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[Red Bull BG] Detroit - Day 2 - Page 33

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 31 32 33 34 35 63 Next
Zealously
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
East Gorteau22261 Posts
August 23 2014 20:16 GMT
#641
Trust me, this next series will be a stomp
AdministratorBreak the chains
Squat
Profile Joined September 2013
Sweden7978 Posts
August 23 2014 20:16 GMT
#642
On August 24 2014 05:04 KeksX wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 24 2014 05:01 Squat wrote:
On August 24 2014 04:59 KeksX wrote:
On August 24 2014 04:56 Squat wrote:
On August 24 2014 04:52 KeksX wrote:
On August 24 2014 04:49 Squat wrote:
On August 24 2014 04:45 PhoenixVoid wrote:
On August 24 2014 04:41 Squat wrote:
On August 24 2014 04:39 IntoTheheart wrote:
On August 24 2014 04:34 Squat wrote:
[quote]
Which is what, like 192 centimetres? I am not completely fluent in the full foreigner measurement system.


186, I think. I know a little bit of American measurements, since I'm Canadian. T_T

6 even is like 181, 6'3 is definitely closer to 190+.

On a different note, I really hope zerg gets some interesting options for engaging off creep in LotV. It's so frustrating how the entire army is rendered almost useless when the creep is gone.

Dumb theorycrafting here for LotV but perhaps a minor speed upgrade off creep on Hive tech? Like a 10% speed bonus for all ground units might be enough to prevent Zerg from being so weak off creep.

Honestly, I'd just bite the bullet and nerf creep. The speed differential is just too much. Decrease speed on creep, increase speed off. Right now, creep is technically quite OP, it's just that every zerg ground unit except lings moves like a 90 year old arthritis patient off creep, so it balances out.


But creep actually requires APM and strategic thinking whereas simply buffing speed off creep would remove depth. Creep is as "OP" as other abilities(they only look OP in the hands of someone utilizing it good enough).

The problem is that it's too binary. In ZvT, if you are on creep, you're good, if not, you might as well not even try. It's too drastic of a difference. It should be a bonus, not mandatory. I'd argue it actually limits depth in its current implementation, because it restricts zerg so harshly in the late game.


This pretty much applies for many things in the design theme of SC2, though. Force fields great/super bad, splits great/super bad etc, there's little inbetween. I agree that going towards "less harsher" differences in game mechanics might be good but I just don't see it being done without destroying the mechanic itself(see: nydus).

Creep would be far easier to tune than forcefields and splits. They are not comparable. Any speed bonus is good, creep spread would still be beneficial. I think that is a false fear, creep could easily be relevant without being binary.


How so? If you buff the speed off creep so that you don't need creep anymore, I can see it being used as regularly as Nydus(e.g. not worth the investment, much rather get extra lings instead of queens for creep or save energy for transfuse), and if you don't buff it enough and creep spread would still be much better then I think it would still stay binary.

Depends on what you want to achieve though, if you're only talking about ZvT with Terran BioMine it seems like it's really hard to not make it binary since it's already a really close case.

More speed will always be better. There is no situation where not having creep spread would be preferable to having it, even if the difference is smaller. If it was so inconsequential that it would be better to not make the queens to spread it, it has been overnerfed. It would be an iterative process, obviously. I'm confident it could be done.
"Digital. They have digital. What is digital?" - Donald J Trump
KingofdaHipHop
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
United States25602 Posts
August 23 2014 20:16 GMT
#643
Stardust confirms that he is a troll.
Rain | herO | sOs | Dear | Neeb | ByuN | INnoVation | Dream | ForGG | Maru | ByuL | Golden | Solar | Soulkey | Scarlett!!!
GumBa
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
United Kingdom31935 Posts
August 23 2014 20:17 GMT
#644
I love Koreans castin xD and how good is Trusts PvZ?
To all the haters: you deserve to witness many, many more Serral victories, worthy of the godlike player he is.
AWalker9
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
United Kingdom7229 Posts
August 23 2014 20:17 GMT
#645
On August 24 2014 05:16 Zealously wrote:
Trust me, this next series will be a stomp


Roses are red
viOLets are blue
Trust's gonna crush this
And make his way through
soOjwa has returned to smite all that stand in his way
Zealously
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
East Gorteau22261 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-08-23 20:18:36
August 23 2014 20:17 GMT
#646
On August 24 2014 05:17 GumBa wrote:
I love Koreans castin xD and how good is Trusts PvZ?


