EPTOn April 05 2016 19:59 Elentos wrote:
Maru and INno got to the semis/finals in GSL and TY got to the semis in SSL.
Maru and INno got to the semis/finals in GSL and TY got to the semis in SSL.
that JA terran doesn't count for a whole terran
[SPL] Round 2 2016 - SKT T1 vs MVP Chicken Maru - Page 23
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Noonius
Estonia17413 Posts
that JA terran doesn't count for a whole terran | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On April 05 2016 19:54 sashkata wrote: lol I don't know what's funnier. Dark overrated or Gumiho top 3 Terran. Last GSL: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2015_Global_StarCraft_II_League_Season_3/Code_S 3 Terrans in the Ro8. One of them is Gumiho. Last season proleague: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2015_Proleague/Statistics Carrying MVP with the best Terran winrate (9-3) in that proleague season. Dark is overrated. He is only being hyped so much because all the previous great Zergs either suck balls at the moment - soO, ByuL, Rogue, Soulkey or are plainly gone (you-know-who). He isn't bad, but if he wins that SSL season it is because the tournament was held way too early in LotV when noone had a clue about the game and a somewhat random sample of players, that aren't on top in Korea anymore already, moved on. | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On April 05 2016 20:01 Big J wrote: Last GSL: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2015_Global_StarCraft_II_League_Season_3/Code_S 3 Terrans in the Ro8. One of them is Gumiho. Last season proleague: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2015_Proleague/Statistics Carrying MVP with the best Terran winrate (9-3) in that proleague season. Dark is overrated. He is only being hyped so much because all the previous great Zergs either suck balls at the moment - soO, ByuL, Rogue, Soulkey or are plainly gone (you-know-who). He isn't bad, but if he wins that SSL season it is because the tournament was held way too early in LotV when noone had a clue about the game and just a somewhat random sample of players that aren't on top in Korea anymore already moved on. right so every Zerg sucks but the one that doesnt suck is overrated wont even comment on relevance of your hots career to your lotv results | ||
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Penev
28512 Posts
On April 05 2016 20:06 Ej_ wrote: right so every Zerg sucks but the one that doesnt suck is overrated wont even comment on relevance of your hots career to your lotv results Calling people overrated (or underrated) is useless anyway. Just compare players to each other. Most people would agree Dark has been the better player for quite a while. | ||
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zakadar
Germany409 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On April 05 2016 20:01 Big J wrote: Last GSL: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2015_Global_StarCraft_II_League_Season_3/Code_S 3 Terrans in the Ro8. One of them is Gumiho. Last season proleague: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2015_Proleague/Statistics Carrying MVP with the best Terran winrate (9-3) in that proleague season. Dark is overrated. He is only being hyped so much because all the previous great Zergs either suck balls at the moment - soO, ByuL, Rogue, Soulkey or are plainly gone (you-know-who). He isn't bad, but if he wins that SSL season it is because the tournament was held way too early in LotV when noone had a clue about the game and a somewhat random sample of players, that aren't on top in Korea anymore already, moved on. So only GSL counts? | ||
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mCon.Hephaistas
Netherlands891 Posts
Ultras are strong but it's all zerg has, it's defend until you get them out or do an allin | ||
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Hider
Denmark9411 Posts
i wouldnt cry if chitinous were still reduced by 1 armor but hots ultras were garbage You mean the unit that was a stable part of the Zerg late game composition was garbage? And where terran was in the same boat as they tried to get a lead before Ultras were out. Maybe you were thinking of WOL Ultras that did 15 less damage vs light.... But even then, Ultralisks were still commonly used as a hive opener before switching into Broods. Yeh, HOTS ultras were fine. Blizzard just wanted an amove-unit to uber hardcounter bio in order to force terran into different compositions. Unfortunately Liberators and Ghosts are not against Zerg late game in an even game. In order for late game to be balanced, then terran must - per definition - also have very strong hardcounters that are somewhat easy to use against Ultralisks. Otherwise the game design/balance is very assymetrical. | ||
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mCon.Hephaistas
Netherlands891 Posts
