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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51485 Posts
 GSL Season 3Streams & CastersFormat
Map Pool QuarterfinalsResultsCSS: FO-nTTaX Awesomeness: Panda Banner: GSL | ||
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51485 Posts
Poll: Rogue vs Zest (take 2!) Rogue Wins (24) Zest Wins (12) 36 total votes Your vote: Rogue vs Zest (take 2!) | ||
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
maru 3-0 ragnarok | ||
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Zaros
United Kingdom3692 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25341 Posts
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
Ragnarok should win this, and be a dominant player in future. As far as I am hoping for Rogue to move into next stage, I do not feel that he is suppressing his mental block yet.. | ||
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zergtat
Hong Kong853 Posts
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onPHYRE
Bulgaria923 Posts
Hoping for Ragnarok but I think he gets close and loses 3-2. | ||
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Zambrah
United States7298 Posts
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ToKoreaWithLove
Norway10161 Posts
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JoeCool
Germany2520 Posts
Maru vs. Ragnarok should be a one-sided 3-0. Don't expect much from Ragnarok. Currently there are two maybe three Zerg that could go toe to toe with Maru. Serral, Dark and maybe Rogue. | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On September 11 2019 15:52 ToKoreaWithLove wrote: Its playoffs so Maru will win easily, Zest will win and none of us will understand how he won. Just few to days to prepare though, so it's fine to question Maru. | ||
Poopi
France12885 Posts
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MarianoSC2
Slovakia1855 Posts
Maru will trash 3:0 | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15961 Posts
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dysenterymd
1237 Posts
But he also should have broken the curse against Neeb, so I guess he loses. | ||
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
On September 11 2019 17:40 dysenterymd wrote: This should be where Rogue finally breaks the curse. But he also should have broken the curse against Neeb, so I guess he loses. everytime i see rogue play zest in the olimoleague, zest stomps lmao | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On September 11 2019 17:40 dysenterymd wrote: This should be where Rogue finally breaks the curse. But he also should have broken the curse against Neeb, so I guess he loses. Neeb was on fire and Rogue vs RO8. Essentially ROgue in the RO8 of Code S plays an enemy who's archon-moding it. It's him vs. Zest & RO8 curse. And I guess that it will be him vs Zest & RO8 curse & Artosis Curse now. But that's just my guess. | ||
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darklycid
3510 Posts
On September 11 2019 17:51 BerserkSword wrote: everytime i see rogue play zest in the olimoleague, zest stomps lmao Online Zest isn't a thing for no reason though  | ||
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sudete
Singapore3054 Posts
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Zaros
United Kingdom3692 Posts
On September 11 2019 18:09 sudete wrote: Ragnarok win would be massive for his blizzcon chances. It's very unlikely but it would be one hell of a win Same with Zest, if Zest wins and Ragnarok loses then Zest goes up to 9th place which is the final qualifying spot as Classic can't go. | ||
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Highrock1
50 Posts
games come a long way :-) | ||
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Plopus
Switzerland112 Posts
On September 11 2019 18:13 Zaros wrote: Same with Zest, if Zest wins and Ragnarok loses then Zest goes up to 9th place which is the final qualifying spot as Classic can't go. Why is classic unable to go to the Blizzcon? | ||
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
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Penev
28481 Posts
probably | ||
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
On September 11 2019 18:35 Penev wrote: woohoo I can watch all of this! probably ayyy das it mane | ||
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Penev
28481 Posts
yeah, no rewinding or watching vods later we're doing it life! | ||
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
On September 11 2019 17:54 darklycid wrote: Online Zest isn't a thing for no reason though yea i know lol i picked rogue | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On September 11 2019 18:31 Plopus wrote: Why is classic unable to go to the Blizzcon? When you're close to the military service you can't leave the country unless it's allowed. They may allow this based on special circumstances, but Blizzcon and WC title in SC2 isn't such special occasion. On September 11 2019 18:34 BerserkSword wrote: how are so many people saying that ragnarok has a chance? Becuase Maru said his hand hurts, he played even more sloppy than his usual group standard is and Serral said Zerg OP. | ||
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Penev
28481 Posts
On September 11 2019 18:39 deacon.frost wrote: When you're close to the military service you can't leave the country unless it's allowed. They may allow this based on special circumstances, but Blizzcon and WC title in SC2 isn't such special occasion. Becuase Maru said his hand hurts, he played even more sloppy than his usual group standard is and Serral said Zerg OP. Wax's choice of titles is unmatched | ||
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Penev
28481 Posts
e: thanks! | ||
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NExt
Australia1651 Posts
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JoeCool
Germany2520 Posts
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
give us some longer games | ||
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Zaros
United Kingdom3692 Posts
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40190 Posts
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Jarree
Finland1004 Posts
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djraphi23
France2262 Posts
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Zaros
United Kingdom3692 Posts
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
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MarianoSC2
Slovakia1855 Posts
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[PkF] Wire
France24202 Posts
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JoeCool
Germany2520 Posts
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40190 Posts
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
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NExt
Australia1651 Posts
On September 11 2019 18:52 lolfail9001 wrote: Round of 8 of GSL, you say? Usually a positive guy but this is hilariously embarassing lol | ||
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darklycid
3510 Posts
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zestzorb
Thailand776 Posts
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djraphi23
France2262 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25341 Posts
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Highrock1
50 Posts
Yikes. | ||
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Highrock1
50 Posts
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JoeCool
Germany2520 Posts
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NExt
Australia1651 Posts
On September 11 2019 18:58 JoeCool wrote: Ouh Artosis, shots fired @MVP and NesTea I lost it at the BitbyBit truer words | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24202 Posts
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darklycid
3510 Posts
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JoeCool
Germany2520 Posts
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Penev
28481 Posts
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40190 Posts
On September 11 2019 19:03 JoeCool wrote: Both of them look like they dont care at all. Zest is like: Oh, cool, i play Ro8gue, easiest Ro4 of my life, just gotta make sure to lose a game so it does not look too painful. Rogue is like: here we go again... | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure. | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
Just play safe and standard, come on!! | ||
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darklycid
3510 Posts
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RatzBarcode
United States98 Posts
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Penev
28481 Posts
On September 11 2019 19:03 JoeCool wrote: Both of them look like they dont care at all. yeah, I'm getting 2016 vibes | ||
Olli
Austria24417 Posts
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darklycid
3510 Posts
Time for Rogue to die to 8 glaiveless adepts? | ||
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Olli
Austria24417 Posts
The highest skill era? What a compliment! | ||
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
where rogue loses to zests funny attacks | ||
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Zaros
United Kingdom3692 Posts
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rednusa
651 Posts
On September 11 2019 19:03 JoeCool wrote: Both of them look like they dont care at all. Rogue & Zest or Tastosis? | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On September 11 2019 19:07 Zaros wrote: Maybe rogue just dies to dts without detection next game Maybe a screen falls on Zest's head and they rush him in a hospital and Rogue wins with a "bye"? | ||
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Penev
28481 Posts
 | ||
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MarianoSC2
Slovakia1855 Posts
On September 11 2019 19:07 Zaros wrote: Maybe rogue just dies to dts without detection next game Well we all know he will die for sure, just hard to guess how. At this point, he can just pull a Naniwa and attack with his drones | ||
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Olli
Austria24417 Posts
On September 11 2019 19:09 deacon.frost wrote: Maybe a screen falls on Zest's head and they rush him in a hospital and Rogue wins with a "bye"? Historically collapsing equipment has actually been beneficial | ||
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darklycid
3510 Posts