How good is Innovation? (It's not actually great, but it's pretty decent. He 2-0'd Byul some time recently)
AdministratorBreak the chains
stuchiu
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
August 23 2014 20:18 GMT
#647
On August 24 2014 05:17 GumBa wrote:
I love Koreans castin xD and how good is Trusts PvZ?


Can beat everything except 10 pool.
Moderator
KingofdaHipHop
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
United States25602 Posts
August 23 2014 20:18 GMT
#648
Stardust: "Taeja, please".
Taeja: "Here is... San."
Rain | herO | sOs | Dear | Neeb | ByuN | INnoVation | Dream | ForGG | Maru | ByuL | Golden | Solar | Soulkey | Scarlett!!!
AWalker9
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
United Kingdom7229 Posts
August 23 2014 20:18 GMT
#649
On August 24 2014 05:17 Zealously wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 24 2014 05:17 GumBa wrote:
I love Koreans castin xD and how good is Trusts PvZ?


How good is Innovation?


Solid RO16 Code S player
soOjwa has returned to smite all that stand in his way
KeksX
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany3634 Posts
August 23 2014 20:18 GMT
#650
On August 24 2014 05:16 Squat wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 24 2014 05:04 KeksX wrote:
On August 24 2014 05:01 Squat wrote:
On August 24 2014 04:59 KeksX wrote:
On August 24 2014 04:56 Squat wrote:
On August 24 2014 04:52 KeksX wrote:
On August 24 2014 04:49 Squat wrote:
On August 24 2014 04:45 PhoenixVoid wrote:
On August 24 2014 04:41 Squat wrote:
On August 24 2014 04:39 IntoTheheart wrote:
[quote]

186, I think. I know a little bit of American measurements, since I'm Canadian. T_T

6 even is like 181, 6'3 is definitely closer to 190+.

On a different note, I really hope zerg gets some interesting options for engaging off creep in LotV. It's so frustrating how the entire army is rendered almost useless when the creep is gone.

Dumb theorycrafting here for LotV but perhaps a minor speed upgrade off creep on Hive tech? Like a 10% speed bonus for all ground units might be enough to prevent Zerg from being so weak off creep.

Honestly, I'd just bite the bullet and nerf creep. The speed differential is just too much. Decrease speed on creep, increase speed off. Right now, creep is technically quite OP, it's just that every zerg ground unit except lings moves like a 90 year old arthritis patient off creep, so it balances out.


But creep actually requires APM and strategic thinking whereas simply buffing speed off creep would remove depth. Creep is as "OP" as other abilities(they only look OP in the hands of someone utilizing it good enough).

The problem is that it's too binary. In ZvT, if you are on creep, you're good, if not, you might as well not even try. It's too drastic of a difference. It should be a bonus, not mandatory. I'd argue it actually limits depth in its current implementation, because it restricts zerg so harshly in the late game.


This pretty much applies for many things in the design theme of SC2, though. Force fields great/super bad, splits great/super bad etc, there's little inbetween. I agree that going towards "less harsher" differences in game mechanics might be good but I just don't see it being done without destroying the mechanic itself(see: nydus).

Creep would be far easier to tune than forcefields and splits. They are not comparable. Any speed bonus is good, creep spread would still be beneficial. I think that is a false fear, creep could easily be relevant without being binary.


How so? If you buff the speed off creep so that you don't need creep anymore, I can see it being used as regularly as Nydus(e.g. not worth the investment, much rather get extra lings instead of queens for creep or save energy for transfuse), and if you don't buff it enough and creep spread would still be much better then I think it would still stay binary.

