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United States97276 Posts
I knew Hydra would pull through for me!!
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Poll: Morrow vs Hydra Game 2?★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (0) 0% ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (0) 0% ★★★ - Good game (3) 100% ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (0) 0% ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (0) 0% 3 total votes Your vote: Morrow vs Hydra Game 2? (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
(Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game
(Vote): ★★★ - Good game
(Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do
(Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what
Poll: Morrow vs Hydra Game 3?★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (2) 67% ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (0) 0% ★★★ - Good game (0) 0% ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (1) 33% ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (0) 0% 3 total votes Your vote: Morrow vs Hydra Game 3? (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
(Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game
(Vote): ★★★ - Good game
(Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do
(Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what
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2/2 bets. Feel sorry for Morrow Though, not breaking the curse
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so sad to see morrow revert to fail bio
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it was inevitable that morrow would lose the rematch
so silly
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Still impressed that Morrow managed to take the first match from Hydra.
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your Country52797 Posts
Woohoo 2/2. Sad for Morrow though.
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wow great answer Hydra lol
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LAWL
he practiced his English instead practicing SC2
what a boss
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On February 28 2015 12:45 Fanatic-Templar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2015 12:38 Nebuchad wrote:On February 28 2015 12:32 Larkin wrote:On February 28 2015 12:25 Fanatic-Templar wrote:On February 28 2015 12:22 Larkin wrote:On February 28 2015 12:19 Fanatic-Templar wrote:On February 28 2015 12:13 Larkin wrote:On February 28 2015 12:04 PinoKotsBeer wrote:
LOLOL Showtime: "tvp is hard because of the mines, you can lose a lot of probes in a second" Guess how terran feels vs toss... with orcale, storm, etc.
I stopped playing this game, i should stop watching it as well. but it's true though. all you have to do is plonk a mine down and unless there are obs everywhere you will lose probes, and they do so much damage they can kill 7-8 probes easy. and it's kinda hard to determine if/when they're coming since terran openings can look the same - you scout reactor factory and think mines, position to defend against drops, and then die to a hellbat push (for example). oracles require micro, especially if there's a turret. in fact pretty much every form of harass for every race requires effort and micro to execute. the widow mine is basically a swarm host with no range. and splash damage. and extra damage vs protoss. you just burrow and wait for the goodies - except in TvZ where they are used much more 'appropriately' as part of the army and tactically to zone out areas/create space etc. which I like. Well, honestly it's hard to complain about a unit doing too much damage to your worker line just because you have no detection when you're Protoss. I love to make people with no detection suffer, and it doesn't require a lot of skill  . 1 base widow mine can come out before obs if you open anything other than gate-robo it basically pigeonholes protoss into going straight for detection, either in the form of cannons or obs - the former takes minerals away from other uses, the latter takes gas and time that we would spend producing colossus. besides, as Protoss I complain about DTs all the time  True, and believe me, I hate Widow Mines when they're used against me (and also in how they're harmful to my preferred pro-Templar, anti-Colossus styles), but when I'm watching pro-games, they are quite entertaining. The disadvantage that Widow Mines have over Dark Templar is that you can see and try to stop them on the way in, even if you have no detection. 'Course, that's easier said than done with turbovacs . I don't think "good entertainment value" is justifiable as a reason for their unnecessary bonus vs Protoss. Which may be okay for a lot of high level players, but for lesser skilled ones it isn't. Lesser skilled protoss play against lesser skilled terrans who won't get as much out of their mine drops. It balances out. If it doesn't for you, then alter your build to counter mine drop play more than you're doing now. That's not really accurate. Some strategies are more rewarding to lower skill players. Both sides being of proportionately lower skill doesn't mean that the balance will be similar.
Yeah balances out wasn't the right way to say that, I agree. But you don't have to be as efficient at defense to counter the mines of Joe94. Honestly the reason I'm arguing against you is that I've been opening DTs with a fast forge the whole time in diamond and I never had much trouble with drop mines, and trust me it's not because of my amazing skills.
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Wonder how long they will wait to release the groups for Round of 16.... 
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On February 28 2015 12:52 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2015 12:45 Fanatic-Templar wrote:On February 28 2015 12:38 Nebuchad wrote:On February 28 2015 12:32 Larkin wrote:On February 28 2015 12:25 Fanatic-Templar wrote:On February 28 2015 12:22 Larkin wrote:On February 28 2015 12:19 Fanatic-Templar wrote:On February 28 2015 12:13 Larkin wrote:On February 28 2015 12:04 PinoKotsBeer wrote:
LOLOL Showtime: "tvp is hard because of the mines, you can lose a lot of probes in a second" Guess how terran feels vs toss... with orcale, storm, etc.
