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Surprising? This is what Hydra does
he believes in a thing called roach
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Poll: Morrow vs Hydra Game 1?★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (0) 0% ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (0) 0% ★★★ - Good game (0) 0% ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (3) 60% ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (2) 40% 5 total votes Your vote: Morrow vs Hydra Game 1? (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
(Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game
(Vote): ★★★ - Good game
(Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do
(Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what
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Hydra not messing around this time
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Lets hope for a better second game.
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On February 28 2015 12:25 Fanatic-Templar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2015 12:22 Larkin wrote:On February 28 2015 12:19 Fanatic-Templar wrote:On February 28 2015 12:13 Larkin wrote:On February 28 2015 12:04 PinoKotsBeer wrote:
LOLOL Showtime: "tvp is hard because of the mines, you can lose a lot of probes in a second" Guess how terran feels vs toss... with orcale, storm, etc.
I stopped playing this game, i should stop watching it as well. but it's true though. all you have to do is plonk a mine down and unless there are obs everywhere you will lose probes, and they do so much damage they can kill 7-8 probes easy. and it's kinda hard to determine if/when they're coming since terran openings can look the same - you scout reactor factory and think mines, position to defend against drops, and then die to a hellbat push (for example). oracles require micro, especially if there's a turret. in fact pretty much every form of harass for every race requires effort and micro to execute. the widow mine is basically a swarm host with no range. and splash damage. and extra damage vs protoss. you just burrow and wait for the goodies - except in TvZ where they are used much more 'appropriately' as part of the army and tactically to zone out areas/create space etc. which I like. Well, honestly it's hard to complain about a unit doing too much damage to your worker line just because you have no detection when you're Protoss. I love to make people with no detection suffer, and it doesn't require a lot of skill  . 1 base widow mine can come out before obs if you open anything other than gate-robo it basically pigeonholes protoss into going straight for detection, either in the form of cannons or obs - the former takes minerals away from other uses, the latter takes gas and time that we would spend producing colossus. besides, as Protoss I complain about DTs all the time  True, and believe me, I hate Widow Mines when they're used against me (and also in how they're harmful to my preferred pro-Templar, anti-Colossus styles), but when I'm watching pro-games, they are quite entertaining. The disadvantage that Widow Mines have over Dark Templar is that you can see and try to stop them on the way in, even if you have no detection. 'Course, that's easier said than done with turbovacs .
I don't think "good entertainment value" is justifiable as a reason for their unnecessary bonus vs Protoss.
It's especially hard when you have only a couple of stalkers in the early game and they just can't kill things fast enough. You literally have to be on point with your units and MSC or you will lose so much. Which may be okay for a lot of high level players, but for lesser skilled ones it isn't. To the point that practically every Terran I've played against from silver to diamond league goes for mine drops.
Apart from that one guy who did a 1 base thor rush with all SCVs pulled.
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On February 28 2015 12:32 Larkin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2015 12:25 Fanatic-Templar wrote:On February 28 2015 12:22 Larkin wrote:On February 28 2015 12:19 Fanatic-Templar wrote:On February 28 2015 12:13 Larkin wrote:On February 28 2015 12:04 PinoKotsBeer wrote:
LOLOL Showtime: "tvp is hard because of the mines, you can lose a lot of probes in a second" Guess how terran feels vs toss... with orcale, storm, etc.
