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Show nested quote +On March 02 2019 02:03 Vindicare605 wrote:On March 02 2019 02:01 Xain0n wrote:On March 02 2019 01:57 Vindicare605 wrote:On March 02 2019 01:54 RaFox17 wrote:On March 02 2019 01:53 Vindicare605 wrote:On March 02 2019 01:44 Bagration wrote:On March 02 2019 01:42 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:The streak Innovation stopped: ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/nyTsZhC.jpg) If it walks like a Bonjwa and sounds like a Bonjwa... Relax. The vast majority of his wins have been vs a foreigner scene that has been regionlocked. I don't care how many wins he has, regionlocked foreigner kills do not count. Luckily he has been killing koreans left and right  Indeed he has, which just makes the first part of that point even stronger. No one would EVER be calling out the B word if it was just his Korean kill streak that was being considered, after all Maru's kill streak last year was far more impressive. People are only caring about the streak because of how long it was and it was only as long as it was because he was protected from his best competitors for the majority of the year. Don't get me wrong I am a huge fan of Serral, but his legacy has a MASSIVE asterisk next to it as long as WCS is regionlocked and he refuses to compete in GSL. As long as both of those things are true, I will NEVER call him a bonjwa. No way on earth Maru's kill streak was better, Serral's win streak korean was bigger and more impressive even considering koreans only. IIRC it was 16-0 before today which makes it 20-0 before losing, compared to Maru's 16-1. Think whatever you like, Serral still advanced first in the so-called group of Death today. The unusual thing is usually not losing series, not the opposite. People won tournaments in the past by advancing third in their groups and now a single 1-2 causes all this fuss? I dont give a single shit about the fact that Innovation beat Serral today. In fact I'm here arguing that Serral's streak is blown completely out of proportion because a majority of it was regionlocked. We've seen tremendous kill streaks throughout SC2's history. Serral's isn't special, it's only special because he's a foreigner, and when you start taking those special considerations into perspective there are other factors like regionlocking that need to be considered also. Also, 4 straight GSL championships is WAY more impressive than anything Serral has done so far. That is a fact. 3 straight GSL championships, not 4
I copy-pasted my comment just to be completely clear:
In a year where there are only 3 GSL's , you say that Maru won 4 GSL championships?
BUDDY get your fuking facts right before putting the words 'THAT IS A FACT', cuz it's kind of hard to take you seriously when you say 'that is a fact' AFTER getting your facts wrong.
Maru is out of the tourney (lost to Leenock, Trap and Neeb), Serral is still in. End of Argument.
Maru is just not performing to a level that is comparable to Serral's, now THAT is a fact.
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On March 02 2019 02:47 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2019 02:40 Elentos wrote:On March 02 2019 02:39 travis wrote:On March 02 2019 02:38 Nakajin wrote:On March 02 2019 02:37 fLyiNgDroNe wrote:On March 02 2019 02:35 deacon.frost wrote:On March 02 2019 02:34 Pandain wrote:On March 02 2019 02:32 Vindicare605 wrote:On March 02 2019 02:28 Pandain wrote:On March 02 2019 02:26 Vindicare605 wrote:
[quote]
No we cant. Serral will have won THREE global events in his entire career. That is nowhere near bonjwa worthy.
Think about that for perspective. As dominant as Serral has been he he was only won 3 tournaments that Koreans have been allowed to participate in. It's disgraceful to our scene that someone that is widely considered one of the best in the world is still stomping all over a regionlocked scene while also declining to participate in the top league in the world.
This just doesn't happen in other sports. Luka Doncic is one of the best Euroleague Players that the league has ever scene and he only started playing in the NBA this year but at least he went over and started playing in it.
You can't be the best and achieve the title of the best when you don't compete against the best on a regular basis. I dont care what sport you're playing.
