Can anyone point me in the direction of the studio to watch in Seoul? I would like to go in person but I can't seem to find any details of the studio location! It's been a while since I've been in Korea to be able to watch so apologies if this should be common knowledge.
On January 05 2018 22:05 Tangd357 wrote: Can anyone point me in the direction of the studio to watch in Seoul? I would like to go in person but I can't seem to find any details of the studio location! It's been a while since I've been in Korea to be able to watch so apologies if this should be common knowledge.
Yes that's it. It's in first floor, in July there was construction and the banners were hidden, pretty hard to find, but local people know where it is and if you are not Korean, you will be swiftly pointed to the right direction.
I want to believe in Creator, but I also have no faith in Solar. Almost every time in 2017 that I expected him to win in a Korean tournament, he bombed and almost every time I thought he was going to bomb, he did decently.
While I do like Darkness Sanctuary better than Battle of the Boardwalk it isn't great that they replaced the smallest map in the pool by a huge map. It's not like the map pool was lacking in huge maps already...
On January 06 2018 13:07 Zzzapper wrote: Rotational symmetry needs to die, half of the complaints people have about 4p maps are really about that and would be fixed with mirror symmetry
Frost has mirrored symmetry and yet has a bunch of problems...
On January 06 2018 13:07 Zzzapper wrote: Rotational symmetry needs to die, half of the complaints people have about 4p maps are really about that and would be fixed with mirror symmetry
Frost has mirrored symmetry and yet has a bunch of problems...
Sure, it doesn't fix everything but the two main complaints I see about 4 player maps in general are positional imbalance and not knowing where you oppopnent starts. The first one is gone with mirror symmetry
On January 06 2018 13:07 Zzzapper wrote: Rotational symmetry needs to die, half of the complaints people have about 4p maps are really about that and would be fixed with mirror symmetry
Frost has mirrored symmetry and yet has a bunch of problems...
Sure, it doesn't fix everything but the two main complaints I see about 4 player maps in general are positional imbalance and not knowing where you oppopnent starts. The first one is gone with mirror symmetry
You still end up with games decided by getting favourable or unfavourable spawns (since one player wants diagonal, and the other doesn't).
On January 06 2018 13:07 Zzzapper wrote: Rotational symmetry needs to die, half of the complaints people have about 4p maps are really about that and would be fixed with mirror symmetry
Frost has mirrored symmetry and yet has a bunch of problems...
Sure, it doesn't fix everything but the two main complaints I see about 4 player maps in general are positional imbalance and not knowing where you oppopnent starts. The first one is gone with mirror symmetry
You still end up with games decided by getting favourable or unfavourable spawns (since one player wants diagonal, and the other doesn't).
That's 4 player maps in general though, and it happens 1/3 games on mirror maps instead of every game. I'm not saying 4p maps are neccessarily great, just that mirror>rotational symmetry
On January 06 2018 13:07 Zzzapper wrote: Rotational symmetry needs to die, half of the complaints people have about 4p maps are really about that and would be fixed with mirror symmetry
Frost has mirrored symmetry and yet has a bunch of problems...
Sure, it doesn't fix everything but the two main complaints I see about 4 player maps in general are positional imbalance and not knowing where you oppopnent starts. The first one is gone with mirror symmetry
You still end up with games decided by getting favourable or unfavourable spawns (since one player wants diagonal, and the other doesn't).
That's 4 player maps in general though, and it happens 1/3 games on mirror maps instead of every game. I'm not saying 4p maps are neccessarily great, just that mirror>rotational symmetry
For a 4 player mirrored map to work you have to design both horizontal and vertical to work separately which is a lot more awkward and likely to go wrong than sticking to rotational stuff imo. Not that I'm particularly a fan of either.
On January 06 2018 13:25 Boggyb wrote: Losing one 150/150 unit shouldn't mean you automatically lose the game 4-5 minutes later after taking no other real damage.
Artosis also said last patch was great cause you could make widow mines faster.
On January 06 2018 13:25 Boggyb wrote: Losing one 150/150 unit shouldn't mean you automatically lose the game 4-5 minutes later after taking no other real damage.
While losing the oracle certainly isn't good I wouldn't ascribe the loss to that. It's more INno just being generally better than Creator.
I think I would prefer Darkness Sanctuary in the WCS ladder instead of Battle of the Boardwalk. Both are really great looking maps but I would like DS because 4 player maps on the 1v1 ladder are something that I miss from the old days when I played all of the time and also, selfishly, my pleb mind can not figure out PvAnything on BotB.