I stopped playing this game, i should stop watching it as well. but it's true though. all you have to do is plonk a mine down and unless there are obs everywhere you will lose probes, and they do so much damage they can kill 7-8 probes easy. and it's kinda hard to determine if/when they're coming since terran openings can look the same - you scout reactor factory and think mines, position to defend against drops, and then die to a hellbat push (for example). oracles require micro, especially if there's a turret. in fact pretty much every form of harass for every race requires effort and micro to execute. the widow mine is basically a swarm host with no range. and splash damage. and extra damage vs protoss. you just burrow and wait for the goodies - except in TvZ where they are used much more 'appropriately' as part of the army and tactically to zone out areas/create space etc. which I like. Well, honestly it's hard to complain about a unit doing too much damage to your worker line just because you have no detection when you're Protoss. I love to make people with no detection suffer, and it doesn't require a lot of skill . 1 base widow mine can come out before obs if you open anything other than gate-robo it basically pigeonholes protoss into going straight for detection, either in the form of cannons or obs - the former takes minerals away from other uses, the latter takes gas and time that we would spend producing colossus. besides, as Protoss I complain about DTs all the time True, and believe me, I hate Widow Mines when they're used against me (and also in how they're harmful to my preferred pro-Templar, anti-Colossus styles), but when I'm watching pro-games, they are quite entertaining. The disadvantage that Widow Mines have over Dark Templar is that you can see and try to stop them on the way in, even if you have no detection. 'Course, that's easier said than done with turbovacs . I don't think "good entertainment value" is justifiable as a reason for their unnecessary bonus vs Protoss. It's especially hard when you have only a couple of stalkers in the early game and they just can't kill things fast enough. You literally have to be on point with your units and MSC or you will lose so much. Which may be okay for a lot of high level players, but for lesser skilled ones it isn't. To the point that practically every Terran I've played against from silver to diamond league goes for mine drops. Apart from that one guy who did a 1 base thor rush with all SCVs pulled.
I didnt know Lucifron still plays sc2
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On February 28 2015 12:32 Larkin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2015 12:25 Fanatic-Templar wrote:On February 28 2015 12:22 Larkin wrote:On February 28 2015 12:19 Fanatic-Templar wrote:On February 28 2015 12:13 Larkin wrote:On February 28 2015 12:04 PinoKotsBeer wrote:
LOLOL Showtime: "tvp is hard because of the mines, you can lose a lot of probes in a second" Guess how terran feels vs toss... with orcale, storm, etc.
I stopped playing this game, i should stop watching it as well. but it's true though. all you have to do is plonk a mine down and unless there are obs everywhere you will lose probes, and they do so much damage they can kill 7-8 probes easy. and it's kinda hard to determine if/when they're coming since terran openings can look the same - you scout reactor factory and think mines, position to defend against drops, and then die to a hellbat push (for example). oracles require micro, especially if there's a turret. in fact pretty much every form of harass for every race requires effort and micro to execute. the widow mine is basically a swarm host with no range. and splash damage. and extra damage vs protoss. you just burrow and wait for the goodies - except in TvZ where they are used much more 'appropriately' as part of the army and tactically to zone out areas/create space etc. which I like. Well, honestly it's hard to complain about a unit doing too much damage to your worker line just because you have no detection when you're Protoss. I love to make people with no detection suffer, and it doesn't require a lot of skill . 1 base widow mine can come out before obs if you open anything other than gate-robo it basically pigeonholes protoss into going straight for detection, either in the form of cannons or obs - the former takes minerals away from other uses, the latter takes gas and time that we would spend producing colossus. besides, as Protoss I complain about DTs all the time True, and believe me, I hate Widow Mines when they're used against me (and also in how they're harmful to my preferred pro-Templar, anti-Colossus styles), but when I'm watching pro-games, they are quite entertaining. The disadvantage that Widow Mines have over Dark Templar is that you can see and try to stop them on the way in, even if you have no detection. 'Course, that's easier said than done with turbovacs . I don't think "good entertainment value" is justifiable as a reason for their unnecessary bonus vs Protoss. It's especially hard when you have only a couple of stalkers in the early game and they just can't kill things fast enough. You literally have to be on point with your units and MSC or you will lose so much. Which may be okay for a lot of high level players, but for lesser skilled ones it isn't. To the point that practically every Terran I've played against from silver to diamond league goes for mine drops. Apart from that one guy who did a 1 base thor rush with all SCVs pulled.