On September 11 2019 19:10 Olli wrote: Historically collapsing equipment has actually been beneficial 100% winrate strat? | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On September 11 2019 19:10 Olli wrote: Historically collapsing equipment has actually been beneficial GumiHo is more hard headed! | ||
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MarianoSC2
Slovakia1855 Posts
On September 11 2019 19:10 Olli wrote: Historically collapsing equipment has actually been beneficial Then lets hope it hits Rogue in the head and make him play like a good player that he actually is | ||
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rednusa
651 Posts
On September 11 2019 19:09 deacon.frost wrote: Maybe a screen falls on Zest's head and they rush him in a hospital and Rogue wins with a "bye"? That's a legit strategy. The last time a screen landed on a player's head in a game with Zest, they went on to beat Zest. Zest can beat himself here and Rogue advances to Ro8. | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On September 11 2019 19:11 rednusa wrote: That's a legit strategy. The last time a screen landed on a player's head in a game with Zest, they went on to beat Zest. Zest can beat himself here and Rogue advances to Ro8. Nice | ||
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40190 Posts
On September 11 2019 19:11 rednusa wrote: That's a legit strategy. The last time a screen landed on a player's head in a game with Zest, they went on to beat Zest. Zest can beat himself here and Rogue advances to Ro8. I like the part where Rogue advances to the same stage he is at right now. | ||
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
then no archon drop nice | ||
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rednusa
651 Posts
On September 11 2019 19:15 lolfail9001 wrote: I like the part where Rogue advances to the same stage he is at right now. Groundhog StarCraft II League | ||
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Penev
28481 Posts
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darklycid
3510 Posts
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nojok
France15845 Posts
Banelings everywhere! | ||
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40190 Posts
On September 11 2019 19:22 darklycid wrote: Zest just went afk, didn't he. Yeah, seeing that misrally on probes was very painful. | ||
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25341 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany15961 Posts
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
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dbRic1203
Germany2655 Posts
On September 11 2019 19:22 darklycid wrote: Zest just went afk, didn't he. looked like that..  | ||
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
On September 11 2019 19:23 Wombat_NI wrote: What was Zest even doing that game? idk but im loling irl here | ||
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Phredxor
New Zealand15076 Posts
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nojok
France15845 Posts
On September 11 2019 19:22 darklycid wrote: Zest just went afk, didn't he. It's more like you're late to react to the first phase of the multi harass and then you're late to everything. | ||
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40190 Posts
Zest really gives no fucks. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25341 Posts
I might have a watch of the FPVoDs later but I have a feeling it’ll make it even more confusing. | ||
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Penev
28481 Posts
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SenorChang
Australia4730 Posts
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40190 Posts
Wow. | ||
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Phredxor
New Zealand15076 Posts
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Olli
Austria24417 Posts
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NExt
Australia1651 Posts
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D-light
Finland7364 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
Rogue manages to go over RO8!!! | ||
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MarianoSC2
Slovakia1855 Posts
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rednusa
651 Posts
On September 11 2019 19:27 lolfail9001 wrote: Rogue actually gets into Ro4 Wow. More proof that this is the highest skill era | ||
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Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40190 Posts
On September 11 2019 19:28 MarianoSC2 wrote: Wtf Rogue advanced? What happened? :D A failed cannon Rush. I'll be honest, i am completely floored by this series. Maybe i should just start watching online leagues instead. | ||
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watchlulu
Germany474 Posts
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Phredxor
New Zealand15076 Posts
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On September 11 2019 19:28 Phredxor wrote: On the plus side Jin Air about to get relegated in LCK at least. wat? | ||
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40190 Posts
On September 11 2019 19:29 brickrd wrote: zest actually could have won the engagement in game 4 if he hadn't move commanded templars straight into ravager ling bane, done zero tempest micro, and then clumped his army into a little ball in an open space That's like saying he would have won the series if he actually tried. No shit he would, the issue is that he barely tried! | ||
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darklycid
3510 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
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MarianoSC2
Slovakia1855 Posts
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Phredxor
New Zealand15076 Posts
On September 11 2019 19:29 brickrd wrote: zest actually could have won the engagement in game 4 if he hadn't move commanded templars straight into ravager ling bane, done zero tempest micro, and then clumped his army into a little ball in an open space But that would require him to be competent at PvZ. | ||
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
lol zest just lol | ||
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SamirDuran
Philippines894 Posts
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
On September 11 2019 19:30 lolfail9001 wrote: That's like saying he would have won the series if he actually tried. No shit he would, the issue is that he barely tried! hurr durr pro gamers don't try to win | ||
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Shuffleblade
Sweden1903 Posts
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dbRic1203
Germany2655 Posts
On September 11 2019 19:29 brickrd wrote: zest actually could have won the engagement in game 4 if he hadn't move commanded templars straight into ravager ling bane, done zero tempest micro, and then clumped his army into a little ball in an open space So if Zest played better, he might have won? | ||
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
On September 11 2019 19:31 Shuffleblade wrote: How was Rogue playing these games? Only caught the end of game 3 rogue played like trash compared to how he played against stats but zest played like he was drunk lmao | ||
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
On September 11 2019 19:26 Wombat_NI wrote: I might have a watch of the FPVoDs later but I have a feeling it’ll make it even more confusing. most definitely looking at that game, it woudl seem like zest was just playing like a casual M1 maybe even afk but that cant be right, r-right i really want to see what zest was paying attention to so that he couldnt micro at all | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
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Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
On September 11 2019 19:32 BerserkSword wrote: rogue played like trash compared to how he played against stats but zest played like he was drunk lmao If only Rogue played like vs Stats and Zest like drunk Stats | ||
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MarianoSC2
Slovakia1855 Posts
Actually, nevermind. Zest vs Rogue was always going to be a total shitshow... | ||
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HolydaKing
21254 Posts
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Penev
28481 Posts
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
Can't wait for the teamhouse talk when the JAGW vs JAGW finals takes place. | ||
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NExt
Australia1651 Posts
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Shuffleblade
Sweden1903 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25341 Posts
On September 11 2019 19:35 BerserkSword wrote: most definitely looking at that game, it woudl seem like zest was just playing like a casual M1 maybe even afk but that cant be right, r-right i really want to see what zest was paying attention to so that he couldnt micro at all He caught his reflection in his monitor and went full Jonny Bravo would be my best guess. | ||
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Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
On September 11 2019 19:44 NExt wrote: Is Maru wearing an engagement/wedding ring? What? But he's just a baby!? They grow so fast | ||
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NotSoHappy
445 Posts
On September 11 2019 19:32 BerserkSword wrote: rogue played like trash compared to how he played against stats but zest played like he was drunk lmao perfect description of these games | ||
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kmh
Finland351 Posts
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Zambrah
United States7298 Posts
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fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium4009 Posts
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Poopi
France12885 Posts
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kmh
Finland351 Posts
On September 11 2019 19:47 Nakajin wrote: What? But he's just a baby!? They grow so fast He's 22, right? Either way it's a promise ring, not an engagement ring AFAIK. The 100 day mark is when many couples decide to take the leap and get one. In other words, it's way way more casual. | ||
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40190 Posts
Not when you play like Zest in game 5. | ||
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Poopi
France12885 Posts
Scout for the 2rax and if there is none assume BC build on acropolis | ||
