You know, after how soO played in GSL, I'd say it's not impossible for Ryung to win that game. Just please don't let it be another 30 minute air mech turtle game.
On April 05 2016 17:06 Elentos wrote: You know, after how soO played in GSL, I'd say it's not impossible for Ryung to win that game. Just please don't let it be another 30 minute air mech turtle game.
That's why I got Ryung in my FPL team
Unless Ryung wins, I think this is gonna be a 3-0 sweep.
Yeah add in soOjwa pretty much shit the bed in his GSL group shows he might be vulnerable to Ryung if he has some solid play ready. Departure > Inno easily as well
On April 05 2016 18:10 Heartland wrote: what the hell is Discord and why am I too old to know about it?
Haha, it is a chat based team speak basically. Is channels to go into to voice chat and also chat channels which is designed like skype. It is "ok", it is still technically in beta so there is issues with its voice channels lagging/cutting out. However it is a skype killer potentially, for nerds anyway.
TL made one as we removed our TL TeamSpeak servers and use it instead, check it out if you ever want to discuss nerd stuff :D
On April 05 2016 18:10 Heartland wrote: what the hell is Discord and why am I too old to know about it?
Haha, it is a chat based team speak basically. Is channels to go into to voice chat and also chat channels which is designed like skype. It is "ok", it is still technically in beta so there is issues with its voice channels lagging/cutting out. However it is a skype killer potentially, for nerds anyway.
TL made one as we removed our TL TeamSpeak servers and use it instead, check it out if you ever want to discuss nerd stuff :D
On April 05 2016 18:23 Heartland wrote: yeah, why no static defence or something?
he has no money to spam spores around hatcheries, soO's plan here was let Ryung suicide into concave and then remax on lair instead of trying to tech to hive. Not like he had other options though
On April 05 2016 18:25 brickrd wrote: i know wolf's job is to commentate on the games, but sometimes listening to the smug way he criticizes the players is kind of annoying
I feel that way too sometimes. I don't think he means it that way though, it comes out sounding a lot more smug than it's supposed to be. That's just speculation though.
I'm really happy for Ryung while being really sad about soO. I really, really want soO to become absolutely top tier again.
On April 05 2016 18:42 Charoisaur wrote: why was the game so close after the failed nydus and all the damage terran did with his medanks. sometimes I don't understand this game.
On April 05 2016 18:42 Rainmansc wrote: So for all the forum hero's that think you can tech to ultra when opening roach/ravager these days. Watch this game.
but you can, DeParture was fine playing macro after a failed nydus and then he just suicided all ravagers onto medivac/marauder
On April 05 2016 18:42 Charoisaur wrote: why was the game so close after the failed nydus and all the damage terran did with his medanks. sometimes I don't understand this game.
because Innovation played 2 base to achieve all of that, which we know since 2012 is not a good way to keep up with a zerg.
On April 05 2016 18:42 Rainmansc wrote: So for all the forum hero's that think you can tech to ultra when opening roach/ravager these days. Watch this game.
On April 05 2016 18:42 Rainmansc wrote: So for all the forum hero's that think you can tech to ultra when opening roach/ravager these days. Watch this game.
He had the chance to go ultras after he killed INnoVation's army when INno pushed without combat shields. Instead he went across the map and ran to his death, even wasting money on a nydus that got killed instantly.
On April 05 2016 18:42 Charoisaur wrote: why was the game so close after the failed nydus and all the damage terran did with his medanks. sometimes I don't understand this game.
This game looked like an overextension into an even bigger overextension to me
On April 05 2016 18:42 Charoisaur wrote: why was the game so close after the failed nydus and all the damage terran did with his medanks. sometimes I don't understand this game.
inno pushed without combat shields and got all his tanks flanked, so it was just shitty marines/very few marauders vs mass roach/ravager.
I'm not sure what makes R/R comp viable against terran... I haven't seen anyone convincingly pull it off. Without infestors it's a worthless comp against terrans who can actually micro - aka most PL terrans.
On April 05 2016 18:42 Rainmansc wrote: So for all the forum hero's that think you can tech to ultra when opening roach/ravager these days. Watch this game.