He didn't just "win." He absolutely destroyed Blizzcon. Outside of the Finals, he absolutely destroyed GSL vs the World. And he just advanced first outside of the group of death. If he shows the same level of play as previous tournaments, it's not simply "winning." It's winning the three most recent biggest international tournaments over the course of 6 months. He destroyed that tournament because his main competitor proxied his way into a 3-0 loss to sOs. He won that entire tournament without beating a single Terran. Think about that? I don't WANT to make these kinds of excuses for Serral. He is legitimately an awesome player, but they are so glaring that only the most rabid delusional fanboy can ignore them. If your argument is that Serral only "destroyed" because another player lost before, your argument is really weak. I could easily say the same for GSL, saying Maru only won because his main competitor was in Finland. Yeah, Serral fanboys use that argument often, but then again - it's easier for Serral to play in GSL than for Maru to join WCS. Explain to me, how its easier. Really. Take months/years having a visa (ok sorry can't stay out of it) okay but for GSL you have to live there for months.. You have to live there for at most 3 months. TRUE and Ragnarok's visa processes went over 9 months. I don't think you guys get the point. You think it's easy for most people to leave their family and move to a foreign country where they don't speak the language for months at a time? As opposed to... flying to a tournament for a weekend or a week?
he didn't say it's easy for Serral. But it's much easier for him than it would be for a korean
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On March 02 2019 02:48 dysenterymd wrote:
The definitive level of Serral hype that is rational:
(1) Serral is the best foreigner of all time
(2) Serral is arguably the best player in the world right now
(3) Serral needs a lot more wins to be a contender for GOAT
(1) Serral is the best foreigner of all time
(2) Soo is the kongest king of kong ever
(3) Serral needs a lot more wins to be a contender for GOAT
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On March 02 2019 02:22 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2019 02:17 RaFox17 wrote:On March 02 2019 02:11 Vindicare605 wrote:On March 02 2019 02:09 starkiller123 wrote:On March 02 2019 02:06 RaFox17 wrote:On March 02 2019 02:03 Vindicare605 wrote:On March 02 2019 02:01 Xain0n wrote:On March 02 2019 01:57 Vindicare605 wrote:On March 02 2019 01:54 RaFox17 wrote:On March 02 2019 01:53 Vindicare605 wrote:
[quote]
Relax. The vast majority of his wins have been vs a foreigner scene that has been regionlocked.
I don't care how many wins he has, regionlocked foreigner kills do not count. Luckily he has been killing koreans left and right Indeed he has, which just makes the first part of that point even stronger. No one would EVER be calling out the B word if it was just his Korean kill streak that was being considered, after all Maru's kill streak last year was far more impressive. People are only caring about the streak because of how long it was and it was only as long as it was because he was protected from his best competitors for the majority of the year. Don't get me wrong I am a huge fan of Serral, but his legacy has a MASSIVE asterisk next to it as long as WCS is regionlocked and he refuses to compete in GSL. As long as both of those things are true, I will NEVER call him a bonjwa. No way on earth Maru's kill streak was better, Serral's win streak korean was bigger and more impressive even considering koreans only. IIRC it was 16-0 before today which makes it 20-0 before losing, compared to Maru's 16-1. Think whatever you like, Serral still advanced first in the so-called group of Death today. The unusual thing is usually not losing series, not the opposite. People won tournaments in the past by advancing third in their groups and now a single 1-2 causes all this fuss? I dont give a single shit about the fact that Innovation beat Serral today. In fact I'm here arguing that Serral's streak is blown completely out of proportion because a majority of it was regionlocked. We've seen tremendous kill streaks throughout SC2's history. Serral's isn't special, it's only special because he's a foreigner, and when you start taking those special considerations into perspective there are other factors like regionlocking that need to be considered also. Also, 4 straight GSL championships is WAY more impressive than anything Serral has done so far. That is a fact. Just want to point out that that is a subjective opinion. Winning GSL is impressive but the current format also gives the title holder a free pass to the quarterfinals. this format has been in place for years and yet no one else has been able to sweep a year of GSL with the same advantage Thank you! not even Mvp was ever able to sweep an entire year's worth of seasons. No one ever has. What Maru did last year was unprecedented in SC2 and he did it at the highest level in a tournament that wasn't locked to anyone. Serral can't claim that. He's a super skilled player whose legacy has been inflated thanks to the dumb system that WCS is using. I hate it, and I will not shut up about it until it changes. There is no way to say objectively which one had more impressive year. I think Serral deserved the player of the year award because he won GSL vs. the world and Blizzcon. Also using an argument that depends on a person not being able to imagine something is quite questionable  Let's not mince words here. Serral won the "player of the year award" (who even gave that site the right to decide anything) because he was the first non-Korean to win a top tier tournament in a game that has been dominated by Koreans over the last 20 years. He won because of his ethnic origin. If he was a Korean player that award would have gone to a different player playing a different game. On one hand, I get that and I can even appreciate it. On the other hand, Blizzard has been manipulating the system in their game to make it easier and easier for this result to happen. I'm not OK with that. It diminishes the accomplishments of top tier foreigners like Stephano and it inflates the results of people that are legitimately awesome like Serral. I want this shit fair, and I want Serral to win fair and square. I want more tournaments like IEM and fewer like WCS and Blizzcon.