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Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
On September 11 2019 19:51 Poopi wrote: This battlecruiser / big maps meta is annoying. Do zergs really need to bother scouting with fast overlords when it's almost always a BC build? :o Scout for the 2rax and if there is none assume BC build on acropolis But then you don't have time to type: "fuck BC, every game, Terran op" in chat because you have to focus on defending your base the first time you see them | ||
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HolydaKing
21254 Posts
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Olli
Austria24417 Posts
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
extremely impressed by ragnarok | ||
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Zambrah
United States7298 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On September 11 2019 18:34 BerserkSword wrote: how are so many people saying that ragnarok has a chance? Any other questions? Like why's sky blue? (it's purple BTW) | ||
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NExt
Australia1651 Posts
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
On September 11 2019 19:59 deacon.frost wrote: Any other questions? Like why's sky blue? (it's purple BTW) im eating my crow right now LOL | ||
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NExt
Australia1651 Posts
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goody153
44125 Posts
how did ragnarok win game 1 ? | ||
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40190 Posts
On September 11 2019 20:07 goody153 wrote: that Rogue series was pretty fun how did ragnarok win game 1 ? Apparently SCVs do not counter roaches. | ||
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goody153
44125 Posts
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NExt
Australia1651 Posts
On September 11 2019 20:07 goody153 wrote: that Rogue series was pretty fun how did ragnarok win game 1 ? Roach Ravager Corruptor push to beat BC mech it was pre sick. Ragnarok is playing so well | ||
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nojok
France15845 Posts
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fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium4009 Posts
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Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
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NotSoHappy
445 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On September 11 2019 20:11 Nakajin wrote: Last time we had 3 z in the semi final was the Roro-Symbol season. Just saying Serral said Zerg OP, just saying | ||
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NExt
Australia1651 Posts
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40190 Posts
On September 11 2019 20:11 Nakajin wrote: Last time we had 3 z in the semi final was the Roro-Symbol season. Just saying Yeah, but that season does not count, since Soulkey choked and stole from us the ZvZvZvZ semifinals. | ||
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Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
On September 11 2019 20:13 NotSoHappy wrote: last time we had keen level players in gsl top 8 was.. well never. just saying. Well I'd say the last time Keen was in top 8 | ||
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nojok
France15845 Posts
On September 11 2019 20:11 Nakajin wrote: Last time we had 3 z in the semi final was the Roro-Symbol season. Just saying The rise of patchzergs after... nerfs  | ||
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40190 Posts
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Penev
28481 Posts
are nerfzergs the new patchzergs? | ||
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
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NotSoHappy
445 Posts
save your whine for after series | ||
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crnm95
37 Posts
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crnm95
37 Posts
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HolydaKing
21254 Posts
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Poopi
France12885 Posts
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Penev
28481 Posts
On September 11 2019 20:16 NotSoHappy wrote: series didn't end yet and these two are the biggest maps save your whine for after series always consider maybe people are just joking/meming, could make you a bit more happy! | ||
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
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JoeCool
Germany2520 Posts
On September 11 2019 20:14 lolfail9001 wrote: Ah, the classic Ultras into lose. Yeah while I get that this has become a running joke it's kinda sad that ultras have been useless basically since WoL. | ||
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goody153
44125 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
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NotSoHappy
445 Posts
On September 11 2019 20:18 Penev wrote: always consider maybe people are just joking/meming, could make you a bit more happy! No, this is serious. | ||
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40190 Posts
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goody153
44125 Posts
On September 11 2019 20:20 deacon.frost wrote: BLs are out, Maru lost. those BL's melted really fast but the ultra switch is gonna kill him tho | ||
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nojok
France15845 Posts
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
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goody153
44125 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On September 11 2019 20:20 goody153 wrote: those BL's melted really fast but the ultra switch is gonna kill him tho Then Ragnarok went itno Ultras into lose Dude, why? :D | ||
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40190 Posts
On September 11 2019 20:21 goody153 wrote: wait maru won that one ? i don't understand the gg call it seems that maru was running out of gas Ragnarok ran out of resources pretty much, too many wasted trades. | ||
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Die4Ever
United States17676 Posts
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rfoster
United States1005 Posts
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Zambrah
United States7298 Posts
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DBooN
Germany2727 Posts
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Poopi
France12885 Posts
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Zealgoon
China187 Posts
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nojok
France15845 Posts
On September 11 2019 20:21 Noocta wrote: I wonder if buffing Liberator air attack would be good for this matchup. Giving Terran air AoE seems like it would solve a lot of issues. But what would protect zerg from the terran's airball? | ||
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djraphi23
France2262 Posts
On September 11 2019 20:21 goody153 wrote: wait maru won that one ? i don't understand the gg call it seems that maru was running out of gas His last fight was atrocious. He had half of the army supply of Maru, with no bank and not much mining. Good time to throw GG. | ||
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fastr
France901 Posts
On September 11 2019 20:21 Noocta wrote: I wonder if buffing Liberator air attack would be good for this matchup. Giving Terran air AoE seems like it would solve a lot of issues. Liberator air attack was really strong in early LotV, but Blizzard nerfed it to the ground like they usually do with terran | ||
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
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Penev
28481 Posts
On September 11 2019 20:21 Noocta wrote: I wonder if buffing Liberator air attack would be good for this matchup. Giving Terran air AoE seems like it would solve a lot of issues. we had that before, didn't look pretty I'm very biased against liberators though, I hate them and their women and children too | ||
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
On September 11 2019 20:23 nojok wrote: But what would protect zerg from the terran's airball? Fungal and Parasite bomb ? Zerg has good answer to that stuff already, it's just that Terran is kidna stuck using Vikings for this and Vikings are a 2012 unit | ||
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dbRic1203
Germany2655 Posts
Aaand Zerg loses. After that devastating SCV loss in the beginning. So please stop balance whinning. I think the balance right now is pretty good with the new patch. Realy great series so far, I hope they go all the way to game 5. Pretty impressive by Ragnarok so far... | ||
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
terran: wins the game comfortably terran players: hmm... this siege unit sucks... maybe it could do like 20-30 more dps? | ||
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
On September 11 2019 20:24 Penev wrote: we had that before, didn't look pretty I'm very biased against liberators though, I hate them and their women and children too Yeah I wasn't around for that but I can believe it. I still feel like forcing zerg to be more careful about deathballing corruptors / broodlord is how to solve the matchup tho. Right now there isn't a spell or an unit that makes zerg scared to stack all their air units together. | ||
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goody153
44125 Posts
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showstealer1829
Australia3123 Posts
On September 11 2019 20:25 dbRic1203 wrote: I think the balance right now is pretty good with the new patch. I would say you should be a comedian, except comedians are meant to be funny... | ||
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XDEKSDEEXD
622 Posts
On September 11 2019 20:25 dbRic1203 wrote: Zerg OP! Zerg OP! Zerg OP! Aaand Zerg loses. After that devastating SCV loss in the beginning. So please stop balance whinning. I think the balance right now is pretty good with the new patch. Realy great series so far, I hope they go all the way to game 5. Pretty impressive by Ragnarok so far... So you are one of those people who think if a race is OP they should 100% never lose? | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
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Highrock1
50 Posts
