EPTOccasionally, only that I also play the game and talk to pros, as opposed to most of you people who don't do either.
[SSL 2017] Premier Division - Week 1 - Page 19
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Olli
Austria24417 Posts
Occasionally, only that I also play the game and talk to pros, as opposed to most of you people who don't do either. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15928 Posts
On March 20 2017 22:30 Olli wrote: Only that there are no complaints at all. Where's the reddit threads? The balance whine in LRs? Do I really need to link you to examples in 2014? We had staff meetings specifically to address the problem of ridiculous balance whine. But hey, protoss has been doing far worse for months (statistically) than Terran ever did back then and it's perfectly fine. Blizzard made one change that doesn't address the core issue and everything is great again. Terran back then was perfectly fine statistics-wise. Only that they couldn't win if protoss played correctly. It's the same now, only that protoss also isn't fine statistically. I think people have learned by now that balance-whine isn't allowed in LR threads. For reddit threads there have been a ton before the patches. Terran back then was perfectly fine statistics-wise. Only that they couldn't win if protoss played correctly. It's the same now, only that protoss also isn't fine statistically. I wouldn't consider 3 terrans in Code S perfectly fine. | ||
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Elentos
55511 Posts
On March 20 2017 22:33 Olli wrote: Occasionally, only that I also play the game and talk to pros, as opposed to most of you people who don't do either. Can't really fault people for not having the connections to talk to pros. | ||
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
On March 20 2017 22:34 Elentos wrote: Can't really fault people for not having the connections to talk to pros. We do shitpost with Nerchio from time to time  | ||
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Phredxor
New Zealand15076 Posts
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Penev
28475 Posts
On March 20 2017 22:35 Durnuu wrote: We do shitpost with Nerchio from time to time Korean Protoss HAHAHA | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On March 20 2017 22:33 Olli wrote: Occasionally, only that I also play the game and talk to pros, as opposed to most of you people who don't do either. I already told you that "talking to pros" isn't a good argument. Pros are biased just as much. I don't even wanna say that you are wrong, but it's not a clear cut thing atm after the patch, we really need more stats to evaluate the situation again. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
I already told you that "talking to pros" isn't a good argument. Pros are biased just as much. I don't even wanna say that you are wrong, but it's not a clear cut thing atm after the patch, we really need more stats to evaluate the situation again. He might not be wrong, yes, but there is absolutely no case for him being right. Not enough evidence by a long shot, and what there is points against him. | ||
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Phredxor
New Zealand15076 Posts
On March 20 2017 22:36 The_Red_Viper wrote: I already told you that "talking to pros" isn't a good argument. Pros are biased just as much. I don't even wanna say that you are wrong, but it's not a clear cut thing atm after the patch, we really need more stats to evaluate the situation again. 7 gate adept unholdable even if scouted was confirmed by a pro. | ||
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opisska
Poland8852 Posts
On March 20 2017 22:33 Olli wrote: Occasionally, only that I also play the game and talk to pros, as opposed to most of you people who don't do either. As someone who can't play the game right now due to my hand not working properly (not clear if due to the illness or a side-effect of treatment) I find this remark offensively ableist! | ||
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Olli
Austria24417 Posts
On March 20 2017 22:32 pvsnp wrote: Did you completely ignore both my post about statistics along with those statistics themselves? I can understand the balance frustration but if you just outright bury your head in the sand and whine without any evidence to justify (and in fact evidence that directly contradicts your whining) then you aren't going to get very far. Last month (February) Protoss was at 45%. That's the highest it's been since November. The highest winrate PvT ever reached during the so-called blink era was 55%. So I do wonder where the outrage is. I don't know results of this month and if it's not completed yet, it's pretty pointless to use. I'm telling you that, actually play the game, the liberator patch hasn't changed anything and the widow mine patch only help phoenix/adept, which still gets killed by certain builds. So the core problem still isn't addressed. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15928 Posts
On March 20 2017 22:37 Phredxor wrote: 7 gate adept unholdable even if scouted was confirmed by a pro. also in 2014 terran was literally BL/Infestor in TvP. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
I already told you that "talking to pros" isn't a good argument. Pros are biased just as much. Pros most likely know the most about balance and what is/is not a problem. However, actually opening their mouths and talking honestly is another matter. Any balance change directly impacts their chances of making money, so it's only rational for them to lie about the state of the game. There's literally no incentive to be honest when your own race is OP. | ||
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Phredxor
New Zealand15076 Posts
On March 20 2017 22:39 Charoisaur wrote: also in 2014 terran was literally BL/Infestor in TvP. Never gets old :D | ||
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
On March 20 2017 22:39 Charoisaur wrote: also in 2014 terran was literally BL/Infestor in TvP. Ah, Rain, I miss you | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15928 Posts
On March 20 2017 22:38 Olli wrote: Last month (February) Protoss was at 45%. That's the highest it's been since November. The highest winrate PvT ever reached during the so-called blink era was 55%. I don't results of this month and if it's not completed yet, it's pretty pointless to use. I'm telling you that, actually play the game, the liberator patch hasn't changed anything and the widow mine patch only help phoenix/adept, which still gets killed by certain builds. So the core problem still isn't addressed. using pre-patch winrates is even more pointless. and have you talked to pros what effect the patches had? probably not to terran pros. Polt for example said that the liberator nerf is a massive nerf to mass liberator styles and he wanted to rely less on them because of that. | ||
Poopi
France12795 Posts
On March 20 2017 22:16 Olli wrote: I don't understand where you get the idea from that protoss is favored against Terran, it can't be due to winrates or championships or anything game-related. Recent nerfs plus terrans losing everywhere in online cups or tournaments plus watching the games. TY barely beat Stats before wm nerf because Stats messed up badly (as you can see in PiG daily on the match), while avoiding macro games (which indicates that it's very hard to win on most maps, because TY is okay at playing the late game if there is enough chance to win). | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/QuhxJpO.png) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/86eEteH.png) GSL Code S Statistics ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/djxILN8.png) Go on, tell me that the statistics show that Protoss is hopelessly underpowered vs Terran. "Alternative facts" anyone? I lose my fair share of games on the ladder like everyone else, but bitching and moaning about balance is not the right way to do anything besides make yourself look like an ignorant, whiny, immature, internet caricature. | ||
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Poopi
France12795 Posts
On March 20 2017 22:33 Olli wrote: Occasionally, only that I also play the game and talk to pros, as opposed to most of you people who don't do either. At what MMR do you play the game and to which pros do you talk? | ||
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Olli
Austria24417 Posts
On March 20 2017 22:41 Charoisaur wrote: using pre-patch winrates is even more pointless. and have you talked to pros what effect the patches had? probably not to terran pros. Polt for example said that the liberator nerf is a massive nerf to mass liberator styles and he wanted to rely less on them because of that. Liberators in PvT are all about the transition timings. If Terran gets to mass liberator before protoss can get to tempests, protoss dies. The damage nerf doesn't matter, you can't engage mass liberator with a ground army. If protoss does get to tempests, then liberators might as well have the same damage output as before. That wasn't an issue then either. The only time the patch actually has an impact is when terrans use liberators in tank pushes, and the issue with those were never liberators to begin with, but tanks. The widow mine nerf is great for phoenix/adept, but doesn't address the issue that Protoss can still be exploited early (as you saw with the widow mine -> 2 medivac pushout earlier), and Protoss still has to fight consistently to keep Terran down to be able to transition or stay on the unit composition. If Terran sits back and only attacks if you transition, phoenix/adept still sucks. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/IEM_Season_XI_-_World_Championship#Bracket_5 This is the most recent tournament. That's what you should be looking at. | ||
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