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[WCS] Ro32 Group B - Season 3 2015 - Page 13

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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y0su
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
Finland7871 Posts
August 14 2015 21:02 GMT
#241
shouldn't there be games?
Boucot
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
France15997 Posts
August 14 2015 21:02 GMT
#242
On August 15 2015 06:00 Heartland wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 15 2015 05:59 chipmonklord17 wrote:
On August 15 2015 05:56 Heartland wrote:
On August 15 2015 05:53 chipmonklord17 wrote:
On August 15 2015 05:49 Ej_ wrote:
On August 15 2015 05:47 chipmonklord17 wrote:
On August 15 2015 05:45 Heartland wrote:
On August 15 2015 05:43 chipmonklord17 wrote:
On August 15 2015 05:42 Heartland wrote:
On August 15 2015 05:40 chipmonklord17 wrote:
I still hate the widow mine. I think its one of the worst designed units still in the game


I think exactly the opposite


Really? They're pretty much random and absurdly broken at lower levels. After drilling claws (which I REALLY can't believe is still a thing) a zerg player has 1 second to react to a burrowed mine. As a zerg it feels like there are no countermeasures once the mine count gets high enough. And luckily enough they can be produced two at a time


It gives a lot to the Terran gameplay in terms of space control, how it interacts with bio. But above all I think it's one of the few things in sc2 which allows comebacks, it rewards skill and all those "OOOOOH SHIII!" moments that are just way too few in sc2.

This doesn't mean I don't hate it when a Terran randomly boosts into my mineral lines and all my shit dies though.


I suppose that's where I disagree. At least in TvZ. TvP I can't really comment on but in TvZ it feels like once you've made enough mines you've won. It doesn't take skill to burrow a unit that takes 1 second and then have it get a lucky hit. I think you move them to techlab and remove drilling claws and I'm okay with them as is, but it just feels like they've been made to be too good.

EDIT: My god you can barely tell what's bolded in the new format. Rito TL pls

they are definitely not "too good" vs Zerg, but they are INSANELY frustrating for both sides of the match up


I mean too good in both the balance sense and in the sense that they outclass most of terran's other units. Why build tanks when you can build mines? Why build thors when you can build mines? It feels like mines are too much of a one stop shop for terran with too negligible of a downside. They're fast enough to keep up, quick enough to burrow to defend themselves, hit ground and air, don't splash eachother. They're not BL/Infestor levels of too good, but imo they're far too good to have remained in the game this long without some kind of tweak


You don't build tanks because tanks suck : P Terrans do build Thors, marines, medivacs, marauders and all that other shit. They can easily lose you a game if you get bad hits because Zerg baits them out or snipes them or catches terran in a bad situation

Terrans do build more than just mines, but there are also terrans who build JUST mines from factories. Its completely viable to build marine/mine and nothing else. Hell we've seen exclusively mine/medivac work out. IMO that just shouldn't be the case


In what league?

I remember qxc killing Stephano with mines only on ladder. That was heartbreaking.
Former SC2 writer for Millenium - twitter.com/Boucot
Deathstar
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
9150 Posts
August 14 2015 21:03 GMT
#243
On August 15 2015 06:02 y0su wrote:
shouldn't there be games?



Games? why would we be watching games?
rip passion
chipmonklord17
Profile Joined February 2011
United States11944 Posts
August 14 2015 21:03 GMT
#244
On August 15 2015 06:00 Heartland wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 15 2015 05:59 chipmonklord17 wrote:
On August 15 2015 05:56 Heartland wrote:
On August 15 2015 05:53 chipmonklord17 wrote:
On August 15 2015 05:49 Ej_ wrote:
On August 15 2015 05:47 chipmonklord17 wrote:
On August 15 2015 05:45 Heartland wrote:
On August 15 2015 05:43 chipmonklord17 wrote:
On August 15 2015 05:42 Heartland wrote:
On August 15 2015 05:40 chipmonklord17 wrote:
I still hate the widow mine. I think its one of the worst designed units still in the game


I think exactly the opposite


Really? They're pretty much random and absurdly broken at lower levels. After drilling claws (which I REALLY can't believe is still a thing) a zerg player has 1 second to react to a burrowed mine. As a zerg it feels like there are no countermeasures once the mine count gets high enough. And luckily enough they can be produced two at a time


It gives a lot to the Terran gameplay in terms of space control, how it interacts with bio. But above all I think it's one of the few things in sc2 which allows comebacks, it rewards skill and all those "OOOOOH SHIII!" moments that are just way too few in sc2.

