damn, I think that's the worst opponent sOs could have got besides Life, his streak might end here - I'd say it's 50/50 but I'm really cheering for sOs and JinAir
On June 30 2015 01:28 Inflicted wrote: Stats had pretty poor results lately
Yeah, only 18-3 this year - what a scrub!
By lately he probably meant the last 3 weeks instead of the last 6 months. He didn't qualify for IEM, KeSPA Cup or GSL. But then... with Stats, that's almost business as usual by now.
On June 30 2015 01:28 Inflicted wrote: Stats had pretty poor results lately
Yeah, only 18-3 this year - what a scrub!
By lately he probably meant the last 3 weeks instead of the last 6 months. He didn't qualify for IEM, KeSPA Cup or GSL. But then... with Stats, that's almost business as usual by now.
I'm sorry, I thought we were talking about SPL in an SPL thread.
On June 29 2015 23:42 The_Templar wrote: sOs all kill, right?
Lee Seung Hyun all-kill
4th best player in KT this round. Should bench him for stats
Would it be demotivating to be behind Flash in SC2PL? =/
Why should it?
Flash didn't exactly have the greatest transition into SC2, let's just put it that way. Buuut he's working hard (probably is working hard) and improving. But I would've thought that Life would just crush everyone else in 2015.
On June 29 2015 23:42 The_Templar wrote: sOs all kill, right?
Lee Seung Hyun all-kill
4th best player in KT this round. Should bench him for stats
Would it be demotivating to be behind Flash in SC2PL? =/
Why should it?
Flash didn't exactly have the greatest transition into SC2, let's just put it that way. Buuut he's working hard (probably is working hard) and improving. But I would've thought that Life would just crush everyone else in 2015.
FlaSh's peak was in August/September 2014 and since he basically announced his retirement he won't improve a lot.
On June 29 2015 23:42 The_Templar wrote: sOs all kill, right?
Lee Seung Hyun all-kill
4th best player in KT this round. Should bench him for stats
Would it be demotivating to be behind Flash in SC2PL? =/
Why should it?
Flash didn't exactly have the greatest transition into SC2, let's just put it that way. Buuut he's working hard (probably is working hard) and improving. But I would've thought that Life would just crush everyone else in 2015.
FlaSh's peak was in August/September 2014 and since he basically announced his retirement he won't improve a lot.
On June 29 2015 23:42 The_Templar wrote: sOs all kill, right?
Lee Seung Hyun all-kill
4th best player in KT this round. Should bench him for stats
Would it be demotivating to be behind Flash in SC2PL? =/
Why should it?
Flash didn't exactly have the greatest transition into SC2, let's just put it that way. Buuut he's working hard (probably is working hard) and improving. But I would've thought that Life would just crush everyone else in 2015.
This is Proleague. Sometimes, it follows its own rules. Flash may not have had much success in individual formats since his transition, but he's been KT's top performer the last 3 years straight, this'll be the first year he won't be.
Nevermind the fact that I would expect Life to be motivated from having to actually prove he's the better player.
On June 29 2015 23:42 The_Templar wrote: sOs all kill, right?
Lee Seung Hyun all-kill
4th best player in KT this round. Should bench him for stats
Would it be demotivating to be behind Flash in SC2PL? =/
Why should it?
Flash didn't exactly have the greatest transition into SC2, let's just put it that way. Buuut he's working hard (probably is working hard) and improving. But I would've thought that Life would just crush everyone else in 2015.
FlaSh's peak was in August/September 2014 and since he basically announced his retirement he won't improve a lot.
Wait when did he announce his retirement?
I assume he's referring to the TL interview with Flash where Flash says he's considering coming back to Brood War after he retires. With no indication of when that'll be whatsoever.
On June 29 2015 23:42 The_Templar wrote: sOs all kill, right?
Lee Seung Hyun all-kill
4th best player in KT this round. Should bench him for stats
Would it be demotivating to be behind Flash in SC2PL? =/
Why should it?
Flash didn't exactly have the greatest transition into SC2, let's just put it that way. Buuut he's working hard (probably is working hard) and improving. But I would've thought that Life would just crush everyone else in 2015.
This is Proleague. Sometimes, it follows its own rules. Flash may not have had much success in individual formats since his transition, but he's been KT's top performer the last 3 years straight, this'll be the first year he won't be.
Nevermind the fact that I would expect Life to be motivated from having to actually prove he's the better player.
On June 29 2015 23:42 The_Templar wrote: sOs all kill, right?
Lee Seung Hyun all-kill
4th best player in KT this round. Should bench him for stats
Would it be demotivating to be behind Flash in SC2PL? =/
Why should it?
Flash didn't exactly have the greatest transition into SC2, let's just put it that way. Buuut he's working hard (probably is working hard) and improving. But I would've thought that Life would just crush everyone else in 2015.
FlaSh's peak was in August/September 2014 and since he basically announced his retirement he won't improve a lot.
Wait when did he announce his retirement?
I assume he's referring to the TL interview with Flash where Flash says he's considering coming back to Brood War after he retires. With no indication of when that'll be.
Ah okay, that makes a lot more sense. I don't think that he'll retire until at least after Legacy comes out, because it'll probably be a partial, if not full reset to the game.
On June 29 2015 23:42 The_Templar wrote: sOs all kill, right?
Lee Seung Hyun all-kill
4th best player in KT this round. Should bench him for stats
Would it be demotivating to be behind Flash in SC2PL? =/
Why should it?
Flash didn't exactly have the greatest transition into SC2, let's just put it that way. Buuut he's working hard (probably is working hard) and improving. But I would've thought that Life would just crush everyone else in 2015.
It's not like Flash is a crap player in sc2. He's actually done pretty well in proleague each season and he's still a tournament winner. He may not be a gsl title contender but that doesn't mean it's shameful to have done worse than him in proleague. The whole flash transitioning poorly is way overblown just because of who he is.
Also, life is historically a very average team league player in the Korean team leagues. He's pretty much doing as expected. Just look up his results from gstl and stuff
On June 29 2015 23:42 The_Templar wrote: sOs all kill, right?
Lee Seung Hyun all-kill
4th best player in KT this round. Should bench him for stats
Would it be demotivating to be behind Flash in SC2PL? =/
Why should it?
Flash didn't exactly have the greatest transition into SC2, let's just put it that way. Buuut he's working hard (probably is working hard) and improving. But I would've thought that Life would just crush everyone else in 2015.
It's not like Flash is a crap player in sc2. He's actually done pretty well in proleague each season and he's still a tournament winner. He may not be a gsl title contender but that doesn't mean it's shameful to have done worse than him in proleague. The whole flash transitioning poorly is way overblown just because of who he is.
Also, life is historically a very average team league player in the Korean team leagues. He's pretty much doing as expected. Just look up his results from gstl and stuff
Hm... I definitely see your point. I at least know that I had higher, and probably unreasonable expectations of Flash, but there's a good reason why the KT coaching squad keeps sending him out time after time.
On June 29 2015 23:42 The_Templar wrote: sOs all kill, right?
Lee Seung Hyun all-kill
4th best player in KT this round. Should bench him for stats
Would it be demotivating to be behind Flash in SC2PL? =/
Why should it?
Flash didn't exactly have the greatest transition into SC2, let's just put it that way. Buuut he's working hard (probably is working hard) and improving. But I would've thought that Life would just crush everyone else in 2015.
It's not like Flash is a crap player in sc2. He's actually done pretty well in proleague each season and he's still a tournament winner. He may not be a gsl title contender but that doesn't mean it's shameful to have done worse than him in proleague. The whole flash transitioning poorly is way overblown just because of who he is.
Also, life is historically a very average team league player in the Korean team leagues. He's pretty much doing as expected. Just look up his results from gstl and stuff
Hm... I definitely see your point. I at least know that I had higher, and probably unreasonable expectations of Flash, but there's a good reason why the KT coaching squad keeps sending him out time after time.
Just go through the player stats for Proleague on Liquipedia from 2014 to 2011-2012 (season 2) and you see the main reason pretty much immediately. Other than him being Flash, that is.
On June 29 2015 23:42 The_Templar wrote: sOs all kill, right?
Lee Seung Hyun all-kill
4th best player in KT this round. Should bench him for stats
Would it be demotivating to be behind Flash in SC2PL? =/
Why should it?
Flash didn't exactly have the greatest transition into SC2, let's just put it that way. Buuut he's working hard (probably is working hard) and improving. But I would've thought that Life would just crush everyone else in 2015.
This is Proleague. Sometimes, it follows its own rules. Flash may not have had much success in individual formats since his transition, but he's been KT's top performer the last 3 years straight, this'll be the first year he won't be.
Nevermind the fact that I would expect Life to be motivated from having to actually prove he's the better player.
On June 29 2015 23:42 The_Templar wrote: sOs all kill, right?
Lee Seung Hyun all-kill
4th best player in KT this round. Should bench him for stats
Would it be demotivating to be behind Flash in SC2PL? =/
Why should it?
Flash didn't exactly have the greatest transition into SC2, let's just put it that way. Buuut he's working hard (probably is working hard) and improving. But I would've thought that Life would just crush everyone else in 2015.
FlaSh's peak was in August/September 2014 and since he basically announced his retirement he won't improve a lot.
Wait when did he announce his retirement?
I assume he's referring to the TL interview with Flash where Flash says he's considering coming back to Brood War after he retires. With no indication of when that'll be whatsoever.
More precisely I'm referring to GGZerG's post saying that he'll retire at the end of the PL season. Which sounds about right to me, because unless he's still in GSL or SSL by then, that should be timed with his last GSL/SSL season before LotV's release.
On June 29 2015 23:42 The_Templar wrote: sOs all kill, right?
Lee Seung Hyun all-kill
4th best player in KT this round. Should bench him for stats
Would it be demotivating to be behind Flash in SC2PL? =/
Why should it?
Flash didn't exactly have the greatest transition into SC2, let's just put it that way. Buuut he's working hard (probably is working hard) and improving. But I would've thought that Life would just crush everyone else in 2015.
This is Proleague. Sometimes, it follows its own rules. Flash may not have had much success in individual formats since his transition, but he's been KT's top performer the last 3 years straight, this'll be the first year he won't be.
Nevermind the fact that I would expect Life to be motivated from having to actually prove he's the better player.
On June 30 2015 03:48 IntoTheheart wrote:
On June 30 2015 03:47 OtherWorld wrote:
On June 30 2015 03:44 IntoTheheart wrote:
On June 30 2015 03:43 Elentos wrote:
On June 30 2015 03:39 IntoTheheart wrote:
On June 30 2015 03:28 Shellshock wrote:
On June 30 2015 03:10 Ej_ wrote:
On June 29 2015 23:42 The_Templar wrote: sOs all kill, right?
Lee Seung Hyun all-kill
4th best player in KT this round. Should bench him for stats
Would it be demotivating to be behind Flash in SC2PL? =/
Why should it?
Flash didn't exactly have the greatest transition into SC2, let's just put it that way. Buuut he's working hard (probably is working hard) and improving. But I would've thought that Life would just crush everyone else in 2015.
FlaSh's peak was in August/September 2014 and since he basically announced his retirement he won't improve a lot.
Wait when did he announce his retirement?
I assume he's referring to the TL interview with Flash where Flash says he's considering coming back to Brood War after he retires. With no indication of when that'll be whatsoever.
More precisely I'm referring to GGZerG's post saying that he'll retire at the end of the PL season. Which sounds about right to me, because unless he's still in GSL or SSL by then, that should be timed with his last GSL/SSL season before LotV's release.
Do you have a link to that? I find individual posts I haven't read before impossible to find on TL.
this will be quite interesting i believe. maru is the biggest threat for kt by far because on a normal day he should only lose to life. and then u have rogue who outsmarted life in the last zvzs ive seen between the 2. life vs maru and stats vs rogue could be the only really close matches if we get those
On June 29 2015 23:42 The_Templar wrote: sOs all kill, right?
Lee Seung Hyun all-kill
4th best player in KT this round. Should bench him for stats
Would it be demotivating to be behind Flash in SC2PL? =/
Why should it?
Flash didn't exactly have the greatest transition into SC2, let's just put it that way. Buuut he's working hard (probably is working hard) and improving. But I would've thought that Life would just crush everyone else in 2015.
This is Proleague. Sometimes, it follows its own rules. Flash may not have had much success in individual formats since his transition, but he's been KT's top performer the last 3 years straight, this'll be the first year he won't be.
Nevermind the fact that I would expect Life to be motivated from having to actually prove he's the better player.
On June 30 2015 03:48 IntoTheheart wrote:
On June 30 2015 03:47 OtherWorld wrote:
On June 30 2015 03:44 IntoTheheart wrote:
On June 30 2015 03:43 Elentos wrote:
On June 30 2015 03:39 IntoTheheart wrote:
On June 30 2015 03:28 Shellshock wrote:
On June 30 2015 03:10 Ej_ wrote: [quote] Lee Seung Hyun all-kill
4th best player in KT this round. Should bench him for stats
Would it be demotivating to be behind Flash in SC2PL? =/
Why should it?
Flash didn't exactly have the greatest transition into SC2, let's just put it that way. Buuut he's working hard (probably is working hard) and improving. But I would've thought that Life would just crush everyone else in 2015.
FlaSh's peak was in August/September 2014 and since he basically announced his retirement he won't improve a lot.
Wait when did he announce his retirement?
I assume he's referring to the TL interview with Flash where Flash says he's considering coming back to Brood War after he retires. With no indication of when that'll be whatsoever.
More precisely I'm referring to GGZerG's post saying that he'll retire at the end of the PL season. Which sounds about right to me, because unless he's still in GSL or SSL by then, that should be timed with his last GSL/SSL season before LotV's release.
Do you have a link to that? I find individual posts I haven't read before impossible to find on TL.
On June 29 2015 23:42 The_Templar wrote: sOs all kill, right?
Lee Seung Hyun all-kill
4th best player in KT this round. Should bench him for stats
Would it be demotivating to be behind Flash in SC2PL? =/
Why should it?
Flash didn't exactly have the greatest transition into SC2, let's just put it that way. Buuut he's working hard (probably is working hard) and improving. But I would've thought that Life would just crush everyone else in 2015.
This is Proleague. Sometimes, it follows its own rules. Flash may not have had much success in individual formats since his transition, but he's been KT's top performer the last 3 years straight, this'll be the first year he won't be.
Nevermind the fact that I would expect Life to be motivated from having to actually prove he's the better player.
On June 30 2015 03:48 IntoTheheart wrote:
On June 30 2015 03:47 OtherWorld wrote:
On June 30 2015 03:44 IntoTheheart wrote:
On June 30 2015 03:43 Elentos wrote:
On June 30 2015 03:39 IntoTheheart wrote:
On June 30 2015 03:28 Shellshock wrote: [quote] 4th best player in KT this round. Should bench him for stats
Would it be demotivating to be behind Flash in SC2PL? =/
Why should it?
Flash didn't exactly have the greatest transition into SC2, let's just put it that way. Buuut he's working hard (probably is working hard) and improving. But I would've thought that Life would just crush everyone else in 2015.
FlaSh's peak was in August/September 2014 and since he basically announced his retirement he won't improve a lot.
Wait when did he announce his retirement?
I assume he's referring to the TL interview with Flash where Flash says he's considering coming back to Brood War after he retires. With no indication of when that'll be whatsoever.
More precisely I'm referring to GGZerG's post saying that he'll retire at the end of the PL season. Which sounds about right to me, because unless he's still in GSL or SSL by then, that should be timed with his last GSL/SSL season before LotV's release.
Do you have a link to that? I find individual posts I haven't read before impossible to find on TL.
Although I don't quite see the point of going back to Brood War before your military service.
Also might be a tough year coming up for KT. Zest, First, Stats and Flash are all around the same age and all former BW pros, imagine if they retire collectively :S
On June 30 2015 03:10 Ej_ wrote: [quote] Lee Seung Hyun all-kill
4th best player in KT this round. Should bench him for stats
Would it be demotivating to be behind Flash in SC2PL? =/
Why should it?
Flash didn't exactly have the greatest transition into SC2, let's just put it that way. Buuut he's working hard (probably is working hard) and improving. But I would've thought that Life would just crush everyone else in 2015.
This is Proleague. Sometimes, it follows its own rules. Flash may not have had much success in individual formats since his transition, but he's been KT's top performer the last 3 years straight, this'll be the first year he won't be.
Nevermind the fact that I would expect Life to be motivated from having to actually prove he's the better player.
On June 30 2015 03:48 IntoTheheart wrote:
On June 30 2015 03:47 OtherWorld wrote:
On June 30 2015 03:44 IntoTheheart wrote:
On June 30 2015 03:43 Elentos wrote:
On June 30 2015 03:39 IntoTheheart wrote: [quote] Would it be demotivating to be behind Flash in SC2PL? =/
Why should it?
Flash didn't exactly have the greatest transition into SC2, let's just put it that way. Buuut he's working hard (probably is working hard) and improving. But I would've thought that Life would just crush everyone else in 2015.
FlaSh's peak was in August/September 2014 and since he basically announced his retirement he won't improve a lot.
Wait when did he announce his retirement?
I assume he's referring to the TL interview with Flash where Flash says he's considering coming back to Brood War after he retires. With no indication of when that'll be whatsoever.
More precisely I'm referring to GGZerG's post saying that he'll retire at the end of the PL season. Which sounds about right to me, because unless he's still in GSL or SSL by then, that should be timed with his last GSL/SSL season before LotV's release.
Do you have a link to that? I find individual posts I haven't read before impossible to find on TL.
Although I don't quite see the point of going back to Brood War before your military service.
Also might be a tough year coming up for KT. Zest, First, Stats and Flash are all around the same age and all former BW pros, imagine if they retire collectively :S
I think it all depends on LotV and how much they enjoy it & the success they get tbh. Although for FlaSh it's another matter, I think that he set for himself the "2 years to be among the best in SC2" deadline (or 3 years, I don't remember) and now he's seeing that SC2 isn't meeting his expectations in terms of results, thus retirement. Zest and Stats are decently successful this year so it'd be weird for them to come back to BW, at least not until they spend 1 or so year(s) trying to find success in LotV. No idea about First though.
On June 30 2015 03:28 Shellshock wrote: [quote] 4th best player in KT this round. Should bench him for stats
Would it be demotivating to be behind Flash in SC2PL? =/
Why should it?
Flash didn't exactly have the greatest transition into SC2, let's just put it that way. Buuut he's working hard (probably is working hard) and improving. But I would've thought that Life would just crush everyone else in 2015.
This is Proleague. Sometimes, it follows its own rules. Flash may not have had much success in individual formats since his transition, but he's been KT's top performer the last 3 years straight, this'll be the first year he won't be.
Nevermind the fact that I would expect Life to be motivated from having to actually prove he's the better player.
On June 30 2015 03:48 IntoTheheart wrote:
On June 30 2015 03:47 OtherWorld wrote:
On June 30 2015 03:44 IntoTheheart wrote:
On June 30 2015 03:43 Elentos wrote: [quote] Why should it?
Flash didn't exactly have the greatest transition into SC2, let's just put it that way. Buuut he's working hard (probably is working hard) and improving. But I would've thought that Life would just crush everyone else in 2015.
FlaSh's peak was in August/September 2014 and since he basically announced his retirement he won't improve a lot.
Wait when did he announce his retirement?
I assume he's referring to the TL interview with Flash where Flash says he's considering coming back to Brood War after he retires. With no indication of when that'll be whatsoever.
More precisely I'm referring to GGZerG's post saying that he'll retire at the end of the PL season. Which sounds about right to me, because unless he's still in GSL or SSL by then, that should be timed with his last GSL/SSL season before LotV's release.
Do you have a link to that? I find individual posts I haven't read before impossible to find on TL.
Although I don't quite see the point of going back to Brood War before your military service.
Also might be a tough year coming up for KT. Zest, First, Stats and Flash are all around the same age and all former BW pros, imagine if they retire collectively :S
I think it all depends on LotV and how much they enjoy it & the success they get tbh. Although for FlaSh it's another matter, I think that he set for himself the "2 years to be among the best in SC2" deadline (or 3 years, I don't remember) and now he's seeing that SC2 isn't meeting his expectations in terms of results, thus retirement. Zest and Stats are decently successful this year so it'd be weird for them to come back to BW, at least not until they spend 1 or so year(s) trying to find success in LotV. No idea about First though.
I was just imagining a horror scenario, because as it stands now, KT can't accurately replace Flash, Zest and Stats in Proleague. Life has never been a beast for the team leagues and I doubt he will become one, TY has extreme consistency issues, etc. And most of the young rising stars are already on teams that are on KT's level.
On June 30 2015 03:39 IntoTheheart wrote: [quote] Would it be demotivating to be behind Flash in SC2PL? =/
Why should it?
Flash didn't exactly have the greatest transition into SC2, let's just put it that way. Buuut he's working hard (probably is working hard) and improving. But I would've thought that Life would just crush everyone else in 2015.
This is Proleague. Sometimes, it follows its own rules. Flash may not have had much success in individual formats since his transition, but he's been KT's top performer the last 3 years straight, this'll be the first year he won't be.
Nevermind the fact that I would expect Life to be motivated from having to actually prove he's the better player.
On June 30 2015 03:48 IntoTheheart wrote:
On June 30 2015 03:47 OtherWorld wrote:
On June 30 2015 03:44 IntoTheheart wrote: [quote] Flash didn't exactly have the greatest transition into SC2, let's just put it that way. Buuut he's working hard (probably is working hard) and improving. But I would've thought that Life would just crush everyone else in 2015.
FlaSh's peak was in August/September 2014 and since he basically announced his retirement he won't improve a lot.
Wait when did he announce his retirement?
I assume he's referring to the TL interview with Flash where Flash says he's considering coming back to Brood War after he retires. With no indication of when that'll be whatsoever.