On September 11 2019 20:31 showstealer1829 wrote: I would say you should be a comedian, except comedians are meant to be funny... only, you know, last month was the most balanced month ever according to aligulac. Literally the most balanced month in ten years. | ||
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Poopi
France12885 Posts
On September 11 2019 20:25 dbRic1203 wrote: Zerg OP! Zerg OP! Zerg OP! Aaand Zerg loses. After that devastating SCV loss in the beginning. So please stop balance whinning. I think the balance right now is pretty good with the new patch. Realy great series so far, I hope they go all the way to game 5. Pretty impressive by Ragnarok so far... Well it's only RagnaroK against Maru so Maru taking a game off of him doesn't mean everything is fine in TvZ. | ||
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dbRic1203
Germany2655 Posts
On September 11 2019 20:35 Poopi wrote: Well it's only RagnaroK against Maru so Maru taking a game off of him doesn't mean everything is fine in TvZ. Well its 2019 Maru, not 2018 Maru | ||
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Penev
28481 Posts
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
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goody153
44125 Posts
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fastr
France901 Posts
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
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Penev
28481 Posts
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goody153
44125 Posts
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
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goody153
44125 Posts
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XDEKSDEEXD
622 Posts
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Poopi
France12885 Posts
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HolydaKing
21254 Posts
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Die4Ever
United States17676 Posts
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
On September 11 2019 20:45 goody153 wrote: does mass BC beat bl infestor viper ? it seems like it should No you just get neural'ed | ||
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nojok
France15845 Posts
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Zambrah
United States7298 Posts
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goody153
44125 Posts
guess it doesn't matter if you get bl-infestor army against him | ||
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Die4Ever
United States17676 Posts
lol | ||
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Shuffleblade
Sweden1903 Posts
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HolydaKing
21254 Posts
On September 11 2019 20:46 nojok wrote: Never actually fought the BL festor, wp maru. He did in the end, and then Ragnarok realized his infestors were dry and quit. | ||
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SamirDuran
Philippines894 Posts
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NExt
Australia1651 Posts
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40190 Posts
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
maru is a nut | ||
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
On September 11 2019 20:47 lolfail9001 wrote: T's actual lategame deathball are vikings-ghosts btw. Is it a deathball if you never want to fight with it ? | ||
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40190 Posts
On September 11 2019 20:48 Noocta wrote: Is it a deathball if you never want to fight with it ? It is a deathball because you only need a single fight with it to decide a game, like in this game. 1 good EMP and game is over. | ||
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Zambrah
United States7298 Posts
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JoeCool
Germany2520 Posts
On September 11 2019 20:47 goody153 wrote: ok i think Maru is gonna run over Ragnarok It's not like any other outcome was to be expected... | ||
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Die4Ever
United States17676 Posts
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goody153
44125 Posts
ah crap forgot about them (doesn't BC's yamatos outranged them ?) also apparently ghost and just hitting everywhere is the key | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On September 11 2019 20:47 SamirDuran wrote: Wtf. I get chills. This is so unreal Isn't it a little too much? MARY beating Ragnagod in Code S ro8, unreal? | ||
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
On September 11 2019 20:49 Die4Ever wrote: and this game started with failed proxy rax? lol do we need to go back to heart of the swarm and re-learn that failed 2rax is an acceptable terran opening? | ||
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goody153
44125 Posts
On September 11 2019 20:49 JoeCool wrote: It's not like any other outcome was to be expected... Idk Ragnarok looked really good on ro16 and well earlier this series | ||
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SamirDuran
Philippines894 Posts
On September 11 2019 20:49 Die4Ever wrote: and this game started with failed proxy rax? lol Maru is pretty good at that and i dont know how he gets away with it everytime | ||
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
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Poopi
France12885 Posts
On September 11 2019 20:48 lolfail9001 wrote: It is a deathball because you only need a single fight with it to decide a game, like in this game. 1 good EMP and game is over. Well there was a lot of harass / bio killing stuff left and right that allowed a « single fight » so it’s not really a single fight. | ||
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JoeCool
Germany2520 Posts
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crnm95
37 Posts
On September 11 2019 20:49 JoeCool wrote: It's not like any other outcome was to be expected... Maru has never lost a series against RagnaroK! | ||
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25341 Posts
Oh god the two rax, not like this! I want my game 5 damnit | ||
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JoeCool
Germany2520 Posts
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goody153
44125 Posts
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darklycid
3510 Posts
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
On September 11 2019 20:57 goody153 wrote: it was pretty even, he traded stim and cc timing for some lost zerg mining and the game is normal nowI think Maru is still ahead even the failed 2 rax. He was building CC behind the rush | ||
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goody153
44125 Posts
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Poopi
France12885 Posts
On September 11 2019 20:55 Wombat_NI wrote: Ah this is more like it, was flipping between the FPVs that series, really rams home how insane Maru was playing but also how difficult it is on the Zerg’s end to keep up with that pace Oh god the two rax, not like this! I want my game 5 damnit On afreeca you mean? I always get an error on afreeca streams so I can't watch FPVOD :/ | ||
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
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JoeCool
Germany2520 Posts
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Penev
28481 Posts
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darklycid
3510 Posts
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nojok
France15845 Posts
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NExt
Australia1651 Posts
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Penev
28481 Posts
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JoeCool
Germany2520 Posts
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
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DBooN
Germany2727 Posts
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Die4Ever
United States17676 Posts
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Penev
28481 Posts
On September 11 2019 21:06 nojok wrote: Terrans should never kill the ultralisk cavern. can we count this as an ultra into lose? | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
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nojok
France15845 Posts
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25341 Posts
On September 11 2019 21:02 Poopi wrote: On afreeca you mean? I always get an error on afreeca streams so I can't watch FPVOD :/ It’s always been a bit wonky for me too, but the iOS app at least works when I’ve used it. | ||
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Poopi
France12885 Posts
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Zambrah
United States7298 Posts
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MoDiV
United States90 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On September 11 2019 21:09 Poopi wrote: I don't have sound at work, what is Maru saying? I'm not listening either, but Terran weak, Zerg OP, Protoss OP, my ZvT bad. I'm gonna try my best. | ||
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
On September 11 2019 21:09 Poopi wrote: I don't have sound at work, what is Maru saying? He prepped for playing Mech, but Rogue told him to not use it. Apparently Rogue helped a lot. Rogue told him to change his King's Cove strategy. | ||
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NotSoHappy
445 Posts
On September 11 2019 21:10 deacon.frost wrote: I'm not listening either, but Terran weak, Zerg OP, Protoss OP, my ZvT bad. I'm gonna try my best. spot on | ||
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Zambrah
United States7298 Posts
On September 11 2019 21:10 deacon.frost wrote: I'm not listening either, but Terran weak, Zerg OP, Protoss OP, my ZvT bad. I'm gonna try my best. Game confirmed balanced  | ||
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
On September 11 2019 21:09 Poopi wrote: I don't have sound at work, what is Maru saying? maru is praising rogue to high heaven. he said that that rogue helped him a lot especially in advising him to avoid mech then he said that the thunderbird game gave him tons of confidence since infestors lost | ||
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Die4Ever
United States17676 Posts
On September 11 2019 21:11 swarminfestor wrote: 3 JAGW players in the quarterfinal for the first time, right? semifinals | ||
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Penev
28481 Posts
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
Maru v Ragnarok > Dark v TY > Trap v Keen > commercial breaks > ... uh... Zest v Rogue | ||
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yyltyler