Blizzard said they thought they buffed it too much didn't they? That was quite a while ago, strange they didn't actually change it
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On February 28 2015 12:36 Penev wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2015 12:32 Larkin wrote:On February 28 2015 12:25 Fanatic-Templar wrote:On February 28 2015 12:22 Larkin wrote:On February 28 2015 12:19 Fanatic-Templar wrote:On February 28 2015 12:13 Larkin wrote:On February 28 2015 12:04 PinoKotsBeer wrote:
LOLOL Showtime: "tvp is hard because of the mines, you can lose a lot of probes in a second" Guess how terran feels vs toss... with orcale, storm, etc.
I stopped playing this game, i should stop watching it as well. but it's true though. all you have to do is plonk a mine down and unless there are obs everywhere you will lose probes, and they do so much damage they can kill 7-8 probes easy. and it's kinda hard to determine if/when they're coming since terran openings can look the same - you scout reactor factory and think mines, position to defend against drops, and then die to a hellbat push (for example). oracles require micro, especially if there's a turret. in fact pretty much every form of harass for every race requires effort and micro to execute. the widow mine is basically a swarm host with no range. and splash damage. and extra damage vs protoss. you just burrow and wait for the goodies - except in TvZ where they are used much more 'appropriately' as part of the army and tactically to zone out areas/create space etc. which I like. Well, honestly it's hard to complain about a unit doing too much damage to your worker line just because you have no detection when you're Protoss. I love to make people with no detection suffer, and it doesn't require a lot of skill . 1 base widow mine can come out before obs if you open anything other than gate-robo it basically pigeonholes protoss into going straight for detection, either in the form of cannons or obs - the former takes minerals away from other uses, the latter takes gas and time that we would spend producing colossus. besides, as Protoss I complain about DTs all the time True, and believe me, I hate Widow Mines when they're used against me (and also in how they're harmful to my preferred pro-Templar, anti-Colossus styles), but when I'm watching pro-games, they are quite entertaining. The disadvantage that Widow Mines have over Dark Templar is that you can see and try to stop them on the way in, even if you have no detection. 'Course, that's easier said than done with turbovacs . I don't think "good entertainment value" is justifiable as a reason for their unnecessary bonus vs Protoss. It's especially hard when you have only a couple of stalkers in the early game and they just can't kill things fast enough. You literally have to be on point with your units and MSC or you will lose so much. Which may be okay for a lot of high level players, but for lesser skilled ones it isn't. To the point that practically every Terran I've played against from silver to diamond league goes for mine drops. Apart from that one guy who did a 1 base thor rush with all SCVs pulled. Blizzard said they thought they buffed it too much didn't they? That was quite a while ago, strange they didn't actually change it
There was a PvP finals at an IEM about a week after they proposed the change, so it got instantly scrapped.
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On February 28 2015 12:32 Larkin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2015 12:25 Fanatic-Templar wrote:On February 28 2015 12:22 Larkin wrote:On February 28 2015 12:19 Fanatic-Templar wrote:On February 28 2015 12:13 Larkin wrote:On February 28 2015 12:04 PinoKotsBeer wrote:
LOLOL Showtime: "tvp is hard because of the mines, you can lose a lot of probes in a second" Guess how terran feels vs toss... with orcale, storm, etc.
I stopped playing this game, i should stop watching it as well. but it's true though. all you have to do is plonk a mine down and unless there are obs everywhere you will lose probes, and they do so much damage they can kill 7-8 probes easy. and it's kinda hard to determine if/when they're coming since terran openings can look the same - you scout reactor factory and think mines, position to defend against drops, and then die to a hellbat push (for example). oracles require micro, especially if there's a turret. in fact pretty much every form of harass for every race requires effort and micro to execute. the widow mine is basically a swarm host with no range. and splash damage. and extra damage vs protoss. you just burrow and wait for the goodies - except in TvZ where they are used much more 'appropriately' as part of the army and tactically to zone out areas/create space etc. which I like. Well, honestly it's hard to complain about a unit doing too much damage to your worker line just because you have no detection when you're Protoss. I love to make people with no detection suffer, and it doesn't require a lot of skill . 1 base widow mine can come out before obs if you open anything other than gate-robo it basically pigeonholes protoss into going straight for detection, either in the form of cannons or obs - the former takes minerals away from other uses, the latter takes gas and time that we would spend producing colossus. besides, as Protoss I complain about DTs all the time True, and believe me, I hate Widow Mines when they're used against me (and also in how they're harmful to my preferred pro-Templar, anti-Colossus styles), but when I'm watching pro-games, they are quite entertaining. The disadvantage that Widow Mines have over Dark Templar is that you can see and try to stop them on the way in, even if you have no detection. 'Course, that's easier said than done with turbovacs . I don't think "good entertainment value" is justifiable as a reason for their unnecessary bonus vs Protoss. Which may be okay for a lot of high level players, but for lesser skilled ones it isn't.
