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Needless to say, anyone who can beat Rogue, Reynor, Showtime, Maru, Byun, Serral in a row, deserves a championship. Well done Dark.
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On December 22 2020 00:18 NotSoHappy wrote:
no idea why some people here put Rotti down, because he mentioned how good Dark startegies were. Serral came underprepared or too much in his head to play his thing and Dark mindgamed him soo good that it ended in a switf 4:0.
Serral was not under-prepared or anything. In fact, Serral played perfect as he usually does but this just shows how much better Dark is than Serral. It's always been that way.
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I dont really know whats this debate is about. From what ive seen, this match Dark outplayed Serral in every way possible.
Yes his strategic decesion making was the most outstanding, so thats worth highlghting.
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On December 23 2020 02:33 Shathe wrote:
I dont really know whats this debate is about. From what ive seen, this match Dark outplayed Serral in every way possible.
Yes his strategic decesion making was the most outstanding, so thats worth highlghting.
Not only his decision making. Dark is better than Serral in every single aspect of SC2. Its always been that way. Serral is a god, yes. But Dark is levels above him, as with healthy Maru or Byun.
User was banned for this post.
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On December 23 2020 02:33 Shathe wrote:
I dont really know whats this debate is about. From what ive seen, this match Dark outplayed Serral in every way possible.
Yes his strategic decesion making was the most outstanding, so thats worth highlghting.
Nah, not really. It's not that Dark's micro, micro or multitasking were better than Serral's, we barely had any moment in the series in which these could be decisive elements; on the other hand, Dark's build orders and decision making were infinitely superior to Serral's in every game they played and the 4-0 is a consequence of that that.
On December 23 2020 02:26 serralfan18 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2020 00:18 NotSoHappy wrote:
no idea why some people here put Rotti down, because he mentioned how good Dark startegies were. Serral came underprepared or too much in his head to play his thing and Dark mindgamed him soo good that it ended in a switf 4:0. Serral was not under-prepared or anything. In fact, Serral played perfect as he usually does but this just shows how much better Dark is than Serral. It's always been that way.
Serral wasn't unprepared, his hate for mutalisks in ZvZ(which must have skyrocketed recently since he wasn't so reluctant to play mutas himself in the past) paired with Dark's preference to play them mindtricked him entirely; Serral seemingly had no clue, he refused to play mutas himself, didn't realize when and if Dark was going to play them and mostly tried to end the game before mutas could come out with terrible builds and very little success, whereas he should have had the edge in standard ZvZ or hive lategame(as it happened every time when Dark and post ascension Serral had to play).
Serral has never played, in recent times, a series that was so far from being perfect and Dark has performed worse than Serral for very long periods; trolling in every post you make must be very fun since you can't refrain from doing it.
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On December 23 2020 05:17 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2020 02:33 Shathe wrote:
I dont really know whats this debate is about. From what ive seen, this match Dark outplayed Serral in every way possible.
Yes his strategic decesion making was the most outstanding, so thats worth highlghting. Nah, not really. It's not that Dark's micro, micro or multitasking were better than Serral's, we barely had any moment in the series in which these could be decisive elements; on the other hand, Dark's build orders and decision making were infinitely superior to Serral's in every game they played and the 4-0 is a consequence of that that. Show nested quote +On December 23 2020 02:26 serralfan18 wrote:On December 22 2020 00:18 NotSoHappy wrote:
no idea why some people here put Rotti down, because he mentioned how good Dark startegies were. Serral came underprepared or too much in his head to play his thing and Dark mindgamed him soo good that it ended in a switf 4:0. Serral was not under-prepared or anything. In fact, Serral played perfect as he usually does but this just shows how much better Dark is than Serral. It's always been that way. Serral wasn't unprepared, his hate for mutalisks in ZvZ(which must have skyrocketed recently since he wasn't so reluctant to play mutas himself in the past) paired with Dark's preference to play them mindtricked him entirely; Serral seemingly had no clue, he refused to play mutas himself, didn't realize when and if Dark was going to play them and mostly tried to end the game before mutas could come out with terrible builds and very little success, whereas he should have had the edge in standard ZvZ or hive lategame(as it happened every time when Dark and post ascension Serral had to play). Serral has never played, in recent times, a series that was so far from being perfect and Dark has performed worse than Serral for very long periods; trolling in every post you make must be very fun since you can't refrain from doing it.
Thx for taking the time. These trolls are really floading this thread.
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On December 23 2020 05:17 Xain0n wrote:
Nah, not really. It's not that Dark's micro, micro or multitasking were better than Serral's, we barely had any moment in the series in which these could be decisive elements; on the other hand, Dark's build orders and decision making were infinitely superior to Serral's in every game they played and the 4-0 is a consequence of that that.
I disagree.
In game 1, Serral messed up his queen positioning for a split second and Dark immediately got the surround that won him the game.
In game 2, Serral's first roach bane push was a disaster because Dark out micro'd Serral. Between setting up concaves and killing serral's banes with his own, Dark got an insurmountable lead because he outmicro'd Serral. That led to Serral's all-in in which his biles were off point and Dark was engaging everything with finesse.
In game 3 - Serral had problems keeping up with Dark's multitasking. Dark did have the build order advantage, but he was also blocking every single effort of Serral to have some map awareness. Serral couldnt even get changelings out.
In game 4 - Serral won the build order i believe, and still lost. Serral, with his timing, couldnt engage well enough in Dark's sim city and didnt target fire well enough.
So while Dark did win most of the build orders, that's not the only reason Serral got rolled 4-0. Dark just better mechanically
Why is it even so surprising? Serral lost a grueling ZvZ to Reynor at blizzcon, and then Dark just steamrolled Reynor mechanically. Dark is a monster
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Russian Federation195 Posts
I just hope we get the TSL6 replay pack someday
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Still no post-tourney update on SC2 General?