You are clueless if you think Serral was crowned best player in the world only because he is not korean; I would actually say it's more impressive as people here value Code S so immensely and he didn't get to play them.
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100% Uthermal will proxy rax at some point.
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On March 02 2019 02:47 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2019 02:40 Elentos wrote:On March 02 2019 02:39 travis wrote:On March 02 2019 02:38 Nakajin wrote:On March 02 2019 02:37 fLyiNgDroNe wrote:On March 02 2019 02:35 deacon.frost wrote:On March 02 2019 02:34 Pandain wrote:On March 02 2019 02:32 Vindicare605 wrote:On March 02 2019 02:28 Pandain wrote:On March 02 2019 02:26 Vindicare605 wrote:
[quote]
No we cant. Serral will have won THREE global events in his entire career. That is nowhere near bonjwa worthy.
Think about that for perspective. As dominant as Serral has been he he was only won 3 tournaments that Koreans have been allowed to participate in. It's disgraceful to our scene that someone that is widely considered one of the best in the world is still stomping all over a regionlocked scene while also declining to participate in the top league in the world.
This just doesn't happen in other sports. Luka Doncic is one of the best Euroleague Players that the league has ever scene and he only started playing in the NBA this year but at least he went over and started playing in it.
You can't be the best and achieve the title of the best when you don't compete against the best on a regular basis. I dont care what sport you're playing.
He didn't just "win." He absolutely destroyed Blizzcon. Outside of the Finals, he absolutely destroyed GSL vs the World. And he just advanced first outside of the group of death. If he shows the same level of play as previous tournaments, it's not simply "winning." It's winning the three most recent biggest international tournaments over the course of 6 months. He destroyed that tournament because his main competitor proxied his way into a 3-0 loss to sOs. He won that entire tournament without beating a single Terran. Think about that? I don't WANT to make these kinds of excuses for Serral. He is legitimately an awesome player, but they are so glaring that only the most rabid delusional fanboy can ignore them. If your argument is that Serral only "destroyed" because another player lost before, your argument is really weak. I could easily say the same for GSL, saying Maru only won because his main competitor was in Finland. Yeah, Serral fanboys use that argument often, but then again - it's easier for Serral to play in GSL than for Maru to join WCS. Explain to me, how its easier. Really. Take months/years having a visa (ok sorry can't stay out of it) okay but for GSL you have to live there for months.. You have to live there for at most 3 months. TRUE and Ragnarok's visa processes went over 9 months. I don't think you guys get the point. You think it's easy for most people to leave their family and move to a foreign country where they don't speak the language for months at a time? As opposed to... flying to a tournament for a weekend or a week?
And yet pro athletes do it every year.
If Blizzard really cared about making their game actually as competitive as it should be, they would make this happen, they would offer Serral enough to make it happen.
At this point Serral is guaranteed a massive check from Blizzard every year anyway, why not make it official and get him to play where he's actually going to be challenged because lord knows that isn't gonna happen in WCS.
