote: I think some sort of queen push would be the perfect way to end this series oh god please no if he wins with these mutas I never want to play ladder again | ||
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HeroSandro
521 Posts
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10317 Posts
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darklycid
3375 Posts
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Andi_Goldberger
Germany1608 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany15880 Posts
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Argonauta
Spain4902 Posts
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10317 Posts
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darklycid
3375 Posts
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Javah
France739 Posts
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
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Nakajin
Canada8988 Posts
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Argonauta
Spain4902 Posts
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Durnuu
13319 Posts
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10317 Posts
It was hard seeing him cry so hard, I would have loved to see a g7... but it wasn't a bad finals, some good games at least It was nice seeing him play well in 2-3 games at the end, I had forgotten how strong he was this season and how hard he dominated Trap | ||
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Schelim
Austria11528 Posts
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tigera6
3221 Posts
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[PkF] Wire
France24192 Posts
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Gina
241 Posts
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Zergiica
Croatia125 Posts
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tigera6
3221 Posts
On May 05 2022 19:08 Durnuu wrote: Rogue going to get G5L before Maru, now that's spicy Rogue never win more than 1 code S per year, and hes going to military. So Maru is safe, *crying inside* | ||
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tigera6
3221 Posts
On May 05 2022 19:11 Zergiica wrote: wow, toss got two games? how that happened, rogue went for a bathroom break? Rogue playing standard | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24192 Posts
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Niravroh
165 Posts
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Durnuu
13319 Posts
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Die4Ever
United States17611 Posts
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Starecat
934 Posts
Even though I'm a bit thorn, I also want to see a G5L. | ||
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Poopi
France12761 Posts
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-KG-
Denmark1204 Posts
The ZvP stomps really need to end but guess it's unlikely after so many years. | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10317 Posts
On May 05 2022 19:21 Die4Ever wrote: man I hope Creator keeps kicking ass, he played well today considering it was vs Rogue Yeah anyone else including Trap or Maru would probably have gotten 4-2'd too. Creator did great, he beat both Maru and Trap and only lost to Dark and Rogue... I hope to see Creator win a GSL this year. It's too bad it didn't happen tonight, it surely would have been momentous for him and he would be feeling the happiest in his life. It's just really too bad the Hatch in g1 had 54 hp left, if he micro'd his zealots a bit better they would have gotten 1 more swipe and it would have been at 26, if his adept shot it a couple times before leaving it'd be dead... G3 it did look like the immortal push likely would have worked if he didn't lose the 2 immortals. Rogue's method of targetting down was a bit risky, if Creator just picked up the immortal and dodged then all of that damage would have been dodged. Game 6 it looked like Creator could have won too, especially if he didn't lose those 3 Voids earlier on. I still wonder if he could have won if he just kept micro'ing those 15 phoenixes vs corruptors, and picking off overlords? He could have 1 shot them... If you go to like 11:30 in the game, there were 2 corruptors left, and all the overlords were clumped up right where his phoenixes were. Maybe he shouldn't have brought the phoenixes back, and just perma supply blocked Rogue. | ||
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yoshi245
United States2969 Posts
I do hope Creator maintains this form or gets better in future events. | ||
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TheCheapSkate
Slovenia316 Posts
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RKC
2848 Posts
Next season will be the final G5L showdown! | ||
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Zambrah
United States7196 Posts
Oh well, saved me from having to watch yet another Zerg beating a Protoss in a GSL finals. Yawn indeed. | ||
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fealx
Germany376 Posts
Gratz Rogue | ||
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tigera6
3221 Posts
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SharkStarcraft
Austria2197 Posts