On April 05 2016 21:43 Hider wrote: You mean the unit that was a stable part of the Zerg late game composition was garbage? And where terran was in the same boat as they tried to get a lead before Ultras were out. Maybe you were thinking of WOL Ultras that did 15 less damage vs light.... But even then, Ultralisks were still commonly used as a hive opener before switching into Broods. Yeh, HOTS ultras were fine. Blizzard just wanted an amove-unit to uber hardcounter bio in order to force terran into different compositions. Unfortunately Liberators and Ghosts are not against Zerg late game in an even game. In order for late game to be balanced, then terran must - per definition - also have very strong hardcounters that are somewhat easy to use against Ultralisks. Otherwise the game design/balance is very assymetrical. Even game is when terran puts all their resources in trying to kill zerg before lategame while zerg invests their resources teching up? Ofcourse Terran is screwed on low tech units vs ultras if they don't cripple the Zerg in time. Terran is extremely strong in the midgame atm, and that's why most Terrans play to win in the midgame. If you want bio being able to be a counter to ultras you have to make Zerg midgame a lot stronger then it currently is. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On April 05 2016 20:01 Big J wrote: Last GSL: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2015_Global_StarCraft_II_League_Season_3/Code_S 3 Terrans in the Ro8. One of them is Gumiho. Last season proleague: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2015_Proleague/Statistics Carrying MVP with the best Terran winrate (9-3) in that proleague season. Dark is overrated. He is only being hyped so much because all the previous great Zergs either suck balls at the moment - soO, ByuL, Rogue, Soulkey or are plainly gone (you-know-who). He isn't bad, but if he wins that SSL season it is because the tournament was held way too early in LotV when noone had a clue about the game and a somewhat random sample of players, that aren't on top in Korea anymore already, moved on. Dark isn't overrated. He is the clear SKT ace, that alone should show you how wrong your statement is tbh. He will probably win SSL and make it far in GSL, being extremely strong in proleague. Really not much else you can do as a player^^ | ||
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Elentos
55561 Posts
On April 05 2016 22:10 mCon.Hephaistas wrote: Even game is when terran puts all their resources in trying to kill zerg before lategame while zerg invests their resources teching up? Ofcourse Terran is screwed on low tech units vs ultras if they don't cripple the Zerg in time. Terran is extremely strong in the midgame atm, and that's why most Terrans play to win in the midgame. If you want bio being able to be a counter to ultras you have to make Zerg midgame a lot stronger then it currently is. Terrans also play to win in the midgame because the lategame is tedious to play (and probably slightly Zerg favored). I wouldn't really mind buffing Zerg's midgame - preferably for ling/bane styles with PvZ in mind - in favor of changing the strength of chitinous plating. The buff to chitinous plating coinciding with a marauder nerf was a bit much. As a Terran I can't help but laugh when I see 3/3 marauders desperately trying to tickle ultras to death. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9411 Posts
On April 05 2016 22:10 mCon.Hephaistas wrote: Even game is when terran puts all their resources in trying to kill zerg before lategame while zerg invests their resources teching up? Ofcourse Terran is screwed on low tech units vs ultras if they don't cripple the Zerg in time. Terran is extremely strong in the midgame atm, and that's why most Terrans play to win in the midgame. If you want bio being able to be a counter to ultras you have to make Zerg midgame a lot stronger then it currently is. That wasn't what I said. What I said was that if you want Ultralisk to hard counter bio as bad as it currently does and with such ease in terms of unit control, then terran must have an addequate response to Ultralisks. And the problem with both Ghosts and Liberators is that (a) they are much harder to control and (b) they are soft-counters (given that zerg mixes in Infestors and Corrupters). If you look at BW, Zerg hive also beat bio play, however tanks + vultures countered Zerg ground units. So terran could efficiently transition into mech play. Right now it makes no sense not to go "all in" the midgame because you cannot tech to Ghost while playing passively and turtle. You can only win with Ghosts if you already have a lead in the midgame. That way of "balancing" the game is atrocious because it removes any type of comeback potential for terran. If Zerg at any point in time in the late game gets "even" he can win with 100% guaranteed a-move. | ||