More precisely I'm referring to GGZerG's post saying that he'll retire at the end of the PL season. Which sounds about right to me, because unless he's still in GSL or SSL by then, that should be timed with his last GSL/SSL season before LotV's release.
Do you have a link to that? I find individual posts I haven't read before impossible to find on TL.
Although I don't quite see the point of going back to Brood War before your military service.
Also might be a tough year coming up for KT. Zest, First, Stats and Flash are all around the same age and all former BW pros, imagine if they retire collectively :S
I think it all depends on LotV and how much they enjoy it & the success they get tbh. Although for FlaSh it's another matter, I think that he set for himself the "2 years to be among the best in SC2" deadline (or 3 years, I don't remember) and now he's seeing that SC2 isn't meeting his expectations in terms of results, thus retirement. Zest and Stats are decently successful this year so it'd be weird for them to come back to BW, at least not until they spend 1 or so year(s) trying to find success in LotV. No idea about First though.
I was just imagining a horror scenario, because as it stands now, KT can't accurately replace Flash, Zest and Stats in Proleague. Life has never been a beast for the team leagues and I doubt he will become one, TY has extreme consistency issues, etc. And most of the young rising stars are already on teams that are on KT's level.
It's true that KT have been kinda subpar with their young guns recruitment. I mean OK Life is like super young, but apart from him... I guess SpeeD must be young too?
On June 30 2015 03:43 Elentos wrote: [quote] Why should it?
Flash didn't exactly have the greatest transition into SC2, let's just put it that way. Buuut he's working hard (probably is working hard) and improving. But I would've thought that Life would just crush everyone else in 2015.
This is Proleague. Sometimes, it follows its own rules. Flash may not have had much success in individual formats since his transition, but he's been KT's top performer the last 3 years straight, this'll be the first year he won't be.
Nevermind the fact that I would expect Life to be motivated from having to actually prove he's the better player.
On June 30 2015 03:48 IntoTheheart wrote:
On June 30 2015 03:47 OtherWorld wrote: [quote] FlaSh's peak was in August/September 2014 and since he basically announced his retirement he won't improve a lot.
Wait when did he announce his retirement?
I assume he's referring to the TL interview with Flash where Flash says he's considering coming back to Brood War after he retires. With no indication of when that'll be whatsoever.
More precisely I'm referring to GGZerG's post saying that he'll retire at the end of the PL season. Which sounds about right to me, because unless he's still in GSL or SSL by then, that should be timed with his last GSL/SSL season before LotV's release.
Do you have a link to that? I find individual posts I haven't read before impossible to find on TL.
Although I don't quite see the point of going back to Brood War before your military service.
Also might be a tough year coming up for KT. Zest, First, Stats and Flash are all around the same age and all former BW pros, imagine if they retire collectively :S
I think it all depends on LotV and how much they enjoy it & the success they get tbh. Although for FlaSh it's another matter, I think that he set for himself the "2 years to be among the best in SC2" deadline (or 3 years, I don't remember) and now he's seeing that SC2 isn't meeting his expectations in terms of results, thus retirement. Zest and Stats are decently successful this year so it'd be weird for them to come back to BW, at least not until they spend 1 or so year(s) trying to find success in LotV. No idea about First though.
I was just imagining a horror scenario, because as it stands now, KT can't accurately replace Flash, Zest and Stats in Proleague. Life has never been a beast for the team leagues and I doubt he will become one, TY has extreme consistency issues, etc. And most of the young rising stars are already on teams that are on KT's level.
It's true that KT have been kinda subpar with their young guns recruitment. I mean OK Life is like super young, but apart from him... I guess SpeeD must be young too?
You'd assume he's young but nobody knows much about KT SpeeD *shrug*. There's no pictures of him even though Aligulac tells me he played quite a few offline games in his career since 2012 even.
On June 30 2015 03:10 Ej_ wrote: [quote] Lee Seung Hyun all-kill
4th best player in KT this round. Should bench him for stats
Would it be demotivating to be behind Flash in SC2PL? =/
Why should it?
Flash didn't exactly have the greatest transition into SC2, let's just put it that way. Buuut he's working hard (probably is working hard) and improving. But I would've thought that Life would just crush everyone else in 2015.
This is Proleague. Sometimes, it follows its own rules. Flash may not have had much success in individual formats since his transition, but he's been KT's top performer the last 3 years straight, this'll be the first year he won't be.
Nevermind the fact that I would expect Life to be motivated from having to actually prove he's the better player.
On June 30 2015 03:48 IntoTheheart wrote:
On June 30 2015 03:47 OtherWorld wrote:
On June 30 2015 03:44 IntoTheheart wrote:
On June 30 2015 03:43 Elentos wrote:
On June 30 2015 03:39 IntoTheheart wrote: [quote] Would it be demotivating to be behind Flash in SC2PL? =/
Why should it?
Flash didn't exactly have the greatest transition into SC2, let's just put it that way. Buuut he's working hard (probably is working hard) and improving. But I would've thought that Life would just crush everyone else in 2015.
FlaSh's peak was in August/September 2014 and since he basically announced his retirement he won't improve a lot.
Wait when did he announce his retirement?
I assume he's referring to the TL interview with Flash where Flash says he's considering coming back to Brood War after he retires. With no indication of when that'll be whatsoever.
More precisely I'm referring to GGZerG's post saying that he'll retire at the end of the PL season. Which sounds about right to me, because unless he's still in GSL or SSL by then, that should be timed with his last GSL/SSL season before LotV's release.
Do you have a link to that? I find individual posts I haven't read before impossible to find on TL.
Although I don't quite see the point of going back to Brood War before your military service.
Also might be a tough year coming up for KT. Zest, First, Stats and Flash are all around the same age and all former BW pros, imagine if they retire collectively :S
On June 30 2015 03:28 Shellshock wrote: [quote] 4th best player in KT this round. Should bench him for stats
Would it be demotivating to be behind Flash in SC2PL? =/
Why should it?
Flash didn't exactly have the greatest transition into SC2, let's just put it that way. Buuut he's working hard (probably is working hard) and improving. But I would've thought that Life would just crush everyone else in 2015.
This is Proleague. Sometimes, it follows its own rules. Flash may not have had much success in individual formats since his transition, but he's been KT's top performer the last 3 years straight, this'll be the first year he won't be.
Nevermind the fact that I would expect Life to be motivated from having to actually prove he's the better player.
On June 30 2015 03:48 IntoTheheart wrote:
On June 30 2015 03:47 OtherWorld wrote:
On June 30 2015 03:44 IntoTheheart wrote:
On June 30 2015 03:43 Elentos wrote: [quote] Why should it?
Flash didn't exactly have the greatest transition into SC2, let's just put it that way. Buuut he's working hard (probably is working hard) and improving. But I would've thought that Life would just crush everyone else in 2015.
FlaSh's peak was in August/September 2014 and since he basically announced his retirement he won't improve a lot.
Wait when did he announce his retirement?
I assume he's referring to the TL interview with Flash where Flash says he's considering coming back to Brood War after he retires. With no indication of when that'll be whatsoever.
More precisely I'm referring to GGZerG's post saying that he'll retire at the end of the PL season. Which sounds about right to me, because unless he's still in GSL or SSL by then, that should be timed with his last GSL/SSL season before LotV's release.
Do you have a link to that? I find individual posts I haven't read before impossible to find on TL.
Although I don't quite see the point of going back to Brood War before your military service.
Also might be a tough year coming up for KT. Zest, First, Stats and Flash are all around the same age and all former BW pros, imagine if they retire collectively :S
2016 year of Tae Yang.
Well... his 2015 so far is pretty good. Maybe his 2016 will be glorious. Who knows.
On June 30 2015 03:10 Ej_ wrote: [quote] Lee Seung Hyun all-kill
4th best player in KT this round. Should bench him for stats
Would it be demotivating to be behind Flash in SC2PL? =/
Why should it?
Flash didn't exactly have the greatest transition into SC2, let's just put it that way. Buuut he's working hard (probably is working hard) and improving. But I would've thought that Life would just crush everyone else in 2015.
This is Proleague. Sometimes, it follows its own rules. Flash may not have had much success in individual formats since his transition, but he's been KT's top performer the last 3 years straight, this'll be the first year he won't be.
Nevermind the fact that I would expect Life to be motivated from having to actually prove he's the better player.
On June 30 2015 03:48 IntoTheheart wrote:
On June 30 2015 03:47 OtherWorld wrote:
On June 30 2015 03:44 IntoTheheart wrote:
On June 30 2015 03:43 Elentos wrote:
On June 30 2015 03:39 IntoTheheart wrote: [quote] Would it be demotivating to be behind Flash in SC2PL? =/
Why should it?
Flash didn't exactly have the greatest transition into SC2, let's just put it that way. Buuut he's working hard (probably is working hard) and improving. But I would've thought that Life would just crush everyone else in 2015.
FlaSh's peak was in August/September 2014 and since he basically announced his retirement he won't improve a lot.
Wait when did he announce his retirement?
I assume he's referring to the TL interview with Flash where Flash says he's considering coming back to Brood War after he retires. With no indication of when that'll be whatsoever.
More precisely I'm referring to GGZerG's post saying that he'll retire at the end of the PL season. Which sounds about right to me, because unless he's still in GSL or SSL by then, that should be timed with his last GSL/SSL season before LotV's release.
Do you have a link to that? I find individual posts I haven't read before impossible to find on TL.
Although I don't quite see the point of going back to Brood War before your military service.
Also might be a tough year coming up for KT. Zest, First, Stats and Flash are all around the same age and all former BW pros, imagine if they retire collectively :S
On June 30 2015 03:28 Shellshock wrote: [quote] 4th best player in KT this round. Should bench him for stats
Would it be demotivating to be behind Flash in SC2PL? =/
Why should it?
Flash didn't exactly have the greatest transition into SC2, let's just put it that way. Buuut he's working hard (probably is working hard) and improving. But I would've thought that Life would just crush everyone else in 2015.
This is Proleague. Sometimes, it follows its own rules. Flash may not have had much success in individual formats since his transition, but he's been KT's top performer the last 3 years straight, this'll be the first year he won't be.
Nevermind the fact that I would expect Life to be motivated from having to actually prove he's the better player.
On June 30 2015 03:48 IntoTheheart wrote:
On June 30 2015 03:47 OtherWorld wrote:
On June 30 2015 03:44 IntoTheheart wrote:
On June 30 2015 03:43 Elentos wrote: [quote] Why should it?
Flash didn't exactly have the greatest transition into SC2, let's just put it that way. Buuut he's working hard (probably is working hard) and improving. But I would've thought that Life would just crush everyone else in 2015.
FlaSh's peak was in August/September 2014 and since he basically announced his retirement he won't improve a lot.
Wait when did he announce his retirement?
I assume he's referring to the TL interview with Flash where Flash says he's considering coming back to Brood War after he retires. With no indication of when that'll be whatsoever.
More precisely I'm referring to GGZerG's post saying that he'll retire at the end of the PL season. Which sounds about right to me, because unless he's still in GSL or SSL by then, that should be timed with his last GSL/SSL season before LotV's release.
Do you have a link to that? I find individual posts I haven't read before impossible to find on TL.
Although I don't quite see the point of going back to Brood War before your military service.
Also might be a tough year coming up for KT. Zest, First, Stats and Flash are all around the same age and all former BW pros, imagine if they retire collectively :S
On June 30 2015 03:28 Shellshock wrote: [quote] 4th best player in KT this round. Should bench him for stats
Would it be demotivating to be behind Flash in SC2PL? =/
Why should it?
Flash didn't exactly have the greatest transition into SC2, let's just put it that way. Buuut he's working hard (probably is working hard) and improving. But I would've thought that Life would just crush everyone else in 2015.
This is Proleague. Sometimes, it follows its own rules. Flash may not have had much success in individual formats since his transition, but he's been KT's top performer the last 3 years straight, this'll be the first year he won't be.
Nevermind the fact that I would expect Life to be motivated from having to actually prove he's the better player.
On June 30 2015 03:48 IntoTheheart wrote:
On June 30 2015 03:47 OtherWorld wrote:
On June 30 2015 03:44 IntoTheheart wrote:
On June 30 2015 03:43 Elentos wrote: [quote] Why should it?
Flash didn't exactly have the greatest transition into SC2, let's just put it that way. Buuut he's working hard (probably is working hard) and improving. But I would've thought that Life would just crush everyone else in 2015.
FlaSh's peak was in August/September 2014 and since he basically announced his retirement he won't improve a lot.
Wait when did he announce his retirement?
I assume he's referring to the TL interview with Flash where Flash says he's considering coming back to Brood War after he retires. With no indication of when that'll be whatsoever.
More precisely I'm referring to GGZerG's post saying that he'll retire at the end of the PL season. Which sounds about right to me, because unless he's still in GSL or SSL by then, that should be timed with his last GSL/SSL season before LotV's release.
Do you have a link to that? I find individual posts I haven't read before impossible to find on TL.
Although I don't quite see the point of going back to Brood War before your military service.
Also might be a tough year coming up for KT. Zest, First, Stats and Flash are all around the same age and all former BW pros, imagine if they retire collectively :S
On June 30 2015 10:12 Bagration wrote: I pray for 2 more sOs all kills. Those 12 maps wins would be more impressive than a Premier tourney win IMO
GumiGoD 8-0 in GSTL FInals
You see perfection, I see Choya fucking up and not playing Gumiho first so he could get the perfect 10-0. Imperfection denied by his own coach. How cruel fate is.
If KT coach plays it smart here KT will advance. They simply have a better Roster.
However the only player I see capable of beating Maru is Life. If they won't save Life to take out Maru the KT Protosses + Flash will just get rekt hard. Flash, Stats and Zest have like 1 percent change of beating the kid.
EDIT: Looking back KT really seems to have the dumbest coach, losing so many matches due to him sending out the wrong players to the highly unfavorable matchups. Therefore KT - Jin Air 2:4 or 3:4
On June 30 2015 17:18 MarianoSC2 wrote: If KT coach plays it smart here KT will advance. They simply have a better Roster.
However the only player I see capable of beating Maru is Life. If they won't save Life to take out Maru the KT Protosses + Flash will just get rekt hard. Flash, Stats and Zest have like 1 percent change of beating the kid.
EDIT: Looking back KT really seems to have the dumbest coach, losing so many matches due to him sending out the wrong players to the highly unfavorable matchups. Therefore KT - Jin Air 2:4 or 3:4
agree on KT coaches but I think Flash has a reasonable chance at Maru. I feel like maybe Zest and Stats can adjust as well but their history vs Maru is terrible. Maybe they saw the blueprint in how Rain and PartinG beat him.
JinAir is always the scariest team for me as a KT fan. I feel we have a great shot aganist SKT and CJ most rounds.
On June 30 2015 18:15 dazed25 wrote: not sure which format i prefer all kill is more exciting and explosive but pre-picked means we get to see the depth of teams and benches.
Excatly and in a BO7 instead of BO5 this is even more meaningful. I would much rather see the bottom of roster vs bottom of roster to see who winning xD
On June 30 2015 18:15 dazed25 wrote: not sure which format i prefer all kill is more exciting and explosive but pre-picked means we get to see the depth of teams and benches.
Excatly and in a BO7 instead of BO5 this is even more meaningful. I would much rather see the bottom of roster vs bottom of roster to see who winning xD
On June 30 2015 18:15 dazed25 wrote: not sure which format i prefer all kill is more exciting and explosive but pre-picked means we get to see the depth of teams and benches.
Excatly and in a BO7 instead of BO5 this is even more meaningful. I would much rather see the bottom of roster vs bottom of roster to see who winning xD
SKT/CJ
please.. KT and SKT
CJ and JinAir are essentially teams carried by two superstars
although CJ does have some great snipe/one matchup players like skyhigh
On June 30 2015 18:15 dazed25 wrote: not sure which format i prefer all kill is more exciting and explosive but pre-picked means we get to see the depth of teams and benches.
Excatly and in a BO7 instead of BO5 this is even more meaningful. I would much rather see the bottom of roster vs bottom of roster to see who winning xD
SKT/CJ
please.. KT and SKT
CJ and JinAir are essentially teams carried by two superstars
On June 30 2015 18:15 dazed25 wrote: not sure which format i prefer all kill is more exciting and explosive but pre-picked means we get to see the depth of teams and benches.
Excatly and in a BO7 instead of BO5 this is even more meaningful. I would much rather see the bottom of roster vs bottom of roster to see who winning xD
SKT/CJ
please.. KT and SKT
CJ and JinAir are essentially teams carried by two superstars
KT has been carried by Stats :/
yeah for the first 2 rounds or so but TY and Flash are rounding into form. Zest is still solid and Life is scary although not very reliable for PL. But if you are talking about 7 man depth KT wins out with Zest, Flash, Stats, Life, TY, First, and Super.
btw what browser are you guys using? i've recently switched to firefox over chrome and although it's slower it's video playback is so much better (especially on azubu). also a more stable browser overall although slightly slower at the beginning of loading a web page.
On June 30 2015 18:37 dazed25 wrote: btw what browser are you guys using? i've recently switched to firefox over chrome and although it's slower it's video playback is so much better (especially on azubu). also a more stable browser overall although slightly slower at the beginning of loading a web page.
Chrome, I used to main Opera before that and Firefox way before, but they both kepr crashing on me. Altough Chrome isn't really perfect as it has this annoying thing of logging me off on all sites sometimes and clearing cookies on others...
i really hope KT doesn't end up like last year's SKT underperforming with such a box office lineup. i still want to blame the coaches but i don't know enough about behind the scenes.
On June 30 2015 18:15 dazed25 wrote: not sure which format i prefer all kill is more exciting and explosive but pre-picked means we get to see the depth of teams and benches.
Excatly and in a BO7 instead of BO5 this is even more meaningful. I would much rather see the bottom of roster vs bottom of roster to see who winning xD
SKT/CJ
please.. KT and SKT
CJ and JinAir are essentially teams carried by two superstars
although CJ does have some great snipe/one matchup players like skyhigh
It's true that KT has added players who would be valuable in Bo7 recently (First/Super), I forgot about that (they'd still need a good B-team Zerg though). However CJ isn't really carried by two superstars, their B-teamers are great. Hush and sKyHigh are at 4-4 and 4-6 respectively, which for B-teamers is not that bad, and Bunny is 1-0.
On June 30 2015 18:37 dazed25 wrote: btw what browser are you guys using? i've recently switched to firefox over chrome and although it's slower it's video playback is so much better (especially on azubu). also a more stable browser overall although slightly slower at the beginning of loading a web page.
Chrome, I used to main Opera before that and Firefox way before, but they both kepr crashing on me. Altough Chrome isn't really perfect as it has this annoying thing of logging me off on all sites sometimes and clearing cookies on others...
I used Chrome for a long period too and the random logging off was really annoying I dont know why that happens
On June 30 2015 18:37 dazed25 wrote: btw what browser are you guys using? i've recently switched to firefox over chrome and although it's slower it's video playback is so much better (especially on azubu). also a more stable browser overall although slightly slower at the beginning of loading a web page.
I used FireFox since I pretty much discovered Internet, but lately I'm kinda disappointed by it, more bugs/lags/freezes than before (especially when there's a stream open - for some reason I get Flash issues a lot more with FF than with Chrome - or when loading a page with loads of pics).
On June 30 2015 18:37 dazed25 wrote: btw what browser are you guys using? i've recently switched to firefox over chrome and although it's slower it's video playback is so much better (especially on azubu). also a more stable browser overall although slightly slower at the beginning of loading a web page.
Chrome, I used to main Opera before that and Firefox way before, but they both kepr crashing on me. Altough Chrome isn't really perfect as it has this annoying thing of logging me off on all sites sometimes and clearing cookies on others...
I used Chrome for a long period too and the random logging off was really annoying I dont know why that happens
Only does it to me on Twitch everything else (TL/Emails) it has never auto logged me out just stupid twitch xD
On June 30 2015 18:50 dazed25 wrote: can't believe Stats lost to Classic after beating Zest..
Sounds like you are already thinking starting line-ups for the finals
Rogue with the solid freebird
nah i'm just flabbergasted at how bad Stats has looked recently (even the games he's won). He's looked sloppy and has crashed back down to earth. I think Zest and Stats are probably the best PvP players alive.
On June 30 2015 18:50 dazed25 wrote: can't believe Stats lost to Classic after beating Zest..
Sounds like you are already thinking starting line-ups for the finals
Rogue with the solid freebird
nah i'm just flabbergasted at how bad Stats has looked recently (even the games he's won). He's looked sloppy and has crashed back down to earth. I think Zest and Stats are probably the best PvP players alive.
KT coaches delighted because finally Stats doesn't overperform
On June 30 2015 18:54 DarkLordOlli wrote: Shit seems like I missed badness
dark shrine made in Zest's mineral line. 2 DTs run up sOs' ramp and kill his robo that was 2 hexes far from the ramp lol
Does everyone really think that the position on the Robo was so crucial? He would have done a metric shitton of damage no matter where the robo would have been, unless $O$ forcefielded the ramp, what did not happen.
On June 30 2015 18:54 DarkLordOlli wrote: Shit seems like I missed badness
dark shrine made in Zest's mineral line. 2 DTs run up sOs' ramp and kill his robo that was 2 hexes far from the ramp lol
Does everyone really think that the position on the Robo was so crucial? He would have done a metric shitton of damage no matter where the robo would have been, unless $O$ forcefielded the ramp, what did not happen.
he could have just unpowered the robo and done enough damage even if it was near the mineral line.
On June 30 2015 18:54 DarkLordOlli wrote: Shit seems like I missed badness
dark shrine made in Zest's mineral line. 2 DTs run up sOs' ramp and kill his robo that was 2 hexes far from the ramp lol
Does everyone really think that the position on the Robo was so crucial? He would have done a metric shitton of damage no matter where the robo would have been, unless $O$ forcefielded the ramp, what did not happen.
