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On August 03 2014 20:44 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2014 20:39 Faust852 wrote:On August 03 2014 20:37 Undead1993 wrote:On August 03 2014 20:35 Faust852 wrote:On August 03 2014 20:33 Undead1993 wrote:On August 03 2014 20:31 Heartland wrote:
An issue we have as viewers is that we keep repeating some statements such as "SH vs mech is boring" and just repeat them over and over, and that affects people who are viewing and makes them think it is boring because you look away from the finesse and gameplay and instead focus on "endless free units wow" and ignore things like positioning, macro, split map or whatever else can be interesting to focus on. swarm hosts vs mech is very interesting, as soon as the terran is sucessfully able to transition into mass air i don't see a single possibility for the zerg to win and that's where it becomes boring in my eyes. even soulkey vs reality was very very exciting to a certain point. sometimes games end in a very boring "nothing" though, a stalemate. but it very rarely happens in games with players of this caliber. But if there is no pissibility to win for the terran either that's ok ? wtf nice biase. this has nothing to with biase, i don't like zergs, of course i have exceptions in this matter. i didn't mean to say it's bad that the terran wins if he is able to successfully transition into air, same with toss. it's just boring because terran is so slow with his air units and he is hunting down bases and the zerg has 23824052580k bank and build 1000 hatches all over the place trying to survive. At high level mass raven doesn't win you the game, at all. It all plays between ravens and infestors. If one fungal the other, it's game. If the other manage to kill the infestors or the SHs, it's game too. I haven't seen ravens lose at high level, can you give me a vod? (not sarcastic btw, I'm curious when that happened)
MMA did raven and had quite a ball tbh, not really the count you want to reach but still a good amount.
For another game, check Maj0r vs Snute last week, on Deadwing for the NW²
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On August 03 2014 20:45 Faust852 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2014 20:44 duckk wrote:On August 03 2014 20:39 Faust852 wrote:On August 03 2014 20:37 Undead1993 wrote:On August 03 2014 20:35 Faust852 wrote:On August 03 2014 20:33 Undead1993 wrote:On August 03 2014 20:31 Heartland wrote:
An issue we have as viewers is that we keep repeating some statements such as "SH vs mech is boring" and just repeat them over and over, and that affects people who are viewing and makes them think it is boring because you look away from the finesse and gameplay and instead focus on "endless free units wow" and ignore things like positioning, macro, split map or whatever else can be interesting to focus on. swarm hosts vs mech is very interesting, as soon as the terran is sucessfully able to transition into mass air i don't see a single possibility for the zerg to win and that's where it becomes boring in my eyes. even soulkey vs reality was very very exciting to a certain point. sometimes games end in a very boring "nothing" though, a stalemate. but it very rarely happens in games with players of this caliber. But if there is no pissibility to win for the terran either that's ok ? wtf nice biase. this has nothing to with biase, i don't like zergs, of course i have exceptions in this matter. i didn't mean to say it's bad that the terran wins if he is able to successfully transition into air, same with toss. it's just boring because terran is so slow with his air units and he is hunting down bases and the zerg has 23824052580k bank and build 1000 hatches all over the place trying to survive. At high level mass raven doesn't win you the game, at all. It all plays between ravens and infestors. If one fungal the other, it's game. If the other manage to kill the infestors or the SHs, it's game too. The problem is if mech is played flawlessly the zerg physically cant win. Yamato/PDD/Seeker make it impossible for the zerg to ever be cost effective. For infestors to be in range to fungal, they are in range to be yamatoed. For vipers to abduct the best trade will be your viper for the unit abducted, and more zerg units usually die too. Granted to go hours without messing up is rarely going to happen, and we see top players get mass fungaled a lot. The best mech player in the world also get is skyball fungaled. cf Flash vs Life. It's impossible to play perfectly.
And also didn't lose it 
Getting 5-6 chain fungals of is pretty hard against tanks.
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On August 03 2014 20:46 Undead1993 wrote:
time to say byebye ben
Trust the potential.
