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On September 07 2014 07:45 SatedSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2014 07:43 Alchemik wrote:On September 07 2014 07:40 Rollora wrote:On September 07 2014 07:36 Alchemik wrote:
ah, alright, ToD was just being stupid as earlier today, okay then. thanks stupid? I'd say emotional. You must play Zerg then, but then again you don't know how frustrating it is, to lose against a Unit that spawns free units (and not doing anything besides that, nothing for the game, not harassing etc (not saying that happened here, but happened way too often to me on ladder)) and therefore its so hard to actually hurt the zerg etc. Free units is still a stupid Idea to mee and SH make the game really boring compared to actually work for the win, or as the perspective of he watcher, see working one for the win. yes, stupid you can tell the same about Protoss late-game, when you lose to it it just feels stupid and no-skill, even though it isn't, just like with SH plus, without SH there's no way to really fight that army, so yeah, it's not like they're not needed Swarm Hosts aren't needed, Zerg players just aren't experimenting because Swarm Hosts are currently the path of least resistance...
of course they are needed, the other way is playing with mutas and never letting Protoss get to that deathball (outside of doing all-ins, of course)
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oh god no.... not again pig :'(
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On September 07 2014 07:50 SatedSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2014 07:47 Alchemik wrote:On September 07 2014 07:45 SatedSC2 wrote:On September 07 2014 07:43 Alchemik wrote:On September 07 2014 07:40 Rollora wrote:On September 07 2014 07:36 Alchemik wrote:
ah, alright, ToD was just being stupid as earlier today, okay then. thanks stupid? I'd say emotional. You must play Zerg then, but then again you don't know how frustrating it is, to lose against a Unit that spawns free units (and not doing anything besides that, nothing for the game, not harassing etc (not saying that happened here, but happened way too often to me on ladder)) and therefore its so hard to actually hurt the zerg etc. Free units is still a stupid Idea to mee and SH make the game really boring compared to actually work for the win, or as the perspective of he watcher, see working one for the win. yes, stupid you can tell the same about Protoss late-game, when you lose to it it just feels stupid and no-skill, even though it isn't, just like with SH plus, without SH there's no way to really fight that army, so yeah, it's not like they're not needed Swarm Hosts aren't needed, Zerg players just aren't experimenting because Swarm Hosts are currently the path of least resistance... of course they are needed, the other way is playing with mutas and never letting Protoss get to that deathball (outside of doing all-ins, of course) I guess people like Scarlett winning games by going double-upgraded Ultralisks into Queen/Ultralisk/Infestor/Brood Lord has never happened? There are other options, whether you care to acknowledge their existence or not.
of course that GAMES have happened, they even might be more interesting to watch, but that doesn't mean it's something that's actually in any way better or something
there also was a game where NesTea won with lair and spine crawler rush in GSL, that does not mean it's very good
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On September 07 2014 07:35 KaneMX wrote:"I have no idea" "how you zergs" "enjoy playing sc2" "wp" "gg"
we dont enjoy going swarm hosts but we dislike losing more
On September 07 2014 07:37 SmileZerg wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2014 07:35 yubo56 wrote:On September 07 2014 07:34 Alchemik wrote:
what did ToD say at the end? "no idea how you zergs have fun playing this game.. gg wp" French salt, but so real. I miss good zvp haha There never was good ZvP in SC2. Colossus ruined the matchup. Colossus ruins every vP matchup, honestly.