On January 06 2018 13:25 Boggyb wrote: Losing one 150/150 unit shouldn't mean you automatically lose the game 4-5 minutes later after taking no other real damage.
maybe the fact it was Creator playing vs INnoVation has more to do with that loss. herO/Stats can totally win after losing Oracles.
On January 06 2018 13:28 breaker1328 wrote: I think I would prefer Darkness Sanctuary in the WCS ladder instead of Battle of the Boardwalk. Both are really great looking maps but I would like DS because 4 player maps on the 1v1 ladder are something that I miss from the old days when I played all of the time and also, selfishly, my pleb mind can not figure out PvAnything on BotB.
I've never played a game on Battle of the Boardwalk tbh
On January 06 2018 13:28 breaker1328 wrote: I think I would prefer Darkness Sanctuary in the WCS ladder instead of Battle of the Boardwalk. Both are really great looking maps but I would like DS because 4 player maps on the 1v1 ladder are something that I miss from the old days when I played all of the time and also, selfishly, my pleb mind can not figure out PvAnything on BotB.
Grab the gold no matter what, and hope to live long enough to outmoney them.
On January 06 2018 13:33 Boggyb wrote: INnoVation is a much better player than Creator, but I saw nothing from either of those games that justified how lopsided either of those games was.
On January 06 2018 13:33 Boggyb wrote: INnoVation is a much better player than Creator, but I saw nothing from either of those games that justified how lopsided either of those games was.
On January 06 2018 13:33 Boggyb wrote: INnoVation is a much better player than Creator, but I saw nothing from either of those games that justified how lopsided either of those games was.
Terran too strong in TvP
Obviously
Had nothing to do with the sick position Inno got in the first game or the massive WM hits in the second, or how Creator completely failed to do the standard Protoss blink stalker kiting/whittling down as Inno pushed. Nothing whatsoever. It was all because Terran is OP
On January 06 2018 13:33 Boggyb wrote: INnoVation is a much better player than Creator, but I saw nothing from either of those games that justified how lopsided either of those games was.
Terran too strong in TvP
Obviously
Had nothing to do with the sick position Inno got in the first game or the massive WM hits in the second, or how Creator completely failed to do the standard Protoss blink stalker kiting/whittling down as Inno pushed. Nothing whatsoever. It was all because Terran is OP
Creator had Bonjwa level forcefields and it didn't matter. Inno still rolled him.
G2 not enough damage by oracles and the gateway army should have been more aggressive about causing damage during the retreat? I saw exposed free mines during the first forcefield wall that lived e.g.
On January 06 2018 13:33 Boggyb wrote: INnoVation is a much better player than Creator, but I saw nothing from either of those games that justified how lopsided either of those games was.
Terran too strong in TvP
Obviously
Had nothing to do with the sick position Inno got in the first game or the massive WM hits in the second, or how Creator completely failed to do the standard Protoss blink stalker kiting/whittling down as Inno pushed. Nothing whatsoever. It was all because Terran is OP
On January 06 2018 13:32 pvsnp wrote: Those WM hits were huge, won him the game
Lots of lower level Terran players have been complaining that the widow mine is pretty much unusable now because of the changes but Innovation just showed us that the role of the widow mine has changed from harass unit to Terran baneling. Once I saw what the changes were I figured that the units role had been shifted in that direction and I'm glad that Inno proved me right.
I am now prepared for this to never happen to me again.
On January 06 2018 13:39 pvsnp wrote: I mean Artosis explicitly said that Inno could probably beat Creator even if Marines were removed from the game, so........
Still remember Creator being this Protoss prodigy in 2012. no idea what happened to him
On January 06 2018 13:39 pvsnp wrote: I mean Artosis explicitly said that Inno could probably beat Creator even if Marines were removed from the game, so........
Artosis basically said that since he's so smart and he likes SC:BW, everyone should like it. He says lots of dumb things.
On January 06 2018 13:39 pvsnp wrote: I mean Artosis explicitly said that Inno could probably beat Creator even if Marines were removed from the game, so........
Artosis basically said that since he's so smart and he likes SC:BW, everyone should like it. He says lots of dumb things.
And that precludes him from saying anything smart?
Seriously man, if you are trying to claim there is a world where the best Terran doesn't roflstomp a Ro32 Protoss regardless of imbalance, I don't know what to say.
On January 06 2018 13:33 Boggyb wrote: INnoVation is a much better player than Creator, but I saw nothing from either of those games that justified how lopsided either of those games was.