I'm with you. Though I'm no PvP expert, but it looked like the game was over the moment the DTs got up the ramp, regardless what they attacked.
On June 30 2015 18:54 DarkLordOlli wrote: Shit seems like I missed badness
dark shrine made in Zest's mineral line. 2 DTs run up sOs' ramp and kill his robo that was 2 hexes far from the ramp lol
Does everyone really think that the position on the Robo was so crucial? He would have done a metric shitton of damage no matter where the robo would have been, unless $O$ forcefielded the ramp, what did not happen.
it was funny because he wasted mining time running a probe to make it so far from his mineral line and then died because of that
On June 30 2015 18:54 DarkLordOlli wrote: Shit seems like I missed badness
dark shrine made in Zest's mineral line. 2 DTs run up sOs' ramp and kill his robo that was 2 hexes far from the ramp lol
Does everyone really think that the position on the Robo was so crucial? He would have done a metric shitton of damage no matter where the robo would have been, unless $O$ forcefielded the ramp, what did not happen.
Well he wouldn't have insta-died. And as sharkie pointed out, with that placement Zest would have easily sniped it with literally any aggressive 1-base build, resulting in a loss by sOs
On June 30 2015 18:54 DarkLordOlli wrote: Shit seems like I missed badness
dark shrine made in Zest's mineral line. 2 DTs run up sOs' ramp and kill his robo that was 2 hexes far from the ramp lol
Does everyone really think that the position on the Robo was so crucial? He would have done a metric shitton of damage no matter where the robo would have been, unless $O$ forcefielded the ramp, what did not happen.
Well he wouldn't have insta-died. And as sharkie pointed out, with that placement Zest would have easily sniped it with literally any aggressive 1-base build, resulting in a loss by sOs
Btw thank you Rogue for taking the other gold as well. Hate it when people take a regular natural here when they have already commited to defending the middle.
On June 30 2015 19:00 OtherWorld wrote: Gold bases are like drugs First you take one gold as your natural, and over time you realize it's not enough and you take both golds
then your 1st gold is being cannoned so you cancel and take the central gold on Vaani
On June 30 2015 19:04 Ramiz1989 wrote: Rogue is dead, he isn't getting any tech...
Yea so he doesn't die ~_~.
That's pretty much the first time I've heard this...
Well what would he really tech to? You can't give your opponent a window when they are Zest and you have to defend a position directly outside your opponent's base.
Welp, pretty bad game there from what I saw. Tuned in, saw Rogue had 2 gold bases, checked the army composition, laughed and left to get some food knowing that Rogue had no chance of winning, came back and saw Rogue get destroyed.
On June 30 2015 19:12 RaFox17 wrote: When Zest got his composition up even bronze protoss could have a-moved into victory. What were you thinking Rogue!!??!
Well he attempted at least 3 ling run-bys and 3 back door attacks. Zest just found the perfect counter to that strategy.
On June 30 2015 19:04 Ramiz1989 wrote: Rogue is dead, he isn't getting any tech...
Yea so he doesn't die ~_~.
That's pretty much the first time I've heard this...
Well what would he really tech to? You can't give your opponent a window when they are Zest and you have to defend a position directly outside your opponent's base.
Rogue had <45drones. You need 55drones against Immortal allins. That's why he couldn't do anything.
On June 30 2015 19:12 RaFox17 wrote: When Zest got his composition up even bronze protoss could have a-moved into victory. What were you thinking Rogue!!??!
Well he attempted at least 3 ling run-bys and 3 back door attacks. Zest just found the perfect counter to that strategy.
Yeah but Zest is the master at defending these kind of things
On June 30 2015 19:12 RaFox17 wrote: When Zest got his composition up even bronze protoss could have a-moved into victory. What were you thinking Rogue!!??!
Well he attempted at least 3 ling run-bys and 3 back door attacks. Zest just found the perfect counter to that strategy.
Yeah but Zest is the master at defending these kind of things
remember when Life beat him with zerglings at Blizzcon? good times
On June 30 2015 19:12 RaFox17 wrote: When Zest got his composition up even bronze protoss could have a-moved into victory. What were you thinking Rogue!!??!
Well he attempted at least 3 ling run-bys and 3 back door attacks. Zest just found the perfect counter to that strategy.
Yeah but Zest is the master at defending these kind of things
To be honest he was also defending 2-base economy and sitting in front of his natural most of the time. It was not that difficult for him.
On June 30 2015 19:04 Ramiz1989 wrote: Rogue is dead, he isn't getting any tech...
Yea so he doesn't die ~_~.
That's pretty much the first time I've heard this...
Well what would he really tech to? You can't give your opponent a window when they are Zest and you have to defend a position directly outside your opponent's base.
Rogue had <45drones. You need 55drones against Immortal allins. That's why he couldn't do anything.
The only way to hold that attack was with vipers. Even if you have more drones, it doesn't matter if you lose all your army and the protoss player loses ~30 supply. It actually hurts you because your maxed out army is smaller.
On June 30 2015 19:14 DarkLordOlli wrote: Should have played Maru.
on the map where Zest could luck out immortal bust?
Not like Expedition is a great protoss map. Everyone knows that Maru is their best shot at taking Zest out. Might as well cut the formalities and stop feeding and play Maru
On June 30 2015 19:12 RaFox17 wrote: When Zest got his composition up even bronze protoss could have a-moved into victory. What were you thinking Rogue!!??!
Well he attempted at least 3 ling run-bys and 3 back door attacks. Zest just found the perfect counter to that strategy.
Yeah but Zest is the master at defending these kind of things
remember when Life beat him with zerglings at Blizzcon? good times
Naughty KeSPA didn't want its players to succeed at BlizzCon for some reason
On June 30 2015 19:04 Ramiz1989 wrote: Rogue is dead, he isn't getting any tech...
Yea so he doesn't die ~_~.
That's pretty much the first time I've heard this...
Well what would he really tech to? You can't give your opponent a window when they are Zest and you have to defend a position directly outside your opponent's base.
Rogue had <45drones. You need 55drones against Immortal allins. That's why he couldn't do anything.
On June 30 2015 19:04 Ramiz1989 wrote: Rogue is dead, he isn't getting any tech...
Yea so he doesn't die ~_~.
That's pretty much the first time I've heard this...
Well what would he really tech to? You can't give your opponent a window when they are Zest and you have to defend a position directly outside your opponent's base.
Rogue had <45drones. You need 55drones against Immortal allins. That's why he couldn't do anything.
The only way to hold that attack was with vipers. Even if you have more drones, it doesn't matter if you lose all your army and the protoss player loses ~30 supply. It actually hurts you because your maxed out army is smaller.
Well, with 55drones you can hold the initial attack and then just either kill him with superior numbers or tech. With <50drones you have to keep on making roach/ling to not die and then you die to the maxout of Protoss. With >60drones you can't hold the initial attack if the Protoss just goes in.
Basically what you said, you need some higher tech (if you can't aggressively take out the Protoss force). But for that you need more economy. Otherwise the Protoss just kills you while you tech.
On June 30 2015 19:21 Caihead wrote: If Flash can beat herO Zest can beat Maru
yes
also i missed the first two games, can someone tell me if it was close or fast ?
First was DT vs no detection in time (DTs killed the robo) Second game was double gold by Rogue into contain, Zest just immo/sentry/stalkers into win Not even close
On June 30 2015 19:36 graNite wrote: I dont get why they are so Stalker heavy against someone how has only marauders every game...
If you don't have stalkers, you'd probably get dropped all over Collosi
It's still a mistake IMO. Against that style (no vikings) if you get 0 stalkers, chargelots and cannons in each base and can make some archons, you'll win. It's not easy, but Zest definitely wildly overmade stalkers.
On June 30 2015 19:36 MarianoSC2 wrote: Maru is a GOD against Terran and absolutely amazing against most Protoss if they dont have enough time to prepare. Only Life can beat him I think
Rain and herO made it look easy against him... also Maru is a GOD against terran????
On June 30 2015 19:36 graNite wrote: I dont get why they are so Stalker heavy against someone how has only marauders every game...
If you don't have stalkers, you'd probably get dropped all over Collosi
It's still a mistake IMO. Against that style (no vikings) if you get 0 stalkers, chargelots and cannons in each base and can make some archons, you'll win. It's not easy, but Zest definitely wildly overmade stalkers.
Then Maru will just drop the Colossi to death and doompush once the splash is gone. Zest just needed to play better.
On June 30 2015 19:36 graNite wrote: I dont get why they are so Stalker heavy against someone how has only marauders every game...
If you don't have stalkers, you'd probably get dropped all over Collosi
It's still a mistake IMO. Against that style (no vikings) if you get 0 stalkers, chargelots and cannons in each base and can make some archons, you'll win. It's not easy, but Zest definitely wildly overmade stalkers.
Well I'll take Zest's opinion over yours. Archons and cannons are not the answer to drops lol
On June 30 2015 19:36 MarianoSC2 wrote: Maru is a GOD against Terran and absolutely amazing against most Protoss if they dont have enough time to prepare. Only Life can beat him I think
Rain and herO made it look easy against him... also Maru is a GOD against terran????
On June 30 2015 19:36 graNite wrote: I dont get why they are so Stalker heavy against someone how has only marauders every game...
What else do you get? If you go zealots, Maru will just drop on your army and make colo pretty useless.
double robo colossus and immortals maybe?
That would mean certain death in early game or gas starved in mid.
Only way to play against Maru is either Rain style = perfect defence or cheese = Parting. Toss have to prepare builds to catch Maru off guard. Use phoenixes to counter drops in early game and then defend well enough to eventually kill him with deathball
I think in general the correct answer to maru's style is just to play defensively with the fairly standard unit composition, and continue to weather the storm while getting zealot (or DT) harass on the back of it. Or, just hit a huge timing.
On June 30 2015 19:36 graNite wrote: I dont get why they are so Stalker heavy against someone how has only marauders every game...
What else do you get? If you go zealots, Maru will just drop on your army and make colo pretty useless.
double robo colossus and immortals maybe?
That would mean certain death in early game or gas starved in mid.
Only way to play against Maru is either Rain style = perfect defence or cheese = Parting. Toss have to prepare builds to catch Maru off guard. Use phoenixes to counter drops in early game and then defend well enough to eventually kill him with deathball
To be fair, it's pretty hard to kill Maru with deathball pre-storm. Watch herO vs Maru (SSL) g1 for an example of this.
On June 30 2015 19:36 graNite wrote: I dont get why they are so Stalker heavy against someone how has only marauders every game...
If you don't have stalkers, you'd probably get dropped all over Collosi
It's still a mistake IMO. Against that style (no vikings) if you get 0 stalkers, chargelots and cannons in each base and can make some archons, you'll win. It's not easy, but Zest definitely wildly overmade stalkers.
play one game like that and see how hard it is to defend EVERYWHERE in your base. Are you gonna put fking cannons everywhere in your base whie trying to replace charelots, cannons, getting archons AND colossus, on how many bases???????
On June 30 2015 19:36 MarianoSC2 wrote: Maru is a GOD against Terran and absolutely amazing against most Protoss if they dont have enough time to prepare. Only Life can beat him I think
Rain and herO made it look easy against him... also Maru is a GOD against terran????
TvT is Marus best matchup by far. He almost always 2:0 every Terran he goes head to head with. Absolute GOD. Yeah Toss can stop him but Zest and Stats are not Rain or Parting. hero got lucky, Maru underestimated him in that match
On June 30 2015 19:41 Soularion wrote: I think in general the correct answer to maru's style is just to play defensively with the fairly standard unit composition, and continue to weather the storm while getting zealot (or DT) harass on the back of it. Or, just hit a huge timing.
well yeah myungsik (lol) and rain kind of laid the blueprint against the style. only myungsik never counter attacked or harassed and just collapsed by giving away colossi and his phoenixes to widow mine.
It did snowball a bit. He lost 11 probes he shouldn't have, then couldnt hold his third. Judging whether stalker collossi is good vs Maru from that point on is silly.
On June 30 2015 19:41 Soularion wrote: I think in general the correct answer to maru's style is just to play defensively with the fairly standard unit composition, and continue to weather the storm while getting zealot (or DT) harass on the back of it. Or, just hit a huge timing.
I don't even think you particularly need to harass. Have cannons and units in each base, play hugely defensive while relying on 5-6 colossi to hold any frontal push. DTs can be a great tool, especially if you have to basetrade.
On June 30 2015 19:41 Soularion wrote: I think in general the correct answer to maru's style is just to play defensively with the fairly standard unit composition, and continue to weather the storm while getting zealot (or DT) harass on the back of it. Or, just hit a huge timing.
well yeah myungsik (lol) and rain kind of laid the blueprint against the style. only myungsik never counter attacked or harassed and just collapsed by giving away colossi and his phoenixes to widow mine.
Yeah. It's just that not many protosses have the multitasking or perfect defense required. Of course, that's fair. A very high multitask style like Maru's style /should/ be hard to counter. Just as long as it's not impossible, it's perfectly fine.
On June 30 2015 19:36 MarianoSC2 wrote: Maru is a GOD against Terran and absolutely amazing against most Protoss if they dont have enough time to prepare. Only Life can beat him I think
Rain and herO made it look easy against him... also Maru is a GOD against terran????
TvT is Marus best matchup by far. He almost always 2:0 every Terran he goes head to head with. Absolute GOD.
Oh, i thought were gonna say Maru is a GOD for Terran
On June 30 2015 19:41 Soularion wrote: I think in general the correct answer to maru's style is just to play defensively with the fairly standard unit composition, and continue to weather the storm while getting zealot (or DT) harass on the back of it. Or, just hit a huge timing.
I don't even think you particularly need to harass. Have cannons and units in each base, play hugely defensive while relying on 5-6 colossi to hold any frontal push. DTs can be a great tool, especially if you have to basetrade.
Yeah, I don't think it's necessary. I just think Maru in particular has shown a good weakness to harass in the past - he's routinely lost mineral lines to baneling runbys, for example, so I think some light DT play could prove to be very, very effective at hitting him in a weak point. Not required, but effective.
On June 30 2015 19:38 Boanerges wrote: Get rekt! Zest 2 levels below Maru!
well isn't that a bit exagerated ?
Overall yeah, in PvT I think it's fair. Zest PvT has always been his weakness, he got around it sometimes but it got exposed numerous times in his career (vs Cure, vs Flash in IEM, not to mention TANTANG...).
On June 30 2015 19:41 Soularion wrote: I think in general the correct answer to maru's style is just to play defensively with the fairly standard unit composition, and continue to weather the storm while getting zealot (or DT) harass on the back of it. Or, just hit a huge timing.
There is no timing, terran just basetrades and wins. You have to survive and turtle like crazy until you have storm/colossus and are secured at every base. Then you attack. If at all possible, counter harass works wonders (but it's barely ever possible)
On June 30 2015 19:41 Soularion wrote: I think in general the correct answer to maru's style is just to play defensively with the fairly standard unit composition, and continue to weather the storm while getting zealot (or DT) harass on the back of it. Or, just hit a huge timing.
I don't even think you particularly need to harass. Have cannons and units in each base, play hugely defensive while relying on 5-6 colossi to hold any frontal push. DTs can be a great tool, especially if you have to basetrade.
Please stop theorycrafting. That doesn't work. You need mobility (phoenixes or blink stalkers), not money wasted on cannons and small pieces of protoss army spread out to die.
On June 30 2015 19:38 Boanerges wrote: Get rekt! Zest 2 levels below Maru!
well isn't that a bit exagerated ?
Overall yeah, in PvT I think it's fair. Zest PvT has always been his weakness, he got around it sometimes but it got exposed numerous times in his career (vs Cure, vs Flash in IEM...).
got 3-0ed by taeja as well. it's why i think that if he somehow fixes that matchup he would be unstoppable. he's a god in PvP (barring his creator kryptonite) and PvZ.
So I went to TLPD to check the record, very surprised that they played so few games against each other, only 9:6 in maps for Life in HoTS and NO games in the WoL Korean database whatsoever?!
On June 30 2015 19:41 Soularion wrote: I think in general the correct answer to maru's style is just to play defensively with the fairly standard unit composition, and continue to weather the storm while getting zealot (or DT) harass on the back of it. Or, just hit a huge timing.
There is no timing, terran just basetrades and wins. You have to survive and turtle like crazy until you have storm/colossus and are secured at every base. Then you attack. If at all possible, counter harass works wonders (but it's barely ever possible)
Can you link me a game where a terran successfully basetraded a top-tier protoss? I mean, the one game where a timing was hit that I watched - herO vs Maru - was incredibly close and only ended up a loss because Maru played beyond godlike. Really, I think all you need is either a strong upgrade timing (herO ended up fighting with 2/2 vs 2/2- if you can get 2/2 while terran is at 1/1 for a significant amount of time, this definitely works) or a storm/colo timing or harass damage. There's options.
On June 30 2015 19:38 Boanerges wrote: Get rekt! Zest 2 levels below Maru!
well isn't that a bit exagerated ?
Overall yeah, in PvT I think it's fair. Zest PvT has always been his weakness, he got around it sometimes but it got exposed numerous times in his career (vs Cure, vs Flash in IEM...).
got 3-0ed by taeja as well. it's why i think that if he somehow fixes that matchup he would be unstoppable. he's a god in PvP (barring his creator kryptonite) and PvZ.
On June 30 2015 19:36 graNite wrote: I dont get why they are so Stalker heavy against someone how has only marauders every game...
What else do you get? If you go zealots, Maru will just drop on your army and make colo pretty useless.
double robo colossus and immortals maybe?
That would mean certain death in early game or gas starved in mid.
Only way to play against Maru is either Rain style = perfect defence or cheese = Parting. Toss have to prepare builds to catch Maru off guard. Use phoenixes to counter drops in early game and then defend well enough to eventually kill him with deathball
To be fair, it's pretty hard to kill Maru with deathball pre-storm. Watch herO vs Maru (SSL) g1 for an example of this.
Yeah thats why I said you need perfect defence to counter drop and Marauder play. Force him to late game, force him to Vikings and kill him with Storm deathball. = Rain style
Or extreme cheese allins when hes unprepared = Parting.
On June 30 2015 19:36 graNite wrote: I dont get why they are so Stalker heavy against someone how has only marauders every game...
If you don't have stalkers, you'd probably get dropped all over Collosi
It's still a mistake IMO. Against that style (no vikings) if you get 0 stalkers, chargelots and cannons in each base and can make some archons, you'll win. It's not easy, but Zest definitely wildly overmade stalkers.
play one game like that and see how hard it is to defend EVERYWHERE in your base. Are you gonna put fking cannons everywhere in your base whie trying to replace charelots, cannons, getting archons AND colossus, on how many bases???????
Cannons don't work man. You cannot warp over cannons but terran can unload over cannons or speed over them. Cannons are just detectors for mines, since observers like to die to splash from sacrificial probe Edit> Also observers cost robo time and gas. Robo is so damn expensive ><
On June 30 2015 19:43 Pandemona wrote: Wait...MARU FKN TAYLOR SWIFT xD
What's wrong with Taylor Swift? I honestly don't know who is she, so... (or soO? :D)
On June 30 2015 19:36 graNite wrote: I dont get why they are so Stalker heavy against someone how has only marauders every game...
If you don't have stalkers, you'd probably get dropped all over Collosi
It's still a mistake IMO. Against that style (no vikings) if you get 0 stalkers, chargelots and cannons in each base and can make some archons, you'll win. It's not easy, but Zest definitely wildly overmade stalkers.
play one game like that and see how hard it is to defend EVERYWHERE in your base. Are you gonna put fking cannons everywhere in your base whie trying to replace charelots, cannons, getting archons AND colossus, on how many bases???????
Cannons don't work man. You cannot warp over cannons but terran can unload over cannons or speed over them. Cannons are just detectors for mines, since observers like to die to splash from sacrificial probe
On June 30 2015 19:41 Soularion wrote: I think in general the correct answer to maru's style is just to play defensively with the fairly standard unit composition, and continue to weather the storm while getting zealot (or DT) harass on the back of it. Or, just hit a huge timing.
There is no timing, terran just basetrades and wins. You have to survive and turtle like crazy until you have storm/colossus and are secured at every base. Then you attack. If at all possible, counter harass works wonders (but it's barely ever possible)
Can you link me a game where a terran successfully basetraded a top-tier protoss? I mean, the one game where a timing was hit that I watched - herO vs Maru - was incredibly close and only ended up a loss because Maru played beyond godlike. Really, I think all you need is either a strong upgrade timing (herO ended up fighting with 2/2 vs 2/2- if you can get 2/2 while terran is at 1/1 for a significant amount of time, this definitely works) or a storm/colo timing or harass damage. There's options.
Nobody tries timings against the headbashing style because terran basetrades. There's no game I can remember because nobody does it. It's just the worst thing you could possibly do. The only time you can attack against it is if you've killed a significant chunk of the terran army OR have survived until storm/colossus and good upgrades + cannons and templar at all your bases. Then you start doing counterharass that pulls terran back, then you use that timing to attack when they're not outside your base to boost in the second you leave. Basically what Rain did vs Maru on Vaani. That was textbook perfection.
On June 30 2015 19:36 graNite wrote: I dont get why they are so Stalker heavy against someone how has only marauders every game...
If you don't have stalkers, you'd probably get dropped all over Collosi
It's still a mistake IMO. Against that style (no vikings) if you get 0 stalkers, chargelots and cannons in each base and can make some archons, you'll win. It's not easy, but Zest definitely wildly overmade stalkers.
play one game like that and see how hard it is to defend EVERYWHERE in your base. Are you gonna put fking cannons everywhere in your base whie trying to replace charelots, cannons, getting archons AND colossus, on how many bases???????