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surprised Dear won that game, I wasn't watching closely but it looked like soO had the advantage
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On March 02 2019 02:48 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2019 02:46 deacon.frost wrote:On March 02 2019 02:44 Xain0n wrote:On March 02 2019 02:17 Poopi wrote:On March 02 2019 02:15 Xain0n wrote:On March 02 2019 02:10 renaissanceMAN wrote:On March 02 2019 02:08 Poopi wrote:On March 02 2019 02:03 Vindicare605 wrote:On March 02 2019 02:01 Xain0n wrote:On March 02 2019 01:57 Vindicare605 wrote:
[quote]
Indeed he has, which just makes the first part of that point even stronger.
No one would EVER be calling out the B word if it was just his Korean kill streak that was being considered, after all Maru's kill streak last year was far more impressive.
People are only caring about the streak because of how long it was and it was only as long as it was because he was protected from his best competitors for the majority of the year.
Don't get me wrong I am a huge fan of Serral, but his legacy has a MASSIVE asterisk next to it as long as WCS is regionlocked and he refuses to compete in GSL. As long as both of those things are true, I will NEVER call him a bonjwa. No way on earth Maru's kill streak was better, Serral's win streak korean was bigger and more impressive even considering koreans only. IIRC it was 16-0 before today which makes it 20-0 before losing, compared to Maru's 16-1. Think whatever you like, Serral still advanced first in the so-called group of Death today. The unusual thing is usually not losing series, not the opposite. People won tournaments in the past by advancing third in their groups and now a single 1-2 causes all this fuss? I dont give a single shit about the fact that Innovation beat Serral today. In fact I'm here arguing that Serral's streak is blown completely out of proportion because a majority of it was regionlocked. We've seen tremendous kill streaks throughout SC2's history. Serral's isn't special, it's only special because he's a foreigner, and when you start taking those special considerations into perspective there are other factors like regionlocking that need to be considered also. Also, 4 straight GSL championships is WAY more impressive than anything Serral has done so far. That is a fact. Maru "only" won 3 straight. But indeed it's more impressive, I didn't think it was possible. I knew however that winning GSL vs the world and BlizzCon was possible. Or winning 4 WCS In a row, Neeb almost did it. this ^ also anyone still laughing at the stupid guy who got banned for being a chode to scarlett? You thought it was possible for a Starcraft player to never drop one series and to win every tournament he entered during the span of more than ten month? Maru has been around for nine years, that fourth is OSL that he definitely didn't win last year. But what would have happened if he entered GSL during these ten month?  that's why 10 months doesn't mean as much as you think it means With his GSL vs the World or Blizzcon's level, he would have won it. His streak would have probably been less impressive tho Serral has issues with Terrans. He wouldn't have won Code S if he had met a good Terran. He lost a bo3 vs a Terran today and another one a year ago, we don't know for the 12 month in-between really. Serrals is unusually consistent but usually match up form change a lot during a year
Well we can't tell for sure because we don't have data, do we? I wonder why we don't have the data of him playing good Terrans... maybe some foreigners need to start playing Terran instead of all of them playing Z or P
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Canada8989 Posts
You know guys I think if we just do one or two more pages of this we will all arrive at the same conclusion
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On March 02 2019 02:47 Tempest wrote:
Serral has also stated that he doesn't feel like its fair that Koreans cant participate in WCS but foreigners can compete in GSL, so he probably wont ever do code S just on principle.
A man of values AND talent.
btw serral best player in the world and is bonjwa don't @me
This is a great bait
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On March 02 2019 02:33 dysenterymd wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2019 02:29 Vindicare605 wrote:On March 02 2019 02:27 dysenterymd wrote:
The only people who over hype Serral are the people who call him a bonjwa. Pretty much any other level of praise is justified. BTW Serral is the favorite to win IEM at this point, and if/when he does I will lap up all the tears.
If, over the next two years, Serral wins another four tournaments like GSL vs the world/Blizzcon/IEM or plays in/wins a Code S we can start discussing the B-word.