This doesn't mean I don't hate it when a Terran randomly boosts into my mineral lines and all my shit dies though.


I suppose that's where I disagree. At least in TvZ. TvP I can't really comment on but in TvZ it feels like once you've made enough mines you've won. It doesn't take skill to burrow a unit that takes 1 second and then have it get a lucky hit. I think you move them to techlab and remove drilling claws and I'm okay with them as is, but it just feels like they've been made to be too good.

EDIT: My god you can barely tell what's bolded in the new format. Rito TL pls

they are definitely not "too good" vs Zerg, but they are INSANELY frustrating for both sides of the match up


I mean too good in both the balance sense and in the sense that they outclass most of terran's other units. Why build tanks when you can build mines? Why build thors when you can build mines? It feels like mines are too much of a one stop shop for terran with too negligible of a downside. They're fast enough to keep up, quick enough to burrow to defend themselves, hit ground and air, don't splash eachother. They're not BL/Infestor levels of too good, but imo they're far too good to have remained in the game this long without some kind of tweak


You don't build tanks because tanks suck : P Terrans do build Thors, marines, medivacs, marauders and all that other shit. They can easily lose you a game if you get bad hits because Zerg baits them out or snipes them or catches terran in a bad situation

Terrans do build more than just mines, but there are also terrans who build JUST mines from factories. Its completely viable to build marine/mine and nothing else. Hell we've seen exclusively mine/medivac work out. IMO that just shouldn't be the case


In what league?


In a WCS qualifier


stuchiu
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
August 14 2015 21:04 GMT
#245
On August 15 2015 06:02 Boucot wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 15 2015 06:00 Heartland wrote:
On August 15 2015 05:59 chipmonklord17 wrote:
On August 15 2015 05:56 Heartland wrote:
On August 15 2015 05:53 chipmonklord17 wrote:
On August 15 2015 05:49 Ej_ wrote:
On August 15 2015 05:47 chipmonklord17 wrote:
On August 15 2015 05:45 Heartland wrote:
On August 15 2015 05:43 chipmonklord17 wrote:
On August 15 2015 05:42 Heartland wrote:
[quote]

I think exactly the opposite


Really? They're pretty much random and absurdly broken at lower levels. After drilling claws (which I REALLY can't believe is still a thing) a zerg player has 1 second to react to a burrowed mine. As a zerg it feels like there are no countermeasures once the mine count gets high enough. And luckily enough they can be produced two at a time


It gives a lot to the Terran gameplay in terms of space control, how it interacts with bio. But above all I think it's one of the few things in sc2 which allows comebacks, it rewards skill and all those "OOOOOH SHIII!" moments that are just way too few in sc2.

This doesn't mean I don't hate it when a Terran randomly boosts into my mineral lines and all my shit dies though.


I suppose that's where I disagree. At least in TvZ. TvP I can't really comment on but in TvZ it feels like once you've made enough mines you've won. It doesn't take skill to burrow a unit that takes 1 second and then have it get a lucky hit. I think you move them to techlab and remove drilling claws and I'm okay with them as is, but it just feels like they've been made to be too good.

EDIT: My god you can barely tell what's bolded in the new format. Rito TL pls

they are definitely not "too good" vs Zerg, but they are INSANELY frustrating for both sides of the match up


I mean too good in both the balance sense and in the sense that they outclass most of terran's other units. Why build tanks when you can build mines? Why build thors when you can build mines? It feels like mines are too much of a one stop shop for terran with too negligible of a downside. They're fast enough to keep up, quick enough to burrow to defend themselves, hit ground and air, don't splash eachother. They're not BL/Infestor levels of too good, but imo they're far too good to have remained in the game this long without some kind of tweak


You don't build tanks because tanks suck : P Terrans do build Thors, marines, medivacs, marauders and all that other shit. They can easily lose you a game if you get bad hits because Zerg baits them out or snipes them or catches terran in a bad situation

Terrans do build more than just mines, but there are also terrans who build JUST mines from factories. Its completely viable to build marine/mine and nothing else. Hell we've seen exclusively mine/medivac work out. IMO that just shouldn't be the case


In what league?

I remember qxc killing Stephano with mines only on ladder. That was heartbreaking.


You mean hilarious?
Moderator
Shellshock
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States97276 Posts
August 14 2015 21:04 GMT
#246
On August 15 2015 06:02 y0su wrote:
shouldn't there be games?

