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On March 29 2017 10:46 ProBell wrote:
As I'm writing this, WCS Challenger qualifier is going on and twitch.tv/STARCRAFT aka main stream channel is NOT listed on Teamliquid website...
avilo
PiGStarcraft
TaKeTV
WardiTV
RuFF_SC2
feardragon
These are the only streams listed...RIP SC2 fans not knowing where to go to watch the qualifier.
True, hopefully someone knows someone who can do something about it.
Also avilo really got himself in a boy who cried wolf situation. Maybe don't call everyone you play a hacker if you want to be taken seriously when reporting actual hackers?
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On March 29 2017 10:47 jalstar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2017 10:46 ProBell wrote:
As I'm writing this, WCS Challenger qualifier is going on and twitch.tv/STARCRAFT aka main stream channel is NOT listed on Teamliquid website...
avilo
PiGStarcraft
TaKeTV
WardiTV
RuFF_SC2
feardragon
These are the only streams listed...RIP SC2 fans not knowing where to go to watch the qualifier. True, hopefully someone knows someone who can do something about it. Also avilo really got himself in a boy who cried wolf situation. Maybe don't call everyone you play a hacker if you want to be taken seriously when reporting actual hackers?
This. People don't take it serious because avilo accuses anyone beating him as hacking anyways not because he is a low level player.
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On March 29 2017 10:47 jalstar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2017 10:46 ProBell wrote:
As I'm writing this, WCS Challenger qualifier is going on and twitch.tv/STARCRAFT aka main stream channel is NOT listed on Teamliquid website...
avilo
PiGStarcraft
TaKeTV
WardiTV
RuFF_SC2
feardragon
These are the only streams listed...RIP SC2 fans not knowing where to go to watch the qualifier. True, hopefully someone knows someone who can do something about it. Also avilo really got himself in a boy who cried wolf situation. Maybe don't call everyone you play a hacker if you want to be taken seriously when reporting actual hackers?
How the fuck is it a boy who cried wolf situation when i've played this guy over 30 times on ladder and reported him multiple times and he's still not IP banned from bnet.
Everyone knows the guy fuckin hacks, there's a ton of evidence from the past 2+ yrs and nothing is done about it because it's just "avilo" playing in a qualifier and i'm not a korean pro apparently?
NERO = RETRIBUTION = VINDICTA http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/383770/1/Nero/ https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/3z31c1/nero13_year_old_mexican_kid_confirmed_maphacker/ SAME HOTKEYS https://twitter.com/rize_sc2/status/846908516828774401
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I think you may need to reread the Boy Who Cried Wolf if you don't understand how this is that kind of situation.
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Sufficient proof, but not sure if he was "hacking" that game or not, so not sure if anything can be done.
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Watching Ruff's stream of his games vs Retribution.
It is shady af.
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On March 29 2017 12:07 Xx_Enchantress_xX wrote:
Sufficient proof, but not sure if he was "hacking" that game or not, so not sure if anything can be done.
That game itself can't be a %100 proof of maphacking but a known hacker player shouldn't be allowed in a wcs event in the first place.
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On March 29 2017 12:10 JabuSeika wrote:
Watching Ruff's stream of his games vs Retribution.
It is shady af.
Doesn't really matter, he shouldn't have been allowed to compete in the first place.
Also does avilo not get that we're trying to help him out? Like the admins won't believe avilo since he accuses lots of innocent people of maphacking, but it seems like everyone else realizes he played an actual hacker, regardless of how they feel about avilo.
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It can't have helped that avilo was also screaming in chat that his opponent literally clicked on his tanks through the fog of war and then when an admin watched the replay and couldn't find it, avilo immediately changed his story
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Watching vindicta vs cuddlebear just now, it didn't appear there was any map hacking going on. Maybe he cleaned up his act?
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Does it matter if he cleaned up his act? Guy has maphacked multiple times in the past. Now he's free to play in WCS?
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Avilo knows Retribution's reputation. No matter how the games went he was going to accuse him of hacking.
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France12911 Posts
On March 29 2017 13:20 geokilla wrote:Watching vindicta vs cuddlebear just now, it didn't appear there was any map hacking going on. Maybe he cleaned up his act?
So why is Life banned from competing again if maphacking doesn't prevent you from playing in tournaments?
Why is it even an issue, who was paid to decide "yeah yeah let a known hacker play in our qualifier".
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On March 29 2017 14:51 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2017 13:20 geokilla wrote:Watching vindicta vs cuddlebear just now, it didn't appear there was any map hacking going on. Maybe he cleaned up his act? So why is Life banned from competing again if maphacking doesn't prevent you from playing in tournaments? Why is it even an issue, who was paid to decide "yeah yeah let a known hacker play in our qualifier".
In all fairness, Life did not maphack. Rather, matchfixed actual offline tournament games for money. In doing so, he not only harmed himself, but he also harmed the reputation of esports and Starcraft in general.
I'm not saying hackers should be allowed in tournaments, but I am saying that the two do not make a good comparison.
