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On July 17 2020 05:54 WardiTV wrote:
It's almost like everybody just has different tastes when it comes to casting. Nobody is going to 100% please everybody.
I truly though that at Katowice this year I showed what I could do with my casting. Lots of hype and energy, lots of game knowledge, meta knowledge, details about how the players play and their form lately etc. I went into the event with something to prove and I really think I did it.
Can't cast that every day of the week though, especially on long solo casts that go every day. You're talking about the difference of casting 4-5 series in a day where you are looked after, have time to prep for each series before you cast it, time to rest your voice and get ready to go for the cast, vs sitting in my room I sit in every day, for the 10th day straight doing 8+hours and casting online tournaments which in general are not as exciting because there is less on the line, and not every game is great. Some days are! When I cast the Douyu cup and we have Reynor playing out of his mind I'm super excited and ready to shout about it. But when nothing happens for 8 minutes in the next ZvZ, its going to be a different tone.
I'm fully capable of getting hyped and I do on my stream. But if I start shouting and screaming in the first series of the day, its a negative knock on for the rest of the day. I know this and thats why I am more calm and steady. Same issues produce the same stuff right, I cast a lot and so a lot of my phrases get used a lot. I explain the same situations a lot, so its also hard to create the hype sometimes. I make it more interesting for myself and the stream by talking with chat (like every streamer does, btw) which sometimes means I miss something or piss someone off. But at the end of the day, I'm also a streamer, not just a caster. People didn't subscribe when all I did was talk about the game and ignore chat. People didn't support, because that's not how streaming works. It's a completely different role, but I appreciate that it's hard to realize that as a viewer.
You could probably even argue the I cast too much, but if I didn't cast so much I wouldn't be paying my bills. At the end of the day I'm happy with my casting and I've learned to live with the fact a lot of people hate it and all they can say is "well at least he does loads for the scene!!" before shitting over me. That's the internet and life in general. I'm not a personality enough to be consistently funny or put myself out there or tell jokes or to keep everything interesting, and so I'll never tick the boxes of people who are looking for that in a cast.
I will say that I find the DreamHack casting to be very difficult to bring my 100% to, because it's hard to change out of the mindset that I'm at home and this is a bigger event. We are casting multiple series back to back with 3-4 minutes of breaks for multiple hours. I still think I cast better in DreamHack than I do on my own stream, but it doesn't compare to how I casted at Katowice. I've tried a few things to change it up and to get myself in a better mindset. I even broke my new diet and eating habits which I was doing super great at and making loads of progress with because I was afraid it was holding me back from doing what I could. Also sucks that I only got about 3 days of casting out of the event, because I hosted the first week. Not a lot of time to settle down into co-casting etc and to figure out these things. Hoping I can bring some energy and hype for the first couple games tomorrow~~
Anyways, just thought I'd chime in as the discussion came up. Hoping to bring the power tomorrow.
It's also been fun hosting, definitely a different experience and I feel like I learned a lot (though today was tough, I don't know why but I was just constantly slipping up over myself..) but I 100% prefer casting, even if I am just stuck on my own channel and not hired by larger events. I don't want to slip into the hosting void you can never escape as Kaelaris talks about ;d
1000% Agree; and you were awesome today and specially on point during the team league draft cast. Really nice to see you growing as a caster and building up the confidence that allow you to do a bit of banter form time to time. GG
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On July 17 2020 05:54 WardiTV wrote:
It's almost like everybody just has different tastes when it comes to casting. Nobody is going to 100% please everybody.
I truly though that at Katowice this year I showed what I could do with my casting. Lots of hype and energy, lots of game knowledge, meta knowledge, details about how the players play and their form lately etc. I went into the event with something to prove and I really think I did it.
Can't cast that every day of the week though, especially on long solo casts that go every day. You're talking about the difference of casting 4-5 series in a day where you are looked after, have time to prep for each series before you cast it, time to rest your voice and get ready to go for the cast, vs sitting in my room I sit in every day, for the 10th day straight doing 8+hours and casting online tournaments which in general are not as exciting because there is less on the line, and not every game is great. Some days are! When I cast the Douyu cup and we have Reynor playing out of his mind I'm super excited and ready to shout about it. But when nothing happens for 8 minutes in the next ZvZ, its going to be a different tone.
