On December 25 2020 08:57 Charoisaur wrote: and when I think it can't get worse Xainon brings up APM as "proof" Serral is still superior mechanically after losing 0-4....
I'm out of here
Yeah, not really what he said, but not surprised you're being reductive on this topic.
Serral deserved to lose their second series, because no player has ever exploited his distaste for mutalisks in such a concerted manner, not even Reynor--and Serral had no response to it. It colored every one of his decisions and strategies, and Dark punished him for it relentlessly. Serral's proven to be a more than capable muta player when he's tried, so if he's going to completely abandon a legitimate avenue of play, he needs to respond with better builds or more unique responses in the future.
As an aside, it's kind of a joke this serralfan18 guy gets to troll with impunity in such a blatant and transparent fashion. I mean, Jesus, he's not even subtle or amusing about it. I'm not sure if I'm more impressed with his audacity or the lack of forum moderation to address it.
On December 25 2020 08:57 Charoisaur wrote: and when I think it can't get worse Xainon brings up APM as "proof" Serral is still superior mechanically after losing 0-4....
I'm out of here
You are welcome.
However, if you read more carefully you'll find out I am not saying what you just wrote.
it's literally what you said
If you want me to say that Dark is superior to Serral mechanically speaking while on overage it's the opposite that's true: check their apm/Epm, look at their games without being irremediably korean biased and you'll know that how it is.
or did someone else write this?
I have noticed this often with you - when Serral beats someone it's proof he's the superior player. when he loses to someone it means Serral had a bad day, was sick, wasn't playing at his peak, or now: "is still the better player but chose worse builds"
On December 25 2020 08:57 Charoisaur wrote: and when I think it can't get worse Xainon brings up APM as "proof" Serral is still superior mechanically after losing 0-4....
I have noticed this often with you - when Serral beats someone it's proof he's the superior player. when he loses to someone it means Serral had a bad day, was sick, wasn't playing at his peak, or now: "is still the better player but chose worse builds"
On December 25 2020 10:20 WombaT wrote: They’re about equal mechanically judging from the many FPVoDs I’ve gone through with a fine toothcomb.
Where Serral tends to be better is in a stable ZvZ that transitions to hive, which wasn’t how the series went.
Dark is more ballsy and has more variety, indeed Serral has tried to have more all-ins and weird stuff as part of this year. I’d argue it hasn’t really worked all that well.
In theory a Serral with more all-ins and weirdness is just a better Serral, but I just don’t think he’s wired like Dark is in this regard. Similarly to how Stats is just better being Stats 9/10 times.
But mechanically I don’t think there’s much between them at all
I think these are the 2 best posts here. Everyone knows by now that Xanion is the most deluded person here. None of his arguments make any sense and he is constantly getting lost in his own shitloops. "Chose worse builds but is still better" is the newest and probably the most pathetic excuse so far Ueeeee (crying in his sleep) but Serral was better in 2018 than Dark, that mean he is still the better player now. Xanion logic at its best :D
I also like WombaTs post. I really dont think there is much difference between Dark and Serral, and there never was. Its mostly about form and META. Dark is on absolute roll in the last couple of weeks and the META seems to favor the less standard and weirder ZvZ now, in which Dark thrives in a lot more. Both of them are great players, obviously Serral would have to prove himself in GSL and other Korean offline tournaments to ever be considered on Darks level, but skill wise I really think they are very close.
On December 25 2020 08:57 Charoisaur wrote: and when I think it can't get worse Xainon brings up APM as "proof" Serral is still superior mechanically after losing 0-4....
I'm out of here
You are welcome.
However, if you read more carefully you'll find out I am not saying what you just wrote.
If you want me to say that Dark is superior to Serral mechanically speaking while on overage it's the opposite that's true: check their apm/Epm, look at their games without being irremediably korean biased and you'll know that how it is.
or did someone else write this?
I have noticed this often with you - when Serral beats someone it's proof he's the superior player. when he loses to someone it means Serral had a bad day, was sick, wasn't playing at his peak, or now: "is still the better player but chose worse builds"
That's what I wrote but you keep misunderstanding. Except for what I could see while it was played, I can't tell you who was objectively faster in their last series nor I could be since the replay wasn't released yet.
I instead said that Serral has been faster than Dark on average on a regular basis, even in recent times. Such difference starts to become noticeable when the game drags longer, according to objective criteria that everyone could check.
When Serral wins I usually say nothing or compliment him with very few exceptions, when Serral loses what I write it's really up to how he lost.
I find a little weird that Dark has been almost irrelevant in the last six months and now everyone seems convinced he's the best player in the world, without any doubt. Can't deny that he was impressive last weekend, that he seems to be back at top level and that he deservingly won TSL 6. On the other hand, Trap won two tournaments in a week and nobody said a word, how's that?
On December 25 2020 08:57 Charoisaur wrote: and when I think it can't get worse Xainon brings up APM as "proof" Serral is still superior mechanically after losing 0-4....