23 Posts
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
On September 11 2019 21:13 Noocta wrote: I didn't get to ctach Rogue vs Zest, why was it this bad ? all in fest and then zest played like he was high | ||
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romson87
Poland487 Posts
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
On September 11 2019 21:13 BerserkSword wrote: all in fest and then zest played like he was high Rogue doing more all-ins ? Seems like he's very much liking those recently. | ||
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dbRic1203
Germany2655 Posts
On September 11 2019 21:13 deacon.frost wrote: lol, Tastosis rating of games Maru v Ragnarok > Dark v TY > Trap v Keen > commercial breaks > ... uh... Zest v Rogue pretty accurate | ||
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
Yeah, my bad. | ||
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Penev
28481 Posts
On September 11 2019 21:13 Noocta wrote: I didn't get to ctach Rogue vs Zest, why was it this bad ? they both played uninspired and made a lot of mistakes | ||
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SamirDuran
Philippines894 Posts
On September 11 2019 21:10 deacon.frost wrote: I'm not listening either, but Terran weak, Zerg OP, Protoss OP, my ZvT bad. I'm gonna try my best. He said zerg is strong in late game but its doable. Well how the f is that doable? Should we play like maru? | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany15961 Posts
On September 11 2019 21:10 Noocta wrote: He prepped for playing Mech, but Rogue told him to not use it. Apparently Rogue helped a lot. Rogue told him to change his King's Cove strategy. Another proof that Maru is terrible himself and can only win if his teammates plan every map for him | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25341 Posts
On September 11 2019 21:10 Noocta wrote: He prepped for playing Mech, but Rogue told him to not use it. Apparently Rogue helped a lot. Rogue told him to change his King's Cove strategy. I’m surprised Maru doesn’t play bio 90% of games vZ, he’s so good with it and it really complements his skill set. | ||
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dbRic1203
Germany2655 Posts
On September 11 2019 21:17 Charoisaur wrote: Another proof that Maru is terrible himself and can only win if his teammates plan every map for him Well lets see, what happens when its Wings vs Wings | ||
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
On September 11 2019 21:17 Charoisaur wrote: Another proof that Maru is terrible himself and can only win if his teammates plan every map for him i think it's obvious at this point lmao excels at preparation tournaments disappears at weekenders is decimated by the smartest person on his team, sOs he is greatly helped by the brainpower of his team | ||
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repomaniak
Poland324 Posts
many clips + Show Spoiler + GSL Audience GSL Audience GSL Artosis NA 2nd to last qualifier GSL handsome nerds audience GSL Cheer new zeland / pylon show GSL Artosis bitbybit GSL Tastosis abide by the law GSL Rogue interview GSL Audience GSL Tastosis awesome games played Poorly GSL Tasteless Artosis is not cool GSL Tasteless GOD FIGHT GSL Tasteless clocks GSL Tasteless Viking Ragnarok Joke GSL Maru interview GSL zergterran best race protoss still OP GSL Tasteless little angels inside the game pushing scv GSL memes cheer | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25341 Posts
On September 11 2019 21:16 SamirDuran wrote: He said zerg is strong in late game but its doable. Well how the f is that doable? Should we play like maru? One can but dream. Despite playing monstrously well in the mass nuke game, still feel he could well have lost if he didn’t wipe all the Infestor energy. I wonder if the radius change made a difference or Rag’s Infestors were clumped so even old EMP would have got them all. | ||
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
On September 11 2019 21:23 Wombat_NI wrote: One can but dream. Despite playing monstrously well in the mass nuke game, still feel he could well have lost if he didn’t wipe all the Infestor energy. I wonder if the radius change made a difference or Rag’s Infestors were clumped so even old EMP would have got them all. althought im several drinks deep, from what i saw, it definitely did the new emp is insane | ||
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AgentRabbits
7 Posts
On September 11 2019 21:18 Wombat_NI wrote: I’m surprised Maru doesn’t play bio 90% of games vZ, he’s so good with it and it really complements his skill set. It's weird because he also said mech is bad vs Zerg on the recent JAGW video he was featured in. | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On September 11 2019 21:24 AgentRabbits wrote: It's weird because he also said mech is bad vs Zerg on the recent JAGW video he was featured in. That doesn't mean that bio is better. | ||
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goody153
44125 Posts
On September 11 2019 21:16 SamirDuran wrote: He said zerg is strong in late game but its doable. Well how the f is that doable? Should we play like maru? Just be the best terran player in the world i guess. Or try to win from the midgame all the time. Or perhaps his heavy multiprong aggression is the key to it (well assuming the terran players can execute it good enough) | ||
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Poopi
France12885 Posts
Beating Trap will be hella difficult but Maru has a small shot at making the finals yet again. JAGW final incoming? | ||
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
bio is literally designed to be better bio is the most efficient and versatile comp in the game. making mech alone the same strength would be absurd | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On September 11 2019 21:20 BerserkSword wrote: i think it's obvious at this point lmao excels at preparation tournaments disappears at weekenders is decimated by the smartest person on his team, sOs he is greatly helped by the brainpower of his team OTOH what's wrong with it? He wouldn't be the first who's a great at something mechanical but needs others who will create the strategies. That's why coaches were created | ||
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AgentRabbits
7 Posts
Well he also specifically says bio is better | ||
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
On September 11 2019 21:28 BerserkSword wrote: bio is literally designed to be better bio is the most efficient and versatile comp in the game. making mech alone the same strength would be absurd Yeah sadly I don't think Mech can ever become as glorious as broodwar. Tanks can't be allowed to be that good. | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On September 11 2019 21:37 Noocta wrote: Yeah sadly I don't think Mech can ever become as glorious as broodwar. Tanks can't be allowed to be that good. Not without a proper counter play which doesn't exist at SC2. | ||
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Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
On September 11 2019 21:36 AgentRabbits wrote: Well he also specifically says bio is better Dosen't mean it's good Point is : Zerg is op and I'm way better than every single one of them | ||
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JoeCool
Germany2520 Posts
On September 11 2019 21:27 goody153 wrote: Just be the best terran player in the world i guess. Or try to win from the midgame all the time. Or perhaps his heavy multiprong aggression is the key to it (well assuming the terran players can execute it good enough) ...or players should stop acting like the balance right now has a huge impact on their games. I'm not saying that Serral was wrong when he said that Zerg is strong, one should just remember that this a grandmaster talking about grandmaster-/tournamentlevel. So unless you're GM there are probably other issues in your gameplay that affect your game way more than the "imbalance" of lategame Zerg. Once again, not saying that Z isn't strong but acting like you have to be Maru to be competitive is an overstatement. | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On September 11 2019 22:22 JoeCool wrote: ...or players should stop acting like the balance right now has a huge impact on their games. I'm not saying that Serral was wrong when he said that Zerg is strong, one should just remember that this a grandmaster talking about grandmaster-/tournamentlevel. So unless you're GM there are probably other issues in your gameplay that affect your game way more than the "imbalance" of lategame Zerg. Once again, not saying that Z isn't strong but acting like you have to be Maru to be competitive is an overstatement. Not to mention that Serral was speaking about Zerg playing perfectly; Zerg has the advantage later in the game in his opinion but this doesn't mean that winning is not possible(as Maru himself said today) and it doesn't even mean Zerg is favored in ZvT overall. Zerg's lategame has been recently nerfed, I think Terran has adequate tools to find a composition capable of dealing with BL-Infestors. If this doesn't happen, do not worry. The constant whining has already reached Protoss Spring level, Zerg is getting nerfed for sure next patch(and Protoss buffed again, hopefully). | ||
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SharkStarcraft
Austria2226 Posts
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DSh1
292 Posts
On September 11 2019 21:20 BerserkSword wrote: i think it's obvious at this point lmao excels at preparation tournaments disappears at weekenders is decimated by the smartest person on his team, sOs he is greatly helped by the brainpower of his team Well. That would explain why he was also strong in pro league. Nevertheless. To win multiple championship you still have to have high base skill even if you prepare very well. | ||
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Akio
Finland1838 Posts
Considering past seasons, it should be a TvZ. Potential for being an amazing match. | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9650 Posts
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19239 Posts