SC2 May patch notes: Adepts now cost 150/75 to weaken the early game prowess Protoss players often boast while leaving their strong late-game intact. | ||
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Bevan
Canada90 Posts
On May 05 2022 19:30 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: [G3 it did look like the immortal push likely would have worked if he didn't lose the 2 immortals...if Creator just picked up the immortal and dodged then all of that damage would have been dodged. It looked to me like Creator scuffed his micro there, and had zealots selected when he clicked to load into the prism instead of an immortal - he loaded up 3 zealots that he needed on the frontline, then looked surprised/frustrated a couple of seconds later when he realized his immortals died. Maybe I'm wrong, but that was the impression I had watching it live. | ||
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tskarzyn
United States516 Posts
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tigera6
3221 Posts
On May 05 2022 21:18 Bevan wrote: It looked to me like Creator scuffed his micro there, and had zealots selected when he clicked to load into the prism instead of an immortal - he loaded up 3 zealots that he needed on the frontline, then looked surprised/frustrated a couple of seconds later when he realized his immortals died. Maybe I'm wrong, but that was the impression I had watching it live. To be honest, I think Rogue would have game 3 no matter what. He was basically on a 2 base economy but with the gold and can stream out units non-stop from 3 hatches, Immortal alone cant win against that. | ||
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Andi_Goldberger
Germany1608 Posts
On May 05 2022 21:18 Bevan wrote: It looked to me like Creator scuffed his micro there, and had zealots selected when he clicked to load into the prism instead of an immortal - he loaded up 3 zealots that he needed on the frontline, then looked surprised/frustrated a couple of seconds later when he realized his immortals died. Maybe I'm wrong, but that was the impression I had watching it live. his micro looked off the entire series probably due to nerfs. On Nautilus II he failed to snipe and blink back with his stalkers multiple times, losing the prism to a spore etc. He just looked shaky which is understandable especially after the first two games. Lets hope he learns from this experience and comes back stronger - protoss is in desperate need of strong players that could clutch out finals :p | ||
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RKC
2848 Posts
So the score is rather deceiving and the series played more like a 4-1. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24413 Posts
Hopefully Creator can keep up this form and doesn’t drop back down, and grats to Rogue obviously | ||
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
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Poopi
France12761 Posts
Still, most of the games were more entertaining than the previous queen walk / stargate meta of PvZ | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10317 Posts
On May 05 2022 21:18 Bevan wrote: It looked to me like Creator scuffed his micro there, and had zealots selected when he clicked to load into the prism instead of an immortal - he loaded up 3 zealots that he needed on the frontline, then looked surprised/frustrated a couple of seconds later when he realized his immortals died. Maybe I'm wrong, but that was the impression I had watching it live. Oh shoot, you're probably right. I do remember noticing a zealot in it and wondering why he didn't pick up the Immortal instead. But yeah hmm now I think of it, someone pointed out Rogue had a gold, so maybe it wouldn't have been enough. It'd have needed really good micro. I just wish we could have seen a G7 haha. We were so close... g1, g3, g6 all could have been Creator wins if a couple tiny things were done better. (Hatch killed in g1 or spot the nydus, immortal micro not fudged up g3, not losing 3 voids g6 or losing ~15 probes when the mutas hit his nat after he scouted the mutas already) | ||
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aringadingding
474 Posts
He made this tournament interesting! | ||
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dysenterymd
1177 Posts
Creator didn't look hopelessly outmatched, just a little bit worse and not as clutch on a big stage (in game 1 especially.) If he stays in his current forms he could make more deep runs. | ||
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Beelzebub1
1004 Posts
On May 06 2022 03:04 dysenterymd wrote: By GSL final standards I would say that that was slightly above average. By Rogue PvZ final standards the quality was way above average. Creator didn't look hopelessly outmatched, just a little bit worse and not as clutch on a big stage (in game 1 especially.) If he stays in his current forms he could make more deep runs. This is pretty much where I was. Creator had a few minor mistakes here and there that cost him but it was still a competitive series, yea if Creator stays in this kind of form he's going to be a contender pretty much wherever he goes. | ||
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Kitai
United States869 Posts