If Serral wins a Code S I will take back every negative thing I have ever said in this thread. The fact he hasn't even TRIED to qualify yet is one of the main things that bothers me right now. I too think that the case for Serral would be much stronger if he competed in a Code S. But I also don't think the fact he hasn't tried should be held against him -- what he's doing right now is working very well for him, and moving to South Korea to play in GSL would be a massive change to the way he practices. This is why I think Serral's nationality is at least somewhat relevant to discussing how good he is as a player (or how talented/historic he is.) When it comes to prize money, the current system disproportionately rewards non-koreans financially. But due to inter server lag and the lack of good EU Terrans, I think Koreans do still have a large structural advantage when it comes to reaching the absolute highest levels of play. (FWIW, the same reasoning could be used to more highly value Polt's achievements while he lived in the USA.)
Bold:
I don't know how this argument can be made when the prize pool is rough split 50/50 between korea and WCS and the fact that there are WAY more foreigners than koreans
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On March 02 2019 02:48 dysenterymd wrote:
The definitive level of Serral hype that is rational:
(1) Serral is the best foreigner of all time
(2) Serral is arguably the best player in the world right now
(3) Serral needs a lot more wins to be a contender for GOAT
Oh good, people are now arbitrating hype and claiming to be rational.
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If Serral wins this tournament I'll make a "Is Serral a Bonjwa" thread to save LR threads from these discussions.
On March 02 2019 02:50 Nakajin wrote:
You know guys I think if we just do one or two more pages of this we will all arrive at the same conclusion
lollllllllllllll best post of the thread
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On March 02 2019 02:40 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2019 02:39 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:On March 02 2019 02:23 nojok wrote:On March 02 2019 02:22 Vindicare605 wrote:On March 02 2019 02:17 RaFox17 wrote:On March 02 2019 02:11 Vindicare605 wrote:On March 02 2019 02:09 starkiller123 wrote:On March 02 2019 02:06 RaFox17 wrote:On March 02 2019 02:03 Vindicare605 wrote:On March 02 2019 02:01 Xain0n wrote:
[quote]
No way on earth Maru's kill streak was better, Serral's win streak korean was bigger and more impressive even considering koreans only. IIRC it was 16-0 before today which makes it 20-0 before losing, compared to Maru's 16-1.
Think whatever you like, Serral still advanced first in the so-called group of Death today.
The unusual thing is usually not losing series, not the opposite. People won tournaments in the past by advancing third in their groups and now a single 1-2 causes all this fuss?
I dont give a single shit about the fact that Innovation beat Serral today. In fact I'm here arguing that Serral's streak is blown completely out of proportion because a majority of it was regionlocked. We've seen tremendous kill streaks throughout SC2's history. Serral's isn't special, it's only special because he's a foreigner, and when you start taking those special considerations into perspective there are other factors like regionlocking that need to be considered also. Also, 4 straight GSL championships is WAY more impressive than anything Serral has done so far. That is a fact. Just want to point out that that is a subjective opinion. Winning GSL is impressive but the current format also gives the title holder a free pass to the quarterfinals. this format has been in place for years and yet no one else has been able to sweep a year of GSL with the same advantage Thank you! not even Mvp was ever able to sweep an entire year's worth of seasons. No one ever has. What Maru did last year was unprecedented in SC2 and he did it at the highest level in a tournament that wasn't locked to anyone. Serral can't claim that. He's a super skilled player whose legacy has been inflated thanks to the dumb system that WCS is using. I hate it, and I will not shut up about it until it changes. There is no way to say objectively which one had more impressive year. I think Serral deserved the player of the year award because he won GSL vs. the world and Blizzcon. Also using an argument that depends on a person not being able to imagine something is quite questionable Let's not mince words here. Serral won the "player of the year award" (who even gave that site the right to decide anything) because he was the first non-Korean to win a top tier tournament in a game that has been dominated by Koreans over the last 20 years. He won because of his ethnic origin. If he was a Korean player that award would have gone to a different player playing a different game. Can we use the B word if Serral wins this event? There is 0 SC2 bonjwas. ZERO, so Serral needs to show something amazing for the next years to archieve that. Considering you're a Fin. Thank you. I am a Serral fan, I really am, but this sort of shit really needs to stop. People need to put everything about what he is doing into perspective.
You are not a Serral fan, you might actually like him but no true fan would say what you said.