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mCon.Hephaistas
Netherlands891 Posts
On April 05 2016 22:30 Hider wrote: That wasn't what I said. What I said was that if you want Ultralisk to hard counter bio as bad as it currently does and with such ease in terms of unit control, then terran must have an addequate response to Ultralisks. And the problem with both Ghosts and Liberators is that (a) they are much harder to control and (b) they are soft-counters (given that zerg mixes in Infestors and Corrupters). If you look at BW, Zerg hive also beat bio play, however tanks + vultures countered Zerg ground units. So terran could efficiently transition into mech play. Right now it makes no sense not to go "all in" the midgame because you cannot tech to Ghost while playing passively and turtle. You can only win with Ghosts if you already have a lead in the midgame. That way of "balancing" the game is atrocious because it removes any type of comeback potential for terran. If Zerg at any point in time in the late game gets "even" he can win with 100% guaranteed a-move. That is what i said though, Terran do gamble to win in the midgame because they are stronger in the midgame then in the lategame. So as I said if you want Terran to be able to deal with Zerg lategame easier then Zerg also needs a buff to deal with Terran midgame better. The matchup currently is decently balanced because Terran has more tools to outplay Zerg in the midgame. Shitty design? Yeah maybe. Anyway I've seen both Zergs and Terrans win in the mid and lategame so the matchup isn't in terrible shape. Gumiho almost beat the best Zerg in the world, so kudos to him. | ||
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Silvana
3713 Posts
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Koromon
United States304 Posts
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Hider
Denmark9411 Posts
That is what i said though, Terran do gamble to win in the midgame because they are stronger in the midgame then in the lategame. Yeh and my point was that I am OK with Ultralisks counterting bio play. But it's done in the absolute wrong way. First of, I would not touch Ultralisks core stats. If anything I am more inclined the "straight up battle"-stats and instead make 2 "buffs": 1. Moves faster 2. Lower model size. Secondly, I would make sure that either the Viper or Infestor synergized heavily with the Ultralisk in order to reward micro and make sure that the spellcaster + Ultralisk combo (with good control) functioned as a strong counter to bio play in late game. Thirdly, I would tweak the Liberator so it was slightly nerfed vs non-massive units and buffed vs massive units in order to give it a positional hard counter against Ultralisks. 4th, I would make sure that terarn ground has a counter to mass Corrupters/Vipers (that otherwise would counter Liberators). This way of balancing the game would be much more interesting in terms of micro and overall more fair both races. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9411 Posts
Dark is overrated. He is only being hyped so much because all the previous great Zergs either suck balls at the moment - soO, ByuL, Rogue, Soulkey or are plainly gone (you-know-who). He isn't bad, but if he wins that SSL season it is because the tournament was held way too early in LotV when noone had a clue about the game and a somewhat random sample of players, that aren't on top in Korea anymore already, moved on. Zest is probably the best player in the world, but righter after is Dark. Not sure who else you could justify to put in second place. With regards to Ty, I think the reason he looked so good for the first 3 months of LOTV was that his tankivac control was by far the best at the time. Early on most terrans hadn't practiced it enough and since it has a very high skill cap, you can do very well if your better than your peers. However, it feels to me that a lot of terrans has since catched up and he is no longer significantly ahead. It also seems to me that he is suffering from some build order problems, where he often gets sigfificantly behind after the early game. | ||
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nick00bot
326 Posts
Gumiho was really close to winning this game, but Dark pushed at the exact right time, it's not that his ultras were broken. Gumi had invested a ton into CCs & 3/3 (which wasn't finished), didn't have amazing production (1 starport and fact), had no ghosts, and very few medivacs. If dark had waited thirty seconds he would of lost fair and square | ||
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Phredxor
New Zealand15076 Posts
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Jacmert
Canada1709 Posts
On April 05 2016 19:05 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: Someone's got a Canadian flag in the crowd. Good on them :D Haha, that would be me! :D | ||
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