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On January 12 2015 01:40 Spect8rCraft wrote:
Does this mean PvP will now become T(empest)vT(empest)? Because that ability will simply wreck anything from the robo or twilight route.
I'm fairly sure certain timings will completely destroy the player who is switching to Tempest. Plus with this Phoenix opening could become standard
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On January 12 2015 01:42 Alchemik wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2015 01:41 The_Red_Viper wrote:On January 12 2015 01:38 DuduSC wrote:On January 12 2015 01:36 The_Red_Viper wrote:On January 12 2015 01:33 Lexender wrote:On January 12 2015 01:31 The_Red_Viper wrote:On January 12 2015 01:29 DJHelium wrote:
That damage over time spell is crap design What is your reasoning? "bad design" is such a meme these days I think is had to do with, "well it hit, I guess I'm fucked", theres no counter play it just hits and its a certain kill every time thats just not true at all though, you can heal/repair. Sure, right now it isn't perfect (no energy, probably too much dmg), but the concept itself is similar to irradiate, was that "crap design" too? Dude, it's 500 damage (repairs will cost a lot), and while the damage is being done, you can just stutter step the tempests while even doing more and SCVs will have a hard time running and repairing. Even if the damage gets reduced, it's still a terrible designed because it's extremely easy to play. That's more about balance and not design (most of the complaints here tbh). Which is exactly my point, "bad design" is a meme without any real meanign at this point, which is why i asked for the reasoning being "too easy to play and too hard to counter" is a balance thing?
Yes.
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On January 12 2015 01:40 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2015 01:36 The_Red_Viper wrote:On January 12 2015 01:33 Lexender wrote:On January 12 2015 01:31 The_Red_Viper wrote:On January 12 2015 01:29 DJHelium wrote:
That damage over time spell is crap design What is your reasoning? "bad design" is such a meme these days I think is had to do with, "well it hit, I guess I'm fucked", theres no counter play it just hits and its a certain kill every time thats just not true at all though, you can heal/repair. Sure, right now it isn't perfect (no energy, probably too much dmg), but the concept itself is similar to irradiate, was that "crap design" too? Irradiate was designed with no "smart"casting around and attached to a defenseless body, with actual energy management. It also enabled cool micro tricks such as 2 Vessels casting Irradiate on each other
Don't get my wrong, i think irradiate is more interesting too, i just said they are kinda similar.
I just do't think dot is "bad design" at all, the current concept might not be 100% interesting (and final), but i don't wanna say it has no place in sc2. (which is the point of a lot of posters if i interprete it correctly)
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I don't know if that tournament is such a great idea. A lot of what is featured here won't even be in the beta. It's fun and quite ridiculous, but I'm not sure it makes me want to play LotV rather than HotS.
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On January 12 2015 01:44 Everlong wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2015 01:42 Alchemik wrote:On January 12 2015 01:41 The_Red_Viper wrote:On January 12 2015 01:38 DuduSC wrote:On January 12 2015 01:36 The_Red_Viper wrote:On January 12 2015 01:33 Lexender wrote:On January 12 2015 01:31 The_Red_Viper wrote:On January 12 2015 01:29 DJHelium wrote:
That damage over time spell is crap design What is your reasoning? "bad design" is such a meme these days I think is had to do with, "well it hit, I guess I'm fucked", theres no counter play it just hits and its a certain kill every time thats just not true at all though, you can heal/repair. Sure, right now it isn't perfect (no energy, probably too much dmg), but the concept itself is similar to irradiate, was that "crap design" too? Dude, it's 500 damage (repairs will cost a lot), and while the damage is being done, you can just stutter step the tempests while even doing more and SCVs will have a hard time running and repairing. Even if the damage gets reduced, it's still a terrible designed because it's extremely easy to play. That's more about balance and not design (most of the complaints here tbh). Which is exactly my point, "bad design" is a meme without any real meanign at this point, which is why i asked for the reasoning being "too easy to play and too hard to counter" is a balance thing? Yes.