Cannons don't work man. You cannot warp over cannons but terran can unload over cannons or speed over them. Cannons are just detectors for mines, since observers like to die to splash from sacrificial probe
On June 30 2015 19:43 Pandemona wrote: Wait...MARU FKN TAYLOR SWIFT xD
What's wrong with Taylor Swift? I honestly don't know who is she, so... (or soO? :D)
I bet you know who Taylor Swift is
Maybe I heard her somewhere, but I usually listen to my mp3 lists and ignore radio and stuff, so...
On June 30 2015 19:36 graNite wrote: I dont get why they are so Stalker heavy against someone how has only marauders every game...
If you don't have stalkers, you'd probably get dropped all over Collosi
It's still a mistake IMO. Against that style (no vikings) if you get 0 stalkers, chargelots and cannons in each base and can make some archons, you'll win. It's not easy, but Zest definitely wildly overmade stalkers.
play one game like that and see how hard it is to defend EVERYWHERE in your base. Are you gonna put fking cannons everywhere in your base whie trying to replace charelots, cannons, getting archons AND colossus, on how many bases???????
Cannons don't work man. You cannot warp over cannons but terran can unload over cannons or speed over them. Cannons are just detectors for mines, since observers like to die to splash from sacrificial probe
On June 30 2015 19:43 Pandemona wrote: Wait...MARU FKN TAYLOR SWIFT xD
What's wrong with Taylor Swift? I honestly don't know who is she, so... (or soO? :D)
I bet you know who Taylor Swift is
Maybe I heard her somewhere, but I usually listen to my mp3 lists and ignore radio and stuff, so...
I really don't know. Not trolling.
There's a 99.99% chance that you heard her somewhere I think
On June 30 2015 19:36 graNite wrote: I dont get why they are so Stalker heavy against someone how has only marauders every game...
If you don't have stalkers, you'd probably get dropped all over Collosi
It's still a mistake IMO. Against that style (no vikings) if you get 0 stalkers, chargelots and cannons in each base and can make some archons, you'll win. It's not easy, but Zest definitely wildly overmade stalkers.
play one game like that and see how hard it is to defend EVERYWHERE in your base. Are you gonna put fking cannons everywhere in your base whie trying to replace charelots, cannons, getting archons AND colossus, on how many bases???????
Cannons don't work man. You cannot warp over cannons but terran can unload over cannons or speed over them. Cannons are just detectors for mines, since observers like to die to splash from sacrificial probe
On June 30 2015 19:43 Pandemona wrote: Wait...MARU FKN TAYLOR SWIFT xD
What's wrong with Taylor Swift? I honestly don't know who is she, so... (or soO? :D)
I bet you know who Taylor Swift is
Maybe I heard her somewhere, but I usually listen to my mp3 lists and ignore radio and stuff, so...
I really don't know. Not trolling.
There's a 99.99% chance that you heard her somewhere I think
Well yeah, that's for sure. But I don't know what's so bad on using hers song I am bad at this culture stuff. I usually don't even watch new movies, I haven't seen the Game of Thrones, usually early game chat of Tastosis doesn't make much sense to me because of this
so what was bad about Life's game here? doing a scouted all-in and not winning vs a sieg tank? or dying to 1/1 bio with medivacs and tanks with slow roaches and slow banes?
On June 30 2015 19:57 Soularion wrote: TY can still stop Maru. His TvT has been really good. That's the only chance KT have, really.
No not in a best of 1. Stats Flash TY all capable of taking 1 map off of Maru quite comfortably.
Ehh... Maru is still strongly favored over Stats I think, and while I believe Flash/TY might be a smarter two against Maru, I don't think KT will do it.
On June 30 2015 19:57 Ej_ wrote: so what was bad about Life's game here? doing a scouted all-in and not winning vs a sieg tank? or dying to 1/1 bio with medivacs and tanks with slow roaches and slow banes?
On June 30 2015 19:57 Ej_ wrote: so what was bad about Life's game here? doing a scouted all-in and not winning vs a sieg tank? or dying to 1/1 bio with medivacs and tanks with slow roaches and slow banes?
On June 30 2015 19:56 sharkie wrote: Life has become so bad since joining KT
He played godly after joining KT. It's only recently he has shown worse play.
No... Life was top in the world when KT bought him
Yes but he kept being at the top of the world, only challenged by Maru, until sometime around May. Thus I think it's just a classic Life slump than something KT-related.
On June 30 2015 19:56 sharkie wrote: Life has become so bad since joining KT
He played godly after joining KT. It's only recently he has shown worse play.
It's something in between, he neither became "so bad" nor did he play "godly". It's just the nature of SC2 that there is no player who is dominant for a longer period.
On June 30 2015 19:36 graNite wrote: I dont get why they are so Stalker heavy against someone how has only marauders every game...
If you don't have stalkers, you'd probably get dropped all over Collosi
It's still a mistake IMO. Against that style (no vikings) if you get 0 stalkers, chargelots and cannons in each base and can make some archons, you'll win. It's not easy, but Zest definitely wildly overmade stalkers.
play one game like that and see how hard it is to defend EVERYWHERE in your base. Are you gonna put fking cannons everywhere in your base whie trying to replace charelots, cannons, getting archons AND colossus, on how many bases???????
Cannons don't work man. You cannot warp over cannons but terran can unload over cannons or speed over them. Cannons are just detectors for mines, since observers like to die to splash from sacrificial probe
On June 30 2015 19:43 Pandemona wrote: Wait...MARU FKN TAYLOR SWIFT xD
What's wrong with Taylor Swift? I honestly don't know who is she, so... (or soO? :D)
I bet you know who Taylor Swift is
Maybe I heard her somewhere, but I usually listen to my mp3 lists and ignore radio and stuff, so...
I really don't know. Not trolling.
blank space is one of my favorite songs and has an amazing melody. you can fight me.
On June 30 2015 19:57 Soularion wrote: TY can still stop Maru. His TvT has been really good. That's the only chance KT have, really.
No not in a best of 1. Stats Flash TY all capable of taking 1 map off of Maru quite comfortably.
Ehh... Maru is still strongly favored over Stats I think, and while I believe Flash/TY might be a smarter two against Maru, I don't think KT will do it.
It's best of 1. Maru can die at any time to a proxy stargate or blink all in vs protoss etc. In a best of 1 you have to be so prepared and so on point to not die to this and still do your own strategy. Maru in TvT is interesting too, i can see him dying to random openings but also to silly over commitments. But i fear for him vs Stats more than the others.
On June 30 2015 19:56 sharkie wrote: Life has become so bad since joining KT
He played godly after joining KT. It's only recently he has shown worse play.
It's something in between, he neither became "so bad" nor did he play "godly". It's just the nature of SC2 that there is no player who is dominant for a longer period.
Life from BlizzCon to some weeks after his GSL title was a player who just couldn't be challenged by anyone but Maru.
On June 30 2015 19:56 sharkie wrote: Life has become so bad since joining KT
He played godly after joining KT. It's only recently he has shown worse play.
It's something in between, he neither became "so bad" nor did he play "godly". It's just the nature of SC2 that there is no player who is dominant for a longer period.
Life from BlizzCon to some weeks after his GSL title was a player who just couldn't be challenged by anyone but Maru.
On June 30 2015 19:56 sharkie wrote: Life has become so bad since joining KT
He played godly after joining KT. It's only recently he has shown worse play.
It's something in between, he neither became "so bad" nor did he play "godly". It's just the nature of SC2 that there is no player who is dominant for a longer period.
Life from BlizzCon to some weeks after his GSL title was a player who just couldn't be challenged by anyone but Maru.
Life is just like that. He had his period of dominant then went on to look vulnerable then went back on form again.
On June 30 2015 19:56 sharkie wrote: Life has become so bad since joining KT
He played godly after joining KT. It's only recently he has shown worse play.
It's something in between, he neither became "so bad" nor did he play "godly". It's just the nature of SC2 that there is no player who is dominant for a longer period.
Life from BlizzCon to some weeks after his GSL title was a player who just couldn't be challenged by anyone but Maru.
yep life was unstoppable. even the 7 games series against maru he played hungover and destroyed maru after dropping 2 games due to "f2 army". even the players he lost to like forGG and Dream he crushed in their next meetings.
On June 30 2015 19:36 graNite wrote: I dont get why they are so Stalker heavy against someone how has only marauders every game...
If you don't have stalkers, you'd probably get dropped all over Collosi
It's still a mistake IMO. Against that style (no vikings) if you get 0 stalkers, chargelots and cannons in each base and can make some archons, you'll win. It's not easy, but Zest definitely wildly overmade stalkers.
play one game like that and see how hard it is to defend EVERYWHERE in your base. Are you gonna put fking cannons everywhere in your base whie trying to replace charelots, cannons, getting archons AND colossus, on how many bases???????
Cannons don't work man. You cannot warp over cannons but terran can unload over cannons or speed over them. Cannons are just detectors for mines, since observers like to die to splash from sacrificial probe
On June 30 2015 19:43 Pandemona wrote: Wait...MARU FKN TAYLOR SWIFT xD
What's wrong with Taylor Swift? I honestly don't know who is she, so... (or soO? :D)
I bet you know who Taylor Swift is
Maybe I heard her somewhere, but I usually listen to my mp3 lists and ignore radio and stuff, so...
I really don't know. Not trolling.
blank space is one of my favorite songs and has an amazing melody. you can fight me.
That's the song that made me notice her - until then I heard her name only as weird references everywhere, but was completely unaware of her music. Then I watched her on Jimmy Fallon and had to found out that she is also really sweet.
On June 30 2015 20:06 lastride wrote: Stats probably has a build prepared, otherwise they wouldnt send him considering Maru just demolished Zest in a standard game.
On June 30 2015 19:56 sharkie wrote: Life has become so bad since joining KT
He played godly after joining KT. It's only recently he has shown worse play.
It's something in between, he neither became "so bad" nor did he play "godly". It's just the nature of SC2 that there is no player who is dominant for a longer period.
Life from BlizzCon to some weeks after his GSL title was a player who just couldn't be challenged by anyone but Maru.
he barely beat Parting in a bo7.... Life made us believe that Parting can PvZ lol. I think Life's slump began around the time of GSL final
On June 30 2015 20:06 lastride wrote: Stats probably has a build prepared, otherwise they wouldnt send him considering Maru just demolished Zest in a standard game.
I hope so..
Maru went through Zest, Life and Stats in last rounds playoff semi. Looks like he may do it again.
On June 30 2015 19:36 graNite wrote: I dont get why they are so Stalker heavy against someone how has only marauders every game...
If you don't have stalkers, you'd probably get dropped all over Collosi
It's still a mistake IMO. Against that style (no vikings) if you get 0 stalkers, chargelots and cannons in each base and can make some archons, you'll win. It's not easy, but Zest definitely wildly overmade stalkers.
play one game like that and see how hard it is to defend EVERYWHERE in your base. Are you gonna put fking cannons everywhere in your base whie trying to replace charelots, cannons, getting archons AND colossus, on how many bases???????
Cannons don't work man. You cannot warp over cannons but terran can unload over cannons or speed over them. Cannons are just detectors for mines, since observers like to die to splash from sacrificial probe
On June 30 2015 19:43 Pandemona wrote: Wait...MARU FKN TAYLOR SWIFT xD
What's wrong with Taylor Swift? I honestly don't know who is she, so... (or soO? :D)
I bet you know who Taylor Swift is
Maybe I heard her somewhere, but I usually listen to my mp3 lists and ignore radio and stuff, so...
I really don't know. Not trolling.
blank space is one of my favorite songs and has an amazing melody. you can fight me.
That's the song that made me notice her - until then I heard her name only as weird references everywhere, but was completely unaware of her music. Then I watched her on Jimmy Fallon and had to found out that she is also really sweet.
yeah i had heard about her through cultural osmosis and about how she kept dating, breaking up, and writing songs about people. blank space was the first song/vid i watched and i found it really good/funny. haven't really heard any other songs by her though.
On June 30 2015 19:56 sharkie wrote: Life has become so bad since joining KT
He played godly after joining KT. It's only recently he has shown worse play.
It's something in between, he neither became "so bad" nor did he play "godly". It's just the nature of SC2 that there is no player who is dominant for a longer period.
Life from BlizzCon to some weeks after his GSL title was a player who just couldn't be challenged by anyone but Maru.
he barely beat Parting in a bo7.... Life made us believe that Parting can PvZ lol. I think Life's slump began around the time of GSL final
Are you serious ? PartinG's PvZ was very strong at the time...
On June 30 2015 19:36 graNite wrote: I dont get why they are so Stalker heavy against someone how has only marauders every game...
If you don't have stalkers, you'd probably get dropped all over Collosi
It's still a mistake IMO. Against that style (no vikings) if you get 0 stalkers, chargelots and cannons in each base and can make some archons, you'll win. It's not easy, but Zest definitely wildly overmade stalkers.
play one game like that and see how hard it is to defend EVERYWHERE in your base. Are you gonna put fking cannons everywhere in your base whie trying to replace charelots, cannons, getting archons AND colossus, on how many bases???????
Cannons don't work man. You cannot warp over cannons but terran can unload over cannons or speed over them. Cannons are just detectors for mines, since observers like to die to splash from sacrificial probe
On June 30 2015 19:43 Pandemona wrote: Wait...MARU FKN TAYLOR SWIFT xD
What's wrong with Taylor Swift? I honestly don't know who is she, so... (or soO? :D)
I bet you know who Taylor Swift is
Maybe I heard her somewhere, but I usually listen to my mp3 lists and ignore radio and stuff, so...
I really don't know. Not trolling.
blank space is one of my favorite songs and has an amazing melody. you can fight me.
Not bad, I was expecting it worse Although it is not my cup of tea I kinda can listen to it.
But I still rather switch to my favorite the And Then There Was Silence from Blind Guardian(the original version from 2002)
So, they play Stats on Vaani. Hmm... to me it doesn't make sense, but, well, go MARU!!!!
On June 30 2015 19:56 sharkie wrote: Life has become so bad since joining KT
He played godly after joining KT. It's only recently he has shown worse play.
It's something in between, he neither became "so bad" nor did he play "godly". It's just the nature of SC2 that there is no player who is dominant for a longer period.
Life from BlizzCon to some weeks after his GSL title was a player who just couldn't be challenged by anyone but Maru.
he barely beat Parting in a bo7.... Life made us believe that Parting can PvZ lol. I think Life's slump began around the time of GSL final
Parting was top2 PvZ in the world then, regardless to whether you say that herO is undisputed god of everything and PartinG bottom3 in the world
On June 30 2015 19:56 sharkie wrote: Life has become so bad since joining KT
He played godly after joining KT. It's only recently he has shown worse play.
It's something in between, he neither became "so bad" nor did he play "godly". It's just the nature of SC2 that there is no player who is dominant for a longer period.
Life from BlizzCon to some weeks after his GSL title was a player who just couldn't be challenged by anyone but Maru.
he barely beat Parting in a bo7.... Life made us believe that Parting can PvZ lol. I think Life's slump began around the time of GSL final
Are you serious ? PartinG's PvZ was very strong at the time...
Seriously. Two fucking rounds in a row. Sends Stats against Maru only to get slaughtered while perhaps the only use of FlaSh would be to take down Maru. I'm so pissed off.
On June 30 2015 20:16 OtherWorld wrote: Seriously. Two fucking rounds in a row. Sends Stats against Maru only to get slaughtered while perhaps the only use of FlaSh would be to take down Maru. I'm so pissed off.
Yeah, it's like when they sent Zest vs Maru in the ace match this round... wtf KT
On June 30 2015 20:16 Penev wrote: why calling "he's not paying attention" when you can't know that (and are proven wrong) Pls Wolf, not too much of it
That's what you get for not watching the superior Korean casting.
On June 30 2015 20:16 OtherWorld wrote: Seriously. Two fucking rounds in a row. Sends Stats against Maru only to get slaughtered while perhaps the only use of FlaSh would be to take down Maru. I'm so pissed off.
Yeah, it's like when they sent Zest vs Maru in the ace match this round... wtf KT
On June 30 2015 20:16 OtherWorld wrote: Seriously. Two fucking rounds in a row. Sends Stats against Maru only to get slaughtered while perhaps the only use of FlaSh would be to take down Maru. I'm so pissed off.
Yeah, it's like when they sent Zest vs Maru in the ace match this round... wtf KT
I am really trying to stop giving a fuck about it but it is so hard. With KT coaches decision they can literally forfeit vs JinAir. They dont have any snipe builds, they dont have anything special prepared vs the only player that gives them huge troubles. They just keep sending their standard players and tell them to do macro games and then they wondered why they get fucking destroyed every time. It is so stupid i just wanna give a huge middle finger to the KT coaching staff
I thought microing vs colossus where units are never in a line and the colossus only hit single units was only possible in theory before I saw Maru do it routinely.
On June 30 2015 20:16 Penev wrote: why calling "he's not paying attention" when you can't know that (and are proven wrong) Pls Wolf, not too much of it
That's what you get for not watching the superior Korean casting.
On June 30 2015 20:16 Penev wrote: why calling "he's not paying attention" when you can't know that (and are proven wrong) Pls Wolf, not too much of it
That's what you get for not watching the superior Korean casting.
On June 30 2015 20:16 OtherWorld wrote: Seriously. Two fucking rounds in a row. Sends Stats against Maru only to get slaughtered while perhaps the only use of FlaSh would be to take down Maru. I'm so pissed off.
Yeah, it's like when they sent Zest vs Maru in the ace match this round... wtf KT
I am really trying to stop giving a fuck about it but it is so hard. With KT coaches decision they can literally forfeit vs JinAir. They dont have any snipe builds, they dont have anything special prepared vs the only player that gives them huge troubles. They just keep sending their standard players and tell them to do macro games and then they wondered why they get fucking destroyed every time. It is so stupid i just wanna give a huge middle finger to the KT coaching staff
On June 30 2015 20:20 royalroadweed wrote: I thought microing vs colossus where units are never in a line and the colossus only hit single units was only possible in theory before I saw Maru do it routinely.
KT is a good Team, but they just don't have a single player that can compete with Maru. Thats their problem. Life can be that Guy, but not in his current form.
As I predicted, Life loss = over for KT.
Its still possible for Flash to do a miracle, but Marus TvT is even better then TvP, I just dont see it happening
On June 30 2015 20:22 MarianoSC2 wrote: KT is a good Team, but they just don't have a single player that can compete with Maru. Thats their problem. Life can be that Guy, but not in his current form.
As I predicted, Life loss = over for KT.
Its still possible for Flash to do a miracle, but Marus TvT is even better then TvP, I just dont see it happening
On June 30 2015 20:16 OtherWorld wrote: Seriously. Two fucking rounds in a row. Sends Stats against Maru only to get slaughtered while perhaps the only use of FlaSh would be to take down Maru. I'm so pissed off.
Yeah, it's like when they sent Zest vs Maru in the ace match this round... wtf KT
I am really trying to stop giving a fuck about it but it is so hard. With KT coaches decision they can literally forfeit vs JinAir. They dont have any snipe builds, they dont have anything special prepared vs the only player that gives them huge troubles. They just keep sending their standard players and tell them to do macro games and then they wondered why they get fucking destroyed every time. It is so stupid i just wanna give a huge middle finger to the KT coaching staff
I typically like to think that we don't have enough information about behind the scenes to make judgements but seriously this coaching staff is terrible. Not only their strategy and player picks for situations but even how badly the players have been underperforming.
Flash's play fell off a cliff from last year. Same with Zest and TY. When Stats was our lone hope we kept refusing to send him in ace matches. Then we pick up Life who is on a hell of a run and the same happens to him. Now when Stats is clearly struggling over the last month they refuse to send Flash or TY against Maru (who has been single handedly fucking us in this PL season). What a bunch of clowns.
On June 30 2015 20:21 Elentos wrote: I see KT staff still doesn't understand Protoss players are donations to Maru.
I would say they know, but they need the player to be able to win against Maru and THEN win against who comes next - Stats was good choice. BUT on another map! Vaani is ridiculously good for Maru and his PvT style.
At this point I'm not sure either Flash or TY can really handle the pressure of being the team's last player and having to play against Maru. Which is why I'm baffled they sent out Stats on Vaani -.-
On June 30 2015 20:22 MarianoSC2 wrote: KT is a good Team, but they just don't have a single player that can compete with Maru. Thats their problem. Life can be that Guy, but not in his current form.
As I predicted, Life loss = over for KT.
Its still possible for Flash to do a miracle, but Marus TvT is even better then TvP, I just dont see it happening
On June 30 2015 20:25 MiniFotToss wrote: KT's should be begging KeSPa: can we PLZ field Rain to kill Maru, LOL, I mean he has been in our teamhouse in so many weeks
On June 30 2015 20:16 OtherWorld wrote: Seriously. Two fucking rounds in a row. Sends Stats against Maru only to get slaughtered while perhaps the only use of FlaSh would be to take down Maru. I'm so pissed off.
Yeah, it's like when they sent Zest vs Maru in the ace match this round... wtf KT
I am really trying to stop giving a fuck about it but it is so hard. With KT coaches decision they can literally forfeit vs JinAir. They dont have any snipe builds, they dont have anything special prepared vs the only player that gives them huge troubles. They just keep sending their standard players and tell them to do macro games and then they wondered why they get fucking destroyed every time. It is so stupid i just wanna give a huge middle finger to the KT coaching staff
I typically like to think that we don't have enough information about behind the scenes to make judgements but seriously this coaching staff is terrible. Not only their strategy and player picks for situations but even how badly the players have been underperforming.
Flash's play fell off a cliff from last year. Same with Zest and TY. When Stats was our lone hope we kept refusing to send him in ace matches. Then we pick up Life who is on a hell of a run and the same happens to him. Now when Stats is clearly struggling over the last month they refuse to send Flash or TY against Maru (who has been single handedly fucking us in this PL season). What a bunch of clowns.