On September 11 2019 23:24 DSh1 wrote: Well. That would explain why he was also strong in pro league. Nevertheless. To win multiple championship you still have to have high base skill even if you prepare very well. Maru is very similar to Fantasy in Brood War. Many argue if Oov wasn't there to feed him builds when preparing for his opponents, that he would have never had the success he did. The bottom line is that he has the skill, like Maru, to dominate and that little extra bump regarding build orders is just a small part of both their success. I have often thought about the fairness of having players help each other between games. It sucks that Ragnarok had no one to help advise him. I think if we ban between game conversation, then they would just pretend to go to the bathroom and just have someone like Rogue or SoS pass them strategies between stalls. | ||
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neutralrobot
Australia1025 Posts
On September 11 2019 21:20 BerserkSword wrote: i think it's obvious at this point lmao excels at preparation tournaments disappears at weekenders is decimated by the smartest person on his team, sOs he is greatly helped by the brainpower of his team Maru's history with weekenders isn't totally stellar, but to say that he "disappears" at them is maybe painting with too broad a brush. His IEM finals with Life back in the day was incredible. He won WESG last year and had some other respectable weekender results, though he also bombed out of others pretty hard. You can say he's not consistent with weekenders and that's disappointing, but if he disappears at some of them, he doesn't ALWAYS do so. Also, to say that he's decimated by sOs is a bit of an oversimplification. Maru-sOs in 2018 was a really interesting "rivalry" and Maru came out ahead at several points. He only looked like a clown at Blizzcon, really. No doubt he's helped a lot by his team and I don't mean to say that his performance in prep tournaments has been the same as his performance in weekenders (of course not). But I'm not sure it's as extreme as the surface-level optics make it seem. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
Maru has an incredibly high level of basic skill, that is his biggest strength if anything. This whole "he is good at prep" is a little ridiculous imo, it's usually not like he prepares some really wonky stuff to surprise his opponents, he basically proxy raxed every game vs TY in the finals where prep work would have been the most important (because he fears TY a lot). It's a nice narrative which gets perpetuated due to coincidence more than anything. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
In the final against Classic he had basically no unique builds, he just reacted to whatever Classic was trying to pull. In the TY final he did the same proxies every game which didn't really accomplish much. Jin air mastermind strategy "just outmacro and multitask them to 10 minutes until you win". Maru is lucky he has that advice when other players don't. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On September 12 2019 00:08 BisuDagger wrote: Maru is very similar to Fantasy in Brood War. Many argue if Oov wasn't there to feed him builds when preparing for his opponents, that he would have never had the success he did. What makes you think it's jin air and not Maru himself making the builds though? Even when Maru was on prime he managed to 4-0 Inno with cheesy counter builds. He also usually beats his fellow jin air players in GSL as well. He only loses to them in weekenders were preparation isn't much of a factor. | ||
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HolydaKing
21254 Posts
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On September 12 2019 00:36 The_Red_Viper wrote: This whole argument wouldn't even exist if he did get other opponents in these weekenders. He lost like 4 series to stats/sOs, neither is surprising or an indication of being bad at the format. Stats is just really good, sOs is a teamkill which is always tricky and with sOs in mind even trickier. Maru has an incredibly high level of basic skill, that is his biggest strength if anything. This whole "he is good at prep" is a little ridiculous imo, it's usually not like he prepares some really wonky stuff to surprise his opponents, he basically proxy raxed every game vs TY in the finals where prep work would have been the most important (because he fears TY a lot). It's a nice narrative which gets perpetuated due to coincidence more than anything. Yes, a weird coincidence! A huge coincidence, actually. Can it really be a coincidence? Six starleagues, one weekender. His opponent can't be Stats, can't be sOs, can't be Classic, can't be Rogue...yet Maru beats them every time in Code S. How can it be? | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On September 12 2019 00:40 HolydaKing wrote: If proxys by Maru don't outright kill the opponent, they are not fails. They are still good openings. Being able to transition out into a playable game doesn't mean the proxy didn't fail its objective. It certainly rubs out the idea that Maru is getting build order wins, or even build order advantages most of the time. The idea that Maru only wins due to preparation is just stupid. If he was getting build order wins, or winning with tailored strategies all the time, then sure. But he isn't, he literally just wins by playing twice as good as his opponents. | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On September 12 2019 00:31 neutralrobot wrote: Maru's history with weekenders isn't totally stellar, but to say that he "disappears" at them is maybe painting with too broad a brush. His IEM finals with Life back in the day was incredible. The IEM might have been more on Life being extremely hangover during the series. | ||
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Poopi
France12885 Posts
On September 12 2019 00:44 Xain0n wrote: Yes, a weird coincidence! A huge coincidence, actually. Can it really be a coincidence? Six starleagues, one weekender. His opponent can't be Stats, can't be sOs, can't be Classic, can't be Rogue...yet Maru beats them every time in Code S. How can it be? He participates in very few weekenders so of course he won't win a lot of them. Plus no terran dominated weekenders in LotV anyways afaik? | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On September 12 2019 00:44 Xain0n wrote: Yes, a weird coincidence! A huge coincidence, actually. Can it really be a coincidence? Six starleagues, one weekender. His opponent can't be Stats, can't be sOs, can't be Classic, can't be Rogue...yet Maru beats them every time in Code S. How can it be? That's how probabilities work my dude, if you want to span some grand narrative there go for it, but it's still ridiculous. | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
The other Horsemen in LoTV, for comparison: Byun won BlizzCon and World Cyber Arena in 2016, TY won Katowice and WESG consecutively in 2017 while Inno, in the span of three years, won IEM Gyeonggi, GSL vs The World and WESG(also GPL, but I'm still wondering how can it be considered a Premier on Liquipedia). Also, Sc2 players aren't random events, they have distinct playstyles and certain weaknesses; Maru evidently struggles more with weekenders. It's true that he doesn't especially rely on single builds but he seems to thrive when he has more time to prepare for a specific opponent/race. | ||
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KingofdaHipHop
United States25602 Posts
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yhellothere12
46 Posts
On September 12 2019 01:07 Xain0n wrote: If I counted correctly, Maru participated in 27 "weekenders" during the course of his nine years career, and won one of them. So few, so few... The other Horsemen in LoTV, for comparison: Byun won BlizzCon and World Cyber Arena in 2016, TY won Katowice and WESG consecutively in 2017 while Inno, in the span of three years, won IEM Gyeonggi, GSL vs The World and WESG(also GPL, but I'm still wondering how can it be considered a Premier on Liquipedia). Also, Sc2 players aren't random events, they have distinct playstyles and certain weaknesses; Maru evidently struggles more with weekenders. It's true that he doesn't especially rely on single builds but he seems to thrive when he has more time to prepare for a specific opponent/race. While I mostly agree with your post, I think it's important to note that simply counting the number of 1st places shouldn't be the primary argument used for whether a player is good or bad at a particular format. In this case we'd be saying soo is a mediocre player and rather terrible at GSL. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
Why that is exactly is up for debate, and the grand narrative that he needs prep is rather so-so as far as i can tell. I already gave reasons why. Maru is consistently at the top of the korean ladder as well, that's another thing to consider, ladder play is purely based on what people would consider the base skill level. You asked how it can be that he loses to them at weekenders while he beats them every time in code s (i guess since he won code s), well he played stats and sOs once each in code s for example. That is what i meant with probabilities, your sample size is ridiculously low to make any such statements. But sure go ahead and keep on perpetuating this "maru sucks at weekenders because there is no prep" stuff if you want. Funnily enough he lost to stats in these "weekenders" in the first round each, the round where you could prep. Oh NO! edit: one more thing to consider, because you compare weekend vs starleague success over his whole career while most of the starleague success was recently, it also paints a really flawed picture, especially because you only care about winning. Before he dominated starleagues he won 2 while having other good showings in them, plus having good showings at weekenders here and there as well, like ro4 finishes. You are arguing extremely disingenuously, not that i am surprised! | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On September 12 2019 01:25 The_Red_Viper wrote: Noone is denying that he has less success in weekenders, that statement is obvious. Why that is exactly is up for debate, and the grand narrative that he needs prep is rather so-so as far as i can tell. I already gave reasons why. Maru is consistently at the top of the korean ladder as well, that's another thing to consider, ladder play is purely based on what people would consider the base skill level. You asked how it can be that he loses to them at weekenders while he beats them every time in code s (i guess since he won code s), well he played stats and sOs once each in code s for example. That is what i meant with probabilities, your sample size is ridiculously low to make any such statements. But sure go ahead and keep on perpetuating this "maru sucks at weekenders because there is no prep" stuff if you want. Funnily enough he lost to stats in these "weekenders" in the first round each, the round where you could prep. Oh NO! I never said Maru sucks at weekender because he can't prepare for them, he has collected a fair amount of placements during all these years; It's that he is the most successful player ever in korean starleagues and his accomplishements in weekenders are definitely not up to par. I do not doubt, as well, Maru's ability to play at the highest level just making use of his stellar mechanics(which are in fact his main strength). I am told Maru doesn't care for GSL vs The World and Super Tournament(forfeit your spot if you don't wanna play, JAGW gives you a salary and you are already the highest earning player in Sc2...); in any of case, even if Maru winning or losing against a single player in a certain tournament might be a case, this happens every time with every(challenging) opponent in a precise direction: Maru wins in Code S playoffs and loses in weekenders. It's hard to think a trend doesn't exist. | ||