I have noticed this often with you - when Serral beats someone it's proof he's the superior player. when he loses to someone it means Serral had a bad day, was sick, wasn't playing at his peak, or now: "is still the better player but chose worse builds"
On December 25 2020 10:20 WombaT wrote: They’re about equal mechanically judging from the many FPVoDs I’ve gone through with a fine toothcomb.
Where Serral tends to be better is in a stable ZvZ that transitions to hive, which wasn’t how the series went.
Dark is more ballsy and has more variety, indeed Serral has tried to have more all-ins and weird stuff as part of this year. I’d argue it hasn’t really worked all that well.
In theory a Serral with more all-ins and weirdness is just a better Serral, but I just don’t think he’s wired like Dark is in this regard. Similarly to how Stats is just better being Stats 9/10 times.
But mechanically I don’t think there’s much between them at all
I think these are the 2 best posts here. Everyone knows by now that Xanion is the most deluded person here. None of his arguments make any sense and he is constantly getting lost in his own shitloops. "Chose worse builds but is still better" is the newest and probably the most pathetic excuse so far Ueeeee (crying in his sleep) but Serral was better in 2018 than Dark, that mean he is still the better player now. Xanion logic at its best :D
I also like WombaTs post. I really dont think there is much difference between Dark and Serral, and there never was. Its mostly about form and META. Dark is on absolute roll in the last couple of weeks and the META seems to favor the less standard and weirder ZvZ now, in which Dark thrives in a lot more. Both of them are great players, obviously Serral would have to prove himself in GSL and other Korean offline tournaments to ever be considered on Darks level, but skill wise I really think they are very close.
I like Wombat's post too, I agree with his analysis about Dark's and Serral's different styles; however, Serral is a more mechanically gifted player than Dark. Of course this doesn't mean Dark isn't, it's not like the difference in mechanics is huge and it doesn't even mean that Serral is always faster; on average, he is.
As for the rest, failing to write my name properly every time definitely doesn't make you look smarter, you know? Just as declaring me deluded and saying that my arguments don't make any sense doesn't really get on well together with stating that "OBVIOUSLY Serral would have to play himself in GSL to ever be considered on Dark's level"; I am the deluded one, really? Don't make me laugh.
On December 25 2020 08:57 Charoisaur wrote: and when I think it can't get worse Xainon brings up APM as "proof" Serral is still superior mechanically after losing 0-4....
I have noticed this often with you - when Serral beats someone it's proof he's the superior player. when he loses to someone it means Serral had a bad day, was sick, wasn't playing at his peak, or now: "is still the better player but chose worse builds"
On December 25 2020 10:20 WombaT wrote: They’re about equal mechanically judging from the many FPVoDs I’ve gone through with a fine toothcomb.
Where Serral tends to be better is in a stable ZvZ that transitions to hive, which wasn’t how the series went.
Dark is more ballsy and has more variety, indeed Serral has tried to have more all-ins and weird stuff as part of this year. I’d argue it hasn’t really worked all that well.
In theory a Serral with more all-ins and weirdness is just a better Serral, but I just don’t think he’s wired like Dark is in this regard. Similarly to how Stats is just better being Stats 9/10 times.
But mechanically I don’t think there’s much between them at all
I think these are the 2 best posts here. Everyone knows by now that Xanion is the most deluded person here. None of his arguments make any sense and he is constantly getting lost in his own shitloops. "Chose worse builds but is still better" is the newest and probably the most pathetic excuse so far Ueeeee (crying in his sleep) but Serral was better in 2018 than Dark, that mean he is still the better player now. Xanion logic at its best :D
I also like WombaTs post. I really dont think there is much difference between Dark and Serral, and there never was. Its mostly about form and META. Dark is on absolute roll in the last couple of weeks and the META seems to favor the less standard and weirder ZvZ now, in which Dark thrives in a lot more. Both of them are great players, obviously Serral would have to prove himself in GSL and other Korean offline tournaments to ever be considered on Darks level, but skill wise I really think they are very close.
To throw an even more extreme example, soO has incredible mechanics but especially latterly his transitions to lategame weren’t smooth, to put it mildly.
There are differences between these players but I don’t see much of a mechanical gap there anyway.
If it's true that Serral is on average "faster" than Dark how can it be that Dark is better in the matchup in which mechanics are most important (ZvT)?
On December 26 2020 01:55 Charoisaur wrote: If it's true that Serral is on average "faster" than Dark how can it be that Dark is better in the matchup in which mechanics are most important (ZvT)?
Is he? That's a conviction of yours and I'm sure any further discussion wouldn't change it to the point that it would be fruitless to insist. However, Serral has been better in ZvT during 2020,for sure and the last time Dark was undoubtedly better than Serral in the matchup was in early 2018.
On December 26 2020 01:55 Charoisaur wrote: If it's true that Serral is on average "faster" than Dark how can it be that Dark is better in the matchup in which mechanics are most important (ZvT)?
EPT
Ueeeee (crying in his sleep) but Serral was better in 2018 than Dark, that mean he is still the better player now. Xanion logic at its best :D