tbh its templar. there are counters to colossus but the only counter to deathball+templar is swarm hosts or a really good ultra/brood timing which is very hard to do
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On September 07 2014 07:56 SatedSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2014 07:54 Alchemik wrote:On September 07 2014 07:50 SatedSC2 wrote:On September 07 2014 07:47 Alchemik wrote:On September 07 2014 07:45 SatedSC2 wrote:On September 07 2014 07:43 Alchemik wrote:On September 07 2014 07:40 Rollora wrote:On September 07 2014 07:36 Alchemik wrote:
ah, alright, ToD was just being stupid as earlier today, okay then. thanks stupid? I'd say emotional. You must play Zerg then, but then again you don't know how frustrating it is, to lose against a Unit that spawns free units (and not doing anything besides that, nothing for the game, not harassing etc (not saying that happened here, but happened way too often to me on ladder)) and therefore its so hard to actually hurt the zerg etc. Free units is still a stupid Idea to mee and SH make the game really boring compared to actually work for the win, or as the perspective of he watcher, see working one for the win. yes, stupid you can tell the same about Protoss late-game, when you lose to it it just feels stupid and no-skill, even though it isn't, just like with SH plus, without SH there's no way to really fight that army, so yeah, it's not like they're not needed Swarm Hosts aren't needed, Zerg players just aren't experimenting because Swarm Hosts are currently the path of least resistance... of course they are needed, the other way is playing with mutas and never letting Protoss get to that deathball (outside of doing all-ins, of course) I guess people like Scarlett winning games by going double-upgraded Ultralisks into Queen/Ultralisk/Infestor/Brood Lord has never happened? There are other options, whether you care to acknowledge their existence or not. of course that GAMES have happened, they even might be more interesting to watch, but that doesn't mean it's something that's actually in any way better or something Doesn't matter if it's better, just that it can exist. You can beat Protoss "deathballs" without going Swarm Hosts. That's my only point.
what's the point in playing something that's worse when the money come into play and you need to win, though?
a Terran could technically go mass marine medivac in the late-game to fight Zerg's late-game army and I'm sure he'd win few games vs worse player, but that doesn't make it very good and there's kinda no reason to do it
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On September 07 2014 07:59 SatedSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2014 07:58 Alchemik wrote:On September 07 2014 07:56 SatedSC2 wrote:On September 07 2014 07:54 Alchemik wrote:On September 07 2014 07:50 SatedSC2 wrote:On September 07 2014 07:47 Alchemik wrote:On September 07 2014 07:45 SatedSC2 wrote:On September 07 2014 07:43 Alchemik wrote:On September 07 2014 07:40 Rollora wrote:On September 07 2014 07:36 Alchemik wrote:
ah, alright, ToD was just being stupid as earlier today, okay then. thanks stupid? I'd say emotional. You must play Zerg then, but then again you don't know how frustrating it is, to lose against a Unit that spawns free units (and not doing anything besides that, nothing for the game, not harassing etc (not saying that happened here, but happened way too often to me on ladder)) and therefore its so hard to actually hurt the zerg etc. Free units is still a stupid Idea to mee and SH make the game really boring compared to actually work for the win, or as the perspective of he watcher, see working one for the win. yes, stupid you can tell the same about Protoss late-game, when you lose to it it just feels stupid and no-skill, even though it isn't, just like with SH plus, without SH there's no way to really fight that army, so yeah, it's not like they're not needed Swarm Hosts aren't needed, Zerg players just aren't experimenting because Swarm Hosts are currently the path of least resistance... of course they are needed, the other way is playing with mutas and never letting Protoss get to that deathball (outside of doing all-ins, of course) I guess people like Scarlett winning games by going double-upgraded Ultralisks into Queen/Ultralisk/Infestor/Brood Lord has never happened? There are other options, whether you care to acknowledge their existence or not. of course that GAMES have happened, they even might be more interesting to watch, but that doesn't mean it's something that's actually in any way better or something Doesn't matter if it's better, just that it can exist. You can beat Protoss "deathballs" without going Swarm Hosts. That's my only point. what's the point in playing something that's worse when the money come into play and you need to win, though? I don't believe I ever said that Zerg players are wrong to go Swarm Host..? All I am saying is that Zerg can deal with "deathballs" without the need for Swarm Host: They are not a "required" unit and I just think that the game would be better if they didn't exist. Replace them with Lurkers. Easy.
well, that's a pretty bad argument tbh. just because you can win a game without going SH vs the late-game Protoss army, doesn't mean you can actually do that reliably and that it's good
plus, how do you deal with Zerg's horrible AA if there are lurkers instead of SH?
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On September 07 2014 08:03 Alchemik wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2014 07:59 SatedSC2 wrote:On September 07 2014 07:58 Alchemik wrote:On September 07 2014 07:56 SatedSC2 wrote:On September 07 2014 07:54 Alchemik wrote:On September 07 2014 07:50 SatedSC2 wrote:On September 07 2014 07:47 Alchemik wrote:On September 07 2014 07:45 SatedSC2 wrote:On September 07 2014 07:43 Alchemik wrote:On September 07 2014 07:40 Rollora wrote:
[quote]
stupid?
I'd say emotional.