If anything this game proved you can. Departure just chose to throw instead.
On April 05 2016 18:44 FTLMODs wrote: I'm not sure what makes R/R comp viable against terran... I haven't seen anyone convincingly pull it off. Without infestors it's a worthless comp against terrans who can actually micro - aka most PL terrans.
On April 05 2016 18:44 FTLMODs wrote: I'm not sure what makes R/R comp viable against terran... I haven't seen anyone convincingly pull it off. Without infestors it's a worthless comp against terrans who can actually micro - aka most PL terrans.
it has a lot of dps + you can target tanks and liberators, it's really the only comp you can play in ZvT before hive
On April 05 2016 18:44 FTLMODs wrote: I'm not sure what makes R/R comp viable against terran... I haven't seen anyone convincingly pull it off. Without infestors it's a worthless comp against terrans who can actually micro - aka most PL terrans.
it looks better than ling bane muta
This i don't agree with, with roach/ravager what is your end game? Add Hydra/Lurker? With Muta Ling Bane you can at least play a turtle style and just get your Ultra out as fast as possible whilst defending. Roach/Ravager forces you to win the game before hive or you are to far behind on upgrades or anything to get Ultras out to do anything.
On April 05 2016 18:44 FTLMODs wrote: I'm not sure what makes R/R comp viable against terran... I haven't seen anyone convincingly pull it off. Without infestors it's a worthless comp against terrans who can actually micro - aka most PL terrans.
it looks better than ling bane muta
This i don't agree with, with roach/ravager what is your end game? Add Hydra/Lurker? With Muta Ling Bane you can at least play a turtle style and just get your Ultra out as fast as possible whilst defending. Roach/Ravager forces you to win the game before hive or you are to far behind on upgrades or anything to get Ultras out to do anything.
no you cant, with ling bane muta you die to the very first tank push, your lategame is always the same: hive->ultra+adrenal
On April 05 2016 18:44 FTLMODs wrote: I'm not sure what makes R/R comp viable against terran... I haven't seen anyone convincingly pull it off. Without infestors it's a worthless comp against terrans who can actually micro - aka most PL terrans.
it looks better than ling bane muta
This i don't agree with, with roach/ravager what is your end game? Add Hydra/Lurker? With Muta Ling Bane you can at least play a turtle style and just get your Ultra out as fast as possible whilst defending. Roach/Ravager forces you to win the game before hive or you are to far behind on upgrades or anything to get Ultras out to do anything.
the only upgrade you need for ultras to roflstomp bio is chitinous plating
On April 05 2016 18:44 FTLMODs wrote: I'm not sure what makes R/R comp viable against terran... I haven't seen anyone convincingly pull it off. Without infestors it's a worthless comp against terrans who can actually micro - aka most PL terrans.
it looks better than ling bane muta
This i don't agree with, with roach/ravager what is your end game? Add Hydra/Lurker? With Muta Ling Bane you can at least play a turtle style and just get your Ultra out as fast as possible whilst defending. Roach/Ravager forces you to win the game before hive or you are to far behind on upgrades or anything to get Ultras out to do anything.
The attack upgrades for ultras aren't that important, it's all about the armor which you'll get either way. LBM just isn't as effective anymore and your mutas can get shut down hard by liberators.
On April 05 2016 19:00 Pandemona wrote: This game is true LOTV. Fighting everywhere!
Maru and Rain gave me games like this in HotS so I'm not convinced.
Yeah after 10 minutes of nothing but macro. You can see the exact same in Maru vs Dear the best games ever on Frost back in WCS. However first the first 7 minutes nothing happened, then widow mine drops start after 7th minute. In LOTV as you know, it starts early
On April 05 2016 19:00 Pandemona wrote: This game is true LOTV. Fighting everywhere!
Maru and Rain gave me games like this in HotS so I'm not convinced.