And of course, grats to Rogue for being crazy good as usual. | ||
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QOGQOG
828 Posts
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Niravroh
165 Posts
Pls don't lose hope, you got so close! | ||
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Sprog
New Zealand83 Posts
On May 06 2022 05:42 Niravroh wrote: I was cheering for Rogue, but boy was it hard to watch Creator's face during that last game... Pls don't lose hope, you got so close! Very hard watch, you gotta feel for people in this position in sport in general. The hundreds and hundreds of hours that go into it, only to come up short. Creator has certainly earnt A LOT of fans. | ||
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Topin
Peru10044 Posts
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Swisslink
2949 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24413 Posts
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Bacillus
Finland1896 Posts
In game 6, why did Creator recall the phoenixes when Rogue counterattacked? Rogue mostly had lings and maybe 2 roaches left in Creator's base and they probably could be cleared up soonish by the warp ins. Meanwhile the phoenixes had a momentarily free reign and could've cleared out some queens or maybe even just gone overlord hunting, whatever was necessary to keep the pressure on Rogue's side. | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10317 Posts
On May 06 2022 20:50 Bacillus wrote: I'm totally out of touch with the finer nuances of SC2 these days, so this might be a bit silly question, but... In game 6, why did Creator recall the phoenixes when Rogue counterattacked? Rogue mostly had lings and maybe 2 roaches left in Creator's base and they probably could be cleared up soonish by the warp ins. Meanwhile the phoenixes had a momentarily free reign and could've cleared out some queens or maybe even just gone overlord hunting, whatever was necessary to keep the pressure on Rogue's side. Yes I'm wondering this too. I can't help but think that the emotions did get to Creator (I mean can he really play well/focused when he's seemingly crying after all?) When looking at the game, it really didn't look Rogue's lead was that much. Yes, Creator did have trouble getting a 4th, but he eventually got one up, and just couldn't hold it. Now, what could he have done to hold it? When his 15 Phoenixes were on Rogue's side, they were sniping Corruptors, this is good, and only 2-3 alive at a time. He flew to one of Rogue's bases and killed like ~2 drones? With 15 Phoenix? He should be lifting 5 drones at a time, and 1 shotting 5 drones at a time with those 10 other Phoenix! Instead he used "two shots" just to kill like 2 drones. So he could have killed near 10 drones (accounting for overshooting) in the time it took to do those "2 shots". Then he flew to Rogue's natural, again he could have picked up like 5 drones, Spores can't target down Phoenix too easily. Then instead of recalling, he could have flew to the other bases, either 2 shotted Overlords and supply block Rogue or at least force him to spend a couple minutes rebuilding ~15 drones and ~5 OLs... Or imagine if he found the base at the far left with 0 spores and where the Queens can't walk easily between the natural and that base? He could have picked up another 10 drones there no contest. Of course, this is assuming perfect micro and decision making, he didn't have vision like us... but realistically I think he could have killed like 15 more drones at least (or like 10 drones and 5 OLs), or more if he stayed micro'ing hard and kept picking off corruptors and keeping it down to like ~2-3. And it would have been easier to keep the Corruptor count low if he was picking off drones and forcing Rogue to remake them, or cut drones and focus only on Corruptors. And then it would have been a game of 50 probes vs 60 drones, instead of 50 vs 75. He could have chrono boosted his Nexus too... I want to be told I'm wrong and Rogue could have micro'd somehow to not lose that many drones (he did do a pretty good job driving Creator away when the phoenix returned after being recalled), but... Perhaps he thought he killed a few drones and just went to recall as a habit to keep the half hurt phoenix alive, and might have been afraid corruptors might have been coming or something... or just he misjudged needing the phoenix at home... Another thing I wish is that Creator actually fought over his ground army when he was pushing, his air units didn't seem to be inside the guardian shield. Also correct me if wrong but maybe it would have been better for Creator to target down the corruptors with the voids, or even run the voids back so the phoenix can tank and kill more? Hard to say I don't play Protoss lol and I know these are nitpicks... Just really too bad he was pretty all-in at that point and had to cancel his 4th earlier... if only he could have not lost that 4th to like 5 Roaches lol. He just needed like 1 void over there while defending the queen drop. | ||
Mizenhauer
United States1804 Posts