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On March 29 2017 15:00 FrkFrJss wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2017 14:51 Poopi wrote:On March 29 2017 13:20 geokilla wrote:Watching vindicta vs cuddlebear just now, it didn't appear there was any map hacking going on. Maybe he cleaned up his act? So why is Life banned from competing again if maphacking doesn't prevent you from playing in tournaments? Why is it even an issue, who was paid to decide "yeah yeah let a known hacker play in our qualifier". In all fairness, Life did not maphack. Rather, matchfixed actual offline tournament games for money. In doing so, he not only harmed himself, but he also harmed the reputation of esports and Starcraft in general. I'm not saying hackers should be allowed in tournaments, but I am saying that the two do not make a good comparison.
He also, and this is the important part, BROKE THE LAW AND WAS CHARGED. That's a little more significant that map hacking even on ladder.
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France12911 Posts
Match fixing is better than map hacking tho, in one case you don't use unfair advantage in order to win and in the other you do.
How is letting a hacker play not harming the reputation of Starcraft?
Because after seeing this I'm a bit baffled by WCS NA and probably not the only one.
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On March 29 2017 15:05 Poopi wrote:
Match fixing is better than map hacking tho, in one case you don't use unfair advantage in order to win and in the other you do.
How is letting a hacker play not harming the reputation of Starcraft?
Because after seeing this I'm a bit baffled by WCS NA and probably not the only one.
It's certainly an interesting opinion that match fixing is better than map hacking. But regardless, how many people actually know and care about map hacking in a qualifier for a foreign tournament? Sure, the dedicated fans of Starcraft will care, some more than others.
Life's scandal was so huge because it was much more publicly known. Those who are familiar with the esports scene as well as fans in Korea would have known about this. And this does more to damage the reputation of Starcraft than someone almost nobody knows who WAS a maphacker (not necessarily even hacking at this point) winning against avilo.
Again, I'm not saying this situation is good for Starcraft, but Life's situation was much, much more damaging.
EDIT: Also, according to the wiki, avilo played against a map.
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If this is any other player, people would be talking about the actual hacker and getting the problem resolved. I mean, it's bad enough i presented evidence before the games even went on, but then they decided to parade Nero around on stream for another 2-3 series after that lol.
All because i'm "avilo" not going to look at facts and do jobs as tourney admins, etc. Stay classy SC2 =/
It's sad because these qualifiers come up once every what....6-8 months? A lot of us take this seriously...i do, and i'm pretty sure other players do.
It annoys me to think if this happened to foreigner pro X or high profile korean pro #xxx something would have been done about it i'm sure.
But it seems NA is not important enough lol. And tbh, this isn't anything new. The same thing happened to MaximusBlack vs Livemau over 1-2 yrs ago, although maximusblack opted to forfeit his games to not give more exposure to the hacker, but sadly that doesn't solve anything. So i don't mind the fact that i chose to play versus the guy even after showing admins who the person was, because maybe it'll get them to do something about it?
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France12911 Posts
On March 29 2017 16:06 FrkFrJss wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2017 15:05 Poopi wrote:
Match fixing is better than map hacking tho, in one case you don't use unfair advantage in order to win and in the other you do.
How is letting a hacker play not harming the reputation of Starcraft?
Because after seeing this I'm a bit baffled by WCS NA and probably not the only one. It's certainly an interesting opinion that match fixing is better than map hacking. But regardless, how many people actually know and care about map hacking in a qualifier for a foreign tournament? Sure, the dedicated fans of Starcraft will care, some more than others. Life's scandal was so huge because it was much more publicly known. Those who are familiar with the esports scene as well as fans in Korea would have known about this. And this does more to damage the reputation of Starcraft than someone almost nobody knows who WAS a maphacker (not necessarily even hacking at this point) winning against avilo. Again, I'm not saying this situation is good for Starcraft, but Life's situation was much, much more damaging. EDIT: Also, according to the wiki, avilo played against a map.
I'm not comparing Life situation to the Nero thing, but playing against a match fixer or playing against a maphacker.
My point isn't that what Life did was ok, far from it, but that as obvious as it was to ban Life from competing, it should be obvious to ban proven cheaters from competing as well.
When you are playing a tournament, it doesn't bother you (at least not now, it might have consequences for you in the future since it can affect sc2 as a whole) if your opponent is match fixing or not since it won't lower your win chance.
However playing against a maphacker is infuriating because if he is actively doing it you are probably screwed, and if he isn't you'll always wonder and will probably, legitimately, tilt, because the situation isn't supposed to happen if the guy is a publicly known maphacker.
The most infuriating thing is that it's very hard to detect match fixing, whereas banning known maphackers is really easy on the other hand, the work is already done...
And I agree with avilo that if that happened against a known pro from EU or KR (even though it's less likely for the maphacker to win against such players if he isn't actively maphacking because such players probably won't tilt enough to lose the games?) with the not banned known maphacker winning, it would have started an uproar.
And right now, afaik, "Retribution" will go to Austin to compete.
What are they gonna say to him? "Oh hello map hacker welcome to WCS we have cookies and points"?
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EPT