Yeah after 10 minutes of nothing but macro. You can see the exact same in Maru vs Dear the best games ever on Frost back in WCS. However first the first 7 minutes nothing happened, then widow mine drops start after 7th minute. In LOTV as you know, it starts early
I still don't understand why 5-10 starcraft minutes of build up were such a problem to some. I'm watching football matches in which nothing is happening for 30 mins and I much prefer them over some action-abomination like futsal.
On April 05 2016 19:00 Pandemona wrote: This game is true LOTV. Fighting everywhere!
Maru and Rain gave me games like this in HotS so I'm not convinced.
Yeah after 10 minutes of nothing but macro. You can see the exact same in Maru vs Dear the best games ever on Frost back in WCS. However first the first 7 minutes nothing happened, then widow mine drops start after 7th minute. In LOTV as you know, it starts early
I still don't understand why 5-10 starcraft minutes of build up were such a problem to some. I'm watching football matches in which nothing is happening for 30 mins and I much prefer them over some action-abomination like futsal.
I didn't say it was a problem, just said that is what happened. That is why i think lotv is good fun because it is constant action. Everyone loves Tastosis down time for first 5-10 minutes of a game in hots/wol
On April 05 2016 19:05 Elentos wrote: Wolf continuing to claim that Forte was anywhere close to winning that game against Bomber.
If he places his tank first But too bad bomber is faster
But even if he placed his tanks first he was down 50 supply the entire time. Claiming that he was anywhere close to a position to win is just delusional.
i went back and played a game of hots and its incredible how fucking long the first 2 minutes of the game felt. to each his own but i can't imagine what's bad about not having to watch worker micro and expansions while bad casters talk about the 1980s
On April 05 2016 19:00 Pandemona wrote: This game is true LOTV. Fighting everywhere!
Maru and Rain gave me games like this in HotS so I'm not convinced.
Yeah after 10 minutes of nothing but macro. You can see the exact same in Maru vs Dear the best games ever on Frost back in WCS. However first the first 7 minutes nothing happened, then widow mine drops start after 7th minute. In LOTV as you know, it starts early
I still don't understand why 5-10 starcraft minutes of build up were such a problem to some. I'm watching football matches in which nothing is happening for 30 mins and I much prefer them over some action-abomination like futsal.
in my opinion nothing exciting happens in football for about 87 minutes of most games. this makes it one of the least interesting sports for me to watch, but i'm sure if you actually know stuff about football, it's a lot more exciting. your point stands that a sport being slow/not constant action clearly does not deter people from watching it, considering the amount of people who enjoy watching football, and even in esports, MOBA games where you watch people combat NPCs for most of the game.
ByuL is good against mech but the real reason TY lost that game was forgetting liberator range. Note to everyone, if you gonna go triple starport, don't forget liberator range.
On April 05 2016 19:08 brickrd wrote: i went back and played a game of hots and its incredible how fucking long the first 2 minutes of the game felt. to each his own but i can't imagine what's bad about not having to watch worker micro and expansions while bad casters talk about the 1980s
On April 05 2016 19:08 brickrd wrote: i went back and played a game of hots and its incredible how fucking long the first 2 minutes of the game felt. to each his own but i can't imagine what's bad about not having to watch worker micro and expansions while bad casters talk about the 1980s
i miss cheese
well according to ladder protoss 15 pool with 6 lings into double expand is hardcore cheese
if KSS came out today, I wonder if people would bitch about it being too creative. I mean, it has backdoor rocks, an unusual main/nat/3rd set up exploitable lib positions.
On April 05 2016 19:08 brickrd wrote: i went back and played a game of hots and its incredible how fucking long the first 2 minutes of the game felt. to each his own but i can't imagine what's bad about not having to watch worker micro and expansions while bad casters talk about the 1980s
i miss cheese
well according to ladder protoss 15 pool with 6 lings into double expand is hardcore cheese
i used to 13pool and kill 17gate openings for all of LotV beta, fun times
Dark is best player in SKT by a long way at the moment, proven in his S2SL run, pretty clear champion in the making there. He should be ace.