I'm fully capable of getting hyped and I do on my stream. But if I start shouting and screaming in the first series of the day, its a negative knock on for the rest of the day. I know this and thats why I am more calm and steady. Same issues produce the same stuff right, I cast a lot and so a lot of my phrases get used a lot. I explain the same situations a lot, so its also hard to create the hype sometimes. I make it more interesting for myself and the stream by talking with chat (like every streamer does, btw) which sometimes means I miss something or piss someone off. But at the end of the day, I'm also a streamer, not just a caster. People didn't subscribe when all I did was talk about the game and ignore chat. People didn't support, because that's not how streaming works. It's a completely different role, but I appreciate that it's hard to realize that as a viewer.
You could probably even argue the I cast too much, but if I didn't cast so much I wouldn't be paying my bills. At the end of the day I'm happy with my casting and I've learned to live with the fact a lot of people hate it and all they can say is "well at least he does loads for the scene!!" before shitting over me. That's the internet and life in general. I'm not a personality enough to be consistently funny or put myself out there or tell jokes or to keep everything interesting, and so I'll never tick the boxes of people who are looking for that in a cast.
I will say that I find the DreamHack casting to be very difficult to bring my 100% to, because it's hard to change out of the mindset that I'm at home and this is a bigger event. We are casting multiple series back to back with 3-4 minutes of breaks for multiple hours. I still think I cast better in DreamHack than I do on my own stream, but it doesn't compare to how I casted at Katowice. I've tried a few things to change it up and to get myself in a better mindset. I even broke my new diet and eating habits which I was doing super great at and making loads of progress with because I was afraid it was holding me back from doing what I could. Also sucks that I only got about 3 days of casting out of the event, because I hosted the first week. Not a lot of time to settle down into co-casting etc and to figure out these things. Hoping I can bring some energy and hype for the first couple games tomorrow~~
Anyways, just thought I'd chime in as the discussion came up. Hoping to bring the power tomorrow.
It's also been fun hosting, definitely a different experience and I feel like I learned a lot (though today was tough, I don't know why but I was just constantly slipping up over myself..) but I 100% prefer casting, even if I am just stuck on my own channel and not hired by larger events. I don't want to slip into the hosting void you can never escape as Kaelaris talks about ;d
First of all, thanks for all the work you do for sc2 and all the stuff we get to enjoy as a result.
Then, reading your post I can't help thinking that you really didn't need to write it. I mean it's perfectly fine if you feel like it, but it's just not necessary to respond to that small caster-discussion that took place. And imo you have absolutely nothing that you need to justify.
In any kind of sports, the people who are into it will talk about casters/commentators just as naturally as they talk about players and teams. The commentators on TV are also a part of the sport and therefore people who watch it a lot will have opinions about them, and will have some they like and others they don't like so much. All this talk goes on, and nobody ever really cares much about it.
But for esports it's different, obviously, because conversations take place on forums instead of in-person, and then the casters can actually follow these conversations. But I don't think you need to take it any more seriously than the everyday chat on the pub around football matches. People just say some stuff - it doesn't really matter.
And like you wrote at first: you can never make everyone happy anyway. So, maybe you'd try to bring more energy to the cast and some people will like it, but others will think "why is he shouting so much - I wish he would calm down a bit". Imo all you can do is try to do your thing well and it'll probably work out fine. In any case, most people are perfectly aware that the conditions for casting are much better if you can focus only on that, rather than having to do observing+organising+chat+whatever simultaneously.
That said, it is of course possible to get feedback from viewers and use that to improve, but it should probably be done in a way where it is explicitly about getting feedback. I'm certain that the majority of people who write about casters on forums would do it differently if they were specifically giving caster feedback (rather than just saying whatever pops up in their mind - which is precisely what we do in LRs).
Still, there will always be that minority of people who are simply assholes with no good intentions, but who shout so loud that they sometimes appear to be the majority. But that's just the internet - all you can really do about it is to not pay attention.
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On July 17 2020 05:54 WardiTV wrote:
It's almost like everybody just has different tastes when it comes to casting. Nobody is going to 100% please everybody.
I truly though that at Katowice this year I showed what I could do with my casting. Lots of hype and energy, lots of game knowledge, meta knowledge, details about how the players play and their form lately etc. I went into the event with something to prove and I really think I did it.
Can't cast that every day of the week though, especially on long solo casts that go every day. You're talking about the difference of casting 4-5 series in a day where you are looked after, have time to prep for each series before you cast it, time to rest your voice and get ready to go for the cast, vs sitting in my room I sit in every day, for the 10th day straight doing 8+hours and casting online tournaments which in general are not as exciting because there is less on the line, and not every game is great. Some days are! When I cast the Douyu cup and we have Reynor playing out of his mind I'm super excited and ready to shout about it. But when nothing happens for 8 minutes in the next ZvZ, its going to be a different tone.