This is a foreigner event. It's about maximizing down time with a few games sprinkled between
Moderatorhttp://i.imgur.com/U4xwqmD.png
TL+ Member
Heartland
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Sweden24593 Posts
August 14 2015 21:05 GMT
#247
On August 15 2015 06:03 chipmonklord17 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 15 2015 06:00 Heartland wrote:
On August 15 2015 05:59 chipmonklord17 wrote:
On August 15 2015 05:56 Heartland wrote:
On August 15 2015 05:53 chipmonklord17 wrote:
On August 15 2015 05:49 Ej_ wrote:
On August 15 2015 05:47 chipmonklord17 wrote:
On August 15 2015 05:45 Heartland wrote:
On August 15 2015 05:43 chipmonklord17 wrote:
On August 15 2015 05:42 Heartland wrote:
[quote]

I think exactly the opposite


Really? They're pretty much random and absurdly broken at lower levels. After drilling claws (which I REALLY can't believe is still a thing) a zerg player has 1 second to react to a burrowed mine. As a zerg it feels like there are no countermeasures once the mine count gets high enough. And luckily enough they can be produced two at a time


It gives a lot to the Terran gameplay in terms of space control, how it interacts with bio. But above all I think it's one of the few things in sc2 which allows comebacks, it rewards skill and all those "OOOOOH SHIII!" moments that are just way too few in sc2.

This doesn't mean I don't hate it when a Terran randomly boosts into my mineral lines and all my shit dies though.


I suppose that's where I disagree. At least in TvZ. TvP I can't really comment on but in TvZ it feels like once you've made enough mines you've won. It doesn't take skill to burrow a unit that takes 1 second and then have it get a lucky hit. I think you move them to techlab and remove drilling claws and I'm okay with them as is, but it just feels like they've been made to be too good.

EDIT: My god you can barely tell what's bolded in the new format. Rito TL pls

they are definitely not "too good" vs Zerg, but they are INSANELY frustrating for both sides of the match up


I mean too good in both the balance sense and in the sense that they outclass most of terran's other units. Why build tanks when you can build mines? Why build thors when you can build mines? It feels like mines are too much of a one stop shop for terran with too negligible of a downside. They're fast enough to keep up, quick enough to burrow to defend themselves, hit ground and air, don't splash eachother. They're not BL/Infestor levels of too good, but imo they're far too good to have remained in the game this long without some kind of tweak


You don't build tanks because tanks suck : P Terrans do build Thors, marines, medivacs, marauders and all that other shit. They can easily lose you a game if you get bad hits because Zerg baits them out or snipes them or catches terran in a bad situation

Terrans do build more than just mines, but there are also terrans who build JUST mines from factories. Its completely viable to build marine/mine and nothing else. Hell we've seen exclusively mine/medivac work out. IMO that just shouldn't be the case


In what league?


In a WCS qualifier

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiLId1rFH-c


That is hilarious. But I don't think one game in a wcs eu qualifier makes it a big problem, really. It's just a strange one off.
Solar424
Profile Blog Joined June 2013
United States4001 Posts
August 14 2015 21:07 GMT
#248
I think the problem with widow mines is that they are way to cost efficient. A 75/25 that can one-shot a 100/100 mutalisk, and when its done that, its paid for itself. And it can do that again every 40 seconds.
chipmonklord17
Profile Joined February 2011
United States11944 Posts
August 14 2015 21:08 GMT
#249
On August 15 2015 06:07 Solar424 wrote:
I think the problem with widow mines is that they are way to cost efficient. A 75/25 that can one-shot a 100/100 mutalisk, and when its done that, its paid for itself. And it can do that again every 40 seconds.


That too. Add in its double production capabilities and 1 second burrow time and you're left with a unit that has very little drawbacks.
Faefae
Profile Joined June 2014
2203 Posts
August 14 2015 21:10 GMT
#250
On August 15 2015 06:03 chipmonklord17 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 15 2015 06:00 Heartland wrote:
On August 15 2015 05:59 chipmonklord17 wrote:
On August 15 2015 05:56 Heartland wrote:
On August 15 2015 05:53 chipmonklord17 wrote:
On August 15 2015 05:49 Ej_ wrote:
On August 15 2015 05:47 chipmonklord17 wrote:
On August 15 2015 05:45 Heartland wrote:
On August 15 2015 05:43 chipmonklord17 wrote:
On August 15 2015 05:42 Heartland wrote:
[quote]

I think exactly the opposite


Really? They're pretty much random and absurdly broken at lower levels. After drilling claws (which I REALLY can't believe is still a thing) a zerg player has 1 second to react to a burrowed mine. As a zerg it feels like there are no countermeasures once the mine count gets high enough. And luckily enough they can be produced two at a time


It gives a lot to the Terran gameplay in terms of space control, how it interacts with bio. But above all I think it's one of the few things in sc2 which allows comebacks, it rewards skill and all those "OOOOOH SHIII!" moments that are just way too few in sc2.