For MVP, guess they might have a specific map build in check, but you would think Ryung after how smoothly he played, but Gumiho also should great play vs Myungsik too.
i wish we could replace korhal carnage, endion and dusk towers with these 3 maps. i always want new maps but it's been long enough that playing these would be fun again
On April 05 2016 19:19 Pandemona wrote: Dark is best player in SKT by a long way at the moment, proven in his S2SL run, pretty clear champion in the making there. He should be ace.
For MVP, guess they might have a specific map build in check, but you would think Ryung after how smoothly he played, but Gumiho also should great play vs Myungsik too.
when you give female players visibility and a chance to compete on a major team it's a way to encourage women to get interested in playing and following the game
the reason there are few female players in games like starcraft is not because they're genetically not as good, it's because fewer women stay interested in the game due to gaming culture being often quite nasty to women. it's the same exact thing as programs to get women involved in fields like math and science where they are desperately needed
when you give female players visibility and a chance to compete on a major team it's a way to encourage women to get interested in playing and following the game
the reason there are few female players in games like starcraft is not because they're genetically not as good, it's because fewer women stay interested in the game due to gaming culture being often quite nasty to women. it's the same exact thing as programs to get women involved in fields like math and science where they are desperately needed
I'd say it's just PR/eye candy. I remember hearing they were like gold level when they were announced. If they wanted real female Progamers they would have kept Aphrodite, she was the best by far.
when you give female players visibility and a chance to compete on a major team it's a way to encourage women to get interested in playing and following the game
the reason there are few female players in games like starcraft is not because they're genetically not as good, it's because fewer women stay interested in the game due to gaming culture being often quite nasty to women. it's the same exact thing as programs to get women involved in fields like math and science where they are desperately needed
The problem is these girls don't compete, iirc Bona is like gold/plat, and they're hardly visible considering most people in this thread didn't even know who she was.
On April 05 2016 19:34 Pandemona wrote: Overgrowth haha <3 what a baller map. This caused so much chaos due to the gold and the open 3rd.
I don't know why exactly but I never really liked it. Didn't like playing on it and didn't like watching it either Let's see if it looks better in LotV
On April 05 2016 19:34 Pandemona wrote: Overgrowth haha <3 what a baller map. This caused so much chaos due to the gold and the open 3rd.
I don't know why exactly but I never really liked it. Didn't like playing on it and didn't like watching it either Let's see if it looks better in LotV
I just want to see how fast Bomber can max out on it in LotV
On April 05 2016 19:34 Pandemona wrote: Overgrowth haha <3 what a baller map. This caused so much chaos due to the gold and the open 3rd.
I don't know why exactly but I never really liked it. Didn't like playing on it and didn't like watching it either Let's see if it looks better in LotV
what the hell is that push? 2 tanks and a bunch of hellions slowly rolling cross map... Gumiho just can't macro up without attacking, can he? Even if he hasn't got the units to actually attack he still just does it
does +1 attack for roaches and ravagers have an important effect on how many shots it takes to kill marines/tanks/etc? i always feel like ranged attack into hive and ultras is quite awkward, personally i either go +2 range and mass mass roach/ravager or i open melee attack and use ravagers only to transition
On April 05 2016 19:42 Yello wrote: what the hell is that push? 2 tanks and a bunch of hellions slowly rolling cross map... Gumiho just can't macro up without attacking, can he? Even if he hasn't got the units to actually attack he still just does it
Wouldve been strong if he set up the tanks+liberators properly but he messed it up
On April 05 2016 19:42 Yello wrote: what the hell is that push? 2 tanks and a bunch of hellions slowly rolling cross map... Gumiho just can't macro up without attacking, can he? Even if he hasn't got the units to actually attack he still just does it
If your hands are already sweating, might as well put them to use
lol that terrans are still trying to act like ultras are OP
try playing zerg and understand how much it actually costs to get to hive and hive upgrades, and lose 20 games because your ultras are in production while bio is camping your rally lines
i wouldnt cry if chitinous were still reduced by 1 armor but hots ultras were garbage
On April 05 2016 19:50 brickrd wrote: lol that terrans are still trying to act like ultras are OP
try playing zerg and understand how much it actually costs to get to hive and hive upgrades, and lose 20 games because your ultras are in production while bio is camping your rally lines
i wouldnt cry if chitinous were still reduced by 1 armor but hots ultras were garbage
if bio is camping your rally lines you deserve to be losing anyway
On April 05 2016 19:50 Ej_ wrote: lol Dark beats another tier 2 player and suddenly ultralisks are broken
Dark is overrated and Gumiho was a top 3 Terran at the end of HotS. Ultralisks are stupid, but that one is on Gumiho. He had all the time in the world to make extra starports or ghosts or do it like Polt with extra factories. He chose to make extra marines and CCs.