You would expect TL writers to have a template ZvZ report by now....
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On December 24 2020 17:15 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2020 05:17 Xain0n wrote:
Nah, not really. It's not that Dark's micro, micro or multitasking were better than Serral's, we barely had any moment in the series in which these could be decisive elements; on the other hand, Dark's build orders and decision making were infinitely superior to Serral's in every game they played and the 4-0 is a consequence of that that.
I disagree. In game 1, Serral messed up his queen positioning for a split second and Dark immediately got the surround that won him the game. In game 2, Serral's first roach bane push was a disaster because Dark out micro'd Serral. Between setting up concaves and killing serral's banes with his own, Dark got an insurmountable lead because he outmicro'd Serral. That led to Serral's all-in in which his biles were off point and Dark was engaging everything with finesse. In game 3 - Serral had problems keeping up with Dark's multitasking. Dark did have the build order advantage, but he was also blocking every single effort of Serral to have some map awareness. Serral couldnt even get changelings out. In game 4 - Serral won the build order i believe, and still lost. Serral, with his timing, couldnt engage well enough in Dark's sim city and didnt target fire well enough. So while Dark did win most of the build orders, that's not the only reason Serral got rolled 4-0. Dark just better mechanically Why is it even so surprising? Serral lost a grueling ZvZ to Reynor at blizzcon, and then Dark just steamrolled Reynor mechanically. Dark is a monster
Just no.
In game 1, it was Serral who won the early engagement after the 12 pool and that made Dark opt for the ling flood that which won him the game because Serral wasn't expecting it.
In game 2, the build order was simply terrible for Serral, his roaches hit for the first time when he's down 14 workers but has almost no advantage in army supply
In game 3 Dark surely had the initiative and kept Serral busy with his multitasking but it's not like he inflicted fatal damage because of it, the build order was the reason he won.
Only for game 4 I agree that Serral could have been ahead as far as build orders go and played it kind of subpar.
For sure Serral didn't play better than Dark throughout the whole series but the opposite isn't true either, maybe slightly so. Strategy and decision making won Dark the series big time.
This result is surprising, of course, since Serral on average is faster and has better mechanics than Dark; it was crystal clear during the series they played in 2018-2019 and, I would say, it could be noticed even in the close 3-2 Serral won two weeks ago.
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On December 25 2020 02:34 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2020 17:15 BerserkSword wrote:On December 23 2020 05:17 Xain0n wrote:
Nah, not really. It's not that Dark's micro, micro or multitasking were better than Serral's, we barely had any moment in the series in which these could be decisive elements; on the other hand, Dark's build orders and decision making were infinitely superior to Serral's in every game they played and the 4-0 is a consequence of that that.
I disagree. In game 1, Serral messed up his queen positioning for a split second and Dark immediately got the surround that won him the game. In game 2, Serral's first roach bane push was a disaster because Dark out micro'd Serral. Between setting up concaves and killing serral's banes with his own, Dark got an insurmountable lead because he outmicro'd Serral. That led to Serral's all-in in which his biles were off point and Dark was engaging everything with finesse. In game 3 - Serral had problems keeping up with Dark's multitasking. Dark did have the build order advantage, but he was also blocking every single effort of Serral to have some map awareness. Serral couldnt even get changelings out. In game 4 - Serral won the build order i believe, and still lost. Serral, with his timing, couldnt engage well enough in Dark's sim city and didnt target fire well enough. So while Dark did win most of the build orders, that's not the only reason Serral got rolled 4-0. Dark just better mechanically Why is it even so surprising? Serral lost a grueling ZvZ to Reynor at blizzcon, and then Dark just steamrolled Reynor mechanically. Dark is a monster Just no. In game 1, it was Serral who won the early engagement after the 12 pool and that made Dark opt for the ling flood that which won him the game because Serral wasn't expecting it. In game 2, the build order was simply terrible for Serral, his roaches hit for the first time when he's down 14 workers but has almost no advantage in army supply In game 3 Dark surely had the initiative and kept Serral busy with his multitasking but it's not like he inflicted fatal damage because of it, the build order was the reason he won. Only for game 4 I agree that Serral could have been ahead as far as build orders go and played it kind of subpar. For sure Serral didn't play better than Dark throughout the whole series but the opposite isn't true either, maybe slightly so. Strategy and decision making won Dark the series big time. This result is surprising, of course, since Serral on average is faster and has better mechanics than Dark; it was crystal clear during the series they played in 2018-2019 and, I would say, it could be noticed even in the close 3-2 Serral won two weeks ago.
okay, this is definitely the "damage control" Rotti was accused of doing.
"Dark won only because he chose better builds, he's still inferior in micro and macro"
Jeez, how salty are you?
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On December 25 2020 02:34 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2020 17:15 BerserkSword wrote:On December 23 2020 05:17 Xain0n wrote:
Nah, not really. It's not that Dark's micro, micro or multitasking were better than Serral's, we barely had any moment in the series in which these could be decisive elements; on the other hand, Dark's build orders and decision making were infinitely superior to Serral's in every game they played and the 4-0 is a consequence of that that.