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On March 02 2019 02:47 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2019 02:40 Elentos wrote:On March 02 2019 02:39 travis wrote:On March 02 2019 02:38 Nakajin wrote:On March 02 2019 02:37 fLyiNgDroNe wrote:On March 02 2019 02:35 deacon.frost wrote:On March 02 2019 02:34 Pandain wrote:On March 02 2019 02:32 Vindicare605 wrote:On March 02 2019 02:28 Pandain wrote:On March 02 2019 02:26 Vindicare605 wrote:
[quote]
No we cant. Serral will have won THREE global events in his entire career. That is nowhere near bonjwa worthy.
Think about that for perspective. As dominant as Serral has been he he was only won 3 tournaments that Koreans have been allowed to participate in. It's disgraceful to our scene that someone that is widely considered one of the best in the world is still stomping all over a regionlocked scene while also declining to participate in the top league in the world.
This just doesn't happen in other sports. Luka Doncic is one of the best Euroleague Players that the league has ever scene and he only started playing in the NBA this year but at least he went over and started playing in it.
You can't be the best and achieve the title of the best when you don't compete against the best on a regular basis. I dont care what sport you're playing.
He didn't just "win." He absolutely destroyed Blizzcon. Outside of the Finals, he absolutely destroyed GSL vs the World. And he just advanced first outside of the group of death. If he shows the same level of play as previous tournaments, it's not simply "winning." It's winning the three most recent biggest international tournaments over the course of 6 months. He destroyed that tournament because his main competitor proxied his way into a 3-0 loss to sOs. He won that entire tournament without beating a single Terran. Think about that? I don't WANT to make these kinds of excuses for Serral. He is legitimately an awesome player, but they are so glaring that only the most rabid delusional fanboy can ignore them. If your argument is that Serral only "destroyed" because another player lost before, your argument is really weak. I could easily say the same for GSL, saying Maru only won because his main competitor was in Finland. Yeah, Serral fanboys use that argument often, but then again - it's easier for Serral to play in GSL than for Maru to join WCS. Explain to me, how its easier. Really. Take months/years having a visa (ok sorry can't stay out of it) okay but for GSL you have to live there for months.. You have to live there for at most 3 months. TRUE and Ragnarok's visa processes went over 9 months. I don't think you guys get the point. You think it's easy for most people to leave their family and move to a foreign country where they don't speak the language for months at a time? As opposed to... flying to a tournament for a weekend or a week?
Except the residency rules force Koreans to live in NA for a certain amount of time if they want to play WCS from NA. A requirement that doesn't apply to non-Koreans so they can practice in Korea all year and then fly out to tournaments for a weekend or a week.
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On March 02 2019 02:49 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2019 02:22 Vindicare605 wrote:On March 02 2019 02:17 RaFox17 wrote:On March 02 2019 02:11 Vindicare605 wrote:On March 02 2019 02:09 starkiller123 wrote:On March 02 2019 02:06 RaFox17 wrote:On March 02 2019 02:03 Vindicare605 wrote:On March 02 2019 02:01 Xain0n wrote:On March 02 2019 01:57 Vindicare605 wrote:On March 02 2019 01:54 RaFox17 wrote:[quote] Luckily he has been killing koreans left and right Indeed he has, which just makes the first part of that point even stronger. No one would EVER be calling out the B word if it was just his Korean kill streak that was being considered, after all Maru's kill streak last year was far more impressive. People are only caring about the streak because of how long it was and it was only as long as it was because he was protected from his best competitors for the majority of the year. Don't get me wrong I am a huge fan of Serral, but his legacy has a MASSIVE asterisk next to it as long as WCS is regionlocked and he refuses to compete in GSL. As long as both of those things are true, I will NEVER call him a bonjwa. No way on earth Maru's kill streak was better, Serral's win streak korean was bigger and more impressive even considering koreans only. IIRC it was 16-0 before today which makes it 20-0 before losing, compared to Maru's 16-1. Think whatever you like, Serral still advanced first in the so-called group of Death today. The unusual thing is usually not losing series, not the opposite. People won tournaments in the past by advancing third in their groups and now a single 1-2 causes all this fuss? I dont give a single shit about the fact that Innovation beat Serral today. In fact I'm here arguing that Serral's