I'm fully capable of getting hyped and I do on my stream. But if I start shouting and screaming in the first series of the day, its a negative knock on for the rest of the day. I know this and thats why I am more calm and steady. Same issues produce the same stuff right, I cast a lot and so a lot of my phrases get used a lot. I explain the same situations a lot, so its also hard to create the hype sometimes. I make it more interesting for myself and the stream by talking with chat (like every streamer does, btw) which sometimes means I miss something or piss someone off. But at the end of the day, I'm also a streamer, not just a caster. People didn't subscribe when all I did was talk about the game and ignore chat. People didn't support, because that's not how streaming works. It's a completely different role, but I appreciate that it's hard to realize that as a viewer.
You could probably even argue the I cast too much, but if I didn't cast so much I wouldn't be paying my bills. At the end of the day I'm happy with my casting and I've learned to live with the fact a lot of people hate it and all they can say is "well at least he does loads for the scene!!" before shitting over me. That's the internet and life in general. I'm not a personality enough to be consistently funny or put myself out there or tell jokes or to keep everything interesting, and so I'll never tick the boxes of people who are looking for that in a cast.
I will say that I find the DreamHack casting to be very difficult to bring my 100% to, because it's hard to change out of the mindset that I'm at home and this is a bigger event. We are casting multiple series back to back with 3-4 minutes of breaks for multiple hours. I still think I cast better in DreamHack than I do on my own stream, but it doesn't compare to how I casted at Katowice. I've tried a few things to change it up and to get myself in a better mindset. I even broke my new diet and eating habits which I was doing super great at and making loads of progress with because I was afraid it was holding me back from doing what I could. Also sucks that I only got about 3 days of casting out of the event, because I hosted the first week. Not a lot of time to settle down into co-casting etc and to figure out these things. Hoping I can bring some energy and hype for the first couple games tomorrow~~
Anyways, just thought I'd chime in as the discussion came up. Hoping to bring the power tomorrow.
It's also been fun hosting, definitely a different experience and I feel like I learned a lot (though today was tough, I don't know why but I was just constantly slipping up over myself..) but I 100% prefer casting, even if I am just stuck on my own channel and not hired by larger events. I don't want to slip into the hosting void you can never escape as Kaelaris talks about ;d
I've actually grown to like your casting quite a lot, though tbh I didn't always feel 100% that way. Which is to say you've improved tremendously (not that you were ever bad) and are legitimately good now. More importantly, you've done and continue to do a tremendous amount for this community and the people who still care about a 10+ year old game. Anytime you achieve anything of note in the public eye, there's going to be critics, but I think you should feel great about your casting, and I'm sure it'll continue to reach new levels.
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Northern Ireland27464 Posts
Another fine day of Starcraft and I enjoyed all the casters really. Think they all did a good job and had their various strengths.
Loved having a chance to see more Creighton, he’s got a lovely turn of phrase as a colour commentator.
Feardragon really knows his Starcraft and pairs really well with Catz too, liked that duo.
Idk. If you’re an experienced Starcraft player/watcher you should vaguely know what’s going on, for me the casting is more like sitting watching the games with some buddies, arguing over who’s doing better, salivating over builds and players or whatever.
With this in mind I don’t really get much of the caster bashing, if you’re reading the game better than them, there are few casters who are going to outdo your knowledge and they’ll be flying way above the heads of a large chunk of the audience.
We get that high level stuff at HSC anyway, and historically I think Grubby and IdrA were two of my favourite casters ever in terms of pure insight, ToD too.
But really for a mixed audience I think almost all of our current roster of casters do a great job. My personal tastes would be for hardcore analysis interspersed with Tasteless talking about the Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles or bunnies tails falling off in the downtime, but that would be a nonsensical tone to put out for most folks.
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BOI Maru plays today! Hype!
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Neeb really has used the whole Covid thing to get some upper body and arm strength.
I mean the way he can throw games is amazing. Should start a career in MLB 
EDIT: I apparently missed a big discussion about the casters? From what I've seen this was pretty great so far. Obviously everyone has different preferences
@ All the casters: You are doing great! Don't let yourself get dragged down by a few dumbhats
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Today will be good. I'm predicting:
C: 1. Reynor, 2. Maru, 3. Astrea, 4. Special
D: 1. Trap, 2. Clem, 3. Cure, 4. Has
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I m just hoping Reynor vs Maru happend, will actually be good and both of them get out of this group.
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Why do they insist on playing these matches so late in the day? Half of these players are starting midnight and will have to go through possibly 3-4 am.
It's only a good timeframe for Reynor and Clem, and it's not like they couldn't be playing 6 hours earlier
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On July 17 2020 23:07 Fango wrote:
Why do they insist on playing these matches so late in the day? Half of these players are starting midnight and will have to go through possibly 3-4 am.
