On September 13 2021 02:39 AzAlexZ wrote: Reynor and Serral: LOSING TO CLEM IN EU FINALS BEATING KOREANS IN SEASON FINALS LMAO Clem is too good
I think that Serral and Reynor are still better overall players than Clem. Clem is super good in TvZ, but struggles against top T/P.
Let’s not forget cross server lag benefits Zerg
Still. Until Clem shows that he can defeat the top koreans consistently, i consider Serral and Reynor to be better overall.
If that is the criteria it has never been possible with any other race than zerg. We seriously need to be able to appreciate foreigners playing the other races too.
On September 13 2021 02:39 AzAlexZ wrote: Reynor and Serral: LOSING TO CLEM IN EU FINALS BEATING KOREANS IN SEASON FINALS LMAO Clem is too good
I think that Serral and Reynor are still better overall players than Clem. Clem is super good in TvZ, but struggles against top T/P.
Let’s not forget cross server lag benefits Zerg
Still. Until Clem shows that he can defeat the top koreans consistently, i consider Serral and Reynor to be better overall.
If that is the criteria it has never been possible with any other race than zerg. We seriously need to be able to appreciate foreigners playing the other races too.
I´m not disrespecting Clem. He is absolutely a world class player. I was just responding to a comment about Clem, Reynor and Serral. Saying i consider player X to be better than player Y does not mean i do not respect both players.
On September 13 2021 02:39 AzAlexZ wrote: Reynor and Serral: LOSING TO CLEM IN EU FINALS BEATING KOREANS IN SEASON FINALS LMAO Clem is too good
I think that Serral and Reynor are still better overall players than Clem. Clem is super good in TvZ, but struggles against top T/P.
Let’s not forget cross server lag benefits Zerg
Still. Until Clem shows that he can defeat the top koreans consistently, i consider Serral and Reynor to be better overall.
If that is the criteria it has never been possible with any other race than zerg. We seriously need to be able to appreciate foreigners playing the other races too.
Clem’s great, he’s just not as rounded (yet?)
Especially during his miracle year Serral was one of if not the best player of his race in all three matchups.
Still a bloody excellent player, but apart from maybe DRG with ZvT I can’t think of many high level pros who have a matchup that’s a league above their others.
PvZ must be the first matchup in history where players of a race declare it to be utterly impossible to play after the best Protoss player gets trashed 6-0 in the matchup that favors him
On September 13 2021 08:04 Morbidius wrote: PvZ must be the first matchup in history where players of a race declare it to be utterly impossible to play after the best Protoss player gets trashed 6-0 in the matchup that favors him
I don't quite get that. He just 3-0'd Dark, the reigning GSL champion, in his prior PvZ series. Also, the only map Serral dropped in the entire tournament was to a protoss. Serral was just that on fire this weekend, wasn't a race issue.
Wonder if Trap was saving strats for GSL or something. Nevertheless, amazing performance from Serral overall. Not having to play ZvZ helped as well no doubt.
On September 13 2021 09:50 Gescom wrote: Wonder if Trap was saving strats for GSL or something. Nevertheless, amazing performance from Serral overall. Not having to play ZvZ helped as well no doubt.
Hes playing Maru next and wont play a potential PvZ until the Grand Final, so hiding strats here is just not necessary. It just look like Serral outplay Trap in every aspect of the game and Trap couldnt do anything about it for the entire series. And I am quite suprised that Trap didnt go back to the double Stargate Voidray opening, at least it leads to lategame the last time and Trap could do something better about it in lategame.
On September 13 2021 08:04 Morbidius wrote: PvZ must be the first matchup in history where players of a race declare it to be utterly impossible to play after the best Protoss player gets trashed 6-0 in the matchup that favors him
Not true at all, Trap played really poorly in the finals and in the group stage match vs Serral. He made a lot of mistakes, some unforced and others through the brilliance of Serral (also possibly due to lag). If there is anything that would invalidate the claim on Serral absolutely smacking Trap this tourney, it would be Cross Server, I'm sure we see different results if this were offline. 2019 OP Zerg is not a thing anymore.
On September 13 2021 08:04 Morbidius wrote: PvZ must be the first matchup in history where players of a race declare it to be utterly impossible to play after the best Protoss player gets trashed 6-0 in the matchup that favors him
I don't quite get that. He just 3-0'd Dark, the reigning GSL champion, in his prior PvZ series. Also, the only map Serral dropped in the entire tournament was to a protoss. Serral was just that on fire this weekend, wasn't a race issue.
The bottom side of the bracket was quite fun. Skipped the rest of the matches and the finals of course, that was very obvious how that was going to go. Anyway until offline matches return with the same conditions for all parties involved without having to force one party of players to do all-nighters, these tournaments will continue being irrelevant and uninteresting. Add to that I really dont think any protoss could beat a top zerg in the finals of any tournament, the game has been in this state for years.
On September 13 2021 15:11 MarianoSC2 wrote: Add to that I really dont think any protoss could beat a top zerg in the finals of any tournament, the game has been in this state for years.
Ah so that is way Trap 3:0'ed Dark in quarters. Makes perfect sense...
And as soon as we have offline play and a Kr loses you will be the first to cry "but Jetlag"
On September 13 2021 15:11 MarianoSC2 wrote: Add to that I really dont think any protoss could beat a top zerg in the finals of any tournament, the game has been in this state for years.
Ah so that is way Trap 3:0'ed Dark in quarters. Makes perfect sense...
And as soon as we have offline play and a Kr loses you will be the first to cry "but Jetlag"
He did say finals.
Trap has managed it before in the relatively recent past though, playing better than he did here.
In tournament play though a Bo7 against a Zerg generally seems a different beast than managing it earlier in a tournament. To take out a player of Dark’s calibre you have to show your best hand, then when it comes to a Bo7 you’re playing someone of Serral’s calibre who’s seen your best cards already.
It’s just the nature of the matchup I guess. Not sure how the matchup numbers actually work out, from intuition it seems Protoss has a considerably easier time in a Bo3, but when we get to Bo7 finals has a generally awful time.