streak is blown completely out of proportion because a majority of it was regionlocked. We've seen tremendous kill streaks throughout SC2's history. Serral's isn't special, it's only special because he's a foreigner, and when you start taking those special considerations into perspective there are other factors like regionlocking that need to be considered also. Also, 4 straight GSL championships is WAY more impressive than anything Serral has done so far. That is a fact. Just want to point out that that is a subjective opinion. Winning GSL is impressive but the current format also gives the title holder a free pass to the quarterfinals. this format has been in place for years and yet no one else has been able to sweep a year of GSL with the same advantage Thank you! not even Mvp was ever able to sweep an entire year's worth of seasons. No one ever has. What Maru did last year was unprecedented in SC2 and he did it at the highest level in a tournament that wasn't locked to anyone. Serral can't claim that. He's a super skilled player whose legacy has been inflated thanks to the dumb system that WCS is using. I hate it, and I will not shut up about it until it changes. There is no way to say objectively which one had more impressive year. I think Serral deserved the player of the year award because he won GSL vs. the world and Blizzcon. Also using an argument that depends on a person not being able to imagine something is quite questionable Let's not mince words here. Serral won the "player of the year award" (who even gave that site the right to decide anything) because he was the first non-Korean to win a top tier tournament in a game that has been dominated by Koreans over the last 20 years. He won because of his ethnic origin. If he was a Korean player that award would have gone to a different player playing a different game. On one hand, I get that and I can even appreciate it. On the other hand, Blizzard has been manipulating the system in their game to make it easier and easier for this result to happen. I'm not OK with that. It diminishes the accomplishments of top tier foreigners like Stephano and it inflates the results of people that are legitimately awesome like Serral. I want this shit fair, and I want Serral to win fair and square. I want more tournaments like IEM and fewer like WCS and Blizzcon. You are clueless if you think Serral was crowned best player in the world only because he is not korean; I would actually say it's more impressive as people here value Code S so immensely and he didn't get to play them.
People used to value Code S highly here. Since the Serral hype Code S is often completely dismissed because it doesn't fit the narrative that Serral was by far the best and most dominating player of the year.
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On March 02 2019 02:48 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2019 02:47 travis wrote:On March 02 2019 02:40 Elentos wrote:On March 02 2019 02:39 travis wrote:On March 02 2019 02:38 Nakajin wrote:On March 02 2019 02:37 fLyiNgDroNe wrote:On March 02 2019 02:35 deacon.frost wrote:On March 02 2019 02:34 Pandain wrote:On March 02 2019 02:32 Vindicare605 wrote:On March 02 2019 02:28 Pandain wrote:
[quote]
He didn't just "win."
He absolutely destroyed Blizzcon. Outside of the Finals, he absolutely destroyed GSL vs the World. And he just advanced first outside of the group of death. If he shows the same level of play as previous tournaments, it's not simply "winning." It's winning the three most recent biggest international tournaments over the course of 6 months. He destroyed that tournament because his main competitor proxied his way into a 3-0 loss to sOs. He won that entire tournament without beating a single Terran. Think about that? I don't WANT to make these kinds of excuses for Serral. He is legitimately an awesome player, but they are so glaring that only the most rabid delusional fanboy can ignore them. If your argument is that Serral only "destroyed" because another player lost before, your argument is really weak. I could easily say the same for GSL, saying Maru only won because his main competitor was in Finland. Yeah, Serral fanboys use that argument often, but then again - it's easier for Serral to play in GSL than for Maru to join WCS. Explain to me, how its easier. Really. Take months/years having a visa (ok sorry can't stay out of it) okay but for GSL you have to live there for months.. You have to live there for at most 3 months. TRUE and Ragnarok's visa processes went over 9 months. I don't think you guys get the point. You think it's easy for most people to leave their family and move to a foreign country where they don't speak the language for months at a time? As opposed to... flying to a tournament for a weekend or a week? Also it's not like an American going to Canada or something. Korea is veryyyy different than Europe. Very easy to get culture shock and overwhelmed.