Of course we don't know whats going on but i don't really care if Protoss is 769-2 in PvT in practice. He obviously isn't playing Maru all the time and some point the coaches have to realize the fucking macro games won't work. But they dont, either because they are stubborn or stupid. And I dont know which is worse
On June 30 2015 20:21 Elentos wrote: I see KT staff still doesn't understand Protoss players are donations to Maru.
I would say they know, but they need the player to be able to win against Maru and THEN win against who comes next - Stats was good choice. BUT on another map! Vaani is ridiculously good for Maru and his PvT style.
But realistically, who would Jin Air field after Maru? Cure? I don't think so. Probably Trap. And both Flash and TY have won their last games vs Trap. Not to mention if you send out TY or Flash on Vaani and they beat Maru KT still has a guy left for whoever Jin Air sends out after Maru.
On June 30 2015 20:16 OtherWorld wrote: Seriously. Two fucking rounds in a row. Sends Stats against Maru only to get slaughtered while perhaps the only use of FlaSh would be to take down Maru. I'm so pissed off.
Yeah, it's like when they sent Zest vs Maru in the ace match this round... wtf KT
I am really trying to stop giving a fuck about it but it is so hard. With KT coaches decision they can literally forfeit vs JinAir. They dont have any snipe builds, they dont have anything special prepared vs the only player that gives them huge troubles. They just keep sending their standard players and tell them to do macro games and then they wondered why they get fucking destroyed every time. It is so stupid i just wanna give a huge middle finger to the KT coaching staff
Amen brother
I thought we would be ok with Ryu Won joining but nothing has gone better since.
On June 30 2015 20:16 OtherWorld wrote: Seriously. Two fucking rounds in a row. Sends Stats against Maru only to get slaughtered while perhaps the only use of FlaSh would be to take down Maru. I'm so pissed off.
Yeah, it's like when they sent Zest vs Maru in the ace match this round... wtf KT
I am really trying to stop giving a fuck about it but it is so hard. With KT coaches decision they can literally forfeit vs JinAir. They dont have any snipe builds, they dont have anything special prepared vs the only player that gives them huge troubles. They just keep sending their standard players and tell them to do macro games and then they wondered why they get fucking destroyed every time. It is so stupid i just wanna give a huge middle finger to the KT coaching staff
I typically like to think that we don't have enough information about behind the scenes to make judgements but seriously this coaching staff is terrible. Not only their strategy and player picks for situations but even how badly the players have been underperforming.
Flash's play fell off a cliff from last year. Same with Zest and TY. When Stats was our lone hope we kept refusing to send him in ace matches. Then we pick up Life who is on a hell of a run and the same happens to him. Now when Stats is clearly struggling over the last month they refuse to send Flash or TY against Maru (who has been single handedly fucking us in this PL season). What a bunch of clowns.
I didn't notice until you pointed it out but Maru is currently 10-0 vs KT in 2015 Proleague.
Zest has no practice partners that play the headbashing style. Flash plays the exact opposite of it. TY does silly builds and the rest ain't good enough.
On June 30 2015 20:28 DarkLordOlli wrote: Zest has no practice partners that play the headbashing style. Flash plays the exact opposite of it. TY does silly builds and the rest ain't good enough.
On Flash's stream he was playing Medivac mine mass drop style the other day in his games vs Protoss
On June 30 2015 20:16 OtherWorld wrote: Seriously. Two fucking rounds in a row. Sends Stats against Maru only to get slaughtered while perhaps the only use of FlaSh would be to take down Maru. I'm so pissed off.
Yeah, it's like when they sent Zest vs Maru in the ace match this round... wtf KT
I am really trying to stop giving a fuck about it but it is so hard. With KT coaches decision they can literally forfeit vs JinAir. They dont have any snipe builds, they dont have anything special prepared vs the only player that gives them huge troubles. They just keep sending their standard players and tell them to do macro games and then they wondered why they get fucking destroyed every time. It is so stupid i just wanna give a huge middle finger to the KT coaching staff
I typically like to think that we don't have enough information about behind the scenes to make judgements but seriously this coaching staff is terrible. Not only their strategy and player picks for situations but even how badly the players have been underperforming.
Flash's play fell off a cliff from last year. Same with Zest and TY. When Stats was our lone hope we kept refusing to send him in ace matches. Then we pick up Life who is on a hell of a run and the same happens to him. Now when Stats is clearly struggling over the last month they refuse to send Flash or TY against Maru (who has been single handedly fucking us in this PL season). What a bunch of clowns.
I didn't notice until you pointed it out but Maru is currently 10-0 vs KT in 2015 Proleague.
On June 30 2015 20:28 DarkLordOlli wrote: Zest has no practice partners that play the headbashing style. Flash plays the exact opposite of it. TY does silly builds and the rest ain't good enough.
herO doesn't have any practice partners that play the Snute SH style, he still improved and actually became the best anti-SH protoss player in the world.
On June 30 2015 20:16 OtherWorld wrote: Seriously. Two fucking rounds in a row. Sends Stats against Maru only to get slaughtered while perhaps the only use of FlaSh would be to take down Maru. I'm so pissed off.
Yeah, it's like when they sent Zest vs Maru in the ace match this round... wtf KT
I am really trying to stop giving a fuck about it but it is so hard. With KT coaches decision they can literally forfeit vs JinAir. They dont have any snipe builds, they dont have anything special prepared vs the only player that gives them huge troubles. They just keep sending their standard players and tell them to do macro games and then they wondered why they get fucking destroyed every time. It is so stupid i just wanna give a huge middle finger to the KT coaching staff
I typically like to think that we don't have enough information about behind the scenes to make judgements but seriously this coaching staff is terrible. Not only their strategy and player picks for situations but even how badly the players have been underperforming.
Flash's play fell off a cliff from last year. Same with Zest and TY. When Stats was our lone hope we kept refusing to send him in ace matches. Then we pick up Life who is on a hell of a run and the same happens to him. Now when Stats is clearly struggling over the last month they refuse to send Flash or TY against Maru (who has been single handedly fucking us in this PL season). What a bunch of clowns.
I didn't notice until you pointed it out but Maru is currently 10-0 vs KT in 2015 Proleague.
Undefeated even? I thought it would be along the lines of 12-3 but this is a disaster. Kt basicly has to 3-1 or 3-0 JinAir because Maru wrecks the ace anyway
On June 30 2015 20:16 OtherWorld wrote: Seriously. Two fucking rounds in a row. Sends Stats against Maru only to get slaughtered while perhaps the only use of FlaSh would be to take down Maru. I'm so pissed off.
Yeah, it's like when they sent Zest vs Maru in the ace match this round... wtf KT
I am really trying to stop giving a fuck about it but it is so hard. With KT coaches decision they can literally forfeit vs JinAir. They dont have any snipe builds, they dont have anything special prepared vs the only player that gives them huge troubles. They just keep sending their standard players and tell them to do macro games and then they wondered why they get fucking destroyed every time. It is so stupid i just wanna give a huge middle finger to the KT coaching staff
Amen brother
I thought we would be ok with Ryu Won joining but nothing has gone better since.
They've gotten worse since he joined. Particularly their terrans, which is surprising.
On June 30 2015 20:28 DarkLordOlli wrote: Zest has no practice partners that play the headbashing style. Flash plays the exact opposite of it. TY does silly builds and the rest ain't good enough.
TY can do the headbashing style better than most Terrans.
On June 30 2015 20:21 Elentos wrote: I see KT staff still doesn't understand Protoss players are donations to Maru.
I would say they know, but they need the player to be able to win against Maru and THEN win against who comes next - Stats was good choice. BUT on another map! Vaani is ridiculously good for Maru and his PvT style.
Meh. It's better to send a player with a decent chance of beating Maru, and a lower chance of beating who comes next, than to send someone with a lower chance of beating Maru but a decent chance of beating who comes nextx.
On June 30 2015 20:28 DarkLordOlli wrote: Zest has no practice partners that play the headbashing style. Flash plays the exact opposite of it. TY does silly builds and the rest ain't good enough.
TY can do the headbashing style better than most Terrans.
exactly that's no excuse. Rain practiced with Fantasy and Flash to prepare for Maru. Zest actually has a pretty good defensive protoss style when he chooses to play it but at this point Maru is the boogeyman for KT protoss.
On June 30 2015 20:28 DarkLordOlli wrote: Zest has no practice partners that play the headbashing style. Flash plays the exact opposite of it. TY does silly builds and the rest ain't good enough.
herO doesn't have any practice partners that play the Snute SH style, he still improved and actually became the best anti-SH protoss player in the world.
That's no excuse.
I'm actually wondering if herO didn't practice with Snute after Toronto d:
On June 30 2015 20:21 Elentos wrote: I see KT staff still doesn't understand Protoss players are donations to Maru.
I would say they know, but they need the player to be able to win against Maru and THEN win against who comes next - Stats was good choice. BUT on another map! Vaani is ridiculously good for Maru and his PvT style.
Meh. It's better to send a player with a decent chance of beating Maru, and a lower chance of beating who comes next, than to send someone with a lower chance of beating Maru but a decent chance of beating who comes nextx.
Of course. It's already hard to beat Maru, they should not think too much about next game. Just focus on taking down Maru and then if that happens think of a way to somehow grab the victory. I'd definitely send Flash or TY.
On June 30 2015 20:28 DarkLordOlli wrote: Zest has no practice partners that play the headbashing style. Flash plays the exact opposite of it. TY does silly builds and the rest ain't good enough.
herO doesn't have any practice partners that play the Snute SH style, he still improved and actually became the best anti-SH protoss player in the world.
That's no excuse.
Why do you say he was the best anti SH player? Because of that game vs curious where he built random units without a gameplan and hoped for the best? Or because his blink stalkers timings hit before swarm host popped out?
On June 30 2015 20:21 Elentos wrote: I see KT staff still doesn't understand Protoss players are donations to Maru.
I would say they know, but they need the player to be able to win against Maru and THEN win against who comes next - Stats was good choice. BUT on another map! Vaani is ridiculously good for Maru and his PvT style.
But realistically, who would Jin Air field after Maru? Cure? I don't think so. Probably Trap. And both Flash and TY have won their last games vs Trap. Not to mention if you send out TY or Flash on Vaani and they beat Maru KT still has a guy left for whoever Jin Air sends out after Maru.
I agree, that's why I mentioned that the choice wasn't good for Vaani. There is better to play TvT against Maru. PvT or ZvT doesn't make sense on that map vs Maru, IMO.
On June 30 2015 20:21 Elentos wrote: I see KT staff still doesn't understand Protoss players are donations to Maru.
I would say they know, but they need the player to be able to win against Maru and THEN win against who comes next - Stats was good choice. BUT on another map! Vaani is ridiculously good for Maru and his PvT style.
Meh. It's better to send a player with a decent chance of beating Maru, and a lower chance of beating who comes next, than to send someone with a lower chance of beating Maru but a decent chance of beating who comes nextx.
Maru is the only obstacle for KT. You send out whoever you can to beat him because I would give any other KT player a >50% chance of beating anyone else in JAGW's lineup. Especially since Flash wouldn't have had to face sOs.
On June 30 2015 20:28 DarkLordOlli wrote: Zest has no practice partners that play the headbashing style. Flash plays the exact opposite of it. TY does silly builds and the rest ain't good enough.
herO doesn't have any practice partners that play the Snute SH style, he still improved and actually became the best anti-SH protoss player in the world.
That's no excuse.
It's not like that's a hard style to replicate, any korean zerg can do it (and did). CJ zergs were no exception. Maru's style on the other hand is nothing like that. Maru and Cure can do it at that level, Dream can do it. That's it.
On June 30 2015 20:28 DarkLordOlli wrote: Zest has no practice partners that play the headbashing style. Flash plays the exact opposite of it. TY does silly builds and the rest ain't good enough.
herO doesn't have any practice partners that play the Snute SH style, he still improved and actually became the best anti-SH protoss player in the world.
That's no excuse.
Aren't you forgetting the time when Snute beat herO twice at IEM Toronto?
On June 30 2015 20:28 DarkLordOlli wrote: Zest has no practice partners that play the headbashing style. Flash plays the exact opposite of it. TY does silly builds and the rest ain't good enough.
TY can do the headbashing style better than most Terrans.
TY and Fantasy can come close. Other than that, cure could be a good choice as well. His style where he splits his units and burrows WM where dropping is similar to maru's. Last time I checked kt terrans were helping sOs against Innovation at Hot6ix cup. So maybe some practice with cure is possible.
On June 30 2015 20:28 DarkLordOlli wrote: Zest has no practice partners that play the headbashing style. Flash plays the exact opposite of it. TY does silly builds and the rest ain't good enough.
herO doesn't have any practice partners that play the Snute SH style, he still improved and actually became the best anti-SH protoss player in the world.
That's no excuse.
Aren't you forgetting the time when Snute beat herO twice at IEM Toronto?
That's exactly when herO started practising for it. Because Snute beat him
On June 30 2015 20:28 DarkLordOlli wrote: Zest has no practice partners that play the headbashing style. Flash plays the exact opposite of it. TY does silly builds and the rest ain't good enough.
I agree, but the problem IMO is only Maru and Dream are really good at those, impossible to sign those 2 and the rest of terrans are just too many steps below.
On June 30 2015 20:28 DarkLordOlli wrote: Zest has no practice partners that play the headbashing style. Flash plays the exact opposite of it. TY does silly builds and the rest ain't good enough.
TY can do the headbashing style better than most Terrans.
TY and Fantasy can come close. Other than that, cure could be a good choice as well. His style where he splits his units and burrows WM where dropping is similar to maru's. Last time I checked kt terrans were helping sOs against Innovation at Hot6ix cup. So maybe some practice with cure is possible.
On June 30 2015 20:28 DarkLordOlli wrote: Zest has no practice partners that play the headbashing style. Flash plays the exact opposite of it. TY does silly builds and the rest ain't good enough.
herO doesn't have any practice partners that play the Snute SH style, he still improved and actually became the best anti-SH protoss player in the world.
That's no excuse.
It's not like that's a hard style to replicate, any korean zerg can do it (and did). CJ zergs were no exception. Maru's style on the other hand is nothing like that. Maru and Cure can do it at that level, Dream can do it. That's it.
Cure hasn't been doing it on that level since late 2014.
ok enough of the doom and gloom and the rightful KT coach bashing.. let's do this Flash. keep that hype train chugging. we can forget about the Sacsri loss after you save KT.
On June 30 2015 20:28 DarkLordOlli wrote: Zest has no practice partners that play the headbashing style. Flash plays the exact opposite of it. TY does silly builds and the rest ain't good enough.
herO doesn't have any practice partners that play the Snute SH style, he still improved and actually became the best anti-SH protoss player in the world.
That's no excuse.
Aren't you forgetting the time when Snute beat herO twice at IEM Toronto?
Aren't you forgetting the time when herO reverse beat Snute's SH's the next time they met in IEM San Jose
On June 30 2015 20:28 DarkLordOlli wrote: Zest has no practice partners that play the headbashing style. Flash plays the exact opposite of it. TY does silly builds and the rest ain't good enough.
I agree, but the problem IMO is only Maru and Dream are really good at those, impossible to sign those 2 and the rest of terrans are just too many steps below.
Maru won't practice with Zest, neither will Dream. No way coaches let that happen. If Zest gets his PvT right, he will all kill teams again. They won't take that risk. Cure won't either because same reason. Fantasy maybe? Flash isn't good enough at headbashing. Bbyong maybe, but not good enough. And that's all the terrans that do it.
On June 30 2015 20:28 DarkLordOlli wrote: Zest has no practice partners that play the headbashing style. Flash plays the exact opposite of it. TY does silly builds and the rest ain't good enough.
I agree, but the problem IMO is only Maru and Dream are really good at those, impossible to sign those 2 and the rest of terrans are just too many steps below.
Maru won't practice with Zest, neither will Dream. No way coaches let that happen. If Zest gets his PvT right, he will all kill teams again. They won't take that risk. Cure won't either because same reason. Fantasy maybe? Flash isn't good enough at headbashing. Bbyong maybe, but not good enough. And that's all the terrans that do it.
KT should try to clone maru with japanese technology, imo that's the only thing possible
On June 30 2015 20:28 DarkLordOlli wrote: Zest has no practice partners that play the headbashing style. Flash plays the exact opposite of it. TY does silly builds and the rest ain't good enough.
I agree, but the problem IMO is only Maru and Dream are really good at those, impossible to sign those 2 and the rest of terrans are just too many steps below.
Maru won't practice with Zest, neither will Dream. No way coaches let that happen. If Zest gets his PvT right, he will all kill teams again. They won't take that risk. Cure won't either because same reason. Fantasy maybe? Flash isn't good enough at headbashing. Bbyong maybe, but not good enough. And that's all the terrans that do it.
That's ridicilous. herO practices both with Flash and Maru. Coaches don't decide who their player practices with. It's the players who do that.
On June 30 2015 20:28 DarkLordOlli wrote: Zest has no practice partners that play the headbashing style. Flash plays the exact opposite of it. TY does silly builds and the rest ain't good enough.
I agree, but the problem IMO is only Maru and Dream are really good at those, impossible to sign those 2 and the rest of terrans are just too many steps below.
Maru won't practice with Zest, neither will Dream. No way coaches let that happen. If Zest gets his PvT right, he will all kill teams again. They won't take that risk. Cure won't either because same reason. Fantasy maybe? Flash isn't good enough at headbashing. Bbyong maybe, but not good enough. And that's all the terrans that do it.
TY can do it. He can do it pretty well. Better than most because his multitasking is great.
On June 30 2015 20:36 JoeCool wrote: I guess I will never understand why Flash gets that much hype, this guy is mediocre at best.
Because he was the greatest Brood War player before he transitioned to SC2. Naturally people immediately expect him to become the best.
Tbh if I was a fan I probably would want him to retire so that his legacy remains without his less successfull journey to Sc2... but that's probably just me.
Edit: On a second thought, he probably attracts viewers.
On June 30 2015 20:28 DarkLordOlli wrote: Zest has no practice partners that play the headbashing style. Flash plays the exact opposite of it. TY does silly builds and the rest ain't good enough.
I agree, but the problem IMO is only Maru and Dream are really good at those, impossible to sign those 2 and the rest of terrans are just too many steps below.
Maru won't practice with Zest, neither will Dream. No way coaches let that happen. If Zest gets his PvT right, he will all kill teams again. They won't take that risk. Cure won't either because same reason. Fantasy maybe? Flash isn't good enough at headbashing. Bbyong maybe, but not good enough. And that's all the terrans that do it.
TY can do it. He can do it pretty well. Better than most because his multitasking is great.
He doesn't have the control necessary. He can multitask well but that's not what matters. Zest can do that too. Unless you can snipe colossi with pure bio and that sorta stuff consistently, you're not gonna win with this.
On June 30 2015 20:41 BlackCompany wrote: Lets be honest, who thought Flash wouldnt get his reaper sourrounded? Thats just something he always does in these situations
On June 30 2015 20:28 DarkLordOlli wrote: Zest has no practice partners that play the headbashing style. Flash plays the exact opposite of it. TY does silly builds and the rest ain't good enough.
I agree, but the problem IMO is only Maru and Dream are really good at those, impossible to sign those 2 and the rest of terrans are just too many steps below.
Maru won't practice with Zest, neither will Dream. No way coaches let that happen. If Zest gets his PvT right, he will all kill teams again. They won't take that risk. Cure won't either because same reason. Fantasy maybe? Flash isn't good enough at headbashing. Bbyong maybe, but not good enough. And that's all the terrans that do it.
TY can do it. He can do it pretty well. Better than most because his multitasking is great.
He doesn't have the control necessary. He can multitask well but that's not what matters. Zest can do that too. Unless you can snipe colossi with pure bio and that sorta stuff consistently, you're not gonna win with this.
they should make zest play a 1vs2 terran to compensate the fact that no other terrans plays like maru
On June 30 2015 20:41 stargunner wrote: such scrappy/bad play..
they just chose to prioritise different fights... no terran could micro both those fights simultaneously. He really should've just ran the reaper away while he stopped the marauders
On June 30 2015 20:41 BlackCompany wrote: Lets be honest, who thought Flash wouldnt get his reaper sourrounded? Thats just something he always does in these situations
RETIREMENT TIME
Not really. But i see you are unbanned so you can start shitting on players again
On June 30 2015 20:36 JoeCool wrote: I guess I will never understand why Flash gets that much hype, this guy is mediocre at best.
Because he was the greatest Brood War player before he transitioned to SC2. Naturally people immediately expect him to become the best.
Tbh if I was a fan I probably would want him to retire so that his legacy remains without his less successfull journey to Sc2... but that's probably just me.
Edit: On a second thought, he probably attracts viewers.
He consistently gets played and had two great seasons before this one. What more could Flash fans want? One bad season and everyone trashes him. It was much harder as Bisu fan because he never got the opportunities like Flash, JD, or even Stork. If you favorite player isn't getting played then you can start hoping for retirement so your heart isn't strung along.
On June 30 2015 20:41 stargunner wrote: such scrappy/bad play..
they just chose to prioritise different fights... no terran could micro both those fights simultaneously. He really should've just ran the reaper away while he stopped the marauders
A true bonjwa would micro both fights flawlessly simultaneously!
Maru can be beaten in TvT only by super duper cheese build. TY actually could do it maybe. Flash? Never. Maru TvT is simply Godlike. He is a player of a completely different caliber
TY is actually one of the few players who i think could beat Maru in a TvT, presuming its like GSL Ro32-level TY. Unfortunately, gotta get that Flash $$$$
On June 30 2015 20:47 MarianoSC2 wrote: KT worst coaches confirmed...
Maru can be beaten in TvT only by super duper cheese build. TY actually could do it maybe. Flash? Never. Maru TvT is simply Godlike. He is a player of a completely different caliber
What choice did they have? Zest, Stats and Life are all down.
On June 30 2015 20:47 OtherWorld wrote: Well, at least JAGW will beat SKT EZ
I don't know if anyone in the world can say he'll beat Classic easily now. And it's not like the rest of SKT lineup is too bad with soO, Dark, Dream, the mighty Zoun...