how? Protoss in HotS isn't OP, but it's dumb, because there is stuff that is easy to execute and hard to counter
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On January 12 2015 01:42 Alchemik wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2015 01:41 The_Red_Viper wrote:On January 12 2015 01:38 DuduSC wrote:On January 12 2015 01:36 The_Red_Viper wrote:On January 12 2015 01:33 Lexender wrote:On January 12 2015 01:31 The_Red_Viper wrote:On January 12 2015 01:29 DJHelium wrote:
That damage over time spell is crap design What is your reasoning? "bad design" is such a meme these days I think is had to do with, "well it hit, I guess I'm fucked", theres no counter play it just hits and its a certain kill every time thats just not true at all though, you can heal/repair. Sure, right now it isn't perfect (no energy, probably too much dmg), but the concept itself is similar to irradiate, was that "crap design" too? Dude, it's 500 damage (repairs will cost a lot), and while the damage is being done, you can just stutter step the tempests while even doing more and SCVs will have a hard time running and repairing. Even if the damage gets reduced, it's still a terrible designed because it's extremely easy to play. That's more about balance and not design (most of the complaints here tbh). Which is exactly my point, "bad design" is a meme without any real meanign at this point, which is why i asked for the reasoning being "too easy to play and too hard to counter" is a balance thing?
The dmg of 500 is balance, yes
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On January 12 2015 01:45 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2015 01:42 Alchemik wrote:On January 12 2015 01:41 The_Red_Viper wrote:On January 12 2015 01:38 DuduSC wrote:On January 12 2015 01:36 The_Red_Viper wrote:On January 12 2015 01:33 Lexender wrote:On January 12 2015 01:31 The_Red_Viper wrote:On January 12 2015 01:29 DJHelium wrote:
That damage over time spell is crap design What is your reasoning? "bad design" is such a meme these days I think is had to do with, "well it hit, I guess I'm fucked", theres no counter play it just hits and its a certain kill every time thats just not true at all though, you can heal/repair. Sure, right now it isn't perfect (no energy, probably too much dmg), but the concept itself is similar to irradiate, was that "crap design" too? Dude, it's 500 damage (repairs will cost a lot), and while the damage is being done, you can just stutter step the tempests while even doing more and SCVs will have a hard time running and repairing. Even if the damage gets reduced, it's still a terrible designed because it's extremely easy to play. That's more about balance and not design (most of the complaints here tbh). Which is exactly my point, "bad design" is a meme without any real meanign at this point, which is why i asked for the reasoning being "too easy to play and too hard to counter" is a balance thing? The dmg of 500 is balance, yes
500 damage is balance complain
easy to play and hard to counter is design complain
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On January 12 2015 01:45 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2015 01:42 Alchemik wrote:On January 12 2015 01:41 The_Red_Viper wrote:On January 12 2015 01:38 DuduSC wrote:On January 12 2015 01:36 The_Red_Viper wrote:On January 12 2015 01:33 Lexender wrote:On January 12 2015 01:31 The_Red_Viper wrote:On January 12 2015 01:29 DJHelium wrote:
That damage over time spell is crap design What is your reasoning? "bad design" is such a meme these days I think is had to do with, "well it hit, I guess I'm fucked", theres no counter play it just hits and its a certain kill every time thats just not true at all though, you can heal/repair. Sure, right now it isn't perfect (no energy, probably too much dmg), but the concept itself is similar to irradiate, was that "crap design" too? Dude, it's 500 damage (repairs will cost a lot), and while the damage is being done, you can just stutter step the tempests while even doing more and SCVs will have a hard time running and repairing. Even if the damage gets reduced, it's still a terrible designed because it's extremely easy to play. That's more about balance and not design (most of the complaints here tbh). Which is exactly my point, "bad design" is a meme without any real meanign at this point, which is why i asked for the reasoning being "too easy to play and too hard to counter" is a balance thing? The dmg of 500 is balance, yes
The balance of the damage is designed to take out nearly anything, which is why it needs 500 by design. 