Terran too strong in TvP
Obviously
Had nothing to do with the sick position Inno got in the first game or the massive WM hits in the second, or how Creator completely failed to do the standard Protoss blink stalker kiting/whittling down as Inno pushed. Nothing whatsoever. It was all because Terran is OP
those protoss whiners, never stop lol
That's funny to see Terrans who are complaining the other race have the same behavior they always have.
On January 06 2018 13:55 Charoisaur wrote: If Inno beats Leenock and advances he will have the record for most GSL ro16 appearances (13 to PartinG's 12)
On January 06 2018 13:55 Boggyb wrote: That was Dark vs. a foreigner level of domination. I don't think anyone saw that coming.
I thought it might happen if he drew Creator but I expected more out of Solar. Still though, in Solar's defense, who does two base muta anymore? And anyone can lose to a ling flood with banelings. I mean, the only way I can think of to catch that is with a drone scout and who the hell drone scouts in ZvZ?
On January 06 2018 13:55 Charoisaur wrote: If Inno beats Leenock and advances he will have the record for most GSL ro16 appearances (13 to PartinG's 12)
Wow. Is there a list of this somewhere?
no I just went to Liquipedia and counted it together for the accomplished players. Maru is close too with 11 ro16 appearances.
Forgive my ignorance, but has Code S always had this format in the group stage? Seems like a round robin would be more compelling as every player would play each other player.
On January 06 2018 13:55 Charoisaur wrote: If Inno beats Leenock and advances he will have the record for most GSL ro16 appearances (13 to PartinG's 12)
Wow. Is there a list of this somewhere?
no I just went to Liquipedia and counted it together for the accomplished players. Maru is close too with 11 ro16 appearances.
On January 06 2018 14:01 TBNolan wrote: Forgive my ignorance, but has Code S always had this format in the group stage? Seems like a round robin would be more compelling as every player would play each other player.
There were some variations in early years but by and large yes, the current format has always been the GSL format,
On January 06 2018 14:01 TBNolan wrote: Forgive my ignorance, but has Code S always had this format in the group stage? Seems like a round robin would be more compelling as every player would play each other player.
Apart from the very very early GSLs yes. Round robins have other issues like three-way ties, and players playing games that don't matter to them which can be awkward.
On January 06 2018 14:01 TBNolan wrote: Forgive my ignorance, but has Code S always had this format in the group stage? Seems like a round robin would be more compelling as every player would play each other player.
They call this group format when played in other tournaments "GSL Style Groups".
On January 06 2018 14:01 TBNolan wrote: Forgive my ignorance, but has Code S always had this format in the group stage? Seems like a round robin would be more compelling as every player would play each other player.
Apart from the very very early GSLs yes. Round robins have other issues like three-way ties, and players playing games that don't matter to them which can be awkward.
On January 06 2018 14:01 TBNolan wrote: Forgive my ignorance, but has Code S always had this format in the group stage? Seems like a round robin would be more compelling as every player would play each other player.
They call this group format when played in other tournaments "GSL Style Groups".
I think of it as double elimination, haven't really heard it called that
On January 06 2018 14:01 TBNolan wrote: Forgive my ignorance, but has Code S always had this format in the group stage? Seems like a round robin would be more compelling as every player would play each other player.
Apart from the very very early GSLs yes. Round robins have other issues like three-way ties, and players playing games that don't matter to them which can be awkward.
On January 06 2018 14:05 Charoisaur wrote: Curious if Bio or Mech
Bio.
no need to bust out the mecharino vs Leenock...
I'm inclined to agree. Bio seems the safer choice against an inferior opponent.
I would think the safer choice is a hellion opening TvZ but Innovation might think he has the skill to pull off the bio vs Leenock. I think if Innovation is playing against Dark or Rogue, he does a mech opening.
On January 06 2018 14:05 Charoisaur wrote: Curious if Bio or Mech
Bio.
no need to bust out the mecharino vs Leenock...
I'm inclined to agree. Bio seems the safer choice against an inferior opponent.
I would think the safer choice is a hellion opening TvZ but Innovation might think he has the skill to pull off the bio vs Leenock. I think if Innovation is playing against Dark or Rogue, he does a mech opening.
INno seems to like bio more than the other Korean terrans though. Mixing it up regardless of the opponent is best though, since like that it keeps the zerg guessing as to whether they should get upgrades or not.
I feel like crossing the map and punching your opponent in the face is pretty standard after your opponent trades huge amounts of army supply for economic damage.