I think i know what the KT coaches thought before the game: "Hey look this Maru is kinda good. You know what we should do? WE PLAY ONLY MACRO GAMES AND SEND LOTS OF PROTOSS! HAH! HE WILL NEVER EXPECT THAT"
On June 30 2015 20:47 MarianoSC2 wrote: KT worst coaches confirmed...
Maru can be beaten in TvT only by super duper cheese build. TY actually could do it maybe. Flash? Never. Maru TvT is simply Godlike. He is a player of a completely different caliber
It's not that Maru played particularly well. It's more that Flash threw.
On June 30 2015 20:47 MarianoSC2 wrote: KT worst coaches confirmed...
Maru can be beaten in TvT only by super duper cheese build. TY actually could do it maybe. Flash? Never. Maru TvT is simply Godlike. He is a player of a completely different caliber
What choice did they have? Zest, Stats and Life are all down.
I think TY would have been a better choice stylistically. Arguably they had little chance to win anyway but Flash was really really unlikely to beat Maru.
On June 30 2015 20:47 MarianoSC2 wrote: KT worst coaches confirmed...
Maru can be beaten in TvT only by super duper cheese build. TY actually could do it maybe. Flash? Never. Maru TvT is simply Godlike. He is a player of a completely different caliber
What choice did they have? Zest, Stats and Life are all down.
They should have sent TY in stead of Stats and Pray. This was just a donated game to Jin Air
On June 30 2015 20:48 BlackCompany wrote: I think i know what the KT coaches thought before the game: "Hey look this Maru is kinda good. You know what we should do? WE PLAY ONLY MACRO GAMES AND SEND LOTS OF PROTOSS! HAH! HE WILL NEVER EXPECT THAT"
Only Zest played macro vs Maru... Stats and Life cheesed
On June 30 2015 20:47 MarianoSC2 wrote: KT worst coaches confirmed...
Maru can be beaten in TvT only by super duper cheese build. TY actually could do it maybe. Flash? Never. Maru TvT is simply Godlike. He is a player of a completely different caliber
What choice did they have? Zest, Stats and Life are all down.
They should have sent TY in stead of Stats and Pray. This was just a donated game to Jin Air
TY just wasn't ready for the level of pressure according to Wolf.
Well Dream lost exactly the same way against Maru in SSL finals on overgrowth (defending but loosing reaper), and INnoVation lost to the same build on Vaani, no need to bully Flash.
The real bad performance of the evening was Life's one.
On June 30 2015 20:47 OtherWorld wrote: Well, at least JAGW will beat SKT EZ
I don't know if anyone in the world can say he'll beat Classic easily now. And it's not like the rest of SKT lineup is too bad with soO, Dark, Dream, the mighty Zoun...
Haven't seen Innovation play for quite sometime (probably because I did not watch much sc2 lately) is he still the mayor of slumpcity?
On June 30 2015 20:47 MarianoSC2 wrote: KT worst coaches confirmed...
Maru can be beaten in TvT only by super duper cheese build. TY actually could do it maybe. Flash? Never. Maru TvT is simply Godlike. He is a player of a completely different caliber
What choice did they have? Zest, Stats and Life are all down.
They should have sent TY in stead of Stats and Pray. This was just a donated game to Jin Air
Maru TvT is too good to send 2 T's at him. Stats was easily the right call
On June 30 2015 20:47 MarianoSC2 wrote: KT worst coaches confirmed...
Maru can be beaten in TvT only by super duper cheese build. TY actually could do it maybe. Flash? Never. Maru TvT is simply Godlike. He is a player of a completely different caliber
What choice did they have? Zest, Stats and Life are all down.
You play TY cause he is a lot better than Flash when he is on form. Flash simply is mediocre at micro, there i said it again, no chance vs someone like Maru when he forces you into micro battles.
On June 30 2015 20:49 Elentos wrote: As I said, the pressure of being the last player is too high for Flash. Shoulda sent him out on Vaani. Or TY, for that matter.
Oh well, gogo SKT.
FlaSh can live very well with the pressure. It's his level of play (compared to Maru) that is the problem.
On June 30 2015 20:49 Scarecrow wrote: Flash held the cheese well enough and was one second of reaper micro away from winning. Why is he getting trashed like he could never beat maru?
cause 1 second means everything in sc2 and its a mistake that shouldnt happen on this level
On June 30 2015 20:47 MarianoSC2 wrote: KT worst coaches confirmed...
Maru can be beaten in TvT only by super duper cheese build. TY actually could do it maybe. Flash? Never. Maru TvT is simply Godlike. He is a player of a completely different caliber
What choice did they have? Zest, Stats and Life are all down.
They should have sent TY in stead of Stats and Pray. This was just a donated game to Jin Air
TY just wasn't ready for the level of pressure according to Wolf.
On June 30 2015 20:47 MarianoSC2 wrote: KT worst coaches confirmed...
Maru can be beaten in TvT only by super duper cheese build. TY actually could do it maybe. Flash? Never. Maru TvT is simply Godlike. He is a player of a completely different caliber
What choice did they have? Zest, Stats and Life are all down.
They should have sent TY in stead of Stats and Pray. This was just a donated game to Jin Air
TY just wasn't ready for the level of pressure according to Wolf.
Hmm why discuss this game? The game to discuss clearly was the Life game, that looked pretty much over (to me) when Life attacked but Maru held and pushed perfectly and did huge damage to give himself a lead. Should be talking about that imo xD
On June 30 2015 20:49 Scarecrow wrote: Flash held the cheese well enough and was one second of reaper micro away from winning. Why is he getting trashed like he could never beat maru?
Because Flash is the type of player who would mismicro his reaper
On June 30 2015 20:48 BlackCompany wrote: I think i know what the KT coaches thought before the game: "Hey look this Maru is kinda good. You know what we should do? WE PLAY ONLY MACRO GAMES AND SEND LOTS OF PROTOSS! HAH! HE WILL NEVER EXPECT THAT"
Only Zest played macro vs Maru... Stats and Life cheesed
By macro i meant anything that doesnt involve 1 base proxies or coinflips. Because what Life did was kind of not macro but then again it was 3 bases. Which is kind of good for Maru. Though Maru was fucking lucky that game
On June 30 2015 20:47 MarianoSC2 wrote: KT worst coaches confirmed...
Maru can be beaten in TvT only by super duper cheese build. TY actually could do it maybe. Flash? Never. Maru TvT is simply Godlike. He is a player of a completely different caliber
What choice did they have? Zest, Stats and Life are all down.
They should have sent TY in stead of Stats and Pray. This was just a donated game to Jin Air
TY just wasn't ready for the level of pressure according to Wolf.
On June 30 2015 20:47 OtherWorld wrote: Well, at least JAGW will beat SKT EZ
I don't know if anyone in the world can say he'll beat Classic easily now. And it's not like the rest of SKT lineup is too bad with soO, Dark, Dream, the mighty Zoun...
Haven't seen Innovation play for quite sometime (probably because I did not watch much sc2 lately) is he still the mayor of slumpcity?
I didn't mention him intentionally. He's still playing very bad.
On June 30 2015 20:47 OtherWorld wrote: Well, at least JAGW will beat SKT EZ
I don't know if anyone in the world can say he'll beat Classic easily now. And it's not like the rest of SKT lineup is too bad with soO, Dark, Dream, the mighty Zoun...
They'll open with Trap who'll beat Classic, and whatever Zerg they send after him. Then Dream will beat Trap, sOs will beat Dream, INnoVation will beat sOs and Maru will beat INnoVation.
On June 30 2015 20:49 Scarecrow wrote: Flash held the cheese well enough and was one second of reaper micro away from winning. Why is he getting trashed like he could never beat maru?
On June 30 2015 20:47 MarianoSC2 wrote: KT worst coaches confirmed...
Maru can be beaten in TvT only by super duper cheese build. TY actually could do it maybe. Flash? Never. Maru TvT is simply Godlike. He is a player of a completely different caliber
What choice did they have? Zest, Stats and Life are all down.
They should have sent TY in stead of Stats and Pray. This was just a donated game to Jin Air
TY just wasn't ready for the level of pressure according to Wolf.
you just can't rely on wolf
yeah its ridiculous, if you 2 rax someone in the final of proleague you are ready for that kind of pressure, easy as that
On June 30 2015 20:47 OtherWorld wrote: Well, at least JAGW will beat SKT EZ
I don't know if anyone in the world can say he'll beat Classic easily now. And it's not like the rest of SKT lineup is too bad with soO, Dark, Dream, the mighty Zoun...
They'll open with Trap who'll beat Classic, and whatever Zerg they send after him. Then Dream will beat Trap, sOs will beat Dream, INnoVation will beat sOs and Maru will beat INnoVation.
I don't believe in that scenario at all. I think SKT knows Classic is their best asset right now so they'll probably save him and open with soO or INnoVation.
On June 30 2015 20:47 OtherWorld wrote: Well, at least JAGW will beat SKT EZ
I don't know if anyone in the world can say he'll beat Classic easily now. And it's not like the rest of SKT lineup is too bad with soO, Dark, Dream, the mighty Zoun...
Haven't seen Innovation play for quite sometime (probably because I did not watch much sc2 lately) is he still the mayor of slumpcity?
I didn't mention him intentionally. He's still playing very bad.
Even though I'm sad Flash lost, I do think he was a better choice than TY. I love TY but it seems like his play in games where he doesn't have a build prepared specifically for his opponent/map is *usually* mediocre.
As for the general player order choices... probably not the best. Oh well. Good games and I had fun watching. Maru is a beast/congrats Jin Air.
On June 30 2015 20:47 OtherWorld wrote: Well, at least JAGW will beat SKT EZ
I don't know if anyone in the world can say he'll beat Classic easily now. And it's not like the rest of SKT lineup is too bad with soO, Dark, Dream, the mighty Zoun...
They'll open with Trap who'll beat Classic, and whatever Zerg they send after him. Then Dream will beat Trap, sOs will beat Dream, INnoVation will beat sOs and Maru will beat INnoVation.
I don't believe in that scenario at all. I think SKT knows Classic is their best asset right now so they'll probably save him and open with soO or INnoVation.
On June 30 2015 20:50 Pandemona wrote: Hmm why discuss this game? The game to discuss clearly was the Life game, that looked pretty much over (to me) when Life attacked but Maru held and pushed perfectly and did huge damage to give himself a lead. Should be talking about that imo xD
Because Flash looked lost. Dude got wrecked and it wasn't close.
On June 30 2015 20:50 Pandemona wrote: Hmm why discuss this game? The game to discuss clearly was the Life game, that looked pretty much over (to me) when Life attacked but Maru held and pushed perfectly and did huge damage to give himself a lead. Should be talking about that imo xD
On June 30 2015 20:50 Pandemona wrote: Hmm why discuss this game? The game to discuss clearly was the Life game, that looked pretty much over (to me) when Life attacked but Maru held and pushed perfectly and did huge damage to give himself a lead. Should be talking about that imo xD
Because Flash looked lost. Dude got wrecked and it wasn't close.
It actually was very close. Maru should get credit for pulling off that surround whilst microing his marauders enought to be a distraction but sure, let's just trash flash instead.
On June 30 2015 20:50 Pandemona wrote: Hmm why discuss this game? The game to discuss clearly was the Life game, that looked pretty much over (to me) when Life attacked but Maru held and pushed perfectly and did huge damage to give himself a lead. Should be talking about that imo xD
Because Flash looked lost. Dude got wrecked and it wasn't close.
And if he controls his reaper Maru dies and looked silly with his proxy.
On June 30 2015 20:53 Vasoline73 wrote: Even though I'm sad Flash lost, I do think he was a better choice than TY. I love TY but it seems like his play in games where he doesn't have a build prepared specifically for his opponent/map is *usually* mediocre.
As for the general player order choices... probably not the best. Oh well. Good games and I had fun watching. Maru is a beast/congrats Jin Air.
exactly he was a good choice just not as the final choice. Maru had too much momentum already. there would have been much less pressure on him and he would have been more confident if he was sent out first or second after Zest lost. but KT coaches strike again.
On June 30 2015 20:56 DarkLordOlli wrote: Here's the plan. I will switch to terran, learn how to headbash (can't be that hard), go to korea and snipe zest on ladder 24/7 for a few weeks.
Maybe you should begin with Stardust on NA/EU and then try Zest
On June 30 2015 20:56 DarkLordOlli wrote: Here's the plan. I will switch to terran, learn how to headbash (can't be that hard), go to korea and snipe zest on ladder 24/7 for a few weeks.
What do we bet that Zest, like all KT players, performs better on ladder and stomps you every time?
On June 30 2015 20:47 MarianoSC2 wrote: KT worst coaches confirmed...
Maru can be beaten in TvT only by super duper cheese build. TY actually could do it maybe. Flash? Never. Maru TvT is simply Godlike. He is a player of a completely different caliber
What choice did they have? Zest, Stats and Life are all down.
They should have sent TY in stead of Stats and Pray. This was just a donated game to Jin Air
TY just wasn't ready for the level of pressure according to Wolf.
you just can't rely on wolf
yeah its ridiculous, if you 2 rax someone in the final of proleague you are ready for that kind of pressure, easy as that
The lineup was fixed and he had time to prepare, very different situation. I agree with others that TY doesn't look that good when he is not given time to prepare.
On June 30 2015 20:56 DarkLordOlli wrote: Here's the plan. I will switch to terran, learn how to headbash (can't be that hard), go to korea and snipe zest on ladder 24/7 for a few weeks.
On June 30 2015 20:56 DarkLordOlli wrote: Here's the plan. I will switch to terran, learn how to headbash (can't be that hard), go to korea and snipe zest on ladder 24/7 for a few weeks.
Every time I mention that Flash's micro and/or multitask ability are nothing special I get bandwagoned but I think games like this really demonstrate that point. I was a Flash fan in BW and I'm a Flash fan now, but it wasn't because of his micro.
On June 30 2015 20:56 DarkLordOlli wrote: Here's the plan. I will switch to terran, learn how to headbash (can't be that hard), go to korea and snipe zest on ladder 24/7 for a few weeks.
You'll probably quit after being stuck in Masters or something and getting frustrated at the TvT mirror (or Protoss imba as usual) + Show Spoiler +
On June 30 2015 20:47 MarianoSC2 wrote: KT worst coaches confirmed...
Maru can be beaten in TvT only by super duper cheese build. TY actually could do it maybe. Flash? Never. Maru TvT is simply Godlike. He is a player of a completely different caliber
What choice did they have? Zest, Stats and Life are all down.
They should have sent TY in stead of Stats and Pray. This was just a donated game to Jin Air
TY just wasn't ready for the level of pressure according to Wolf.
you just can't rely on wolf
yeah its ridiculous, if you 2 rax someone in the final of proleague you are ready for that kind of pressure, easy as that
The lineup was fixed and he had time to prepare, very different situation. I agree with others that TY doesn't look that good when he is not given time to prepare.
Just have him prepare as a backup specifically against Maru. Every time. TY, Stats and Life have the best map records against Maru, one of them didn't get to play. Plus TY has winning records against Trap and Cure aswell and one of those probably would have been the 4th pick for Jin Air.
On June 30 2015 20:47 MarianoSC2 wrote: KT worst coaches confirmed...
Maru can be beaten in TvT only by super duper cheese build. TY actually could do it maybe. Flash? Never. Maru TvT is simply Godlike. He is a player of a completely different caliber
What choice did they have? Zest, Stats and Life are all down.
They should have sent TY in stead of Stats and Pray. This was just a donated game to Jin Air
TY just wasn't ready for the level of pressure according to Wolf.
you just can't rely on wolf
yeah its ridiculous, if you 2 rax someone in the final of proleague you are ready for that kind of pressure, easy as that
The lineup was fixed and he had time to prepare, very different situation. I agree with others that TY doesn't look that good when he is not given time to prepare.
Yeah but I mean when KT is facing Maru it's a matter of basic survival. Sending Zest first was a great call since he got 2 kills on the two best JAGW players behind Maru, then he lost to Maru as expected I guess, and when KT is in this situation it should be a "Kill Maru" mindset. Which means not sending out additional Protosses, who are just basic food for Maru, but playing on Maru's weakest MUs (relatively), TvT and TvZ. Basically it means sending, in order, TY/FlaSh/Life.
On June 30 2015 20:51 Makro wrote: so actually the closest game we had against maru was zest
ma boi
I see... gotta find comfort somewhere
On June 30 2015 20:48 DarkLordOlli wrote: I blame Life
Me too. I keep thinking vT is the reason KT got him and he's not performing
i blame KT coaches for horrible game planning and sucking the talent out of all our players.
yeah me too. I usually don't jump in the hate train that fast but this has been happening for a long time now. Even First and Super looked better than now and they're not playing PL.
Sorry HOT I like you, but you suck. Hoejja back pls or someone to save us
On June 30 2015 20:47 MarianoSC2 wrote: KT worst coaches confirmed...
Maru can be beaten in TvT only by super duper cheese build. TY actually could do it maybe. Flash? Never. Maru TvT is simply Godlike. He is a player of a completely different caliber
What choice did they have? Zest, Stats and Life are all down.
They should have sent TY in stead of Stats and Pray. This was just a donated game to Jin Air
TY just wasn't ready for the level of pressure according to Wolf.
you just can't rely on wolf
yeah its ridiculous, if you 2 rax someone in the final of proleague you are ready for that kind of pressure, easy as that
The lineup was fixed and he had time to prepare, very different situation. I agree with others that TY doesn't look that good when he is not given time to prepare.
Didn't he just qualify for something while beating pretty good players? I don't agree with this notion at all, he may be somewhat inconsistent, but if he is on form he plays extremely well (cause his micro and multitasking are ridiculous) Flash on the other hand is bad in both (if you compare it to actually good ones like Maru)
On June 30 2015 21:02 [PkF] Wire wrote: I saw Maru - Sora, Myungsik - Journey, Dear - soO... Where to find the rest of the upcomng S2SL matches ?
Maru always has lucky draws in these... but Dear vs soO :O
It will bring back great memories but neither Dear nor soO are the players they were when they met in the GSL finals. Arguably Dear has fallen far lower.
On June 30 2015 21:06 DarkLordOlli wrote: What I don't understand is why they don't have anyone ready with a snipe build for Maru. Everyone else is more than beatable in standard games for KT.
On June 30 2015 21:06 DarkLordOlli wrote: What I don't understand is why they don't have anyone ready with a snipe build for Maru. Everyone else is more than beatable in standard games for KT.
That splendid wall-in into proxy Stargate build on Vaani was probably the best thing they could come up with.
On June 30 2015 21:06 DarkLordOlli wrote: What I don't understand is why they don't have anyone ready with a snipe build for Maru. Everyone else is more than beatable in standard games for KT.
Because when you have a lineup consisting of Stats, Zest, Life, TY and Flash you stop thinking as a coach lol
On June 30 2015 21:06 DarkLordOlli wrote: What I don't understand is why they don't have anyone ready with a snipe build for Maru. Everyone else is more than beatable in standard games for KT.
That splendid wall-in into proxy Stargate build on Vaani was probably the best thing they could come up with.
Stats' original plan was proxy colossus with range but he abandoned it when he realised Maru eats colossi for breakfast.
In all seriousness, Life has been their attempt to snipe Maru twice, he lost both games (although Maru also was his sniper with the mech build on EL). Time for a non-Protoss backup. And TY excels at map-specific snipes.
On June 30 2015 21:06 DarkLordOlli wrote: What I don't understand is why they don't have anyone ready with a snipe build for Maru. Everyone else is more than beatable in standard games for KT.
That splendid wall-in into proxy Stargate build on Vaani was probably the best thing they could come up with.
while that could have worked given a few extra seconds I feel like Stats was the worst player to attempt that. Maru is always on guard against him for hidden nexi and proxy shenanigans after that PL loss last year.
On June 30 2015 21:06 DarkLordOlli wrote: What I don't understand is why they don't have anyone ready with a snipe build for Maru. Everyone else is more than beatable in standard games for KT.
Because when you have a lineup consisting of Stats, Zest, Life, TY and Flash you stop thinking as a coach lol
or maybe start overcoaching instead of butting out and letting your players do the job.
On June 30 2015 20:47 MarianoSC2 wrote: KT worst coaches confirmed...
Maru can be beaten in TvT only by super duper cheese build. TY actually could do it maybe. Flash? Never. Maru TvT is simply Godlike. He is a player of a completely different caliber
What choice did they have? Zest, Stats and Life are all down.
They should have sent TY in stead of Stats and Pray. This was just a donated game to Jin Air
TY just wasn't ready for the level of pressure according to Wolf.
you just can't rely on wolf
yeah its ridiculous, if you 2 rax someone in the final of proleague you are ready for that kind of pressure, easy as that
The lineup was fixed and he had time to prepare, very different situation. I agree with others that TY doesn't look that good when he is not given time to prepare.
Yeah but I mean when KT is facing Maru it's a matter of basic survival. Sending Zest first was a great call since he got 2 kills on the two best JAGW players behind Maru, then he lost to Maru as expected I guess, and when KT is in this situation it should be a "Kill Maru" mindset. Which means not sending out additional Protosses, who are just basic food for Maru, but playing on Maru's weakest MUs (relatively), TvT and TvZ. Basically it means sending, in order, TY/FlaSh/Life.
I agree with this 100%.
On June 30 2015 21:06 The_Red_Viper wrote: Didn't he just qualify for something while beating pretty good players? I don't agree with this notion at all, he may be somewhat inconsistent, but if he is on form he plays extremely well (cause his micro and multitasking are ridiculous) Flash on the other hand is bad in both (if you compare it to actually good ones like Maru)
Again qualifiers are a different situation than a playoff PL match.
What they should do imo is prepare TY to snipe Maru and play him asap, because it seems he can't handle the pressure of being the 4th man.