On April 05 2016 19:50 brickrd wrote: lol that terrans are still trying to act like ultras are OP
try playing zerg and understand how much it actually costs to get to hive and hive upgrades, and lose 20 games because your ultras are in production while bio is camping your rally lines
i wouldnt cry if chitinous were still reduced by 1 armor but hots ultras were garbage
ultras are hard to get yes. but once you have them zerg is heavily favored. I don't like that "kill him before he gets there design"
would have liked to see some gumi ghosts... or at least, he had to be more aggressive even before the dual quad drops (only one of which even landed...)
- have to hand it to dark though. it seems like he had the right amount of defense i guess...
Dark is overrated. He is only being hyped so much because all the previous great Zergs either suck balls at the moment - soO, ByuL, Rogue, Soulkey or are plainly gone (you-know-who). He isn't bad, but if he wins that SSL season it is because the tournament was held way too early in LotV when noone had a clue about the game and a somewhat random sample of players, that aren't on top in Korea anymore already, moved on.
Dark is overrated. He is only being hyped so much because all the previous great Zergs either suck balls at the moment - soO, ByuL, Rogue, Soulkey or are plainly gone (you-know-who). He isn't bad, but if he wins that SSL season it is because the tournament was held way too early in LotV when noone had a clue about the game and just a somewhat random sample of players that aren't on top in Korea anymore already moved on.
right so every Zerg sucks but the one that doesnt suck is overrated
wont even comment on relevance of your hots career to your lotv results
Dark is overrated. He is only being hyped so much because all the previous great Zergs either suck balls at the moment - soO, ByuL, Rogue, Soulkey or are plainly gone (you-know-who). He isn't bad, but if he wins that SSL season it is because the tournament was held way too early in LotV when noone had a clue about the game and just a somewhat random sample of players that aren't on top in Korea anymore already moved on.
right so every Zerg sucks but the one that doesnt suck is overrated
wont even comment on relevance of your hots career to your lotv results
Calling people overrated (or underrated) is useless anyway. Just compare players to each other. Most people would agree Dark has been the better player for quite a while.
Dark is overrated. He is only being hyped so much because all the previous great Zergs either suck balls at the moment - soO, ByuL, Rogue, Soulkey or are plainly gone (you-know-who). He isn't bad, but if he wins that SSL season it is because the tournament was held way too early in LotV when noone had a clue about the game and a somewhat random sample of players, that aren't on top in Korea anymore already, moved on.
i wouldnt cry if chitinous were still reduced by 1 armor but hots ultras were garbage
You mean the unit that was a stable part of the Zerg late game composition was garbage? And where terran was in the same boat as they tried to get a lead before Ultras were out. Maybe you were thinking of WOL Ultras that did 15 less damage vs light.... But even then, Ultralisks were still commonly used as a hive opener before switching into Broods.
Yeh, HOTS ultras were fine. Blizzard just wanted an amove-unit to uber hardcounter bio in order to force terran into different compositions. Unfortunately Liberators and Ghosts are not against Zerg late game in an even game.
In order for late game to be balanced, then terran must - per definition - also have very strong hardcounters that are somewhat easy to use against Ultralisks. Otherwise the game design/balance is very assymetrical.
i wouldnt cry if chitinous were still reduced by 1 armor but hots ultras were garbage
You mean the unit that was a stable part of the Zerg late game composition was garbage? And where terran was in the same boat as they tried to get a lead before Ultras were out. Maybe you were thinking of WOL Ultras that did 15 less damage vs light.... But even then, Ultralisks were still commonly used as a hive opener before switching into Broods.