It's only a good timeframe for Reynor and Clem, and it's not like they couldn't be playing 6 hours earlier
I think for the viewership? At least for europeans is perfect time.
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On July 17 2020 23:07 Fango wrote:
Why do they insist on playing these matches so late in the day? Half of these players are starting midnight and will have to go through possibly 3-4 am.
It's only a good timeframe for Reynor and Clem, and it's not like they couldn't be playing 6 hours earlier
Today it makes sense to do it for the viewers in EU and the Americas. But in the weekend I really don't get it. It would be a lot fairer to do it at least two hours earlier.
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So has anyone overslept yet? We know from yesterday that this is an early advantage but as the groups go on loses its effect.
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On July 17 2020 23:13 Elentos wrote:
So has anyone overslept yet? We know from yesterday that this is an early advantage but as the groups go on loses its effect.
Who overslept yesterday?
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On July 17 2020 23:13 Elentos wrote:
So has anyone overslept yet? We know from yesterday that this is an early advantage but as the groups go on loses its effect.
I think we can at least give people the customary 9999ms before we start pointing fingers.
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On July 17 2020 23:15 Musicus wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2020 23:13 Elentos wrote:
So has anyone overslept yet? We know from yesterday that this is an early advantage but as the groups go on loses its effect. Who overslept yesterday?
TIME was 20 minutes late.
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On July 17 2020 23:15 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2020 23:15 Musicus wrote:On July 17 2020 23:13 Elentos wrote:
So has anyone overslept yet? We know from yesterday that this is an early advantage but as the groups go on loses its effect. Who overslept yesterday? TIME was 20 minutes late.
Oh damn, okay.
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Canada8991 Posts
On July 17 2020 23:09 sneakyfox wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2020 23:07 Fango wrote:
Why do they insist on playing these matches so late in the day? Half of these players are starting midnight and will have to go through possibly 3-4 am.
It's only a good timeframe for Reynor and Clem, and it's not like they couldn't be playing 6 hours earlier Today it makes sense to do it for the viewers in EU and the Americas. But in the weekend I really don't get it. It would be a lot fairer to do it at least two hours earlier.
I don't really get how playing the matches between 8-10 am and 2-4 pm on a week day make any sense for American viewers honestly. I get why they do it, but it's pretty much only good EU hours.
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On July 17 2020 23:16 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2020 23:09 sneakyfox wrote:On July 17 2020 23:07 Fango wrote:
Why do they insist on playing these matches so late in the day? Half of these players are starting midnight and will have to go through possibly 3-4 am.
It's only a good timeframe for Reynor and Clem, and it's not like they couldn't be playing 6 hours earlier Today it makes sense to do it for the viewers in EU and the Americas. But in the weekend I really don't get it. It would be a lot fairer to do it at least two hours earlier. I don't really get how playing the matches between 8-10 am and 2-4 pm on a week day make any sense for American viewers honestly. I get why they do it, but it's pretty much only good EU hours.
certainly better than 4 AM like the blizzcon finals for EU :D
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On July 17 2020 23:16 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2020 23:09 sneakyfox wrote:On July 17 2020 23:07 Fango wrote:
Why do they insist on playing these matches so late in the day? Half of these players are starting midnight and will have to go through possibly 3-4 am.
It's only a good timeframe for Reynor and Clem, and it's not like they couldn't be playing 6 hours earlier Today it makes sense to do it for the viewers in EU and the Americas. But in the weekend I really don't get it. It would be a lot fairer to do it at least two hours earlier. I don't really get how playing the matches between 8-10 am and 2-4 pm on a week day make any sense for American viewers honestly. I get why they do it, but it's pretty much only good EU hours.
That same range is what people call the "EU time slot" for GSL so clearly given that a fair amount of players participate from Korea this is fair
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On July 17 2020 23:16 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2020 23:09 sneakyfox wrote:On July 17 2020 23:07 Fango wrote:
Why do they insist on playing these matches so late in the day? Half of these players are starting midnight and will have to go through possibly 3-4 am.
It's only a good timeframe for Reynor and Clem, and it's not like they couldn't be playing 6 hours earlier Today it makes sense to do it for the viewers in EU and the Americas. But in the weekend I really don't get it. It would be a lot fairer to do it at least two hours earlier. I don't really get how playing the matches between 8-10 am and 2-4 pm on a week day make any sense for American viewers honestly. I get why they do it, but it's pretty much only good EU hours.
Point taken. But at least this way american viewers with the right amount of passion can follow it
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EPT