You must play Zerg then, but then again you don't know how frustrating it is, to lose against a Unit that spawns free units (and not doing anything besides that, nothing for the game, not harassing etc (not saying that happened here, but happened way too often to me on ladder)) and therefore its so hard to actually hurt the zerg etc.
Free units is still a stupid Idea to mee and SH make the game really boring compared to actually work for the win, or as the perspective of he watcher, see working one for the win. yes, stupid you can tell the same about Protoss late-game, when you lose to it it just feels stupid and no-skill, even though it isn't, just like with SH plus, without SH there's no way to really fight that army, so yeah, it's not like they're not needed Swarm Hosts aren't needed, Zerg players just aren't experimenting because Swarm Hosts are currently the path of least resistance... of course they are needed, the other way is playing with mutas and never letting Protoss get to that deathball (outside of doing all-ins, of course) I guess people like Scarlett winning games by going double-upgraded Ultralisks into Queen/Ultralisk/Infestor/Brood Lord has never happened? There are other options, whether you care to acknowledge their existence or not. of course that GAMES have happened, they even might be more interesting to watch, but that doesn't mean it's something that's actually in any way better or something Doesn't matter if it's better, just that it can exist. You can beat Protoss "deathballs" without going Swarm Hosts. That's my only point. what's the point in playing something that's worse when the money come into play and you need to win, though? I don't believe I ever said that Zerg players are wrong to go Swarm Host..? All I am saying is that Zerg can deal with "deathballs" without the need for Swarm Host: They are not a "required" unit and I just think that the game would be better if they didn't exist. Replace them with Lurkers. Easy. well, that's a pretty bad argument tbh. just because you can win a game without going SH vs the late-game Protoss army, doesn't mean you can actually do that reliably plus, how do you deal with Zerg's horrible AA if there are lurkers instead of SH?
lets not start this. toss players have an insane prejudice against SH and because 1/50 games zerg wins in lategame with ultras and brood lords they take that as proof that zerg players "choose" to "abuse" SH, kind of like how protoss "abuses" terran with colossus or terran "abuses" zerg with widow mines
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On September 07 2014 08:05 SatedSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2014 08:03 Alchemik wrote:On September 07 2014 07:59 SatedSC2 wrote:On September 07 2014 07:58 Alchemik wrote:On September 07 2014 07:56 SatedSC2 wrote:On September 07 2014 07:54 Alchemik wrote:On September 07 2014 07:50 SatedSC2 wrote:On September 07 2014 07:47 Alchemik wrote:On September 07 2014 07:45 SatedSC2 wrote:On September 07 2014 07:43 Alchemik wrote:
[quote]
yes, stupid
you can tell the same about Protoss late-game, when you lose to it it just feels stupid and no-skill, even though it isn't, just like with SH
plus, without SH there's no way to really fight that army, so yeah, it's not like they're not needed Swarm Hosts aren't needed, Zerg players just aren't experimenting because Swarm Hosts are currently the path of least resistance... of course they are needed, the other way is playing with mutas and never letting Protoss get to that deathball (outside of doing all-ins, of course) I guess people like Scarlett winning games by going double-upgraded Ultralisks into Queen/Ultralisk/Infestor/Brood Lord has never happened? There are other options, whether you care to acknowledge their existence or not. of course that GAMES have happened, they even might be more interesting to watch, but that doesn't mean it's something that's actually in any way better or something Doesn't matter if it's better, just that it can exist. You can beat Protoss "deathballs" without going Swarm Hosts. That's my only point. what's the point in playing something that's worse when the money come into play and you need to win, though? I don't believe I ever said that Zerg players are wrong to go Swarm Host..? All I am saying is that Zerg can deal with "deathballs" without the need for Swarm Host: They are not a "required" unit and I just think that the game would be better if they didn't exist. Replace them with Lurkers. Easy. well, that's a pretty bad argument tbh. just because you can win a game without going SH vs the late-game Protoss army, doesn't mean you can actually do that reliably and that it's good plus, how do you deal with Zerg's horrible AA if there are lurkers instead of SH? We wouldn't know that until Zerg is forced to try. I really don't believe that Zerg is in as bad a spot vs. "deathballs" as they think they are. What do Swarm Hosts - a unit that can't shoot up - have to do with anti-air..?