I stopped playing this game, i should stop watching it as well. but it's true though. all you have to do is plonk a mine down and unless there are obs everywhere you will lose probes, and they do so much damage they can kill 7-8 probes easy. and it's kinda hard to determine if/when they're coming since terran openings can look the same - you scout reactor factory and think mines, position to defend against drops, and then die to a hellbat push (for example). oracles require micro, especially if there's a turret. in fact pretty much every form of harass for every race requires effort and micro to execute. the widow mine is basically a swarm host with no range. and splash damage. and extra damage vs protoss. you just burrow and wait for the goodies - except in TvZ where they are used much more 'appropriately' as part of the army and tactically to zone out areas/create space etc. which I like. Well, honestly it's hard to complain about a unit doing too much damage to your worker line just because you have no detection when you're Protoss. I love to make people with no detection suffer, and it doesn't require a lot of skill . 1 base widow mine can come out before obs if you open anything other than gate-robo it basically pigeonholes protoss into going straight for detection, either in the form of cannons or obs - the former takes minerals away from other uses, the latter takes gas and time that we would spend producing colossus. besides, as Protoss I complain about DTs all the time True, and believe me, I hate Widow Mines when they're used against me (and also in how they're harmful to my preferred pro-Templar, anti-Colossus styles), but when I'm watching pro-games, they are quite entertaining. The disadvantage that Widow Mines have over Dark Templar is that you can see and try to stop them on the way in, even if you have no detection. 'Course, that's easier said than done with turbovacs . I don't think "good entertainment value" is justifiable as a reason for their unnecessary bonus vs Protoss. Which may be okay for a lot of high level players, but for lesser skilled ones it isn't. Lesser skilled protoss play against lesser skilled terrans who won't get as much out of their mine drops. It balances out. If it doesn't for you, then alter your build to counter mine drop play more than you're doing now. That's not really accurate. Some strategies are more rewarding to lower skill players. Both sides being of proportionately lower skill doesn't mean that the balance will be similar. Yeah balances out wasn't the right way to say that, I agree. But you don't have to be as efficient at defense to counter the mines of Joe94. Honestly the reason I'm arguing against you is that I've been opening DTs with a fast forge the whole time in diamond and I never had much trouble with drop mines, and trust me it's not because of my amazing skills.
I don't think you've been arguing with me, I've got very little relevant stuff to say about balance, given that I regularly Korean 4 Warpgate All-in players in Platinum. That build isn't supposed to have been viable since WoL beta. Some strategies just happen to work better at lower leagues. Back when I was getting friends interested in SC2 (This was back in WoL, before the Mothership Core) I'd always recommend they play Terran, because stim a-moving Marines is easier than learning to Forcefield yourself alive or knowing when to Drone and when to make combat units. Yet Masters level players here kept insisting that Terran was the hardest race to play.
Balance just isn't universal, I don't think.
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So Morrow didn't make it? That makes me a sad panda D;
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On February 28 2015 12:52 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2015 12:45 Fanatic-Templar wrote:On February 28 2015 12:38 Nebuchad wrote:On February 28 2015 12:32 Larkin wrote:On February 28 2015 12:25 Fanatic-Templar wrote:On February 28 2015 12:22 Larkin wrote:On February 28 2015 12:19 Fanatic-Templar wrote:On February 28 2015 12:13 Larkin wrote:On February 28 2015 12:04 PinoKotsBeer wrote:
LOLOL Showtime: "tvp is hard because of the mines, you can lose a lot of probes in a second" Guess how terran feels vs toss... with orcale, storm, etc.
I stopped playing this game, i should stop watching it as well. but it's true though. all you have to do is plonk a mine down and unless there are obs everywhere you will lose probes, and they do so much damage they can kill 7-8 probes easy. and it's kinda hard to determine if/when they're coming since terran openings can look the same - you scout reactor factory and think mines, position to defend against drops, and then die to a hellbat push (for example). oracles require micro, especially if there's a turret. in fact pretty much every form of harass for every race requires effort and micro to execute. the widow mine is basically a swarm host with no range. and splash damage. and extra damage vs protoss. you just burrow and wait for the goodies - except in TvZ where they are used much more 'appropriately' as part of the army and tactically to zone out areas/create space etc. which I like. Well, honestly it's hard to complain about a unit doing too much damage to your worker line just because you have no detection when you're Protoss. I love to make people with no detection suffer, and it doesn't require a lot of skill . 1 base widow mine can come out before obs if you open anything other than gate-robo it basically pigeonholes protoss into going straight for detection, either in the form of cannons or obs - the former takes minerals away from other uses, the latter takes gas and time that we would spend producing colossus. besides, as Protoss I complain about DTs all the time True, and believe me, I hate Widow Mines when they're used against me (and also in how they're harmful to my preferred pro-Templar, anti-Colossus styles), but when I'm watching pro-games, they are quite entertaining. The disadvantage that Widow Mines have over Dark Templar is that you can see and try to stop them on the way in, even if you have no detection. 'Course, that's easier said than done with turbovacs . I don't think "good entertainment value" is justifiable as a reason for their unnecessary bonus vs Protoss. Which may be okay for a lot of high level players, but for lesser skilled ones it isn't. Lesser skilled protoss play against lesser skilled terrans who won't get as much out of their mine drops. It balances out. If it doesn't for you, then alter your build to counter mine drop play more than you're doing now. That's not really accurate. Some strategies are more rewarding to lower skill players. Both sides being of proportionately lower skill doesn't mean that the balance will be similar. Yeah balances out wasn't the right way to say that, I agree. But you don't have to be as efficient at defense to counter the mines of Joe94. Honestly the reason I'm arguing against you is that I've been opening DTs with a fast forge the whole time in diamond and I never had much trouble with drop mines, and trust me it's not because of my amazing skills.