On January 06 2018 14:14 sneakyfox wrote: Damn innovation. Is this going to be like 2016 where Dark singlehandedly prevented Zerg from getting buffed?
Inno is playing Creator and Leenock, not herO and Rogue
Point taken. He did however just play Classic.
Inno lost to Classic in the WESG qualifiers, the IEM Pyeongchang qualifiers, and the winner's bracket of IEM Katowice qualifiers before finally managing to beat Classic 3-2
On January 06 2018 14:14 sneakyfox wrote: Damn innovation. Is this going to be like 2016 where Dark singlehandedly prevented Zerg from getting buffed?
Inno is playing Creator and Leenock, not herO and Rogue
Point taken. He did however just play Classic.
Inno lost to Classic in the WESG qualifiers, the IEM Pyeongchang qualifiers, and the winner's bracket of IEM Katowice qualifiers before finally managing to beat Classic 3-2
The WESG qualifiers was a best of 1 so not a great data point.
Using Hydra Ling Bane as an aggressive comp against bio seems like a huge mistake. I thought part of the strength of the comp was how easily it lets you get to hive.
On January 06 2018 14:26 Boggyb wrote: Using Hydra Ling Bane as an aggressive comp against bio seems like a huge mistake. I thought part of the strength of the comp was how easily it lets you get to hive.
On January 06 2018 14:26 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I'm confused, I was watching avilo earlier today and he told me that terran had been essentially removed from the game. How did Inno win?
On January 06 2018 14:26 Solar424 wrote: Terran clearly too weak, Inno should've 5-0'd this group.
Marauder buff is needed not because terran needs help against stalkers in TvP or bio needs help in TvZ, but because we want to get fewer cyclones in all the TvTs we're going to see.
On January 06 2018 14:26 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I'm confused, I was watching avilo earlier today and he told me that terran had been essentially removed from the game. How did Inno win?
On January 06 2018 14:26 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I'M confused, I was watching avilo earlier today and he told me that terran had been essentially removed from the game. How did Inno win?
I never play this match up so quick question would ultras have been better than viper? I'm curious about the viper choice since inno didn't really have any tanks for blinding cloud to be useful or liberators or thors to yoink. I feel like I've already answered the question but I'm using my f2p account to play random.
On January 06 2018 14:14 sneakyfox wrote: Damn innovation. Is this going to be like 2016 where Dark singlehandedly prevented Zerg from getting buffed?
Inno is playing Creator and Leenock, not herO and Rogue
Point taken. He did however just play Classic.
Inno lost to Classic in the WESG qualifiers, the IEM Pyeongchang qualifiers, and the winner's bracket of IEM Katowice qualifiers before finally managing to beat Classic 3-2
The WESG qualifiers was a best of 1 so not a great data point.
True enough, on their own they are a terrible indicator. When combined with the others though it's pretty obvious that since 4.0, Classic > Inno.
On January 06 2018 14:30 breaker1328 wrote: I never play this match up so quick question would ultras have been better than viper? I'm curious about the viper choice since inno didn't really have any tanks for blinding cloud to be useful or liberators or thors to yoink. I feel like I've already answered the question but I'm using my f2p account to play random.
If you have them out with chitinous, sure, but Leenock didn't really have the time or resources to get there.
On January 06 2018 14:30 breaker1328 wrote: I never play this match up so quick question would ultras have been better than viper? I'm curious about the viper choice since inno didn't really have any tanks for blinding cloud to be useful or liberators or thors to yoink. I feel like I've already answered the question but I'm using my f2p account to play random.
Ultras take a while to be useful (Chitinous Plating) and are less valuable in low numbers than vipers.
Thanks for the replies guys, I've been playing OW for the last year or so (which proved to be a poor decision) so I've gone back to SC2 for my competitive fix. Thank you for answering my questions.
On January 06 2018 14:43 Boggyb wrote: I feel like Stargate openers are still pretty common in PvZ from what I've seen from WCS Circuit.
Yeah. Stargate is still the most common opening in both Korea and the rest of the world. Stargate into adept heavy play is more common than before I think, but you still go Stargate first usually, since it's safer.
Very good timing from Creator exploiting Solar going straight for Broodlord. Pretty surprising to see that out of Creator. Maybe I'm just underrating him after that first series.
I'm kind of surprised that Solar didn't try to harass again after the recall went on cooldown. I guess Solar knew that Creator wasn't turning around regardless and wanted all his supply and larva for the fight.