I dont remember who it was but vaguely remember one of the non-koreans progamers had a very tough time and mental difficulties adapting to life in Korea and suffering from being homesick and loneliness. Thats on top of changing living conditions, surroundings, environment, living in the country vs in a huge city, food, language, medicine, hangouts with friends, family, etc etc etc. What is easy for one person can be almost impossible for another, how hard is it to get this?
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On March 02 2019 02:47 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2019 02:40 Elentos wrote:On March 02 2019 02:39 travis wrote:On March 02 2019 02:38 Nakajin wrote:On March 02 2019 02:37 fLyiNgDroNe wrote:On March 02 2019 02:35 deacon.frost wrote:On March 02 2019 02:34 Pandain wrote:On March 02 2019 02:32 Vindicare605 wrote:On March 02 2019 02:28 Pandain wrote:On March 02 2019 02:26 Vindicare605 wrote:
[quote]
No we cant. Serral will have won THREE global events in his entire career. That is nowhere near bonjwa worthy.
Think about that for perspective. As dominant as Serral has been he he was only won 3 tournaments that Koreans have been allowed to participate in. It's disgraceful to our scene that someone that is widely considered one of the best in the world is still stomping all over a regionlocked scene while also declining to participate in the top league in the world.
This just doesn't happen in other sports. Luka Doncic is one of the best Euroleague Players that the league has ever scene and he only started playing in the NBA this year but at least he went over and started playing in it.
You can't be the best and achieve the title of the best when you don't compete against the best on a regular basis. I dont care what sport you're playing.
He didn't just "win." He absolutely destroyed Blizzcon. Outside of the Finals, he absolutely destroyed GSL vs the World. And he just advanced first outside of the group of death. If he shows the same level of play as previous tournaments, it's not simply "winning." It's winning the three most recent biggest international tournaments over the course of 6 months. He destroyed that tournament because his main competitor proxied his way into a 3-0 loss to sOs. He won that entire tournament without beating a single Terran. Think about that? I don't WANT to make these kinds of excuses for Serral. He is legitimately an awesome player, but they are so glaring that only the most rabid delusional fanboy can ignore them. If your argument is that Serral only "destroyed" because another player lost before, your argument is really weak. I could easily say the same for GSL, saying Maru only won because his main competitor was in Finland. Yeah, Serral fanboys use that argument often, but then again - it's easier for Serral to play in GSL than for Maru to join WCS. Explain to me, how its easier. Really. Take months/years having a visa (ok sorry can't stay out of it) okay but for GSL you have to live there for months.. You have to live there for at most 3 months. TRUE and Ragnarok's visa processes went over 9 months. I don't think you guys get the point. You think it's easy for most people to leave their family and move to a foreign country where they don't speak the language for months at a time? As opposed to... flying to a tournament for a weekend or a week?
You. Don;t. Get. It.
I'm not saying it's easy. But that it's EASIER. The "easier" word is fucking important. It is EASIER for Serral to go to play GSL than Korean to play WCS.
Both(Korean player and Serral) leave their family, they leave their home, they leave... better? Clearer?
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On March 02 2019 02:50 argonautdice wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2019 02:47 Tempest wrote:
Serral has also stated that he doesn't feel like its fair that Koreans cant participate in WCS but foreigners can compete in GSL, so he probably wont ever do code S just on principle.
A man of values AND talent.
btw serral best player in the world and is bonjwa don't @me This is a great bait
I tried 
On March 02 2019 02:50 Nakajin wrote:
You know guys I think if we just do one or two more pages of this we will all arrive at the same conclusion
I wish, but I doubt it. Too many tilted people feeling personally attacked, and it seems the games in group D are stalling and theres less non-bonjwa discussion to be had :/
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On March 02 2019 02:51 Fanatic-Templar wrote:
Oh good, people are now arbitrating hype and claiming to be rational.
I was being a bit facetious with the title. My point was I think that's an evaluation of where Serral is at right now that almost everyone might find agreeable...
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EPT