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xelnaga_empire
627 Posts
On September 12 2019 00:37 Fango wrote: Lol how Maru's initial build orders mostly failed here and he won by just out playing ragnarok in the lategame. Yet people still chalk up his wins to preparation. Most of the time his build orders don't even give him advantage in games. Yeah, that double proxy rax in game 4, if my memory is right, that was scouted by Ragnarok was a build order failure. Maru had to play from behind but he still came out with the win. I would say Maru, Byun, and Life had the top 3 micro in SC2 in their prime. So Maru is definitely up there with the best micro in all of SC2's history. And today, Maru's multitasking was just nuts, especially in game 4 where he was dropping everywhere and also picking up his marines, etc. He just out multitasked Ragnarok. | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On a side note, Inno is now officially out of BlizzCon: a Super Tournament title and Classic's enlistement combined wouldn't save him. | ||
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19239 Posts
On September 12 2019 00:40 Fango wrote: What makes you think it's jin air and not Maru himself making the builds though? Even when Maru was on prime he managed to 4-0 Inno with cheesy counter builds. He also usually beats his fellow jin air players in GSL as well. He only loses to them in weekenders were preparation isn't much of a factor. Purely based of the fact that in his interview he said Rogue was giving him advice build orders between games. This may not have been the case for every series ever, but in this instance it correlates well with Fantasy. | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On September 12 2019 01:25 The_Red_Viper wrote: Noone is denying that he has less success in weekenders, that statement is obvious. Why that is exactly is up for debate, and the grand narrative that he needs prep is rather so-so as far as i can tell. I already gave reasons why. Maru is consistently at the top of the korean ladder as well, that's another thing to consider, ladder play is purely based on what people would consider the base skill level. You asked how it can be that he loses to them at weekenders while he beats them every time in code s (i guess since he won code s), well he played stats and sOs once each in code s for example. That is what i meant with probabilities, your sample size is ridiculously low to make any such statements. But sure go ahead and keep on perpetuating this "maru sucks at weekenders because there is no prep" stuff if you want. Funnily enough he lost to stats in these "weekenders" in the first round each, the round where you could prep. Oh NO! edit: one more thing to consider, because you compare weekend vs starleague success over his whole career while most of the starleague success was recently, it also paints a really flawed picture, especially because you only care about winning. Before he dominated starleagues he won 2 while having other good showings in them, plus having good showings at weekenders here and there as well, like ro4 finishes. You are arguing extremely disingenuously, not that i am surprised! Well, it's your own fault to reply to him But, how about the reason is that it simply hurts to play weekenders? Maru was confirmed now twice(and that's just what my memory can recall) with wrist/arm issues. It may simple be that by the end of a weekender Maru's health is broken and he has to slow down. He had several high placings in the career and he fails(unless he bombs out right away) in RO4/8, which could point to that. He wouldn't be the first to do that. The only difference is that he accepts the invites to them even though he probably doesn't want to show the best of Maru. This would explain also why he shows to groups and plays worse - groups can be pretty long. | ||
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MarianoSC2
Slovakia1855 Posts
The whole Maru debate... I think its ridiculous to think that Maru is only good when he can prepare, when preparation seems to be his biggest weakness his entire career. Just look at how Maru wins or loses his matches. If he wins, he does not do so with a good strategic build. He was most famous for destroying Toss without Vikings in HOTS (something which was unthinkable for other players to even try). He did stupid mine drop builds against Phoenix and was successful with them. "Failed proxy rax" into win are his trademark at this point. I am sure there are other examples, but the point is, Marus biggest weakness is his "game intelligence" and strategic preparation. It has always been this way. Its his godlike execution and insane skill that often time win him a game even though he is behind after opening, or even though the meta is not favorable to Terran (remember Maru was often times the only Terran who advanced far in tournies when others struggled). On the other hand if Maru loses, he looks like a total scrub. He fails on all fronts and even his raw skill cant save him there. This is just speculation on my part, but it looks like he just dislikes travel and does not have the mentality and tenacity to be successful on weekenders. Today during Maru interview, he mentioned that Rogue helped him with strats. Its not surprising at all, as I said above Maru was always weaker in that. But we cant just blame it on preparation. If you dont have good enough game sense and outright choose bad strats against your next opponent, it does not matter how much you prepare you will still be at a disadvantage. | ||
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romson87
Poland487 Posts
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Die4Ever
United States17676 Posts
On September 12 2019 00:37 Fango wrote: Lol how Maru's initial build orders mostly failed here and he won by just out playing ragnarok in the lategame. Yet people still chalk up his wins to preparation. Most of the time his build orders don't even give him advantage in games. In the final against Classic he had basically no unique builds, he just reacted to whatever Classic was trying to pull. In the TY final he did the same proxies every game which didn't really accomplish much. Jin air mastermind strategy "just outmacro and multitask them to 10 minutes until you win". Maru is lucky he has that advice when other players don't. 9000 IQ advice = "just play like Maru" | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25341 Posts
On September 12 2019 00:37 Fango wrote: Lol how Maru's initial build orders mostly failed here and he won by just out playing ragnarok in the lategame. Yet people still chalk up his wins to preparation. Most of the time his build orders don't even give him advantage in games. In the final against Classic he had basically no unique builds, he just reacted to whatever Classic was trying to pull. In the TY final he did the same proxies every game which didn't really accomplish much. Jin air mastermind strategy "just outmacro and multitask them to 10 minutes until you win". Maru is lucky he has that advice when other players don't. Hence why Maru confuses me, it appears that is the vague plan in some of his best games, but such an approach of ‘just outplay your opponent’ should prosper in weekenders more so than in a prep format, but he generally inverts that. Perhaps it’s one of life’s great unsolvable mysteries. | ||
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terribleplayer1
95 Posts
I don't recall it being this bad even when Protoss was 7/8 and 5/8 of GSL ro8. | ||
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19239 Posts
On September 12 2019 04:46 terribleplayer1 wrote: Did tasteless and artosis ever balance whine so much like they're doing now? They do it like a few times per game with Zerg, even though the great majority of the time we don't even hit broodlord/infestor. I don't recall it being this bad even when Protoss was 7/8 and 5/8 of GSL ro8. Some of the previous days casted were extremely long because of late game ZvT. They even had a record breaking 5 hour cast where they couldn't take the train home since it was closed by then. I think that is reason enough for anyone to burn out quickly on the matchup. Plus, they aren't complaining about the entire matchup, but simply having Broodlord/IF fatigue. Even if Zerg loses, it's behind a 30 minute crawl. I honestly feel bad for both races. Terran has to try a hundred different ways to break Zerg and Zerg players are stuck playing 30 minutes of intense baby sitting because it gives them the best chance to win. Zergs definitely have the highest potential power in a game right now, but it's extremely demanding of the player. | ||
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Slydie
1919 Posts