Yeh, HOTS ultras were fine. Blizzard just wanted an amove-unit to uber hardcounter bio in order to force terran into different compositions. Unfortunately Liberators and Ghosts are not against Zerg late game in an even game.
In order for late game to be balanced, then terran must - per definition - also have very strong hardcounters that are somewhat easy to use against Ultralisks. Otherwise the game design/balance is very assymetrical.
Even game is when terran puts all their resources in trying to kill zerg before lategame while zerg invests their resources teching up? Ofcourse Terran is screwed on low tech units vs ultras if they don't cripple the Zerg in time.
Terran is extremely strong in the midgame atm, and that's why most Terrans play to win in the midgame.
If you want bio being able to be a counter to ultras you have to make Zerg midgame a lot stronger then it currently is.
Dark is overrated. He is only being hyped so much because all the previous great Zergs either suck balls at the moment - soO, ByuL, Rogue, Soulkey or are plainly gone (you-know-who). He isn't bad, but if he wins that SSL season it is because the tournament was held way too early in LotV when noone had a clue about the game and a somewhat random sample of players, that aren't on top in Korea anymore already, moved on.
Dark isn't overrated. He is the clear SKT ace, that alone should show you how wrong your statement is tbh. He will probably win SSL and make it far in GSL, being extremely strong in proleague. Really not much else you can do as a player^^
i wouldnt cry if chitinous were still reduced by 1 armor but hots ultras were garbage
You mean the unit that was a stable part of the Zerg late game composition was garbage? And where terran was in the same boat as they tried to get a lead before Ultras were out. Maybe you were thinking of WOL Ultras that did 15 less damage vs light.... But even then, Ultralisks were still commonly used as a hive opener before switching into Broods.
Yeh, HOTS ultras were fine. Blizzard just wanted an amove-unit to uber hardcounter bio in order to force terran into different compositions. Unfortunately Liberators and Ghosts are not against Zerg late game in an even game.
In order for late game to be balanced, then terran must - per definition - also have very strong hardcounters that are somewhat easy to use against Ultralisks. Otherwise the game design/balance is very assymetrical.
Even game is when terran puts all their resources in trying to kill zerg before lategame while zerg invests their resources teching up? Ofcourse Terran is screwed on low tech units vs ultras if they don't cripple the Zerg in time.
Terran is extremely strong in the midgame atm, and that's why most Terrans play to win in the midgame.
If you want bio being able to be a counter to ultras you have to make Zerg midgame a lot stronger then it currently is.
Terrans also play to win in the midgame because the lategame is tedious to play (and probably slightly Zerg favored). I wouldn't really mind buffing Zerg's midgame - preferably for ling/bane styles with PvZ in mind - in favor of changing the strength of chitinous plating.
The buff to chitinous plating coinciding with a marauder nerf was a bit much. As a Terran I can't help but laugh when I see 3/3 marauders desperately trying to tickle ultras to death.
i wouldnt cry if chitinous were still reduced by 1 armor but hots ultras were garbage
You mean the unit that was a stable part of the Zerg late game composition was garbage? And where terran was in the same boat as they tried to get a lead before Ultras were out. Maybe you were thinking of WOL Ultras that did 15 less damage vs light.... But even then, Ultralisks were still commonly used as a hive opener before switching into Broods.
Yeh, HOTS ultras were fine. Blizzard just wanted an amove-unit to uber hardcounter bio in order to force terran into different compositions. Unfortunately Liberators and Ghosts are not against Zerg late game in an even game.
In order for late game to be balanced, then terran must - per definition - also have very strong hardcounters that are somewhat easy to use against Ultralisks. Otherwise the game design/balance is very assymetrical.
Even game is when terran puts all their resources in trying to kill zerg before lategame while zerg invests their resources teching up? Ofcourse Terran is screwed on low tech units vs ultras if they don't cripple the Zerg in time.
Terran is extremely strong in the midgame atm, and that's why most Terrans play to win in the midgame.
If you want bio being able to be a counter to ultras you have to make Zerg midgame a lot stronger then it currently is.