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On January 12 2015 01:45 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2015 01:42 Alchemik wrote:On January 12 2015 01:41 The_Red_Viper wrote:On January 12 2015 01:38 DuduSC wrote:On January 12 2015 01:36 The_Red_Viper wrote:On January 12 2015 01:33 Lexender wrote:On January 12 2015 01:31 The_Red_Viper wrote:On January 12 2015 01:29 DJHelium wrote:
That damage over time spell is crap design What is your reasoning? "bad design" is such a meme these days I think is had to do with, "well it hit, I guess I'm fucked", theres no counter play it just hits and its a certain kill every time thats just not true at all though, you can heal/repair. Sure, right now it isn't perfect (no energy, probably too much dmg), but the concept itself is similar to irradiate, was that "crap design" too? Dude, it's 500 damage (repairs will cost a lot), and while the damage is being done, you can just stutter step the tempests while even doing more and SCVs will have a hard time running and repairing. Even if the damage gets reduced, it's still a terrible designed because it's extremely easy to play. That's more about balance and not design (most of the complaints here tbh). Which is exactly my point, "bad design" is a meme without any real meanign at this point, which is why i asked for the reasoning being "too easy to play and too hard to counter" is a balance thing? The dmg of 500 is balance, yes
But the spell itself is design. Protoss has enough lame crap as it is. They don't need more cheese abilities.
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On January 12 2015 01:42 Lexender wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2015 01:36 SC2Toastie wrote:On January 12 2015 01:33 Lexender wrote:On January 12 2015 01:31 The_Red_Viper wrote:On January 12 2015 01:29 DJHelium wrote:
That damage over time spell is crap design What is your reasoning? "bad design" is such a meme these days I think is had to do with, "well it hit, I guess I'm fucked", theres no counter play it just hits and its a certain kill every time Repair/heal/Transfuse Only Protoss has a guaranteed loss. At 10 damage per second to counter 5 temepest you would need like 15-20 SCV just to counter the unit spell
1 or 2 I suppose. It depends on the unit, but a cyclone takes what, 45 seconds for 200 HP? That means it'll take slightly more than 2 SCVs to repair the spell away.
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On January 12 2015 01:44 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2015 01:40 TheDwf wrote:On January 12 2015 01:36 The_Red_Viper wrote:On January 12 2015 01:33 Lexender wrote:On January 12 2015 01:31 The_Red_Viper wrote:On January 12 2015 01:29 DJHelium wrote:
That damage over time spell is crap design What is your reasoning? "bad design" is such a meme these days I think is had to do with, "well it hit, I guess I'm fucked", theres no counter play it just hits and its a certain kill every time thats just not true at all though, you can heal/repair. Sure, right now it isn't perfect (no energy, probably too much dmg), but the concept itself is similar to irradiate, was that "crap design" too? Irradiate was designed with no "smart"casting around and attached to a defenseless body, with actual energy management. It also enabled cool micro tricks such as 2 Vessels casting Irradiate on each other Don't get my wrong, i think irradiate is more interesting too, i just said they are kinda similar. I just do't think dot is "bad design" at all, the current concept might not be 100% interesting (and final), but i don't wanna say it has no place in sc2. (which is the point of a lot of posters if i interprete it correctly)
Obviously the Tempest spell is inspired by Irradiate, but even perfectly similar spells such as Storm have different behaviours because the environement has been completely modified.
The concept of DoT isn't bad per se (I could for instance see something like Plague in SC2), but like every spell it has to be weighed carefully. For example, Yamato would be a disaster if some midgame unit could cast it.
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On January 12 2015 01:47 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2015 01:45 The_Red_Viper wrote:On January 12 2015 01:42 Alchemik wrote:On January 12 2015 01:41 The_Red_Viper wrote:On January 12 2015 01:38 DuduSC wrote:On January 12 2015 01:36 The_Red_Viper wrote:On January 12 2015 01:33 Lexender wrote:On January 12 2015 01:31 The_Red_Viper wrote:On January 12 2015 01:29 DJHelium wrote:
That damage over time spell is crap design What is your reasoning? "bad design" is such a meme these days I think is had to do with, "well it hit, I guess I'm fucked", theres no counter play it just hits and its a certain kill every time thats just not true at all though, you can heal/repair. Sure, right now it isn't perfect (no energy, probably too much dmg), but the concept itself is similar to irradiate, was that "crap design" too? Dude, it's 500 damage (repairs will cost a lot), and while the damage is being done, you can just stutter step the tempests while even doing more and SCVs will have a hard time running and repairing. Even if the damage gets reduced, it's still a terrible designed because it's extremely easy to play. That's more about balance and not design (most of the complaints here tbh). Which is exactly my point, "bad design" is a meme without any real meanign at this point, which is why i asked for the reasoning being "too easy to play and too hard to counter" is a balance thing? The dmg of 500 is balance, yes The balance of the damage is designed to take out nearly anything, which is why it needs 500 by design.
fair enough, how is the dps rate? that could also change (for easier heal/repair).