On September 12 2019 03:01 MarianoSC2 wrote: Yayy, Rogue broke the curse. And it took drunk Zest to do that :D Nice ! Very happy with results today, and the Maru vs Ragna games were even really good to watch. The whole Maru debate... I think its ridiculous to think that Maru is only good when he can prepare, when preparation seems to be his biggest weakness his entire career. Just look at how Maru wins or loses his matches. If he wins, he does not do so with a good strategic build. He was most famous for destroying Toss without Vikings in HOTS (something which was unthinkable for other players to even try). He did stupid mine drop builds against Phoenix and was successful with them. "Failed proxy rax" into win are his trademark at this point. I am sure there are other examples, but the point is, Marus biggest weakness is his "game intelligence" and strategic preparation. It has always been this way. Its his godlike execution and insane skill that often time win him a game even though he is behind after opening, or even though the meta is not favorable to Terran (remember Maru was often times the only Terran who advanced far in tournies when others struggled). On the other hand if Maru loses, he looks like a total scrub. He fails on all fronts and even his raw skill cant save him there. This is just speculation on my part, but it looks like he just dislikes travel and does not have the mentality and tenacity to be successful on weekenders. Today during Maru interview, he mentioned that Rogue helped him with strats. Its not surprising at all, as I said above Maru was always weaker in that. But we cant just blame it on preparation. If you dont have good enough game sense and outright choose bad strats against your next opponent, it does not matter how much you prepare you will still be at a disadvantage. Hmm, there are other parts of "preparation" than an opening buildorder. How to play the map, which units to make, how to drop, how to push and where to push, countering weaknesses and tendencies of your opponent throughout the game etc. I agree that how he opens is pretty much irrelevant for the game result but he opens in many different ways and forces his opponents to prepare for them all to not crumble early. | ||
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
On September 12 2019 04:46 terribleplayer1 wrote: Did tasteless and artosis ever balance whine so much like they're doing now? They do it like a few times per game with Zerg, even though the great majority of the time we don't even hit broodlord/infestor. I don't recall it being this bad even when Protoss was 7/8 and 5/8 of GSL ro8. they said that terrans are having a hard time with BL infestor (true), and they said that BL infestor is less fun to watch than other compositions (opinion, and most people seem to agree) i didn't hear any "balance whine," i think experienced commentators are allowed to express opinions on the metagame, and i think maybe you're looking too hard to get yourself triggered over balance chat | ||
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KobeSteak
39 Posts
On September 12 2019 00:44 Xain0n wrote: Yes, a weird coincidence! A huge coincidence, actually. Can it really be a coincidence? Six starleagues, one weekender. His opponent can't be Stats, can't be sOs, can't be Classic, can't be Rogue...yet Maru beats them every time in Code S. How can it be? Cause you know. No one really tries or take Code S seriously, they just don't care. Only Maru cares =) | ||
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tskarzyn
United States516 Posts
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evanreyes94
Finland42 Posts
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Argonauta
Spain4948 Posts
On September 12 2019 15:29 evanreyes94 wrote: Maru > Serral. He played like a god versus Ragnarok and dismantled him late game. If he can beat Ragnarok, he can definitely beat Serral no problem That we will never known because Serral refuses to participate in GSL | ||
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Harris1st
Germany6929 Posts
EDIT: On September 12 2019 15:29 evanreyes94 wrote: Maru > Serral. He played like a god versus Ragnarok and dismantled him late game. If he can beat Ragnarok, he can definitely beat Serral no problem lol, you are funny mate | ||
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Poopi
France12885 Posts
On September 12 2019 15:29 evanreyes94 wrote: Maru > Serral. He played like a god versus Ragnarok and dismantled him late game. If he can beat Ragnarok, he can definitely beat Serral no problem Serral is a whole other beast than RagnaroK. On this patch Maru is the terran with the most chances to beat Serral but it's far from easy, TvZ is super tough. TY is screwed for BlizzCon unless he has a miraculous run at Super Tournament, right? | ||
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Neemi
Netherlands656 Posts
On September 12 2019 18:19 Poopi wrote: Serral is a whole other beast than RagnaroK. On this patch Maru is the terran with the most chances to beat Serral but it's far from easy, TvZ is super tough. TY is screwed for BlizzCon unless he has a miraculous run at Super Tournament, right? Assuming Classic drops out, Rogue should quality for ST2, TY should make it to exactly the Ro4 and Dear should not qualify at all so both TY and Dear have exactly 3725 points at #8 and #9, so we probably get some hype bo5 to determine who gets the final seed like Naniwa won his back in 2013. But yeah, the only way for TY to be at Blizzcon guaranteed without relying on anyone else is to win ST2. He needs to make up 675 points to Dear, 1100 points to Stats, 1125 to herO, and 625 points to Rogue who's still in the GSL, while currently being #10. It's growing unlikely. Still the best chance for Terrans, unless Gumiho out of nowhere. | ||
Shellshock
United States97276 Posts
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Lexender
Mexico2647 Posts
On September 12 2019 02:14 deacon.frost wrote: B Maru was confirmed now twice(and that's just what my memory can recall) with wrist/arm issues. It may simple be that by the end of a weekender Maru's health is broken and he has to slow down. Funny enough he has mentioned before he uses orthopedic wrist bands for that and if you look close enough before the matches, when he is adjusting his normal sport wristbands that he uses you can see he has a white wristband below that has more of an orthopedic look. | ||
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seemsgood
5527 Posts
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IshinShishi
Japan6156 Posts
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evanreyes94
Finland42 Posts
On September 12 2019 18:19 Poopi wrote: Serral is a whole other beast than RagnaroK. On this patch Maru is the terran with the most chances to beat Serral but it's far from easy, TvZ is super tough. TY is screwed for BlizzCon unless he has a miraculous run at Super Tournament, right? What do you mean by "on this patch"? Maru is anything but a patch Terran. | ||
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Harris1st
Germany6929 Posts
On September 13 2019 13:34 evanreyes94 wrote: What do you mean by "on this patch"? Maru is anything but a patch Terran. Pretty sure he meant is as an equivalent for the period of time this patch has, than the actual changes the patch brought. Like 2/3 patches ago Inno was the best Terran. Catch my drift? | ||
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Poopi
France12885 Posts
On September 13 2019 13:34 evanreyes94 wrote: What do you mean by "on this patch"? Maru is anything but a patch Terran. On some other patches I'd see TY/INno/Maru capable of beating Serral (with Cure/Gumiho able to with a bit more luck) but this one seems really tough so only Maru seems to have a shot at it. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25341 Posts
On September 13 2019 12:56 IshinShishi wrote: I think Maru is for sure more gifted mechanically than Serral, but he falls short in general strategy/tactics, I believe that Maru wins despite his choice of strats/moves, he can get surrounded , baited, fall into a trap and still win, sometimes it feels like I am watching a dude that brings a knife to a gun fight and somehow cuts everyone down. I think his moves are pretty smart, at least vs Rag he wasn’t doing silly things but Maru in top gear is playing super efficient, high risk, often low reward moves constantly and grinding people down. He was always picking up and saving marines right on time, not losing medivacs and not making big positional blunders with his armies. I think the main problem with his style is it’s really not a style you can execute well if you’re having a bad day at the office. But I think it’s a smart style if you’re that mechanically strong use your advantages as part of that style. Watching Maru reminds me of Oberyn fighting the Mountain. The gameplan is good, arguably only he can execute said gameplan, but if you fuck up at all you can still die. | ||
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Argonauta
Spain4948 Posts
On September 13 2019 12:56 IshinShishi wrote: I think Maru is for sure more gifted mechanically than Serral, but he falls short in general strategy/tactics, I believe that Maru wins despite his choice of strats/moves, he can get surrounded , baited, fall into a trap and still win, sometimes it feels like I am watching a dude that brings a knife to a gun fight and somehow cuts everyone down. | ||
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tskarzyn
United States516 Posts
On September 13 2019 20:49 Wombat_NI wrote: I think his moves are pretty smart, at least vs Rag he wasn’t doing silly things but Maru in top gear is playing super efficient, high risk, often low reward moves constantly and grinding people down. He was always picking up and saving marines right on time, not losing medivacs and not making big positional blunders with his armies. I think the main problem with his style is it’s really not a style you can execute well if you’re having a bad day at the office. But I think it’s a smart style if you’re that mechanically strong use your advantages as part of that style. Watching Maru reminds me of Oberyn fighting the Mountain. The gameplan is good, arguably only he can execute said gameplan, but if you fuck up at all you can still die. Love the reference lol, going to think of him as the oberyn of sc2 from now on | ||
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necrosexy
451 Posts
On September 13 2019 12:56 IshinShishi wrote: I think Maru is for sure more gifted mechanically than Serral, but he falls short in general strategy/tactics, I believe that Maru wins despite his choice of strats/moves, he can get surrounded , baited, fall into a trap and still win, sometimes it feels like I am watching a dude that brings a knife to a gun fight and somehow cuts everyone down. you're describing Maru of years past the reason Maru has ascended to deliverance status is because he has matured strategically and not leveraging so heavily on his micro | ||
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