On June 30 2015 21:13 DarkLordOlli wrote: If KT just had a top level PvTer they'd be basically unstoppable.
Top level PvT is pretty hard though. Only Rain, PartinG, Classic and herO are there. Zest or Stats could get there but they gotta really push it in practice.
On June 30 2015 20:47 MarianoSC2 wrote: KT worst coaches confirmed...
Maru can be beaten in TvT only by super duper cheese build. TY actually could do it maybe. Flash? Never. Maru TvT is simply Godlike. He is a player of a completely different caliber
What choice did they have? Zest, Stats and Life are all down.
They should have sent TY in stead of Stats and Pray. This was just a donated game to Jin Air
TY just wasn't ready for the level of pressure according to Wolf.
you just can't rely on wolf
yeah its ridiculous, if you 2 rax someone in the final of proleague you are ready for that kind of pressure, easy as that
The lineup was fixed and he had time to prepare, very different situation. I agree with others that TY doesn't look that good when he is not given time to prepare.
Yeah but I mean when KT is facing Maru it's a matter of basic survival. Sending Zest first was a great call since he got 2 kills on the two best JAGW players behind Maru, then he lost to Maru as expected I guess, and when KT is in this situation it should be a "Kill Maru" mindset. Which means not sending out additional Protosses, who are just basic food for Maru, but playing on Maru's weakest MUs (relatively), TvT and TvZ. Basically it means sending, in order, TY/FlaSh/Life.
On June 30 2015 21:06 The_Red_Viper wrote: Didn't he just qualify for something while beating pretty good players? I don't agree with this notion at all, he may be somewhat inconsistent, but if he is on form he plays extremely well (cause his micro and multitasking are ridiculous) Flash on the other hand is bad in both (if you compare it to actually good ones like Maru)
Again qualifiers are a different situation than a playoff PL match.
What they should do imo is prepare TY to snipe Maru and play him asap, because it seems he can't handle the pressure of being the 4th man.
Well i don't believe this. I think they don't send TY as 4th player cause there still is Flash to send. You send Flash cause he is Flash, even though that means nothing in sc2 skillwise. I prefer my interpretation tbh, even though i agree with you guys that it would have been obviously even better to send TY right after Zest lost for example.
On June 30 2015 21:13 DarkLordOlli wrote: If KT just had a top level PvTer they'd be basically unstoppable.
Top level PvT is pretty hard though. Only Rain, PartinG, Classic and herO are there. Zest or Stats could get there but they gotta really push it in practice.
That's where the coaching shines.. I mean we've seen Myungsik on Sbenu putting a good fight against Maru (before throwing it all)... Zest and Stats should be able to do it too!
Anyways enough of playing the coaching KT game for today -.- We are still in somewhat good place for the final playoffs.
On June 30 2015 20:47 MarianoSC2 wrote: KT worst coaches confirmed...
Maru can be beaten in TvT only by super duper cheese build. TY actually could do it maybe. Flash? Never. Maru TvT is simply Godlike. He is a player of a completely different caliber
What choice did they have? Zest, Stats and Life are all down.
They should have sent TY in stead of Stats and Pray. This was just a donated game to Jin Air
TY just wasn't ready for the level of pressure according to Wolf.
you just can't rely on wolf
yeah its ridiculous, if you 2 rax someone in the final of proleague you are ready for that kind of pressure, easy as that
The lineup was fixed and he had time to prepare, very different situation. I agree with others that TY doesn't look that good when he is not given time to prepare.
Yeah but I mean when KT is facing Maru it's a matter of basic survival. Sending Zest first was a great call since he got 2 kills on the two best JAGW players behind Maru, then he lost to Maru as expected I guess, and when KT is in this situation it should be a "Kill Maru" mindset. Which means not sending out additional Protosses, who are just basic food for Maru, but playing on Maru's weakest MUs (relatively), TvT and TvZ. Basically it means sending, in order, TY/FlaSh/Life.
I agree with this 100%.
On June 30 2015 21:06 The_Red_Viper wrote: Didn't he just qualify for something while beating pretty good players? I don't agree with this notion at all, he may be somewhat inconsistent, but if he is on form he plays extremely well (cause his micro and multitasking are ridiculous) Flash on the other hand is bad in both (if you compare it to actually good ones like Maru)
Again qualifiers are a different situation than a playoff PL match.
What they should do imo is prepare TY to snipe Maru and play him asap, because it seems he can't handle the pressure of being the 4th man.
Well i don't believe this. I think they don't send TY as 4th player cause there still is Flash to send. You send Flash cause he is Flash, even though that means nothing in sc2 skillwise. I prefer my interpretation tbh, even though i agree with you guys that it would have been obviously even better to send TY right after Zest lost for example.
Well I don't think it's for marketing reasons either. Losing the match by playing the wrong players looks worse than benching Flash imo. And it's not like they're missing a handsome marketable player tho
On June 30 2015 21:13 DarkLordOlli wrote: If KT just had a top level PvTer they'd be basically unstoppable.
Top level PvT is pretty hard though. Only Rain, PartinG, Classic and herO are there. Zest or Stats could get there but they gotta really push it in practice.
That's where the coaching shines.. I mean we've seen Myungsik on Sbenu putting a good fight against Maru (before throwing it all)... Zest and Stats should be able to do it too!
Anyways enough of playing the coaching KT game for today -.- We are still in somewhat good place for the final playoffs.
Zest puts up decent fights and always ends up losing. He needs to be pushed over that edge so he can beat Maru every now and then (not always, always is absurd).
Our competition for the final playoffs is SBENU. We can thank Jin Air, SKT and CJ for dumping SBENU out of the top 4 at the last possible moment this round.
E: Maybe we should try getting First's PvT mojo back.
Let's see here, mirrors are always relatively more coinflippy by nature, so at least either Bogus or Dream should stop Maru - and that takes care of Jin Air's super ace.
As for the rest of the rosters, Classic/Dark/Dream/Bogus/Soo seems like a stronger lineup than Jin Air's sOs/Maru/Rogue/Cure/Trap, but either way this is going to be a close one.
i really wonder how much power coaches have over the builds players use. i feel like the best players in sc2 are able to come up with things on the spot rather than through preparation. it's obvious you can't tell Maru how to play or what build to use. same with pre-KT Life. just need to look at the success of partinG and Rain to see how coaching might be overrated. i can't help but think KT players are being overcoached instead of being given the freedom.
On June 30 2015 21:30 EngrishTeacher wrote: Let's see here, mirrors are always relatively more coinflippy by nature, so at least either Bogus or Dream should stop Maru - and that takes care of Jin Air's super ace.
As for the rest of the rosters, Classic/Dark/Dream/Bogus/Soo seems like a stronger lineup than Jin Air's sOs/Maru/Rogue/Cure/Trap, but either way this is going to be a close one.
Dream? Dream's TvT is... uh... pretty... not good. Dark is a much better choice to take out Maru.
On June 30 2015 21:30 EngrishTeacher wrote: Let's see here, mirrors are always relatively more coinflippy by nature, so at least either Bogus or Dream should stop Maru - and that takes care of Jin Air's super ace.
As for the rest of the rosters, Classic/Dark/Dream/Bogus/Soo seems like a stronger lineup than Jin Air's sOs/Maru/Rogue/Cure/Trap, but either way this is going to be a close one.
Dream? Dream's TvT is... uh... pretty... not good. Dark is a much better choice to take out Maru.
On June 30 2015 21:30 EngrishTeacher wrote: Let's see here, mirrors are always relatively more coinflippy by nature, so at least either Bogus or Dream should stop Maru - and that takes care of Jin Air's super ace.
As for the rest of the rosters, Classic/Dark/Dream/Bogus/Soo seems like a stronger lineup than Jin Air's sOs/Maru/Rogue/Cure/Trap, but either way this is going to be a close one.
Dream? Dream's TvT is... uh... pretty... not good. Dark is a much better choice to take out Maru.
On June 30 2015 21:31 DarkLordOlli wrote:
On June 30 2015 21:14 dazed25 wrote:
On June 30 2015 21:13 DarkLordOlli wrote: If KT just had a top level PvTer they'd be basically unstoppable.
just a vMaru'er tbh. Stats actually has (did?) reasonable PvT against anyone not named Dream or Maru.
To be fair, so does Zest
True. Zest has beaten most top Terrans this year, those 2 are pretty much exceptions (also TANGTANG and jjakji I guess).
Gotta get that First PvT mojo back on track though.
Dark soO and Classic are the best options to take out Maru. Although I do want to see Dream try to yolo drop Maru.
honestly i greatly favor SKT in the finals. I think KT had a better chance vs them.
Well, Jinair has trap to take out the sk zergs and the rest could be taken by sOs then.
On June 30 2015 21:30 EngrishTeacher wrote: Let's see here, mirrors are always relatively more coinflippy by nature, so at least either Bogus or Dream should stop Maru - and that takes care of Jin Air's super ace.
As for the rest of the rosters, Classic/Dark/Dream/Bogus/Soo seems like a stronger lineup than Jin Air's sOs/Maru/Rogue/Cure/Trap, but either way this is going to be a close one.
Dream? Dream's TvT is... uh... pretty... not good. Dark is a much better choice to take out Maru.
On June 30 2015 21:31 DarkLordOlli wrote:
On June 30 2015 21:14 dazed25 wrote:
On June 30 2015 21:13 DarkLordOlli wrote: If KT just had a top level PvTer they'd be basically unstoppable.
just a vMaru'er tbh. Stats actually has (did?) reasonable PvT against anyone not named Dream or Maru.
To be fair, so does Zest
True. Zest has beaten most top Terrans this year, those 2 are pretty much exceptions (also TANGTANG and jjakji I guess).
Gotta get that First PvT mojo back on track though.
Dark soO and Classic are the best options to take out Maru. Although I do want to see Dream try to yolo drop Maru.
honestly i greatly favor SKT in the finals. I think KT had a better chance vs them.
Well, Jinair has trap to take out the sk zergs and the rest could be taken by sOs then.
Dream rekts both of them so..... as soon as Jin Air sends on sOs or Trap, SKT should send out Dream, also, Classic can handle Trap and sOs too
On June 30 2015 21:30 EngrishTeacher wrote: Let's see here, mirrors are always relatively more coinflippy by nature, so at least either Bogus or Dream should stop Maru - and that takes care of Jin Air's super ace.
As for the rest of the rosters, Classic/Dark/Dream/Bogus/Soo seems like a stronger lineup than Jin Air's sOs/Maru/Rogue/Cure/Trap, but either way this is going to be a close one.
Dream? Dream's TvT is... uh... pretty... not good. Dark is a much better choice to take out Maru.
On June 30 2015 21:31 DarkLordOlli wrote:
On June 30 2015 21:14 dazed25 wrote:
On June 30 2015 21:13 DarkLordOlli wrote: If KT just had a top level PvTer they'd be basically unstoppable.
just a vMaru'er tbh. Stats actually has (did?) reasonable PvT against anyone not named Dream or Maru.
To be fair, so does Zest
True. Zest has beaten most top Terrans this year, those 2 are pretty much exceptions (also TANGTANG and jjakji I guess).
Gotta get that First PvT mojo back on track though.
Dark soO and Classic are the best options to take out Maru. Although I do want to see Dream try to yolo drop Maru.
honestly i greatly favor SKT in the finals. I think KT had a better chance vs them.
Well, Jinair has trap to take out the sk zergs and the rest could be taken by sOs then.
Dream rekts both of them so..... as soon as Jin Air sends on sOs or Trap, SKT should send out Dream, also, Classic can handle Trap and sOs too
sOs is a trickster. Even his last game against Dream was really close, and the one before that he won. Shouldn't underestimate the guy.
On June 30 2015 21:30 EngrishTeacher wrote: Let's see here, mirrors are always relatively more coinflippy by nature, so at least either Bogus or Dream should stop Maru - and that takes care of Jin Air's super ace.
As for the rest of the rosters, Classic/Dark/Dream/Bogus/Soo seems like a stronger lineup than Jin Air's sOs/Maru/Rogue/Cure/Trap, but either way this is going to be a close one.
Dream? Dream's TvT is... uh... pretty... not good. Dark is a much better choice to take out Maru.
On June 30 2015 21:31 DarkLordOlli wrote:
On June 30 2015 21:14 dazed25 wrote:
On June 30 2015 21:13 DarkLordOlli wrote: If KT just had a top level PvTer they'd be basically unstoppable.
just a vMaru'er tbh. Stats actually has (did?) reasonable PvT against anyone not named Dream or Maru.
To be fair, so does Zest
True. Zest has beaten most top Terrans this year, those 2 are pretty much exceptions (also TANGTANG and jjakji I guess).
Gotta get that First PvT mojo back on track though.
Dark soO and Classic are the best options to take out Maru. Although I do want to see Dream try to yolo drop Maru.
honestly i greatly favor SKT in the finals. I think KT had a better chance vs them.
Well, Jinair has trap to take out the sk zergs and the rest could be taken by sOs then.
Dream rekts both of them so..... as soon as Jin Air sends on sOs or Trap, SKT should send out Dream, also, Classic can handle Trap and sOs too
Pretty sure the other way around goes for maru and trap if you want to go that far. Why would you think Dream and Classic would handle Trap and sOs? I'm assuming when you said "can", you meant "can easily".
On June 30 2015 21:30 EngrishTeacher wrote: Let's see here, mirrors are always relatively more coinflippy by nature, so at least either Bogus or Dream should stop Maru - and that takes care of Jin Air's super ace.
As for the rest of the rosters, Classic/Dark/Dream/Bogus/Soo seems like a stronger lineup than Jin Air's sOs/Maru/Rogue/Cure/Trap, but either way this is going to be a close one.
Dream? Dream's TvT is... uh... pretty... not good. Dark is a much better choice to take out Maru.
On June 30 2015 21:31 DarkLordOlli wrote:
On June 30 2015 21:14 dazed25 wrote:
On June 30 2015 21:13 DarkLordOlli wrote: If KT just had a top level PvTer they'd be basically unstoppable.
just a vMaru'er tbh. Stats actually has (did?) reasonable PvT against anyone not named Dream or Maru.
To be fair, so does Zest
True. Zest has beaten most top Terrans this year, those 2 are pretty much exceptions (also TANGTANG and jjakji I guess).
Gotta get that First PvT mojo back on track though.
Dark soO and Classic are the best options to take out Maru. Although I do want to see Dream try to yolo drop Maru.
honestly i greatly favor SKT in the finals. I think KT had a better chance vs them.
Well, Jinair has trap to take out the sk zergs and the rest could be taken by sOs then.
Dream rekts both of them so..... as soon as Jin Air sends on sOs or Trap, SKT should send out Dream, also, Classic can handle Trap and sOs too
Pretty sure the other way around goes for maru and trap if you want to go that far. Why would you think Dream and Classic would handle Trap and sOs? I'm assuming when you said "can", you meant "can easily".
Dream hasn't lost to ANY Protoss lately except for Classic, and Classic is on his team, soooo.... He's ok for both Jin Air Toss's Dark and soO can beat both Cure AND Maru easily; Classic (maybe) and Dream can both beat Rogue; Classic beat Stats with exceptional pvp, so barring some weirdass shenanigans from sOs, he'll be ok. I think SKT has this in the bag, as long as they don't field INnoVation or even worse, Sorry.
Tell me, how is Jin air going to beat the lineup of: Dark, soO, Dream and Classic (Each one of the best in their race...), Maru and sOs won't save em'
On June 30 2015 21:30 EngrishTeacher wrote: Let's see here, mirrors are always relatively more coinflippy by nature, so at least either Bogus or Dream should stop Maru - and that takes care of Jin Air's super ace.
As for the rest of the rosters, Classic/Dark/Dream/Bogus/Soo seems like a stronger lineup than Jin Air's sOs/Maru/Rogue/Cure/Trap, but either way this is going to be a close one.
Dream? Dream's TvT is... uh... pretty... not good. Dark is a much better choice to take out Maru.
On June 30 2015 21:31 DarkLordOlli wrote:
On June 30 2015 21:14 dazed25 wrote:
On June 30 2015 21:13 DarkLordOlli wrote: If KT just had a top level PvTer they'd be basically unstoppable.
just a vMaru'er tbh. Stats actually has (did?) reasonable PvT against anyone not named Dream or Maru.
To be fair, so does Zest
True. Zest has beaten most top Terrans this year, those 2 are pretty much exceptions (also TANGTANG and jjakji I guess).
Gotta get that First PvT mojo back on track though.
Dark soO and Classic are the best options to take out Maru. Although I do want to see Dream try to yolo drop Maru.
honestly i greatly favor SKT in the finals. I think KT had a better chance vs them.
Well, Jinair has trap to take out the sk zergs and the rest could be taken by sOs then.
Dream rekts both of them so..... as soon as Jin Air sends on sOs or Trap, SKT should send out Dream, also, Classic can handle Trap and sOs too
Pretty sure the other way around goes for maru and trap if you want to go that far. Why would you think Dream and Classic would handle Trap and sOs? I'm assuming when you said "can", you meant "can easily".
Dream hasn't lost to ANY Protoss lately except for Classic, and Classic is on his team, soooo.... He's ok for both Jin Air Toss's Dark and soO can beat both Cure AND Maru easily; Classic (maybe) and Dream can both beat Rogue; Classic beat Stats with exceptional pvp, so barring some weirdass shenanigans from sOs, he'll be ok. I think SKT has this in the bag, as long as they don't field INnoVation or even worse, Sorry.
Tell me, how is Jin air going to beat the lineup of: Dark, soO, Dream and Classic (Each one of the best in their race...), Maru and sOs won't save em'
Rogue has beaten Dream plenty of times, so no to the assumption that Dream will definately win against Rogue. Dream HAS lost to protosses by hero, sOs and classic. He has won however, against hero and sOs, Zest and Stats. This means Dream is good PvTer but so is sOs and Trap. Easpecially when Dream is good against defensive protosses like Stats, Zest and hero (at the semi), which sOs and Trap aren't. Trap has won against both dark and soO. Trap seems to be dark's kryptonite btw. Check his winrate against him. Maru's PvZ is not great against SKT zergs but does not lose "easily." Classic's PvP is great but Trap and sOs' PvPs are also known to be good. Classic may be favored, but never easily.
On June 30 2015 21:30 EngrishTeacher wrote: Let's see here, mirrors are always relatively more coinflippy by nature, so at least either Bogus or Dream should stop Maru - and that takes care of Jin Air's super ace.
As for the rest of the rosters, Classic/Dark/Dream/Bogus/Soo seems like a stronger lineup than Jin Air's sOs/Maru/Rogue/Cure/Trap, but either way this is going to be a close one.
Dream? Dream's TvT is... uh... pretty... not good. Dark is a much better choice to take out Maru.
On June 30 2015 21:31 DarkLordOlli wrote:
On June 30 2015 21:14 dazed25 wrote:
On June 30 2015 21:13 DarkLordOlli wrote: If KT just had a top level PvTer they'd be basically unstoppable.
just a vMaru'er tbh. Stats actually has (did?) reasonable PvT against anyone not named Dream or Maru.
To be fair, so does Zest
True. Zest has beaten most top Terrans this year, those 2 are pretty much exceptions (also TANGTANG and jjakji I guess).
Gotta get that First PvT mojo back on track though.
Dark soO and Classic are the best options to take out Maru. Although I do want to see Dream try to yolo drop Maru.
honestly i greatly favor SKT in the finals. I think KT had a better chance vs them.
Well, Jinair has trap to take out the sk zergs and the rest could be taken by sOs then.
Dream rekts both of them so..... as soon as Jin Air sends on sOs or Trap, SKT should send out Dream, also, Classic can handle Trap and sOs too
Pretty sure the other way around goes for maru and trap if you want to go that far. Why would you think Dream and Classic would handle Trap and sOs? I'm assuming when you said "can", you meant "can easily".
Dream hasn't lost to ANY Protoss lately except for Classic, and Classic is on his team, soooo.... He's ok for both Jin Air Toss's Dark and soO can beat both Cure AND Maru easily; Classic (maybe) and Dream can both beat Rogue; Classic beat Stats with exceptional pvp, so barring some weirdass shenanigans from sOs, he'll be ok. I think SKT has this in the bag, as long as they don't field INnoVation or even worse, Sorry.
Tell me, how is Jin air going to beat the lineup of: Dark, soO, Dream and Classic (Each one of the best in their race...), Maru and sOs won't save em'
On June 30 2015 21:30 EngrishTeacher wrote: Let's see here, mirrors are always relatively more coinflippy by nature, so at least either Bogus or Dream should stop Maru - and that takes care of Jin Air's super ace.
As for the rest of the rosters, Classic/Dark/Dream/Bogus/Soo seems like a stronger lineup than Jin Air's sOs/Maru/Rogue/Cure/Trap, but either way this is going to be a close one.
Dream? Dream's TvT is... uh... pretty... not good. Dark is a much better choice to take out Maru.
On June 30 2015 21:31 DarkLordOlli wrote:
On June 30 2015 21:14 dazed25 wrote:
On June 30 2015 21:13 DarkLordOlli wrote: If KT just had a top level PvTer they'd be basically unstoppable.
just a vMaru'er tbh. Stats actually has (did?) reasonable PvT against anyone not named Dream or Maru.
To be fair, so does Zest
True. Zest has beaten most top Terrans this year, those 2 are pretty much exceptions (also TANGTANG and jjakji I guess).
Gotta get that First PvT mojo back on track though.
Dark soO and Classic are the best options to take out Maru. Although I do want to see Dream try to yolo drop Maru.
honestly i greatly favor SKT in the finals. I think KT had a better chance vs them.
Well, Jinair has trap to take out the sk zergs and the rest could be taken by sOs then.