Depends on what you want to achieve though, if you're only talking about ZvT with Terran BioMine it seems like it's really hard to not make it binary since it's already a really close case.

More speed will always be better. There is no situation where not having creep spread would be preferable to having it, even if the difference is smaller. If it was so inconsequential that it would be better to not make the queens to spread it, it has been overnerfed. It would be an iterative process, obviously. I'm confident it could be done.


Certainly would be interesting to see though as the more I think of it the more I agree with it being too much of a gamebreaking element in ZvT atm.
GumBa
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
United Kingdom31935 Posts
August 23 2014 20:18 GMT
#651
On August 24 2014 05:17 Zealously wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 24 2014 05:17 GumBa wrote:
I love Koreans castin xD and how good is Trusts PvZ?


How good is Innovation?

Excellent
To all the haters: you deserve to witness many, many more Serral victories, worthy of the godlike player he is.
KingofdaHipHop
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
United States25602 Posts
August 23 2014 20:19 GMT
#652
On August 24 2014 05:18 stuchiu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 24 2014 05:17 GumBa wrote:
I love Koreans castin xD and how good is Trusts PvZ?


Can beat everything except 10 pool.

Real talk what beats a 10 pool though.
Rain | herO | sOs | Dear | Neeb | ByuN | INnoVation | Dream | ForGG | Maru | ByuL | Golden | Solar | Soulkey | Scarlett!!!
Zealously
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
East Gorteau22261 Posts
August 23 2014 20:19 GMT
#653
On August 24 2014 05:18 GumBa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 24 2014 05:17 Zealously wrote:
On August 24 2014 05:17 GumBa wrote:
I love Koreans castin xD and how good is Trusts PvZ?


How good is Innovation?

Excellent


Good answer
AdministratorBreak the chains
KingofdaHipHop
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
United States25602 Posts
August 23 2014 20:19 GMT
#654
On August 24 2014 05:17 Zealously wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 24 2014 05:17 GumBa wrote:
I love Koreans castin xD and how good is Trusts PvZ?


How good is Innovation?

Great
Rain | herO | sOs | Dear | Neeb | ByuN | INnoVation | Dream | ForGG | Maru | ByuL | Golden | Solar | Soulkey | Scarlett!!!
ssxsilver
Profile Joined June 2007
United States4409 Posts
August 23 2014 20:19 GMT
#655
Let's go Violet (although I don't have much hope)!
Lorning *
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Belgica34432 Posts
August 23 2014 20:20 GMT
#656
So i heard that viOLet works out and has a pretty good body

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
Community News
TL+ Member
GumBa
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
United Kingdom31935 Posts
August 23 2014 20:21 GMT
#657
Now time for KESPAAAAAAAAAA
To all the haters: you deserve to witness many, many more Serral victories, worthy of the godlike player he is.
KingofdaHipHop
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
United States25602 Posts
August 23 2014 20:21 GMT
#658
lol San.
Rain | herO | sOs | Dear | Neeb | ByuN | INnoVation | Dream | ForGG | Maru | ByuL | Golden | Solar | Soulkey | Scarlett!!!
Zealously
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
East Gorteau22261 Posts
August 23 2014 20:22 GMT
#659
On August 24 2014 05:20 Lorning wrote:
So i heard that viOLet works out and has a pretty good body

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


That's... unexpected. I wish more progamers worked out (not because I want to look at their bodies), I think it's pretty good for counteracting injury.
AdministratorBreak the chains
SetGuitarsToKill
Profile Blog Joined December 2013
Canada28396 Posts
August 23 2014 20:23 GMT
#660
On August 24 2014 05:20 Lorning wrote:
So i heard that viOLet works out and has a pretty good body

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


Dang, he looks GOOD
Community News"As long as you have a warp prism you can't be bad at harassment" - Maru | @SetGuitars2Kill
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