Lesser skilled protoss play against lesser skilled terrans who won't get as much out of their mine drops. It balances out. If it doesn't for you, then alter your build to counter mine drop play more than you're doing now.
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That was some great medivac micro from Morrow.
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oh my god that was a superb hold by Hydra
edit--
but more hellbats happened
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Neat micro from MorroW. Not terribly convinced by that build though; hydra batted it aside fairly easily. I guess its not all bad since he got the third.
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On February 28 2015 12:38 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2015 12:32 Larkin wrote:On February 28 2015 12:25 Fanatic-Templar wrote:On February 28 2015 12:22 Larkin wrote:On February 28 2015 12:19 Fanatic-Templar wrote:On February 28 2015 12:13 Larkin wrote:On February 28 2015 12:04 PinoKotsBeer wrote:
LOLOL Showtime: "tvp is hard because of the mines, you can lose a lot of probes in a second" Guess how terran feels vs toss... with orcale, storm, etc.
I stopped playing this game, i should stop watching it as well. but it's true though. all you have to do is plonk a mine down and unless there are obs everywhere you will lose probes, and they do so much damage they can kill 7-8 probes easy. and it's kinda hard to determine if/when they're coming since terran openings can look the same - you scout reactor factory and think mines, position to defend against drops, and then die to a hellbat push (for example). oracles require micro, especially if there's a turret. in fact pretty much every form of harass for every race requires effort and micro to execute. the widow mine is basically a swarm host with no range. and splash damage. and extra damage vs protoss. you just burrow and wait for the goodies - except in TvZ where they are used much more 'appropriately' as part of the army and tactically to zone out areas/create space etc. which I like. Well, honestly it's hard to complain about a unit doing too much damage to your worker line just because you have no detection when you're Protoss. I love to make people with no detection suffer, and it doesn't require a lot of skill . 1 base widow mine can come out before obs if you open anything other than gate-robo it basically pigeonholes protoss into going straight for detection, either in the form of cannons or obs - the former takes minerals away from other uses, the latter takes gas and time that we would spend producing colossus. besides, as Protoss I complain about DTs all the time True, and believe me, I hate Widow Mines when they're used against me (and also in how they're harmful to my preferred pro-Templar, anti-Colossus styles), but when I'm watching pro-games, they are quite entertaining. The disadvantage that Widow Mines have over Dark Templar is that you can see and try to stop them on the way in, even if you have no detection. 'Course, that's easier said than done with turbovacs . I don't think "good entertainment value" is justifiable as a reason for their unnecessary bonus vs Protoss. Which may be okay for a lot of high level players, but for lesser skilled ones it isn't. Lesser skilled protoss play against lesser skilled terrans who won't get as much out of their mine drops. It balances out. If it doesn't for you, then alter your build to counter mine drop play more than you're doing now.
nah, that's very untrue I'm afraid. lesser skilled players will suffer a lot more because they can't deal with them. higher skilled players can maybe get like 5-6 kills. lesser skilled players can get as many as 20.