I disagree. In game 1, Serral messed up his queen positioning for a split second and Dark immediately got the surround that won him the game. In game 2, Serral's first roach bane push was a disaster because Dark out micro'd Serral. Between setting up concaves and killing serral's banes with his own, Dark got an insurmountable lead because he outmicro'd Serral. That led to Serral's all-in in which his biles were off point and Dark was engaging everything with finesse. In game 3 - Serral had problems keeping up with Dark's multitasking. Dark did have the build order advantage, but he was also blocking every single effort of Serral to have some map awareness. Serral couldnt even get changelings out. In game 4 - Serral won the build order i believe, and still lost. Serral, with his timing, couldnt engage well enough in Dark's sim city and didnt target fire well enough. So while Dark did win most of the build orders, that's not the only reason Serral got rolled 4-0. Dark just better mechanically Why is it even so surprising? Serral lost a grueling ZvZ to Reynor at blizzcon, and then Dark just steamrolled Reynor mechanically. Dark is a monster Just no. In game 1, it was Serral who won the early engagement after the 12 pool and that made Dark opt for the ling flood that which won him the game because Serral wasn't expecting it. In game 2, the build order was simply terrible for Serral, his roaches hit for the first time when he's down 14 workers but has almost no advantage in army supply In game 3 Dark surely had the initiative and kept Serral busy with his multitasking but it's not like he inflicted fatal damage because of it, the build order was the reason he won. Only for game 4 I agree that Serral could have been ahead as far as build orders go and played it kind of subpar. For sure Serral didn't play better than Dark throughout the whole series but the opposite isn't true either, maybe slightly so. Strategy and decision making won Dark the series big time. This result is surprising, of course, since Serral on average is faster and has better mechanics than Dark; it was crystal clear during the series they played in 2018-2019 and, I would say, it could be noticed even in the close 3-2 Serral won two weeks ago.
you said dark didn't play better than serral throughout the whole series, yea ok. You are biased and don't accuse others of being a troll, you basiclly are one too.
And you ignored his part about how dark totally outclassed reynor last year right after reynor beat serral. You can go on all day in circles, fact is serral lost 0-4 decisively. its ok, serral will be alright.
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On December 25 2020 04:53 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2020 02:34 Xain0n wrote:On December 24 2020 17:15 BerserkSword wrote:On December 23 2020 05:17 Xain0n wrote:
Nah, not really. It's not that Dark's micro, micro or multitasking were better than Serral's, we barely had any moment in the series in which these could be decisive elements; on the other hand, Dark's build orders and decision making were infinitely superior to Serral's in every game they played and the 4-0 is a consequence of that that.
I disagree. In game 1, Serral messed up his queen positioning for a split second and Dark immediately got the surround that won him the game. In game 2, Serral's first roach bane push was a disaster because Dark out micro'd Serral. Between setting up concaves and killing serral's banes with his own, Dark got an insurmountable lead because he outmicro'd Serral. That led to Serral's all-in in which his biles were off point and Dark was engaging everything with finesse. In game 3 - Serral had problems keeping up with Dark's multitasking. Dark did have the build order advantage, but he was also blocking every single effort of Serral to have some map awareness. Serral couldnt even get changelings out. In game 4 - Serral won the build order i believe, and still lost. Serral, with his timing, couldnt engage well enough in Dark's sim city and didnt target fire well enough. So while Dark did win most of the build orders, that's not the only reason Serral got rolled 4-0. Dark just better mechanically Why is it even so surprising? Serral lost a grueling ZvZ to Reynor at blizzcon, and then Dark just steamrolled Reynor mechanically. Dark is a monster Just no. In game 1, it was Serral who won the early engagement after the 12 pool and that made Dark opt for the ling flood that which won him the game because Serral wasn't expecting it. In game 2, the build order was simply terrible for Serral, his roaches hit for the first time when he's down 14 workers but has almost no advantage in army supply In game 3 Dark surely had the initiative and kept Serral busy with his multitasking but it's not like he inflicted fatal damage because of it, the build order was the reason he won. Only for game 4 I agree that Serral could have been ahead as far as build orders go and played it kind of subpar. For sure Serral didn't play better than Dark throughout the whole series but the opposite isn't true either, maybe slightly so. Strategy and decision making won Dark the series big time. This result is surprising, of course, since Serral on average is faster and has better mechanics than Dark; it was crystal clear during the series they played in 2018-2019 and, I would say, it could be noticed even in the close 3-2 Serral won two weeks ago. okay, this is definitely the "damage control" Rotti was accused of doing. "Dark won only because he chose better builds, he's still inferior in micro and macro" Jeez, how salty are you?
I am not salty, I am disappointed; and not because Serral lost but because of how atrocious was his decision making during the finals. Salty is what you are whenever Serral wins anything, you should know that feeling very well.
If you want me to say that Dark is superior to Serral mechanically speaking while on overage it's the opposite that's true: check their apm/Epm, look at their games without being irremediably korean biased and you'll know that how it is.
During these last finals, Dark was equal to or slightly better than Serral mechanically but I wouldn't expect this to happen on a regular basis and it wasn't even a key factor in the 4-0: Dark won mostly because he chose better builds, yes.
On December 25 2020 05:27 allmotor1 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2020 02:34 Xain0n wrote:On December 24 2020 17:15 BerserkSword wrote:On December 23 2020 05:17 Xain0n wrote:
Nah, not really. It's not that Dark's micro, micro or multitasking were better than Serral's, we barely had any moment in the series in which these could be decisive elements; on the other hand, Dark's build orders and decision making were infinitely superior to Serral's in every game they played and the 4-0 is a consequence of that that.