That wasn't what I said. What I said was that if you want Ultralisk to hard counter bio as bad as it currently does and with such ease in terms of unit control, then terran must have an addequate response to Ultralisks.
And the problem with both Ghosts and Liberators is that (a) they are much harder to control and (b) they are soft-counters (given that zerg mixes in Infestors and Corrupters).
If you look at BW, Zerg hive also beat bio play, however tanks + vultures countered Zerg ground units. So terran could efficiently transition into mech play.
Right now it makes no sense not to go "all in" the midgame because you cannot tech to Ghost while playing passively and turtle. You can only win with Ghosts if you already have a lead in the midgame.
That way of "balancing" the game is atrocious because it removes any type of comeback potential for terran. If Zerg at any point in time in the late game gets "even" he can win with 100% guaranteed a-move.
i wouldnt cry if chitinous were still reduced by 1 armor but hots ultras were garbage
You mean the unit that was a stable part of the Zerg late game composition was garbage? And where terran was in the same boat as they tried to get a lead before Ultras were out. Maybe you were thinking of WOL Ultras that did 15 less damage vs light.... But even then, Ultralisks were still commonly used as a hive opener before switching into Broods.
Yeh, HOTS ultras were fine. Blizzard just wanted an amove-unit to uber hardcounter bio in order to force terran into different compositions. Unfortunately Liberators and Ghosts are not against Zerg late game in an even game.
In order for late game to be balanced, then terran must - per definition - also have very strong hardcounters that are somewhat easy to use against Ultralisks. Otherwise the game design/balance is very assymetrical.
Even game is when terran puts all their resources in trying to kill zerg before lategame while zerg invests their resources teching up? Ofcourse Terran is screwed on low tech units vs ultras if they don't cripple the Zerg in time.
Terran is extremely strong in the midgame atm, and that's why most Terrans play to win in the midgame.
If you want bio being able to be a counter to ultras you have to make Zerg midgame a lot stronger then it currently is.
That wasn't what I said. What I said was that if you want Ultralisk to hard counter bio as bad as it currently does and with such ease in terms of unit control, then terran must have an addequate response to Ultralisks.
And the problem with both Ghosts and Liberators is that (a) they are much harder to control and (b) they are soft-counters (given that zerg mixes in Infestors and Corrupters).
If you look at BW, Zerg hive also beat bio play, however tanks + vultures countered Zerg ground units. So terran could efficiently transition into mech play.
Right now it makes no sense not to go "all in" the midgame because you cannot tech to Ghost while playing passively and turtle. You can only win with Ghosts if you already have a lead in the midgame.
That way of "balancing" the game is atrocious because it removes any type of comeback potential for terran. If Zerg at any point in time in the late game gets "even" he can win with 100% guaranteed a-move.
That is what i said though, Terran do gamble to win in the midgame because they are stronger in the midgame then in the lategame. So as I said if you want Terran to be able to deal with Zerg lategame easier then Zerg also needs a buff to deal with Terran midgame better. The matchup currently is decently balanced because Terran has more tools to outplay Zerg in the midgame. Shitty design? Yeah maybe.
Anyway I've seen both Zergs and Terrans win in the mid and lategame so the matchup isn't in terrible shape. Gumiho almost beat the best Zerg in the world, so kudos to him.
That is what i said though, Terran do gamble to win in the midgame because they are stronger in the midgame then in the lategame.
Yeh and my point was that I am OK with Ultralisks counterting bio play. But it's done in the absolute wrong way.
First of, I would not touch Ultralisks core stats. If anything I am more inclined the "straight up battle"-stats and instead make 2 "buffs":
1. Moves faster 2. Lower model size.
Secondly, I would make sure that either the Viper or Infestor synergized heavily with the Ultralisk in order to reward micro and make sure that the spellcaster + Ultralisk combo (with good control) functioned as a strong counter to bio play in late game.
Thirdly, I would tweak the Liberator so it was slightly nerfed vs non-massive units and buffed vs massive units in order to give it a positional hard counter against Ultralisks.
4th, I would make sure that terarn ground has a counter to mass Corrupters/Vipers (that otherwise would counter Liberators).