This Protoss build makes you look quite stylish before Zerg steamrolls you over. I don't think I've seen it win often, at least not the templar archives before third nexus variant.
On January 06 2018 15:01 ZigguratOfUr wrote: This Protoss build makes you look quite stylish before Zerg steamrolls you over. I don't think I've seen it win often.
It's a meta build, there's a tried and true way to stop it but Creator was guessing that solar was going to be greedy that game and it didn't work.
Solar running his banelings through the meatgrinder before turning back just before they reached the stalkers... But stalker/colossus just sucks against what Solar has.
Leenock just said that he was hired before making Code S which makes TitanEX1's hiring record pretty impressive, since every single one of their hires including Ragnarok and Leenock made it through the qualifiers.
On January 06 2018 15:49 NKexquisite wrote: Leenock 4-0ing Solar is probably one of the most surprising thing to happen in GSL in the past year or so, no?
On January 06 2018 15:51 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Leenock just said that he was hired before making Code S which makes TitanEX1's hiring record pretty impressive, since every single one of their hires including Ragnarok and Leenock made it through the qualifiers.
On January 06 2018 15:49 NKexquisite wrote: Leenock 4-0ing Solar is probably one of the most surprising thing to happen in GSL in the past year or so, no?
NoRegreT.
TitanEX1 hired players their AI predicted would qualify for Code S
On January 06 2018 15:51 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Leenock just said that he was hired before making Code S which makes TitanEX1's hiring record pretty impressive, since every single one of their hires including Ragnarok and Leenock made it through the qualifiers.
On January 06 2018 15:49 NKexquisite wrote: Leenock 4-0ing Solar is probably one of the most surprising thing to happen in GSL in the past year or so, no?
NoRegreT.
The story is that they were at GSL qualifiers offering contracts to players who qualified
On January 06 2018 15:51 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Leenock just said that he was hired before making Code S which makes TitanEX1's hiring record pretty impressive, since every single one of their hires including Ragnarok and Leenock made it through the qualifiers.
On January 06 2018 15:49 NKexquisite wrote: Leenock 4-0ing Solar is probably one of the most surprising thing to happen in GSL in the past year or so, no?
NoRegreT.
The story is that they were at GSL qualifiers offering contracts to players who qualified
Forgot it was early in the morning :o. Nice to see INno advance even tho it was only Leenock and Creator, surprised to see Leenock beat Solar twice... My lb is fucked but nice to see old folks come back in such a way
The future of Zerg is in the hands of a formerly retired player, someone who might have gotten complacent after winning ~$300,000, a choker, foreigners, a promising but unproven player, and Dark. God help us all when Zerg gets buffed despite not needing it.
On January 07 2018 00:40 Boggyb wrote: The future of Zerg is in the hands of a formerly retired player, someone who might have gotten complacent after winning ~$300,000, a choker, foreigners, a promising but unproven player, and Dark. God help us all when Zerg gets buffed despite not needing it.
On January 07 2018 00:40 Boggyb wrote: The future of Zerg is in the hands of a formerly retired player, someone who might have gotten complacent after winning ~$300,000, a choker, foreigners, a promising but unproven player, and Dark. God help us all when Zerg gets buffed despite not needing it.
In that case the future of terran is in the hands of a choker, a foreigner, two players who are shadows of their former selves, and Innovation.
Man the ZvZ where Leenock went mutas was a brilliant build. The lings being used to take out 3 queens needed for the eventual defense...really well thought out
On January 08 2018 11:10 juicyjames wrote: Were any of these games recommended?
Not really. They were all rather onesided. Creator vs Solar game 1 was decent but still a pretty standard pre-BL timing.
On January 07 2018 00:40 Boggyb wrote: The future of Zerg is in the hands of a formerly retired player, someone who might have gotten complacent after winning ~$300,000, a choker, foreigners, a promising but unproven player, and Dark. God help us all when Zerg gets buffed despite not needing it.
On January 07 2018 00:40 Boggyb wrote: The future of Zerg is in the hands of a formerly retired player, someone who might have gotten complacent after winning ~$300,000, a choker, foreigners, a promising but unproven player, and Dark. God help us all when Zerg gets buffed despite not needing it.
In that case the future of terran is in the hands of a choker, a foreigner, two players who are shadows of their former selves, and Innovation.
EPT
2018 Global StarCraft II League Season 1/Code S
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/663.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/2838.jpg)
INnoVation vs 
Creator![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/1971.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/4797.jpg)
Leenock vs 
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/k8rpLUZ.jpg)