I disagree. In game 1, Serral messed up his queen positioning for a split second and Dark immediately got the surround that won him the game. In game 2, Serral's first roach bane push was a disaster because Dark out micro'd Serral. Between setting up concaves and killing serral's banes with his own, Dark got an insurmountable lead because he outmicro'd Serral. That led to Serral's all-in in which his biles were off point and Dark was engaging everything with finesse. In game 3 - Serral had problems keeping up with Dark's multitasking. Dark did have the build order advantage, but he was also blocking every single effort of Serral to have some map awareness. Serral couldnt even get changelings out. In game 4 - Serral won the build order i believe, and still lost. Serral, with his timing, couldnt engage well enough in Dark's sim city and didnt target fire well enough. So while Dark did win most of the build orders, that's not the only reason Serral got rolled 4-0. Dark just better mechanically Why is it even so surprising? Serral lost a grueling ZvZ to Reynor at blizzcon, and then Dark just steamrolled Reynor mechanically. Dark is a monster Just no. In game 1, it was Serral who won the early engagement after the 12 pool and that made Dark opt for the ling flood that which won him the game because Serral wasn't expecting it. In game 2, the build order was simply terrible for Serral, his roaches hit for the first time when he's down 14 workers but has almost no advantage in army supply In game 3 Dark surely had the initiative and kept Serral busy with his multitasking but it's not like he inflicted fatal damage because of it, the build order was the reason he won. Only for game 4 I agree that Serral could have been ahead as far as build orders go and played it kind of subpar. For sure Serral didn't play better than Dark throughout the whole series but the opposite isn't true either, maybe slightly so. Strategy and decision making won Dark the series big time. This result is surprising, of course, since Serral on average is faster and has better mechanics than Dark; it was crystal clear during the series they played in 2018-2019 and, I would say, it could be noticed even in the close 3-2 Serral won two weeks ago. you said dark didn't play better than serral throughout the whole series, yea ok. You are biased and don't accuse others of being a troll, you basiclly are one too. And you ignored his part about how dark totally outclassed reynor last year right after reynor beat serral. You can go on all day in circles, fact is serral lost 0-4 decisively. its ok, serral will be alright.
I mean, it should have been obvious if you cared to read that I was referring to their mechanics only.
Overall, Dark played much better than Serral.
Dark outclassing Reynor last BlizzCon looks like an exception considering that 2019 was Dark's best year in Sc2 and he kept losing ZvZ when it mattered except for that series; good for him that he was in such shape that day and also Reynor probably wasn't at the level he reached in 2020(even if he had already started beating Serral).
Also, Serral's g5 against Reynor was a huge throw, the worst of his career after becoming a champion.
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I really like that you try to clarify ur thoughts and they are understandable.
I think its great for dark and he played really good. Sad thing is, that the korean elitists make this more about serral losing, then about dark winning. It shows how salty they are about serral dominance in the past time.
On December 25 2020 05:55 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2020 04:53 Charoisaur wrote:On December 25 2020 02:34 Xain0n wrote:On December 24 2020 17:15 BerserkSword wrote:On December 23 2020 05:17 Xain0n wrote:
Nah, not really. It's not that Dark's micro, micro or multitasking were better than Serral's, we barely had any moment in the series in which these could be decisive elements; on the other hand, Dark's build orders and decision making were infinitely superior to Serral's in every game they played and the 4-0 is a consequence of that that.
I disagree. In game 1, Serral messed up his queen positioning for a split second and Dark immediately got the surround that won him the game. In game 2, Serral's first roach bane push was a disaster because Dark out micro'd Serral. Between setting up concaves and killing serral's banes with his own, Dark got an insurmountable lead because he outmicro'd Serral. That led to Serral's all-in in which his biles were off point and Dark was engaging everything with finesse. In game 3 - Serral had problems keeping up with Dark's multitasking. Dark did have the build order advantage, but he was also blocking every single effort of Serral to have some map awareness. Serral couldnt even get changelings out. In game 4 - Serral won the build order i believe, and still lost. Serral, with his timing, couldnt engage well enough in Dark's sim city and didnt target fire well enough. So while Dark did win most of the build orders, that's not the only reason Serral got rolled 4-0. Dark just better mechanically Why is it even so surprising? Serral lost a grueling ZvZ to Reynor at blizzcon, and then Dark just steamrolled Reynor mechanically. Dark is a monster Just no. In game 1, it was Serral who won the early engagement after the 12 pool and that made Dark opt for the ling flood that which won him the game because Serral wasn't expecting it. In game 2, the build order was simply terrible for Serral, his roaches hit for the first time when he's down 14 workers but has almost no advantage in army supply In game 3 Dark surely had the initiative and kept Serral busy with his multitasking but it's not like he inflicted fatal damage because of it, the build order was the reason he won. Only for game 4 I agree that Serral could have been ahead as far as build orders go and played it kind of subpar. For sure Serral didn't play better than Dark throughout the whole series but the opposite isn't true either, maybe slightly so. Strategy and decision making won Dark the series big time. This result is surprising, of course, since Serral on average is faster and has better mechanics than Dark; it was crystal clear during the series they played in 2018-2019 and, I would say, it could be noticed even in the close 3-2 Serral won two weeks ago. okay, this is definitely the "damage control" Rotti was accused of doing. "Dark won only because he chose better builds, he's still inferior in micro and macro" Jeez, how salty are you? I am not salty, I am disappointed; and not because Serral lost but because of how atrocious was his decision making during the finals. Salty is what you are whenever Serral wins anything, you should know that feeling very well. If you want me to say that Dark is superior to Serral mechanically speaking while on overage it's the opposite that's true: check their apm/Epm, look at their games without being irremediably korean biased and you'll know that how it is. During these last finals, Dark was equal to or slightly better than Serral mechanically but I wouldn't expect this to happen on a regular basis and it wasn't even a key factor in the 4-0: Dark won mostly because he chose better builds, yes. Show nested quote +On December 25 2020 05:27 allmotor1 wrote:On December 25 2020 02:34 Xain0n wrote:On December 24 2020 17:15 BerserkSword wrote:On December 23 2020 05:17 Xain0n wrote:
Nah, not really. It's not that Dark's micro, micro or multitasking were better than Serral's, we barely had any moment in the series in which these could be decisive elements; on the other hand, Dark's build orders and decision making were infinitely superior to Serral's in every game they played and the 4-0 is a consequence of that that.