Dream rekts both of them so..... as soon as Jin Air sends on sOs or Trap, SKT should send out Dream, also, Classic can handle Trap and sOs too
Pretty sure the other way around goes for maru and trap if you want to go that far. Why would you think Dream and Classic would handle Trap and sOs? I'm assuming when you said "can", you meant "can easily".
Dream hasn't lost to ANY Protoss lately except for Classic, and Classic is on his team, soooo.... He's ok for both Jin Air Toss's Dark and soO can beat both Cure AND Maru easily; Classic (maybe) and Dream can both beat Rogue; Classic beat Stats with exceptional pvp, so barring some weirdass shenanigans from sOs, he'll be ok. I think SKT has this in the bag, as long as they don't field INnoVation or even worse, Sorry.
Tell me, how is Jin air going to beat the lineup of: Dark, soO, Dream and Classic (Each one of the best in their race...), Maru and sOs won't save em'
Finally just watched the games. They were freaking hilarious actually. The level that Maru outplayed everybody except Zest was comedic. Each game was more ridiculous than the next in terms of straight up abuse. LOL.
It is crazy how well Maru reacts to certain situations. He does stuff literally nobody else is capable of doing or is even willing to try yet it works amazingly well for him.
On June 30 2015 23:06 Grizvok wrote: Finally just watched the games. They were freaking hilarious actually. The level that Maru outplayed everybody except Zest was comedic. Each game was more ridiculous than the next in terms of straight up abuse. LOL.
It is crazy how well Maru reacts to certain situations. He does stuff literally nobody else is capable of doing or is even willing to try yet it works amazingly well for him.
Maru played really well but his opponents played poorly or made really bad mistakes also. Life for example was really bad today.
On June 30 2015 21:30 EngrishTeacher wrote: Let's see here, mirrors are always relatively more coinflippy by nature, so at least either Bogus or Dream should stop Maru - and that takes care of Jin Air's super ace.
As for the rest of the rosters, Classic/Dark/Dream/Bogus/Soo seems like a stronger lineup than Jin Air's sOs/Maru/Rogue/Cure/Trap, but either way this is going to be a close one.
Dream? Dream's TvT is... uh... pretty... not good. Dark is a much better choice to take out Maru.
On June 30 2015 21:31 DarkLordOlli wrote:
On June 30 2015 21:14 dazed25 wrote:
On June 30 2015 21:13 DarkLordOlli wrote: If KT just had a top level PvTer they'd be basically unstoppable.
just a vMaru'er tbh. Stats actually has (did?) reasonable PvT against anyone not named Dream or Maru.
To be fair, so does Zest
True. Zest has beaten most top Terrans this year, those 2 are pretty much exceptions (also TANGTANG and jjakji I guess).
Gotta get that First PvT mojo back on track though.
Dark soO and Classic are the best options to take out Maru. Although I do want to see Dream try to yolo drop Maru.
honestly i greatly favor SKT in the finals. I think KT had a better chance vs them.
Well, Jinair has trap to take out the sk zergs and the rest could be taken by sOs then.
Dream rekts both of them so..... as soon as Jin Air sends on sOs or Trap, SKT should send out Dream, also, Classic can handle Trap and sOs too
Pretty sure the other way around goes for maru and trap if you want to go that far. Why would you think Dream and Classic would handle Trap and sOs? I'm assuming when you said "can", you meant "can easily".
Dream hasn't lost to ANY Protoss lately except for Classic, and Classic is on his team, soooo.... He's ok for both Jin Air Toss's Dark and soO can beat both Cure AND Maru easily; Classic (maybe) and Dream can both beat Rogue; Classic beat Stats with exceptional pvp, so barring some weirdass shenanigans from sOs, he'll be ok. I think SKT has this in the bag, as long as they don't field INnoVation or even worse, Sorry.
Tell me, how is Jin air going to beat the lineup of: Dark, soO, Dream and Classic (Each one of the best in their race...), Maru and sOs won't save em'
Rogue has beaten Dream plenty of times, so no to the assumption that Dream will definately win against Rogue. Dream HAS lost to protosses by hero, sOs and classic. He has won however, against hero and sOs, Zest and Stats. This means Dream is good PvTer but so is sOs and Trap. Easpecially when Dream is good against defensive protosses like Stats, Zest and hero (at the semi), which sOs and Trap aren't. Trap has won against both dark and soO. Trap seems to be dark's kryptonite btw. Check his winrate against him. Maru's PvZ is not great against SKT zergs but does not lose "easily." Classic's PvP is great but Trap and sOs' PvPs are also known to be good. Classic may be favored, but never easily.
Fair enough, BUT!!!!!! Dream lost to rogue when his TvZ wasn't that good, now it's godlike Dream lost to herO in GSL to hide builds/sniff herO out for SSL semi-finals, and he WON 4-0 Dream hasn't lost to any protoss since, other than Classic (not relevant), and he beat Trap handily in the IEM Shenzhen qualies... also???
Maru's PvZ?????
Maru lost 3-0 to Dark in KeSPa Cup. Even Taeja took a map off Dark, how was it NOT easy? for Dark at least..... for soO, I'm not sure but his recent form is promising
On June 30 2015 21:30 EngrishTeacher wrote: Let's see here, mirrors are always relatively more coinflippy by nature, so at least either Bogus or Dream should stop Maru - and that takes care of Jin Air's super ace.
As for the rest of the rosters, Classic/Dark/Dream/Bogus/Soo seems like a stronger lineup than Jin Air's sOs/Maru/Rogue/Cure/Trap, but either way this is going to be a close one.
Dream? Dream's TvT is... uh... pretty... not good. Dark is a much better choice to take out Maru.
On June 30 2015 21:31 DarkLordOlli wrote:
On June 30 2015 21:14 dazed25 wrote: [quote]
just a vMaru'er tbh. Stats actually has (did?) reasonable PvT against anyone not named Dream or Maru.
To be fair, so does Zest
True. Zest has beaten most top Terrans this year, those 2 are pretty much exceptions (also TANGTANG and jjakji I guess).
Gotta get that First PvT mojo back on track though.
Dark soO and Classic are the best options to take out Maru. Although I do want to see Dream try to yolo drop Maru.
honestly i greatly favor SKT in the finals. I think KT had a better chance vs them.
Well, Jinair has trap to take out the sk zergs and the rest could be taken by sOs then.
Dream rekts both of them so..... as soon as Jin Air sends on sOs or Trap, SKT should send out Dream, also, Classic can handle Trap and sOs too
Pretty sure the other way around goes for maru and trap if you want to go that far. Why would you think Dream and Classic would handle Trap and sOs? I'm assuming when you said "can", you meant "can easily".
Dream hasn't lost to ANY Protoss lately except for Classic, and Classic is on his team, soooo.... He's ok for both Jin Air Toss's Dark and soO can beat both Cure AND Maru easily; Classic (maybe) and Dream can both beat Rogue; Classic beat Stats with exceptional pvp, so barring some weirdass shenanigans from sOs, he'll be ok. I think SKT has this in the bag, as long as they don't field INnoVation or even worse, Sorry.
Tell me, how is Jin air going to beat the lineup of: Dark, soO, Dream and Classic (Each one of the best in their race...), Maru and sOs won't save em'
Rogue has beaten Dream plenty of times, so no to the assumption that Dream will definately win against Rogue. Dream HAS lost to protosses by hero, sOs and classic. He has won however, against hero and sOs, Zest and Stats. This means Dream is good PvTer but so is sOs and Trap. Easpecially when Dream is good against defensive protosses like Stats, Zest and hero (at the semi), which sOs and Trap aren't. Trap has won against both dark and soO. Trap seems to be dark's kryptonite btw. Check his winrate against him. Maru's PvZ is not great against SKT zergs but does not lose "easily." Classic's PvP is great but Trap and sOs' PvPs are also known to be good. Classic may be favored, but never easily.
Fair enough, BUT!!!!!! Dream lost to rogue when his PvZ wasn't that good, now it's godlike Dream lost to herO in GSL to hide builds/sniff herO out for SSL semi-finals, and he WON 4-0 Dream hasn't lost to any protoss since, other than Classic (not relevant), and he beat Trap handily in the IEM Shenzhen qualies... also???
On June 30 2015 21:30 EngrishTeacher wrote: Let's see here, mirrors are always relatively more coinflippy by nature, so at least either Bogus or Dream should stop Maru - and that takes care of Jin Air's super ace.
As for the rest of the rosters, Classic/Dark/Dream/Bogus/Soo seems like a stronger lineup than Jin Air's sOs/Maru/Rogue/Cure/Trap, but either way this is going to be a close one.
Dream? Dream's TvT is... uh... pretty... not good. Dark is a much better choice to take out Maru.
On June 30 2015 21:31 DarkLordOlli wrote: [quote]
To be fair, so does Zest
True. Zest has beaten most top Terrans this year, those 2 are pretty much exceptions (also TANGTANG and jjakji I guess).
Gotta get that First PvT mojo back on track though.
Dark soO and Classic are the best options to take out Maru. Although I do want to see Dream try to yolo drop Maru.
honestly i greatly favor SKT in the finals. I think KT had a better chance vs them.
Well, Jinair has trap to take out the sk zergs and the rest could be taken by sOs then.
Dream rekts both of them so..... as soon as Jin Air sends on sOs or Trap, SKT should send out Dream, also, Classic can handle Trap and sOs too
Pretty sure the other way around goes for maru and trap if you want to go that far. Why would you think Dream and Classic would handle Trap and sOs? I'm assuming when you said "can", you meant "can easily".
Dream hasn't lost to ANY Protoss lately except for Classic, and Classic is on his team, soooo.... He's ok for both Jin Air Toss's Dark and soO can beat both Cure AND Maru easily; Classic (maybe) and Dream can both beat Rogue; Classic beat Stats with exceptional pvp, so barring some weirdass shenanigans from sOs, he'll be ok. I think SKT has this in the bag, as long as they don't field INnoVation or even worse, Sorry.
Tell me, how is Jin air going to beat the lineup of: Dark, soO, Dream and Classic (Each one of the best in their race...), Maru and sOs won't save em'
Rogue has beaten Dream plenty of times, so no to the assumption that Dream will definately win against Rogue. Dream HAS lost to protosses by hero, sOs and classic. He has won however, against hero and sOs, Zest and Stats. This means Dream is good PvTer but so is sOs and Trap. Easpecially when Dream is good against defensive protosses like Stats, Zest and hero (at the semi), which sOs and Trap aren't. Trap has won against both dark and soO. Trap seems to be dark's kryptonite btw. Check his winrate against him. Maru's PvZ is not great against SKT zergs but does not lose "easily." Classic's PvP is great but Trap and sOs' PvPs are also known to be good. Classic may be favored, but never easily.
Fair enough, BUT!!!!!! Dream lost to rogue when his TvZ wasn't that good, now it's godlike Dream lost to herO in GSL to hide builds/sniff herO out for SSL semi-finals, and he WON 4-0 Dream hasn't lost to any protoss since, other than Classic (not relevant), and he beat Trap handily in the IEM Shenzhen qualies... also???
Maru's PvZ?????
helost 3-0 to Dark in KeSPa Cup even Taeja took a map off Dark, how was it NOT easy????
On June 30 2015 23:06 Grizvok wrote: Finally just watched the games. They were freaking hilarious actually. The level that Maru outplayed everybody except Zest was comedic. Each game was more ridiculous than the next in terms of straight up abuse. LOL.
It is crazy how well Maru reacts to certain situations. He does stuff literally nobody else is capable of doing or is even willing to try yet it works amazingly well for him.
Maru played really well but his opponents played poorly or made really bad mistakes also. Life for example was really bad today.
Both Maru and Life have this super-aggressive (aka head-banging) style which forces things on their opponent. Non-stop drops, ling run-bys, etc. The Protoss equivalents would be sOs and Parting. Their micro and execution is so good that their opponents crumble more often than not. But sometimes they fail, and they look silly (like how Life botched his semi all-in today). It's a high-risk / high-reward.
Most viewers are entertained by their style (as opposed to safe, defensive and solid styles like Rain).
When Maru wins, people mostly go nuts over his prowess. When Rain wins, people mostly go "meh, his opponent played bad". And the post-mortem discussions tend to flow from such sentiments. Just my humble observation.
(I don't think KT played super bad this round. Life and Stats tried to counter by taking on the aggression against Maru, who reacted just by the nick of time - the games dragged on, and that's why they 'looked' bad. Flash lost by the reaper mis-micro. Zest put up a great fight. Maru didn't dominate, KT didn't flop. The games were closer than the scores suggest.)
On June 30 2015 21:30 EngrishTeacher wrote: Let's see here, mirrors are always relatively more coinflippy by nature, so at least either Bogus or Dream should stop Maru - and that takes care of Jin Air's super ace.
As for the rest of the rosters, Classic/Dark/Dream/Bogus/Soo seems like a stronger lineup than Jin Air's sOs/Maru/Rogue/Cure/Trap, but either way this is going to be a close one.
Dream? Dream's TvT is... uh... pretty... not good. Dark is a much better choice to take out Maru.
On June 30 2015 21:31 DarkLordOlli wrote:
On June 30 2015 21:14 dazed25 wrote: [quote]
just a vMaru'er tbh. Stats actually has (did?) reasonable PvT against anyone not named Dream or Maru.
To be fair, so does Zest
True. Zest has beaten most top Terrans this year, those 2 are pretty much exceptions (also TANGTANG and jjakji I guess).
Gotta get that First PvT mojo back on track though.
Dark soO and Classic are the best options to take out Maru. Although I do want to see Dream try to yolo drop Maru.
honestly i greatly favor SKT in the finals. I think KT had a better chance vs them.
Well, Jinair has trap to take out the sk zergs and the rest could be taken by sOs then.
Dream rekts both of them so..... as soon as Jin Air sends on sOs or Trap, SKT should send out Dream, also, Classic can handle Trap and sOs too
Pretty sure the other way around goes for maru and trap if you want to go that far. Why would you think Dream and Classic would handle Trap and sOs? I'm assuming when you said "can", you meant "can easily".
Dream hasn't lost to ANY Protoss lately except for Classic, and Classic is on his team, soooo.... He's ok for both Jin Air Toss's Dark and soO can beat both Cure AND Maru easily; Classic (maybe) and Dream can both beat Rogue; Classic beat Stats with exceptional pvp, so barring some weirdass shenanigans from sOs, he'll be ok. I think SKT has this in the bag, as long as they don't field INnoVation or even worse, Sorry.
Tell me, how is Jin air going to beat the lineup of: Dark, soO, Dream and Classic (Each one of the best in their race...), Maru and sOs won't save em'
Rogue has beaten Dream plenty of times, so no to the assumption that Dream will definately win against Rogue. Dream HAS lost to protosses by hero, sOs and classic. He has won however, against hero and sOs, Zest and Stats. This means Dream is good PvTer but so is sOs and Trap. Easpecially when Dream is good against defensive protosses like Stats, Zest and hero (at the semi), which sOs and Trap aren't. Trap has won against both dark and soO. Trap seems to be dark's kryptonite btw. Check his winrate against him. Maru's PvZ is not great against SKT zergs but does not lose "easily." Classic's PvP is great but Trap and sOs' PvPs are also known to be good. Classic may be favored, but never easily.
Fair enough, BUT!!!!!! Dream lost to rogue when his TvZ wasn't that good, now it's godlike Dream lost to herO in GSL to hide builds/sniff herO out for SSL semi-finals, and he WON 4-0 Dream hasn't lost to any protoss since, other than Classic (not relevant), and he beat Trap handily in the IEM Shenzhen qualies... also???
Maru lost 3-0 to Dark in KeSPa Cup. Even Taeja took a map off Dark, how was it NOT easy? for Dark at least..... for soO, I'm not sure but his recent form is promising
So you're saying dream will win against hero again? I don't think dream will. It was hero's fault for underestimating dream that lead to 4-0. Also, maru lost against Dark in IEM katowice which was some time ago.
Also I just don't think there's "easy" among top players in sc2? Only the consistent results can allow you to be sure of the outcome (ie soulkey vs maru, zest vs maru). I remember 3 dark vs maru in which dark won twice. That's not enough. Otherwise, you should've been sure that sOs will win against Innovation easily every time since that match at Hot6ix cup because sOs won it in a convincing manner.
So Maru did an amazing job of performing multi-pronged attacks against protoss. This has been seen time and again as a method of immobilizing the protoss player and running them dry of workers, resources, and army. Why are protoss players unable to build a few defensive phoenix units?
On July 01 2015 01:19 BisuDagger wrote: So Maru did an amazing job of performing multi-pronged attacks against protoss. This has been seen time and again as a method of immobilizing the protoss player and running them dry of workers, resources, and army. Why are protoss players unable to build a few defensive phoenix units?
I mean Maru also shown how to dismantle Phoenix/Colo in the last months when he played against it. I think the real answer to Maru is : don't ever send Protosses against him, unless this Protoss is top3 PvT in the world.
You guys make it sound like its a simple thing to create a snipe strategy for a player whose TvP is such that no one else can emulate it in the entire world, whose TvZ is basically second best in the world and who has the highest TvT winrate in 2015.
KT just dont have any players that can reliably take out Maru. They'd need to hire Rain or herO or Classic to do that.
KT sent out the right players to try to take out Maru (and even had two snipe like builds come in from Life/Stats), but Maru isnt a one-dimensional player. At best its just a calculated gamble, at worst Maru just does another build from his wide arsenal of unique/stylistic builds.
You can scapegoat all you want, but KT players wer just a level below Maru and no amount of coaching will help that.
On July 01 2015 02:37 stuchiu wrote: KT sent out the right players to try to take out Maru (and even had two snipe like builds come in from Life/Stats), but Maru isnt a one-dimensional player. At best its just a calculated gamble, at worst Maru just does another build from his wide arsenal of unique/stylistic builds.
You can scapegoat all you want, but KT players wer just a level below Maru and no amount of coaching will help that.
yeah maybe we are spacegoating but goddammit how can it be possible to not take a fuckin single win against him? it's not like our players aren't skilled ffs!
On July 01 2015 02:37 stuchiu wrote: KT sent out the right players to try to take out Maru (and even had two snipe like builds come in from Life/Stats), but Maru isnt a one-dimensional player. At best its just a calculated gamble, at worst Maru just does another build from his wide arsenal of unique/stylistic builds.
You can scapegoat all you want, but KT players wer just a level below Maru and no amount of coaching will help that.
yeah maybe we are spacegoating but goddammit how can it be possible to not take a fuckin single win against him? it's not like our players aren't skilled ffs!
On July 01 2015 02:35 stuchiu wrote: You guys make it sound like its a simple thing to create a snipe strategy for a player whose TvP is such that no one else can emulate it in the entire world, whose TvZ is basically second best in the world and who has the highest TvT winrate in 2015.
KT just dont have any players that can reliably take out Maru. They'd need to hire Rain or herO or Classic to do that.
Life on form would do just fine.
Besides, our main annoyance is that they used Stats on Vaani against Maru, which is just asking to lose the map instead of fielding TY (who has pretty damn good TvT) on the good T map and saving Stats for Coda.
On July 01 2015 01:19 BisuDagger wrote: So Maru did an amazing job of performing multi-pronged attacks against protoss. This has been seen time and again as a method of immobilizing the protoss player and running them dry of workers, resources, and army. Why are protoss players unable to build a few defensive phoenix units?
The real question is why can't all Protoss players just become late 2013 Dear and beat Maru like he did
On July 01 2015 01:19 BisuDagger wrote: So Maru did an amazing job of performing multi-pronged attacks against protoss. This has been seen time and again as a method of immobilizing the protoss player and running them dry of workers, resources, and army. Why are protoss players unable to build a few defensive phoenix units?
The real question is why can't all Protoss players just become late 2013 Dear and beat Maru like he did
No the real question is why can't all Protoss players just be like PartinG and haunt Maru in his dreams?
On July 01 2015 01:19 BisuDagger wrote: So Maru did an amazing job of performing multi-pronged attacks against protoss. This has been seen time and again as a method of immobilizing the protoss player and running them dry of workers, resources, and army. Why are protoss players unable to build a few defensive phoenix units?
The real question is why can't all Protoss players just become late 2013 Dear and beat Maru like he did
No the real question is why can't all Protoss players just be like PartinG and haunt Maru in his dreams?
On July 01 2015 01:19 BisuDagger wrote: So Maru did an amazing job of performing multi-pronged attacks against protoss. This has been seen time and again as a method of immobilizing the protoss player and running them dry of workers, resources, and army. Why are protoss players unable to build a few defensive phoenix units?
The real question is why can't all Protoss players just become late 2013 Dear and beat Maru like he did
No the real question is why can't all Protoss players just be like PartinG and haunt Maru in his dreams?
On July 01 2015 01:19 BisuDagger wrote: So Maru did an amazing job of performing multi-pronged attacks against protoss. This has been seen time and again as a method of immobilizing the protoss player and running them dry of workers, resources, and army. Why are protoss players unable to build a few defensive phoenix units?
The real question is why can't all Protoss players just become late 2013 Dear and beat Maru like he did
No the real question is why can't all Protoss players just be like PartinG and haunt Maru in his dreams?
Oh, it's another day were Maru rekts KT and looks bored as hell. OK. And what the hell was Flash thinking? Whew I park my Reaper near the wall so that it can get surrounded easily and I'm off dealing with the stuff in my base?
On July 01 2015 06:19 plotspot wrote: Oh, it's another day were Maru rekts KT and looks bored as hell. OK. And what the hell was Flash thinking? Whew I park my Reaper near the wall so that it can get surrounded easily and I'm off dealing with the stuff in my base?
This is typical Flash in lots of official matches. Send a unit somewhere, not even with A-move, then focus on controlling something else and possibly lose the unit.
Yeah Maru might not do so well in regular league, but man just look at how hes playing. There is no one near his level... its just something else when he is in the zone... If there was a bonjwa award for somebody who dont win a shit ton of tournament, it would go to Maru.... no one can take him down in his prime.
EPT
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