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Damn, I hear birds waking up
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On February 28 2015 12:41 Larkin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2015 12:38 Nebuchad wrote:On February 28 2015 12:32 Larkin wrote:On February 28 2015 12:25 Fanatic-Templar wrote:On February 28 2015 12:22 Larkin wrote:On February 28 2015 12:19 Fanatic-Templar wrote:On February 28 2015 12:13 Larkin wrote:On February 28 2015 12:04 PinoKotsBeer wrote:
LOLOL Showtime: "tvp is hard because of the mines, you can lose a lot of probes in a second" Guess how terran feels vs toss... with orcale, storm, etc.
I stopped playing this game, i should stop watching it as well. but it's true though. all you have to do is plonk a mine down and unless there are obs everywhere you will lose probes, and they do so much damage they can kill 7-8 probes easy. and it's kinda hard to determine if/when they're coming since terran openings can look the same - you scout reactor factory and think mines, position to defend against drops, and then die to a hellbat push (for example). oracles require micro, especially if there's a turret. in fact pretty much every form of harass for every race requires effort and micro to execute. the widow mine is basically a swarm host with no range. and splash damage. and extra damage vs protoss. you just burrow and wait for the goodies - except in TvZ where they are used much more 'appropriately' as part of the army and tactically to zone out areas/create space etc. which I like. Well, honestly it's hard to complain about a unit doing too much damage to your worker line just because you have no detection when you're Protoss. I love to make people with no detection suffer, and it doesn't require a lot of skill . 1 base widow mine can come out before obs if you open anything other than gate-robo it basically pigeonholes protoss into going straight for detection, either in the form of cannons or obs - the former takes minerals away from other uses, the latter takes gas and time that we would spend producing colossus. besides, as Protoss I complain about DTs all the time True, and believe me, I hate Widow Mines when they're used against me (and also in how they're harmful to my preferred pro-Templar, anti-Colossus styles), but when I'm watching pro-games, they are quite entertaining. The disadvantage that Widow Mines have over Dark Templar is that you can see and try to stop them on the way in, even if you have no detection. 'Course, that's easier said than done with turbovacs . I don't think "good entertainment value" is justifiable as a reason for their unnecessary bonus vs Protoss. Which may be okay for a lot of high level players, but for lesser skilled ones it isn't. Lesser skilled protoss play against lesser skilled terrans who won't get as much out of their mine drops. It balances out. If it doesn't for you, then alter your build to counter mine drop play more than you're doing now. nah, that's very untrue I'm afraid. lesser skilled players will suffer a lot more because they can't deal with them. higher skilled players can maybe get like 5-6 kills. lesser skilled players can get as many as 20.
I agree. Widow mines like swarmhosts are asymmetric in skill level needed until it reaches a certain level. The terran only needs to be good at controlling the mines, if the Protoss is good at fighting them off.
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"he finds the promised land. but hes not welcome"
rofl rotti
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On February 28 2015 12:41 Larkin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2015 12:38 Nebuchad wrote:On February 28 2015 12:32 Larkin wrote:On February 28 2015 12:25 Fanatic-Templar wrote:On February 28 2015 12:22 Larkin wrote:On February 28 2015 12:19 Fanatic-Templar wrote:On February 28 2015 12:13 Larkin wrote:On February 28 2015 12:04 PinoKotsBeer wrote:
LOLOL Showtime: "tvp is hard because of the mines, you can lose a lot of probes in a second" Guess how terran feels vs toss... with orcale, storm, etc.