I disagree. In game 1, Serral messed up his queen positioning for a split second and Dark immediately got the surround that won him the game. In game 2, Serral's first roach bane push was a disaster because Dark out micro'd Serral. Between setting up concaves and killing serral's banes with his own, Dark got an insurmountable lead because he outmicro'd Serral. That led to Serral's all-in in which his biles were off point and Dark was engaging everything with finesse. In game 3 - Serral had problems keeping up with Dark's multitasking. Dark did have the build order advantage, but he was also blocking every single effort of Serral to have some map awareness. Serral couldnt even get changelings out. In game 4 - Serral won the build order i believe, and still lost. Serral, with his timing, couldnt engage well enough in Dark's sim city and didnt target fire well enough. So while Dark did win most of the build orders, that's not the only reason Serral got rolled 4-0. Dark just better mechanically Why is it even so surprising? Serral lost a grueling ZvZ to Reynor at blizzcon, and then Dark just steamrolled Reynor mechanically. Dark is a monster Just no. In game 1, it was Serral who won the early engagement after the 12 pool and that made Dark opt for the ling flood that which won him the game because Serral wasn't expecting it. In game 2, the build order was simply terrible for Serral, his roaches hit for the first time when he's down 14 workers but has almost no advantage in army supply In game 3 Dark surely had the initiative and kept Serral busy with his multitasking but it's not like he inflicted fatal damage because of it, the build order was the reason he won. Only for game 4 I agree that Serral could have been ahead as far as build orders go and played it kind of subpar. For sure Serral didn't play better than Dark throughout the whole series but the opposite isn't true either, maybe slightly so. Strategy and decision making won Dark the series big time. This result is surprising, of course, since Serral on average is faster and has better mechanics than Dark; it was crystal clear during the series they played in 2018-2019 and, I would say, it could be noticed even in the close 3-2 Serral won two weeks ago. you said dark didn't play better than serral throughout the whole series, yea ok. You are biased and don't accuse others of being a troll, you basiclly are one too. And you ignored his part about how dark totally outclassed reynor last year right after reynor beat serral. You can go on all day in circles, fact is serral lost 0-4 decisively. its ok, serral will be alright. I mean, it should have been obvious if you cared to read that I was referring to their mechanics only. Overall, Dark played much better than Serral. Dark outclassing Reynor last BlizzCon looks like an exception considering that 2019 was Dark's best year in Sc2 and he kept losing ZvZ when it mattered except for that series; good for him that he was in such shape that day and also Reynor probably wasn't at the level he reached in 2020(even if he had already started beating Serral). Also, Serral's g5 against Reynor was a huge throw, the worst of his career after becoming a champion.
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On December 25 2020 06:04 DarkGamer wrote:I really like that you try to clarify ur thoughts and they are understandable. I think its great for dark and he played really good. Sad thing is, that the korean elitists make this more about serral losing, then about dark winning. It shows how salty they are about serral dominance in the past time. Show nested quote +On December 25 2020 05:55 Xain0n wrote:On December 25 2020 04:53 Charoisaur wrote:On December 25 2020 02:34 Xain0n wrote:On December 24 2020 17:15 BerserkSword wrote:On December 23 2020 05:17 Xain0n wrote:
Nah, not really. It's not that Dark's micro, micro or multitasking were better than Serral's, we barely had any moment in the series in which these could be decisive elements; on the other hand, Dark's build orders and decision making were infinitely superior to Serral's in every game they played and the 4-0 is a consequence of that that.
I disagree. In game 1, Serral messed up his queen positioning for a split second and Dark immediately got the surround that won him the game. In game 2, Serral's first roach bane push was a disaster because Dark out micro'd Serral. Between setting up concaves and killing serral's banes with his own, Dark got an insurmountable lead because he outmicro'd Serral. That led to Serral's all-in in which his biles were off point and Dark was engaging everything with finesse. In game 3 - Serral had problems keeping up with Dark's multitasking. Dark did have the build order advantage, but he was also blocking every single effort of Serral to have some map awareness. Serral couldnt even get changelings out. In game 4 - Serral won the build order i believe, and still lost. Serral, with his timing, couldnt engage well enough in Dark's sim city and didnt target fire well enough. So while Dark did win most of the build orders, that's not the only reason Serral got rolled 4-0. Dark just better mechanically Why is it even so surprising? Serral lost a grueling ZvZ to Reynor at blizzcon, and then Dark just steamrolled Reynor mechanically. Dark is a monster Just no. In game 1, it was Serral who won the early engagement after the 12 pool and that made Dark opt for the ling flood that which won him the game because Serral wasn't expecting it. In game 2, the build order was simply terrible for Serral, his roaches hit for the first time when he's down 14 workers but has almost no advantage in army supply In game 3 Dark surely had the initiative and kept Serral busy with his multitasking but it's not like he inflicted fatal damage because of it, the build order was the reason he won. Only for game 4 I agree that Serral could have been ahead as far as build orders go and played it kind of subpar. For sure Serral didn't play better than Dark throughout the whole series but the opposite isn't true either, maybe slightly so. Strategy and decision making won Dark the series big time. This result is surprising, of course, since Serral on average is faster and has better mechanics than Dark; it was crystal clear during the series they played in 2018-2019 and, I would say, it could be noticed even in the close 3-2 Serral won two weeks ago. okay, this is definitely the "damage control" Rotti was accused of doing. "Dark won only because he chose better builds, he's still inferior in micro and macro" Jeez, how salty are you? I am not salty, I am disappointed; and not because Serral lost but because of how atrocious was his decision making during the finals. Salty is what you are whenever Serral wins anything, you should know that feeling very well. If you want me to say that Dark is superior to Serral mechanically speaking while on overage it's the opposite that's true: check their apm/Epm, look at their games without being irremediably korean biased and you'll know that how it is. During these last finals, Dark was equal to or slightly better than Serral mechanically but I wouldn't expect this to happen on a regular basis and it wasn't even a key factor in the 4-0: Dark won mostly because he chose better builds, yes. On December 25 2020 05:27 allmotor1 wrote:On December 25 2020 02:34 Xain0n wrote:On December 24 2020 17:15 BerserkSword wrote:On December 23 2020 05:17 Xain0n wrote:
Nah, not really. It's not that Dark's micro, micro or multitasking were better than Serral's, we barely had any moment in the series in which these could be decisive elements; on the other hand, Dark's build orders and decision making were infinitely superior to Serral's in every game they played and the 4-0 is a consequence of that that.