This way of balancing the game would be much more interesting in terms of micro and overall more fair both races.
Dark is overrated. He is only being hyped so much because all the previous great Zergs either suck balls at the moment - soO, ByuL, Rogue, Soulkey or are plainly gone (you-know-who). He isn't bad, but if he wins that SSL season it is because the tournament was held way too early in LotV when noone had a clue about the game and a somewhat random sample of players, that aren't on top in Korea anymore already, moved on.
Zest is probably the best player in the world, but righter after is Dark. Not sure who else you could justify to put in second place.
With regards to Ty, I think the reason he looked so good for the first 3 months of LOTV was that his tankivac control was by far the best at the time. Early on most terrans hadn't practiced it enough and since it has a very high skill cap, you can do very well if your better than your peers. However, it feels to me that a lot of terrans has since catched up and he is no longer significantly ahead.
It also seems to me that he is suffering from some build order problems, where he often gets sigfificantly behind after the early game.
Everyone whining about ultras this game is forgetting the fact that Gumi had 5 bases and a ghost academy, and yet never built a ghost. how do you expect to beat ultra corruptor without ghosts? That's like staying on roach hydra and complaining about losing to immortals.
Gumiho was really close to winning this game, but Dark pushed at the exact right time, it's not that his ultras were broken. Gumi had invested a ton into CCs & 3/3 (which wasn't finished), didn't have amazing production (1 starport and fact), had no ghosts, and very few medivacs. If dark had waited thirty seconds he would of lost fair and square
I'm pretty sure Dark would have still won that fight comfortably if he waited 30 secs. Gumi needed to do something before Dark reteched to Hive and could continue with Ultras. He had plenty of time to make libs and do some real damage but decided to turtle up.
On April 06 2016 03:28 nick00bot wrote: Everyone whining about ultras this game is forgetting the fact that Gumi had 5 bases and a ghost academy, and yet never built a ghost. how do you expect to beat ultra corruptor without ghosts? That's like staying on roach hydra and complaining about losing to immortals.
Gumiho was really close to winning this game, but Dark pushed at the exact right time, it's not that his ultras were broken. Gumi had invested a ton into CCs & 3/3 (which wasn't finished), didn't have amazing production (1 starport and fact), had no ghosts, and very few medivacs. If dark had waited thirty seconds he would of lost fair and square
Ghosts has been tried a lot by korean terrans but they don't work because: 1. when zerg is swarming at you with ling bane ultra + FUNGAL! the probability of snipe getting cancelled is incredibly high. 2. even when the snipe goes off it just does 170 damage once and after that the ghost is useless. So if there are still ultras left after the snipe rounds you lose because your standing army is far weaker than normal (because you invested so much into ghost.)
Watch the Byun vs curious series, there you clearly see the problems with ghosts.
the only situation where you want to build ghosts is superlate-game split map scenario when you are turtling behind planetaries and mass liberators.
1. when zerg is swarming at you with ling bane ultra + FUNGAL! the probability of snipe getting cancelled is incredibly high. 2. even when the snipe goes off it just does 170 damage once and after that the ghost is useless. So if there are still ultras left after the snipe rounds you lose because your standing army is far weaker than normal (because you invested so much into ghost.)
1. Is true under a lot of conditions, but much less so in defensive ones. Dark's initial push was mostly just ultras too, the lings came as a flood to wipe out later bases. Gumi had enough of an army that he had enough units to position ghosts behind to avoid fungals anyways. 2. Given that they replace marauders, It's not far weaker since ghosts do about the same against lings than they do. There should be no reason why you should have less marines if you're making ghosts if you have the economy gumiho did, and those are what take out the lings anyways.
EPT
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Azubu.TV | ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/2EGwEAn.png)
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Wolf | ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/lichter/SPLlogos/sktt1.png)
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soO <Frost> 
Ryung
MyuNgSiK <Orbital Shipyard> ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/0XOLNYT.png)
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Game 1 | Game 2 | Game 3 | Game 4 | Ace Match![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/px6sull.png)
But too bad bomber is faster 