On May 06 2022 22:37 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: Yes I'm wondering this too. I can't help but think that the emotions did get to Creator (I mean can he really play well/focused when he's seemingly crying after all?) When looking at the game, it really didn't look Rogue's lead was that much. Yes, Creator did have trouble getting a 4th, but he eventually got one up, and just couldn't hold it. Now, what could he have done to hold it? When his 15 Phoenixes were on Rogue's side, they were sniping Corruptors, this is good, and only 2-3 alive at a time. He flew to one of Rogue's bases and killed like ~2 drones? With 15 Phoenix? He should be lifting 5 drones at a time, and 1 shotting 5 drones at a time with those 10 other Phoenix! Instead he used "two shots" just to kill like 2 drones. So he could have killed near 10 drones (accounting for overshooting) in the time it took to do those "2 shots". Then he flew to Rogue's natural, again he could have picked up like 5 drones, Spores can't target down Phoenix too easily. Then instead of recalling, he could have flew to the other bases, either 2 shotted Overlords and supply block Rogue or at least force him to spend a couple minutes rebuilding ~15 drones and ~5 OLs... Or imagine if he found the base at the far left with 0 spores and where the Queens can't walk easily between the natural and that base? He could have picked up another 10 drones there no contest. Of course, this is assuming perfect micro and decision making, he didn't have vision like us... but realistically I think he could have killed like 15 more drones at least (or like 10 drones and 5 OLs), or more if he stayed micro'ing hard and kept picking off corruptors and keeping it down to like ~2-3. And it would have been easier to keep the Corruptor count low if he was picking off drones and forcing Rogue to remake them, or cut drones and focus only on Corruptors. And then it would have been a game of 50 probes vs 60 drones, instead of 50 vs 75. He could have chrono boosted his Nexus too... I want to be told I'm wrong and Rogue could have micro'd somehow to not lose that many drones (he did do a pretty good job driving Creator away when the phoenix returned after being recalled), but... Perhaps he thought he killed a few drones and just went to recall as a habit to keep the half hurt phoenix alive, and might have been afraid corruptors might have been coming or something... or just he misjudged needing the phoenix at home... Another thing I wish is that Creator actually fought over his ground army when he was pushing, his air units didn't seem to be inside the guardian shield. Also correct me if wrong but maybe it would have been better for Creator to target down the corruptors with the voids, or even run the voids back so the phoenix can tank and kill more? Hard to say I don't play Protoss lol and I know these are nitpicks... Just really too bad he was pretty all-in at that point and had to cancel his 4th earlier... if only he could have not lost that 4th to like 5 Roaches lol. He just needed like 1 void over there while defending the queen drop. The game was already over at that point. Creator's economy was garbage and he didn't have enough gates to produce a ground army to supplement his phoenixes. The longer he stayed on Rogue's side of the map the more phoenixes he would have lost, but it would not have really mattered either way since he didn't really have a means of getting back into the game. | ||
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Whiztard
United States227 Posts
On May 07 2022 05:18 Mizenhauer wrote: The game was already over at that point. Creator's economy was garbage and he didn't have enough gates to produce a ground army to supplement his phoenixes. The longer he stayed on Rogue's side of the map the more phoenixes he would have lost, but it would not have really mattered either way since he didn't really have a means of getting back into the game. I do think we have seen progamers finesse themselves back from being behind like this. I think Creator could have tried harder to get drone damage in with the phoenixes. Try thinking back to the times when Artosis/Tasteless have called a game being over, and then some things end up turning around and they say "guess things have stabilized somehow". Some parts of it comes down to buying an extra minute. I still do agree that Creator would likely have still lost since Rogue may not give Creator that extra minute; but I was a bit surprised that Creator did that given the information he knew. | ||
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Poopi
France12761 Posts
This 4th base loss forced him to all-in whereas an earlier fourth base might have allowed him to survive | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24413 Posts
I’d need to rewatch more closely, I skimmed it there. Creator had a runby dealing havoc across his bases, and Phoenixes being air units, fast and able to bypass terrain, he decided a recall was the best shot. Bear in mind he had very little on the ground to deal with the runby. Something Creator didn’t know, as far as I can tell was that Rogue snuck at least one Infestor out. He may have expected it as a sensible response, or something Rogue does in such situations, but as far as I can tell he didn’t actually see it. Those phoenixes get caught with a fungal and the corruptors dive on them and what little army he had was toast. If he sticks around with them, he goes from an extremely tough position to a genuinely impossible one, IMO. Unless Rogue isn’t paying attention and he lifts and snipes the Infestor Rough game. On the face of it his call may seem bad, if it played out differently and he had the core of his existing army wiped by a fungal trying to kill drones people would be saying that was a bad decision too. IMO anyway | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10317 Posts