I disagree. In game 1, Serral messed up his queen positioning for a split second and Dark immediately got the surround that won him the game. In game 2, Serral's first roach bane push was a disaster because Dark out micro'd Serral. Between setting up concaves and killing serral's banes with his own, Dark got an insurmountable lead because he outmicro'd Serral. That led to Serral's all-in in which his biles were off point and Dark was engaging everything with finesse. In game 3 - Serral had problems keeping up with Dark's multitasking. Dark did have the build order advantage, but he was also blocking every single effort of Serral to have some map awareness. Serral couldnt even get changelings out. In game 4 - Serral won the build order i believe, and still lost. Serral, with his timing, couldnt engage well enough in Dark's sim city and didnt target fire well enough. So while Dark did win most of the build orders, that's not the only reason Serral got rolled 4-0. Dark just better mechanically Why is it even so surprising? Serral lost a grueling ZvZ to Reynor at blizzcon, and then Dark just steamrolled Reynor mechanically. Dark is a monster Just no. In game 1, it was Serral who won the early engagement after the 12 pool and that made Dark opt for the ling flood that which won him the game because Serral wasn't expecting it. In game 2, the build order was simply terrible for Serral, his roaches hit for the first time when he's down 14 workers but has almost no advantage in army supply In game 3 Dark surely had the initiative and kept Serral busy with his multitasking but it's not like he inflicted fatal damage because of it, the build order was the reason he won. Only for game 4 I agree that Serral could have been ahead as far as build orders go and played it kind of subpar. For sure Serral didn't play better than Dark throughout the whole series but the opposite isn't true either, maybe slightly so. Strategy and decision making won Dark the series big time. This result is surprising, of course, since Serral on average is faster and has better mechanics than Dark; it was crystal clear during the series they played in 2018-2019 and, I would say, it could be noticed even in the close 3-2 Serral won two weeks ago. you said dark didn't play better than serral throughout the whole series, yea ok. You are biased and don't accuse others of being a troll, you basiclly are one too. And you ignored his part about how dark totally outclassed reynor last year right after reynor beat serral. You can go on all day in circles, fact is serral lost 0-4 decisively. its ok, serral will be alright. I mean, it should have been obvious if you cared to read that I was referring to their mechanics only. Overall, Dark played much better than Serral. Dark outclassing Reynor last BlizzCon looks like an exception considering that 2019 was Dark's best year in Sc2 and he kept losing ZvZ when it mattered except for that series; good for him that he was in such shape that day and also Reynor probably wasn't at the level he reached in 2020(even if he had already started beating Serral). Also, Serral's g5 against Reynor was a huge throw, the worst of his career after becoming a champion.
Thank you mate, I appreciate your words 
Dark definitely wasn't the one I would have wanted to win but there is no doubt that he deserved to.
For some people out here, evidently, this isn't enough.
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and when I think it can't get worse Xainon brings up APM as "proof" Serral is still superior mechanically after losing 0-4....
I'm out of here
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On December 25 2020 08:57 Charoisaur wrote:
and when I think it can't get worse Xainon brings up APM as "proof" Serral is still superior mechanically after losing 0-4....
I'm out of here
You are welcome.
However, if you read more carefully you'll find out I am not saying what you just wrote.
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Northern Ireland26270 Posts
They’re about equal mechanically judging from the many FPVoDs I’ve gone through with a fine toothcomb.
Where Serral tends to be better is in a stable ZvZ that transitions to hive, which wasn’t how the series went.
Dark is more ballsy and has more variety, indeed Serral has tried to have more all-ins and weird stuff as part of this year. I’d argue it hasn’t really worked all that well.
In theory a Serral with more all-ins and weirdness is just a better Serral, but I just don’t think he’s wired like Dark is in this regard. Similarly to how Stats is just better being Stats 9/10 times.
But mechanically I don’t think there’s much between them at all
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On December 25 2020 06:04 DarkGamer wrote:I really like that you try to clarify ur thoughts and they are understandable. I think its great for dark and he played really good. Sad thing is, that the korean elitists make this more about serral losing, then about dark winning. It shows how salty they are about serral dominance in the past time. Show nested quote +On December 25 2020 05:55 Xain0n wrote:On December 25 2020 04:53 Charoisaur wrote:On December 25 2020 02:34 Xain0n wrote:On December 24 2020 17:15 BerserkSword wrote:On December 23 2020 05:17 Xain0n wrote:
Nah, not really. It's not that Dark's micro, micro or multitasking were better than Serral's, we barely had any moment in the series in which these could be decisive elements; on the other hand, Dark's build orders and decision making were infinitely superior to Serral's in every game they played and the 4-0 is a consequence of that that.