due to locusts swarm hosts deal with ground more cost efficiently than roach/hydra or melee, allowing zerg to use supply on anti air. thats what reduced the void ray component of the meta deathball. at the beginning of hots zerg was still trying to fight colossus/void with roach/hydra/queen/infestor and getting slaughtered until the SH meta developed
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Ahahahahaahahahah i'm dying of laughing omg this hatch ;D
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On September 07 2014 07:43 Alchemik wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2014 07:40 Rollora wrote:On September 07 2014 07:36 Alchemik wrote:
ah, alright, ToD was just being stupid as earlier today, okay then. thanks stupid? I'd say emotional. You must play Zerg then, but then again you don't know how frustrating it is, to lose against a Unit that spawns free units (and not doing anything besides that, nothing for the game, not harassing etc (not saying that happened here, but happened way too often to me on ladder)) and therefore its so hard to actually hurt the zerg etc. Free units is still a stupid Idea to mee and SH make the game really boring compared to actually work for the win, or as the perspective of he watcher, see working one for the win. yes, stupid you can tell the same about Protoss late-game, when you lose to it it just feels stupid and no-skill, even though it isn't, just like with SH plus, without SH there's no way to really fight that army, so yeah, it's not like they're not needed
no actually the really are not needed that way, sorry. There weren't needed in WoL or BroodLord Winfestor as the game was also called. And I am 100% sure they don't need to be this stupid free units. Energy? Yes. Lurker-Like? Yes.
But free units that not only crawl over half the map AND can shoot...
And there are so many situations where, when the zerg has swarm hosts he can play so safe... too safe. It is too hard to actually do something about them then.
I also hate these forever-taking Mech vs SH games...
And I hate this last game already, because without SH Tod would have won 100x already
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On September 07 2014 08:05 SatedSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2014 08:03 Alchemik wrote:On September 07 2014 07:59 SatedSC2 wrote:On September 07 2014 07:58 Alchemik wrote:On September 07 2014 07:56 SatedSC2 wrote:On September 07 2014 07:54 Alchemik wrote:On September 07 2014 07:50 SatedSC2 wrote:On September 07 2014 07:47 Alchemik wrote:On September 07 2014 07:45 SatedSC2 wrote:On September 07 2014 07:43 Alchemik wrote:
[quote]
yes, stupid
you can tell the same about Protoss late-game, when you lose to it it just feels stupid and no-skill, even though it isn't, just like with SH
plus, without SH there's no way to really fight that army, so yeah, it's not like they're not needed Swarm Hosts aren't needed, Zerg players just aren't experimenting because Swarm Hosts are currently the path of least resistance... of course they are needed, the other way is playing with mutas and never letting Protoss get to that deathball (outside of doing all-ins, of course) I guess people like Scarlett winning games by going double-upgraded Ultralisks into Queen/Ultralisk/Infestor/Brood Lord has never happened? There are other options, whether you care to acknowledge their existence or not. of course that GAMES have happened, they even might be more interesting to watch, but that doesn't mean it's something that's actually in any way better or something Doesn't matter if it's better, just that it can exist. You can beat Protoss "deathballs" without going Swarm Hosts. That's my only point. what's the point in playing something that's worse when the money come into play and you need to win, though? I don't believe I ever said that Zerg players are wrong to go Swarm Host..? All I am saying is that Zerg can deal with "deathballs" without the need for Swarm Host: They are not a "required" unit and I just think that the game would be better if they didn't exist. Replace them with Lurkers. Easy. well, that's a pretty bad argument tbh. just because you can win a game without going SH vs the late-game Protoss army, doesn't mean you can actually do that reliably and that it's good plus, how do you deal with Zerg's horrible AA if there are lurkers instead of SH? We wouldn't know that until Zerg is forced to try. I really don't believe that Zerg is in as bad a spot vs. "deathballs" as they think they are. What do Swarm Hosts - a unit that can't shoot up - have to do with anti-air..?
you used Scarlett as an example of something else than SH working vs Protoss. alright, why do you think she uses them now, then? and if you say something like "it's easier", I'm gonna laugh
......Swarm Hosts are long-ranged units, while lurkers aren't. it means they can attack while being on creep, protected by spores, which are NEEDED for anti-air, since Zerg's AA is horrible. + what brickrd said
plus, lurkers don't even have enough range to reach siege tanks
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This game, these games. Madness.
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ToD could have won about 77 times now I think.
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EPT