On May 07 2022 08:12 WombaT wrote: It’s easy to make calls with the benefit of full map vision, Creator was in a bloody tough spot. I’d need to rewatch more closely, I skimmed it there. Creator had a runby dealing havoc across his bases, and Phoenixes being air units, fast and able to bypass terrain, he decided a recall was the best shot. Bear in mind he had very little on the ground to deal with the runby. Something Creator didn’t know, as far as I can tell was that Rogue snuck at least one Infestor out. He may have expected it as a sensible response, or something Rogue does in such situations, but as far as I can tell he didn’t actually see it. Those phoenixes get caught with a fungal and the corruptors dive on them and what little army he had was toast. If he sticks around with them, he goes from an extremely tough position to a genuinely impossible one, IMO. Unless Rogue isn’t paying attention and he lifts and snipes the Infestor Rough game. On the face of it his call may seem bad, if it played out differently and he had the core of his existing army wiped by a fungal trying to kill drones people would be saying that was a bad decision too. IMO anyway Thanks, this is what I was looking for. You're right I was thinking only of Corruptors and forgot Infestors with sudden Fungals is a thing. He did recall pretty fast after heading north and picking off a few drones, so it looked like his plan was to dip ASAP in anticipation of such a thing. It wasn't like he recalled after struggling to pick off drones. He recalled in anticipation since the Phoenix HP was low. So I guess his plan was instead to try to turtle/protect his economy, but figured he didn't need to lift up the few lings that were left in his main. Though that confuses me a bit why he flew back to Rogue immediately, but I guess it let the shields regen for another round of harass. Man it's really too bad if only he didn't lose that 4th, and lost 10 less probes to the mutas diving into his natural... or didn't let those lings runby, etc. If only he had like 60 probes instead of 50... oh well. I just really really wanted to see a g7, you know it would have been super intense, every little move or back and forth would be so dramatic! | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24413 Posts
On May 07 2022 12:35 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: Thanks, this is what I was looking for. You're right I was thinking only of Corruptors and forgot Infestors with sudden Fungals is a thing. He did recall pretty fast after heading north and picking off a few drones, so it looked like his plan was to dip ASAP in anticipation of such a thing. It wasn't like he recalled after struggling to pick off drones. He recalled in anticipation since the Phoenix HP was low. So I guess his plan was instead to try to turtle/protect his economy, but figured he didn't need to lift up the few lings that were left in his main. Though that confuses me a bit why he flew back to Rogue immediately, but I guess it let the shields regen for another round of harass. Man it's really too bad if only he didn't lose that 4th, and lost 10 less probes to the mutas diving into his natural... or didn't let those lings runby, etc. If only he had like 60 probes instead of 50... oh well. I just really really wanted to see a g7, you know it would have been super intense, every little move or back and forth would be so dramatic! I mean I think his multitasking just broke under the pressure mostly as well. I’m sure I’m not alone as a Protoss player to have games where most of my army ends up as phoenixes, I kill a million drones and have no energy and my opponent just goes and kills me as I have about 5 ground units. Maybe that fear was, briefly something he worried about, hence the recall, only to realise actually no I still have a window and he went back. But yeah it was a pity, I think he played the series reasonably well, like a 7/10 at worst but you’re gonna have to do better to kill Rogue | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10317 Posts
On May 07 2022 12:58 WombaT wrote: I mean I think his multitasking just broke under the pressure mostly as well. I’m sure I’m not alone as a Protoss player to have games where most of my army ends up as phoenixes, I kill a million drones and have no energy and my opponent just goes and kills me as I have about 5 ground units. Maybe that fear was, briefly something he worried about, hence the recall, only to realise actually no I still have a window and he went back. But yeah it was a pity, I think he played the series reasonably well, like a 7/10 at worst but you’re gonna have to do better to kill Rogue Yeah that's true, I forget Phoenixes have energy and you need some to defend too haha | ||
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