I disagree. In game 1, Serral messed up his queen positioning for a split second and Dark immediately got the surround that won him the game. In game 2, Serral's first roach bane push was a disaster because Dark out micro'd Serral. Between setting up concaves and killing serral's banes with his own, Dark got an insurmountable lead because he outmicro'd Serral. That led to Serral's all-in in which his biles were off point and Dark was engaging everything with finesse. In game 3 - Serral had problems keeping up with Dark's multitasking. Dark did have the build order advantage, but he was also blocking every single effort of Serral to have some map awareness. Serral couldnt even get changelings out. In game 4 - Serral won the build order i believe, and still lost. Serral, with his timing, couldnt engage well enough in Dark's sim city and didnt target fire well enough. So while Dark did win most of the build orders, that's not the only reason Serral got rolled 4-0. Dark just better mechanically Why is it even so surprising? Serral lost a grueling ZvZ to Reynor at blizzcon, and then Dark just steamrolled Reynor mechanically. Dark is a monster Just no. In game 1, it was Serral who won the early engagement after the 12 pool and that made Dark opt for the ling flood that which won him the game because Serral wasn't expecting it. In game 2, the build order was simply terrible for Serral, his roaches hit for the first time when he's down 14 workers but has almost no advantage in army supply In game 3 Dark surely had the initiative and kept Serral busy with his multitasking but it's not like he inflicted fatal damage because of it, the build order was the reason he won. Only for game 4 I agree that Serral could have been ahead as far as build orders go and played it kind of subpar. For sure Serral didn't play better than Dark throughout the whole series but the opposite isn't true either, maybe slightly so. Strategy and decision making won Dark the series big time. This result is surprising, of course, since Serral on average is faster and has better mechanics than Dark; it was crystal clear during the series they played in 2018-2019 and, I would say, it could be noticed even in the close 3-2 Serral won two weeks ago. okay, this is definitely the "damage control" Rotti was accused of doing. "Dark won only because he chose better builds, he's still inferior in micro and macro" Jeez, how salty are you? I am not salty, I am disappointed; and not because Serral lost but because of how atrocious was his decision making during the finals. Salty is what you are whenever Serral wins anything, you should know that feeling very well. If you want me to say that Dark is superior to Serral mechanically speaking while on overage it's the opposite that's true: check their apm/Epm, look at their games without being irremediably korean biased and you'll know that how it is. During these last finals, Dark was equal to or slightly better than Serral mechanically but I wouldn't expect this to happen on a regular basis and it wasn't even a key factor in the 4-0: Dark won mostly because he chose better builds, yes. On December 25 2020 05:27 allmotor1 wrote:On December 25 2020 02:34 Xain0n wrote:On December 24 2020 17:15 BerserkSword wrote:On December 23 2020 05:17 Xain0n wrote:
Nah, not really. It's not that Dark's micro, micro or multitasking were better than Serral's, we barely had any moment in the series in which these could be decisive elements; on the other hand, Dark's build orders and decision making were infinitely superior to Serral's in every game they played and the 4-0 is a consequence of that that.
I disagree. In game 1, Serral messed up his queen positioning for a split second and Dark immediately got the surround that won him the game. In game 2, Serral's first roach bane push was a disaster because Dark out micro'd Serral. Between setting up concaves and killing serral's banes with his own, Dark got an insurmountable lead because he outmicro'd Serral. That led to Serral's all-in in which his biles were off point and Dark was engaging everything with finesse. In game 3 - Serral had problems keeping up with Dark's multitasking. Dark did have the build order advantage, but he was also blocking every single effort of Serral to have some map awareness. Serral couldnt even get changelings out. In game 4 - Serral won the build order i believe, and still lost. Serral, with his timing, couldnt engage well enough in Dark's sim city and didnt target fire well enough. So while Dark did win most of the build orders, that's not the only reason Serral got rolled 4-0. Dark just better mechanically Why is it even so surprising? Serral lost a grueling ZvZ to Reynor at blizzcon, and then Dark just steamrolled Reynor mechanically. Dark is a monster Just no. In game 1, it was Serral who won the early engagement after the 12 pool and that made Dark opt for the ling flood that which won him the game because Serral wasn't expecting it. In game 2, the build order was simply terrible for Serral, his roaches hit for the first time when he's down 14 workers but has almost no advantage in army supply In game 3 Dark surely had the initiative and kept Serral busy with his multitasking but it's not like he inflicted fatal damage because of it, the build order was the reason he won. Only for game 4 I agree that Serral could have been ahead as far as build orders go and played it kind of subpar. For sure Serral didn't play better than Dark throughout the whole series but the opposite isn't true either, maybe slightly so. Strategy and decision making won Dark the series big time. This result is surprising, of course, since Serral on average is faster and has better mechanics than Dark; it was crystal clear during the series they played in 2018-2019 and, I would say, it could be noticed even in the close 3-2 Serral won two weeks ago. you said dark didn't play better than serral throughout the whole series, yea ok. You are biased and don't accuse others of being a troll, you basiclly are one too. And you ignored his part about how dark totally outclassed reynor last year right after reynor beat serral. You can go on all day in circles, fact is serral lost 0-4 decisively. its ok, serral will be alright. I mean, it should have been obvious if you cared to read that I was referring to their mechanics only. Overall, Dark played much better than Serral. Dark outclassing Reynor last BlizzCon looks like an exception considering that 2019 was Dark's best year in Sc2 and he kept losing ZvZ when it mattered except for that series; good for him that he was in such shape that day and also Reynor probably wasn't at the level he reached in 2020(even if he had already started beating Serral). Also, Serral's g5 against Reynor was a huge throw, the worst of his career after becoming a champion.
no actually korean haters are making this more about serral losing than dark winning.
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On December 25 2020 05:55 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2020 04:53 Charoisaur wrote:On December 25 2020 02:34 Xain0n wrote:On December 24 2020 17:15 BerserkSword wrote:On December 23 2020 05:17 Xain0n wrote:
Nah, not really. It's not that Dark's micro, micro or multitasking were better than Serral's, we barely had any moment in the series in which these could be decisive elements; on the other hand, Dark's build orders and decision making were infinitely superior to Serral's in every game they played and the 4-0 is a consequence of that that.