This doesn't mean I don't hate it when a Terran randomly boosts into my mineral lines and all my shit dies though.


I suppose that's where I disagree. At least in TvZ. TvP I can't really comment on but in TvZ it feels like once you've made enough mines you've won. It doesn't take skill to burrow a unit that takes 1 second and then have it get a lucky hit. I think you move them to techlab and remove drilling claws and I'm okay with them as is, but it just feels like they've been made to be too good.

EDIT: My god you can barely tell what's bolded in the new format. Rito TL pls

they are definitely not "too good" vs Zerg, but they are INSANELY frustrating for both sides of the match up


I mean too good in both the balance sense and in the sense that they outclass most of terran's other units. Why build tanks when you can build mines? Why build thors when you can build mines? It feels like mines are too much of a one stop shop for terran with too negligible of a downside. They're fast enough to keep up, quick enough to burrow to defend themselves, hit ground and air, don't splash eachother. They're not BL/Infestor levels of too good, but imo they're far too good to have remained in the game this long without some kind of tweak


You don't build tanks because tanks suck : P Terrans do build Thors, marines, medivacs, marauders and all that other shit. They can easily lose you a game if you get bad hits because Zerg baits them out or snipes them or catches terran in a bad situation

Terrans do build more than just mines, but there are also terrans who build JUST mines from factories. Its completely viable to build marine/mine and nothing else. Hell we've seen exclusively mine/medivac work out. IMO that just shouldn't be the case


In what league?


In a WCS qualifier

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiLId1rFH-c

Isn't Badborz around diamond level? Even if he entered WCS qualifier, that does not mean that he's code S level !
ForGG. 29/11/2014
Die4Ever
Profile Joined August 2010
United States17723 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-08-14 21:12:42
August 14 2015 21:11 GMT
#251
how long was that break from end of the last game to start of this game...? feels like 30 minutes lol
actually looking at the posts here, it seems to have been 28 minutes
"Expert" mods4ever.com
Sent.
Profile Joined June 2012
Poland9266 Posts
August 14 2015 21:12 GMT
#252
wow no cc lift
You're now breathing manually
Solar424
Profile Blog Joined June 2013
United States4001 Posts
August 14 2015 21:12 GMT
#253
On August 15 2015 06:12 Sent. wrote:
wow no cc lift

Too afraid of the Bly counter
[PkF] Wire
Profile Joined March 2013
France24238 Posts
August 14 2015 21:13 GMT
#254
On August 15 2015 06:12 Solar424 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 15 2015 06:12 Sent. wrote:
wow no cc lift

Too afraid of the Bly counter

what is it ?
chipmonklord17
Profile Joined February 2011
United States11944 Posts
August 14 2015 21:13 GMT
#255
On August 15 2015 06:13 [PkF] Wire wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 15 2015 06:12 Solar424 wrote:
On August 15 2015 06:12 Sent. wrote:
wow no cc lift

Too afraid of the Bly counter

what is it ?


I'm just going to assume roaches
Boucot
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
France15997 Posts
August 14 2015 21:13 GMT
#256
On August 15 2015 06:11 Die4Ever wrote:
how long was that break from end of the last game to start of this game...? feels like 30 minutes lol
actually looking at the posts here, it seems to have been 28 minutes

Yeah I think it was 25 minutes this time. Way too long.
Former SC2 writer for Millenium - twitter.com/Boucot
Deathstar
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
9150 Posts
August 14 2015 21:14 GMT
#257
Banana backdoor = Tasteless hallway...
rip passion
Solar424
Profile Blog Joined June 2013
United States4001 Posts
August 14 2015 21:16 GMT
#258
On August 15 2015 06:13 [PkF] Wire wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 15 2015 06:12 Solar424 wrote:
On August 15 2015 06:12 Sent. wrote:
wow no cc lift

Too afraid of the Bly counter

what is it ?

Proxy hatch on the high ground. Spine crawlers poke away at the SCV's
Sent.
Profile Joined June 2012
Poland9266 Posts
August 14 2015 21:16 GMT
#259
One base Roach and Scrap Station copy bring back some old memories
You're now breathing manually
y0su
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
Finland7871 Posts
August 14 2015 21:17 GMT
#260
On August 15 2015 06:04 Shellshock wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 15 2015 06:02 y0su wrote:
shouldn't there be games?

This is a foreigner event. It's about maximizing down time with a few games sprinkled between

ah the old mlg style
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