I just don't agree that this spell is nearly as bad as you guys say it is, even though no energy requirement is funny indeed.
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Yeah OK, proxy Herc is the standard TvT build... Pathetic
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At least cheese is not dead 
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Well scouting and a bunker would be GG on vs Hercs
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I hope we see some other builds now
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At least we know beta won't be useless.
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On January 12 2015 01:48 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2015 01:47 Big J wrote:On January 12 2015 01:45 The_Red_Viper wrote:On January 12 2015 01:42 Alchemik wrote:On January 12 2015 01:41 The_Red_Viper wrote:On January 12 2015 01:38 DuduSC wrote:On January 12 2015 01:36 The_Red_Viper wrote:On January 12 2015 01:33 Lexender wrote:On January 12 2015 01:31 The_Red_Viper wrote:On January 12 2015 01:29 DJHelium wrote:
That damage over time spell is crap design What is your reasoning? "bad design" is such a meme these days I think is had to do with, "well it hit, I guess I'm fucked", theres no counter play it just hits and its a certain kill every time thats just not true at all though, you can heal/repair. Sure, right now it isn't perfect (no energy, probably too much dmg), but the concept itself is similar to irradiate, was that "crap design" too? Dude, it's 500 damage (repairs will cost a lot), and while the damage is being done, you can just stutter step the tempests while even doing more and SCVs will have a hard time running and repairing. Even if the damage gets reduced, it's still a terrible designed because it's extremely easy to play. That's more about balance and not design (most of the complaints here tbh). Which is exactly my point, "bad design" is a meme without any real meanign at this point, which is why i asked for the reasoning being "too easy to play and too hard to counter" is a balance thing? The dmg of 500 is balance, yes The balance of the damage is designed to take out nearly anything, which is why it needs 500 by design. fair enough, how is the dps rate? that could also change (for easier heal/repair). I just don't agree that this spell is nearly as bad as you guys say it is, even though no energy requirement is funny indeed.
Meh, was not a fan of irradiate. And that one seems even worse because it isn't balanced around splash and diminishing damage by pulling the unit out of your other stuff.
To be honest, the first playstyle that comes to mind with that thing is that you turtle and mine out the map while killing your opponent for free over time. Especially because the Tempest is the ideal turtle unit with its range and now with its speed is incredible good at not being punishable when casting the spell.
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On January 12 2015 01:48 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2015 01:47 Big J wrote:On January 12 2015 01:45 The_Red_Viper wrote:On January 12 2015 01:42 Alchemik wrote:On January 12 2015 01:41 The_Red_Viper wrote:On January 12 2015 01:38 DuduSC wrote:On January 12 2015 01:36 The_Red_Viper wrote:On January 12 2015 01:33 Lexender wrote:On January 12 2015 01:31 The_Red_Viper wrote:On January 12 2015 01:29 DJHelium wrote:
That damage over time spell is crap design What is your reasoning? "bad design" is such a meme these days I think is had to do with, "well it hit, I guess I'm fucked", theres no counter play it just hits and its a certain kill every time thats just not true at all though, you can heal/repair. Sure, right now it isn't perfect (no energy, probably too much dmg), but the concept itself is similar to irradiate, was that "crap design" too? Dude, it's 500 damage (repairs will cost a lot), and while the damage is being done, you can just stutter step the tempests while even doing more and SCVs will have a hard time running and repairing. Even if the damage gets reduced, it's still a terrible designed because it's extremely easy to play. That's more about balance and not design (most of the complaints here tbh). Which is exactly my point, "bad design" is a meme without any real meanign at this point, which is why i asked for the reasoning being "too easy to play and too hard to counter" is a balance thing? The dmg of 500 is balance, yes The balance of the damage is designed to take out nearly anything, which is why it needs 500 by design. fair enough, how is the dps rate? that could also change (for easier heal/repair). I just don't agree that this spell is nearly as bad as you guys say it is, even though no energy requirement is funny indeed.
500 damage over 50 seconds, 1 tick of 10 damage every second.
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