I disagree. In game 1, Serral messed up his queen positioning for a split second and Dark immediately got the surround that won him the game. In game 2, Serral's first roach bane push was a disaster because Dark out micro'd Serral. Between setting up concaves and killing serral's banes with his own, Dark got an insurmountable lead because he outmicro'd Serral. That led to Serral's all-in in which his biles were off point and Dark was engaging everything with finesse. In game 3 - Serral had problems keeping up with Dark's multitasking. Dark did have the build order advantage, but he was also blocking every single effort of Serral to have some map awareness. Serral couldnt even get changelings out. In game 4 - Serral won the build order i believe, and still lost. Serral, with his timing, couldnt engage well enough in Dark's sim city and didnt target fire well enough. So while Dark did win most of the build orders, that's not the only reason Serral got rolled 4-0. Dark just better mechanically Why is it even so surprising? Serral lost a grueling ZvZ to Reynor at blizzcon, and then Dark just steamrolled Reynor mechanically. Dark is a monster Just no. In game 1, it was Serral who won the early engagement after the 12 pool and that made Dark opt for the ling flood that which won him the game because Serral wasn't expecting it. In game 2, the build order was simply terrible for Serral, his roaches hit for the first time when he's down 14 workers but has almost no advantage in army supply In game 3 Dark surely had the initiative and kept Serral busy with his multitasking but it's not like he inflicted fatal damage because of it, the build order was the reason he won. Only for game 4 I agree that Serral could have been ahead as far as build orders go and played it kind of subpar. For sure Serral didn't play better than Dark throughout the whole series but the opposite isn't true either, maybe slightly so. Strategy and decision making won Dark the series big time. This result is surprising, of course, since Serral on average is faster and has better mechanics than Dark; it was crystal clear during the series they played in 2018-2019 and, I would say, it could be noticed even in the close 3-2 Serral won two weeks ago. okay, this is definitely the "damage control" Rotti was accused of doing. "Dark won only because he chose better builds, he's still inferior in micro and macro" Jeez, how salty are you? I am not salty, I am disappointed; and not because Serral lost but because of how atrocious was his decision making during the finals. Salty is what you are whenever Serral wins anything, you should know that feeling very well. If you want me to say that Dark is superior to Serral mechanically speaking while on overage it's the opposite that's true: check their apm/Epm, look at their games without being irremediably korean biased and you'll know that how it is. During these last finals, Dark was equal to or slightly better than Serral mechanically but I wouldn't expect this to happen on a regular basis and it wasn't even a key factor in the 4-0: Dark won mostly because he chose better builds, yes. Show nested quote +On December 25 2020 05:27 allmotor1 wrote:On December 25 2020 02:34 Xain0n wrote:On December 24 2020 17:15 BerserkSword wrote:On December 23 2020 05:17 Xain0n wrote:
Nah, not really. It's not that Dark's micro, micro or multitasking were better than Serral's, we barely had any moment in the series in which these could be decisive elements; on the other hand, Dark's build orders and decision making were infinitely superior to Serral's in every game they played and the 4-0 is a consequence of that that.
I disagree. In game 1, Serral messed up his queen positioning for a split second and Dark immediately got the surround that won him the game. In game 2, Serral's first roach bane push was a disaster because Dark out micro'd Serral. Between setting up concaves and killing serral's banes with his own, Dark got an insurmountable lead because he outmicro'd Serral. That led to Serral's all-in in which his biles were off point and Dark was engaging everything with finesse. In game 3 - Serral had problems keeping up with Dark's multitasking. Dark did have the build order advantage, but he was also blocking every single effort of Serral to have some map awareness. Serral couldnt even get changelings out. In game 4 - Serral won the build order i believe, and still lost. Serral, with his timing, couldnt engage well enough in Dark's sim city and didnt target fire well enough. So while Dark did win most of the build orders, that's not the only reason Serral got rolled 4-0. Dark just better mechanically Why is it even so surprising? Serral lost a grueling ZvZ to Reynor at blizzcon, and then Dark just steamrolled Reynor mechanically. Dark is a monster Just no. In game 1, it was Serral who won the early engagement after the 12 pool and that made Dark opt for the ling flood that which won him the game because Serral wasn't expecting it. In game 2, the build order was simply terrible for Serral, his roaches hit for the first time when he's down 14 workers but has almost no advantage in army supply In game 3 Dark surely had the initiative and kept Serral busy with his multitasking but it's not like he inflicted fatal damage because of it, the build order was the reason he won. Only for game 4 I agree that Serral could have been ahead as far as build orders go and played it kind of subpar. For sure Serral didn't play better than Dark throughout the whole series but the opposite isn't true either, maybe slightly so. Strategy and decision making won Dark the series big time. This result is surprising, of course, since Serral on average is faster and has better mechanics than Dark; it was crystal clear during the series they played in 2018-2019 and, I would say, it could be noticed even in the close 3-2 Serral won two weeks ago. you said dark didn't play better than serral throughout the whole series, yea ok. You are biased and don't accuse others of being a troll, you basiclly are one too. And you ignored his part about how dark totally outclassed reynor last year right after reynor beat serral. You can go on all day in circles, fact is serral lost 0-4 decisively. its ok, serral will be alright. I mean, it should have been obvious if you cared to read that I was referring to their mechanics only. Overall, Dark played much better than Serral. Dark outclassing Reynor last BlizzCon looks like an exception considering that 2019 was Dark's best year in Sc2 and he kept losing ZvZ when it mattered except for that series; good for him that he was in such shape that day and also Reynor probably wasn't at the level he reached in 2020(even if he had already started beating Serral). Also, Serral's g5 against Reynor was a huge throw, the worst of his career after becoming a champion.
dude anybody can see how biased you are. you did it again, diminishing dark's win vs reynor in 2019 under the guise you are complimenting him.
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EPT
