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jpg06051992
United States580 Posts
If Reynor had kept up on his macro and he would have had simply too much for Clem to handle, not digging that late game play from Reynor at all. Gratz to Clem though, the guy is a multitasking wizard and it's nice to see a new foreign Terran kick some ass. | ||
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Bagration
United States18282 Posts
On November 15 2020 04:23 ZigguratOfUr wrote: He still has a long long way to go. He's far behind Snute or HerO right now, let alone Taeja. Of course - I'm making a forecast here. But I think given Clem's age, his current ability, and the state of the scene, he has a good shot by the end of his career | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On November 15 2020 04:25 Calliope wrote: Doubt the lurkers were the problem, they pretty much decimated Clem's army in the end. The problem was getting there. Which is why: | ||
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miniskirt
France487 Posts
On November 15 2020 04:25 Calliope wrote: Doubt the lurkers were the problem, they pretty much decimated Clem's army in the end. Yeah, perfect surround and 5 lurkers were still not dying... | ||
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
On November 15 2020 04:22 Penev wrote: looks like we're getting a non zerg tournament win, might even be a Protoss go get 'm sig Hate to be a hater but this looks exactly like a Serral win to me | ||
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fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium4037 Posts
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Rubicant1
115 Posts
On November 15 2020 04:06 warnull wrote: Top players from 2011-2013 would have no chance against top players today. Eh, peak MVP with intact wrists and He-Who-Shall-Not-Be-Named could compete and win in any era. I mean, DRG made a ro4 GSL like 7-8 years after his peak. | ||
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jpg06051992
United States580 Posts
On November 15 2020 04:26 ZigguratOfUr wrote: The problem was getting there. Which is why: https://twitter.com/Reynor02/status/1327694119196614656 Agree, the Lurker transition against Terrans is extremely risky, strikes me as more of a win more strategy. Plain and simple to me is the same reason why Hydra play was all the rage at one point in ZvT and now it just looks plain bad. You need Mutalisks against Terran, especially drop happy Terrans, they are a necessity. | ||
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stilt
France2754 Posts
On November 15 2020 04:26 jpg06051992 wrote: Not sure why top Zergs are obsessed with this fancy finesse play with the Lurkers and Vipers against Terran. Terrans have already seemed to adapt to it with the classic response to the Hydra play, and that is to simply go where they are not and brute force where the Zerg is weak, ie where the Lurkers aren't entrenched. If Reynor had kept up on his macro and he would have had simply too much for Clem to handle, not digging that late game play from Reynor at all. Gratz to Clem though, the guy is a multitasking wizard and it's nice to see a new foreign Terran kick some ass. The fourth game is loss due to a very poor reaction to a drop on the fourth bases. The third because of a lack of range upgrads which allowed clem to abuse a good position. The first one, well, he just get crushed in the early. He made mistakes which had nothing to do with lurkers being inefficients. Oh, he deleted it, I guess he is tilted with french guys trolling him, I can understand, that's not very classy but alas, that's internet sadly. | ||
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AzAlexZ
Australia3303 Posts
On November 14 2020 03:53 AzAlexZ wrote: damn, this Ro8 is amazing My predictions though: (All Heart)  Neeb 3-1  TY Serral 3-2 TimeStats 3-1 AstreaClem 3-2 Reynor4/4 LET'S GOO, just shy off map scores in 3 series also Ro4 predictions: (again, all Heart) Neeb 3-2 SerralClem 3-2 Stats | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On November 15 2020 04:29 jpg06051992 wrote: Agree, the Lurker transition against Terrans is extremely risky, strikes me as more of a win more strategy. Plain and simple to me is the same reason why Hydra play was all the rage at one point in ZvT and now it just looks plain bad. You need Mutalisks against Terran, especially drop happy Terrans, they are a necessity. I wouldn't call it a win-more strategy. If you only end up somewhat behind rather than very behind, lurkers can do a lot to help you stabilize and then win the game. But not ending up very far behind can be difficult as we saw here. | ||
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Penev
28512 Posts
On November 15 2020 04:27 sneakyfox wrote: Hate to be a hater but this looks exactly like a Serral win to me I have faith | ||
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Penev
28512 Posts
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Poopi
France12907 Posts
I think he is favored to win it all now | ||
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jpg06051992
United States580 Posts
On November 15 2020 04:29 stilt wrote: The fourth game is loss due to a very poor reaction to a drop on the fourth bases. The third because of a lack of range upgrads which allowed clem to abuse a good position. The first one, well, he just get crushed in the early. He made mistakes which had nothing to do with lurkers being inefficients. Oh, he deleted it, I guess he is tilted with french guys trolling him, I can understand, that's not very classy but alas, that's internet sadly. Yea but only the first game is a testament to Lurkers not being the issue here. His reaction to the drop in the fourth was because he sunk huge money and time into units that just don't defend drops well compared to Mutas and couldn't even afford enough lings to make a mobile defense force. The third game is another great example imo, Lurkers which are a late game unit need yet another late game upgrade after seismic spines to be efficient vs T, Clem abused this and struck early before the doom ball could be completed. Lurkers are very efficient when you walk into them unprepared or try to stand there and muscle them down like Clem was doing at the end of the last game where he lost like 45 supply in 8 seconds to the Lurkers, the rest of the game? As I said before, classic response to Hydra play, just drop everywhere. Lurkers aren't a bad unit, but they seem to be unreliable in top level ZvT play against Terrans who know how to deal with the unit comp. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26225 Posts
Very impressive showing, seemed to find every potential avenue of attack in that last set while not haemorrhaging units | ||
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MyLovelyLurker
France756 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On November 15 2020 04:36 WombaT wrote: Is Clem doing stuff better than even a few months ago or was Reynor just not right on top of things today? Very impressive showing, seemed to find every potential avenue of attack in that last set while not haemorrhaging units A bit of both I'd say + terran doing better in general. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26225 Posts
On November 15 2020 04:34 jpg06051992 wrote: Yea but only the first game is a testament to Lurkers not being the issue here. His reaction to the drop in the fourth was because he sunk huge money and time into units that just don't defend drops well compared to Mutas and couldn't even afford enough lings to make a mobile defense force. The third game is another great example imo, Lurkers which are a late game unit need yet another late game upgrade after seismic spines to be efficient vs T, Clem abused this and struck early before the doom ball could be completed. Lurkers are very efficient when you walk into them unprepared or try to stand there and muscle them down like Clem was doing at the end of the last game where he lost like 45 supply in 8 seconds to the Lurkers, the rest of the game? As I said before, classic response to Hydra play, just drop everywhere. Lurkers aren't a bad unit, but they seem to be unreliable in top level ZvT play against Terrans who know how to deal with the unit comp. It wasn’t that long ago that Reynor’s lurker vT looked borderline broken, so a real testament to how T players have been working on playing against it. And testament to Reynor for making it such a potent style, Reynor lurkers are levels above most other Zergs who try to make that work. | ||
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jpg06051992
United States580 Posts
On November 15 2020 04:40 WombaT wrote: It wasn’t that long ago that Reynor’s lurker vT looked borderline broken, so a real testament to how T players have been working on playing against it. And testament to Reynor for making it such a potent style, Reynor lurkers are levels above most other Zergs who try to make that work. I agree with both of these statements, Terrans have figured it out, and Reynor IS good at it. | ||
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