again, I think you are wrong. you have to be next to flawless to defend the various widow mine timings, or you have to build a bunch of cannons early on which makes you vulnerable to a standard bio timing, or make a load of obs which slows down colossus - and either way you're forfeiting any ability to harass the terran.
it's the kind of strategy, like a DT rush or cloaked banshee rush or speedling all in that makes newer/lesser skilled players stop wanting to play the game. but it's not a one off cheese that happens 1 game out of 100, it happens almost every single TvP because of how effective it is and how lower league players will straight up die to it.
but ofc Blizz do not care about anything below masters 1v1 - they pay no attention to lower leagues or team games or anything. which is why less and less people are playing or caring about sc2. but whatever.
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On February 28 2015 13:01 Fanatic-Templar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2015 12:52 Nebuchad wrote:On February 28 2015 12:45 Fanatic-Templar wrote:On February 28 2015 12:38 Nebuchad wrote:On February 28 2015 12:32 Larkin wrote:On February 28 2015 12:25 Fanatic-Templar wrote:On February 28 2015 12:22 Larkin wrote:On February 28 2015 12:19 Fanatic-Templar wrote:On February 28 2015 12:13 Larkin wrote:On February 28 2015 12:04 PinoKotsBeer wrote:
LOLOL Showtime: "tvp is hard because of the mines, you can lose a lot of probes in a second" Guess how terran feels vs toss... with orcale, storm, etc.
I stopped playing this game, i should stop watching it as well. but it's true though. all you have to do is plonk a mine down and unless there are obs everywhere you will lose probes, and they do so much damage they can kill 7-8 probes easy. and it's kinda hard to determine if/when they're coming since terran openings can look the same - you scout reactor factory and think mines, position to defend against drops, and then die to a hellbat push (for example). oracles require micro, especially if there's a turret. in fact pretty much every form of harass for every race requires effort and micro to execute. the widow mine is basically a swarm host with no range. and splash damage. and extra damage vs protoss. you just burrow and wait for the goodies - except in TvZ where they are used much more 'appropriately' as part of the army and tactically to zone out areas/create space etc. which I like. Well, honestly it's hard to complain about a unit doing too much damage to your worker line just because you have no detection when you're Protoss. I love to make people with no detection suffer, and it doesn't require a lot of skill . 1 base widow mine can come out before obs if you open anything other than gate-robo it basically pigeonholes protoss into going straight for detection, either in the form of cannons or obs - the former takes minerals away from other uses, the latter takes gas and time that we would spend producing colossus. besides, as Protoss I complain about DTs all the time True, and believe me, I hate Widow Mines when they're used against me (and also in how they're harmful to my preferred pro-Templar, anti-Colossus styles), but when I'm watching pro-games, they are quite entertaining. The disadvantage that Widow Mines have over Dark Templar is that you can see and try to stop them on the way in, even if you have no detection. 'Course, that's easier said than done with turbovacs . I don't think "good entertainment value" is justifiable as a reason for their unnecessary bonus vs Protoss. Which may be okay for a lot of high level players, but for lesser skilled ones it isn't. Lesser skilled protoss play against lesser skilled terrans who won't get as much out of their mine drops. It balances out. If it doesn't for you, then alter your build to counter mine drop play more than you're doing now. That's not really accurate. Some strategies are more rewarding to lower skill players. Both sides being of proportionately lower skill doesn't mean that the balance will be similar. Yeah balances out wasn't the right way to say that, I agree. But you don't have to be as efficient at defense to counter the mines of Joe94. Honestly the reason I'm arguing against you is that I've been opening DTs with a fast forge the whole time in diamond and I never had much trouble with drop mines, and trust me it's not because of my amazing skills. Balance just isn't universal, I don't think.
Mostly because it has different definitions depending on who you're talking to
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I wished hydra would have lost so I can say EU > IEM
but oh well. wp hydra as expected
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come on morrow -_-
really didn't care about this group but congrats showtime.
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Wait, how did hydra not advance first?
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EPT