I stopped playing this game, i should stop watching it as well. but it's true though. all you have to do is plonk a mine down and unless there are obs everywhere you will lose probes, and they do so much damage they can kill 7-8 probes easy. and it's kinda hard to determine if/when they're coming since terran openings can look the same - you scout reactor factory and think mines, position to defend against drops, and then die to a hellbat push (for example). oracles require micro, especially if there's a turret. in fact pretty much every form of harass for every race requires effort and micro to execute. the widow mine is basically a swarm host with no range. and splash damage. and extra damage vs protoss. you just burrow and wait for the goodies - except in TvZ where they are used much more 'appropriately' as part of the army and tactically to zone out areas/create space etc. which I like. Well, honestly it's hard to complain about a unit doing too much damage to your worker line just because you have no detection when you're Protoss. I love to make people with no detection suffer, and it doesn't require a lot of skill . 1 base widow mine can come out before obs if you open anything other than gate-robo it basically pigeonholes protoss into going straight for detection, either in the form of cannons or obs - the former takes minerals away from other uses, the latter takes gas and time that we would spend producing colossus. besides, as Protoss I complain about DTs all the time True, and believe me, I hate Widow Mines when they're used against me (and also in how they're harmful to my preferred pro-Templar, anti-Colossus styles), but when I'm watching pro-games, they are quite entertaining. The disadvantage that Widow Mines have over Dark Templar is that you can see and try to stop them on the way in, even if you have no detection. 'Course, that's easier said than done with turbovacs . I don't think "good entertainment value" is justifiable as a reason for their unnecessary bonus vs Protoss. Which may be okay for a lot of high level players, but for lesser skilled ones it isn't. Lesser skilled protoss play against lesser skilled terrans who won't get as much out of their mine drops. It balances out. If it doesn't for you, then alter your build to counter mine drop play more than you're doing now. nah, that's very untrue I'm afraid. lesser skilled players will suffer a lot more because they can't deal with them. higher skilled players can maybe get like 5-6 kills. lesser skilled players can get as many as 20.
Oh sorry I see what you meant now. "balances out" wasn't the best way to say what I wanted to say.
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On February 28 2015 12:38 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2015 12:32 Larkin wrote:On February 28 2015 12:25 Fanatic-Templar wrote:On February 28 2015 12:22 Larkin wrote:On February 28 2015 12:19 Fanatic-Templar wrote:On February 28 2015 12:13 Larkin wrote:On February 28 2015 12:04 PinoKotsBeer wrote:
LOLOL Showtime: "tvp is hard because of the mines, you can lose a lot of probes in a second" Guess how terran feels vs toss... with orcale, storm, etc.
I stopped playing this game, i should stop watching it as well. but it's true though. all you have to do is plonk a mine down and unless there are obs everywhere you will lose probes, and they do so much damage they can kill 7-8 probes easy. and it's kinda hard to determine if/when they're coming since terran openings can look the same - you scout reactor factory and think mines, position to defend against drops, and then die to a hellbat push (for example). oracles require micro, especially if there's a turret. in fact pretty much every form of harass for every race requires effort and micro to execute. the widow mine is basically a swarm host with no range. and splash damage. and extra damage vs protoss. you just burrow and wait for the goodies - except in TvZ where they are used much more 'appropriately' as part of the army and tactically to zone out areas/create space etc. which I like. Well, honestly it's hard to complain about a unit doing too much damage to your worker line just because you have no detection when you're Protoss. I love to make people with no detection suffer, and it doesn't require a lot of skill . 1 base widow mine can come out before obs if you open anything other than gate-robo it basically pigeonholes protoss into going straight for detection, either in the form of cannons or obs - the former takes minerals away from other uses, the latter takes gas and time that we would spend producing colossus. besides, as Protoss I complain about DTs all the time True, and believe me, I hate Widow Mines when they're used against me (and also in how they're harmful to my preferred pro-Templar, anti-Colossus styles), but when I'm watching pro-games, they are quite entertaining. The disadvantage that Widow Mines have over Dark Templar is that you can see and try to stop them on the way in, even if you have no detection. 'Course, that's easier said than done with turbovacs . I don't think "good entertainment value" is justifiable as a reason for their unnecessary bonus vs Protoss. Which may be okay for a lot of high level players, but for lesser skilled ones it isn't. Lesser skilled protoss play against lesser skilled terrans who won't get as much out of their mine drops. It balances out. If it doesn't for you, then alter your build to counter mine drop play more than you're doing now.
That's not really accurate. Some strategies are more rewarding to lower skill players. Both sides being of proportionately lower skill doesn't mean that the balance will be similar.
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EPT