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On August 03 2014 20:46 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2014 20:44 Faust852 wrote:On August 03 2014 20:43 Big J wrote:On August 03 2014 20:41 Faust852 wrote:On August 03 2014 20:39 Undead1993 wrote:On August 03 2014 20:39 Faust852 wrote:On August 03 2014 20:37 Undead1993 wrote:On August 03 2014 20:35 Faust852 wrote:On August 03 2014 20:33 Undead1993 wrote:On August 03 2014 20:31 Heartland wrote:
An issue we have as viewers is that we keep repeating some statements such as "SH vs mech is boring" and just repeat them over and over, and that affects people who are viewing and makes them think it is boring because you look away from the finesse and gameplay and instead focus on "endless free units wow" and ignore things like positioning, macro, split map or whatever else can be interesting to focus on. swarm hosts vs mech is very interesting, as soon as the terran is sucessfully able to transition into mass air i don't see a single possibility for the zerg to win and that's where it becomes boring in my eyes. even soulkey vs reality was very very exciting to a certain point. sometimes games end in a very boring "nothing" though, a stalemate. but it very rarely happens in games with players of this caliber. But if there is no pissibility to win for the terran either that's ok ? wtf nice biase. this has nothing to with biase, i don't like zergs, of course i have exceptions in this matter. i didn't mean to say it's bad that the terran wins if he is able to successfully transition into air, same with toss. it's just boring because terran is so slow with his air units and he is hunting down bases and the zerg has 23824052580k bank and build 1000 hatches all over the place trying to survive. At high level mass raven doesn't win you the game, at all. It all plays between ravens and infestors. If one fungal the other, it's game. If the other manage to kill the infestors or the SHs, it's game too. but bcs do win you the game most of the time, and they are slow as well BC are crap in late game, Scarlett proved that against MVP not that long ago. You are slow as fuck, if you decide to attack, you will play the tradebase but when you kill 2 bases you will already be without a single building. And then it will be a slow deatg animation agaainst mass spore and abduct. BC are cool on a timing but in late game ravens outclass them by far. I think 2-4 BCs are pretty decent. Not the mass BC crap, just the extra firepower and especially the freekills with Yamato, compared to the wacky HSMs from Ravens. They would be the first to be abduct in a situation like MMA vs Snute, they are big ass slow so they would just die straight up without even the chance to drop a HSM. You get a lot of Viper kills with Vikings, if the opponent tries to abduct them, since they are always behind your Viking/Raven ball. And if you get 2Viper kills for a BC, it was more than worth it.
I don't know, it really depend on the game, for instance, losing viper for ravens was absolutly not cost efficient for Snute because of is lack of eco. That depends on a lot of factor. There is not enough high level game anyway to know what's the best.
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On August 03 2014 20:47 TheDwf wrote:Trust the potential.
TSL.Roach doesn't care about potential it just destroys
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On August 03 2014 20:47 TheDwf wrote:Trust the potential.
I'd actually be really happy for Ben to get some major success finally. He deserves it after all.
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On August 03 2014 20:36 SatedSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2014 20:29 MtlGuitarist97 wrote:On August 03 2014 20:27 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On August 03 2014 20:22 SatedSC2 wrote:On August 03 2014 20:22 Faust852 wrote:
rofl so many 1 star wtf. This game deserves 5 stars. Only if that's 5 different people voting 1 star. That was an awful game to watch. I almost feel like we aren't even fans of the same game if you think so... This was edge-of-my-seat attention gripping from the very start. Tight early game hold, followed by MMA coming SOOOOOOO close to hitting a timing (like 15 seconds earlier first push and he'd have denied and either won outright or snowballed out of control). Then longggggg game of constant high level positioning and engagements, there were so many cool situations where different bases were running out requiring repositioning, which opens up new paths of attack for the terran. MMA almost stabilizing the bottom would have been game, snute managed to manage 2 separate fronts and deny reinforcements and just barely broke it... it was an insane game. This. There was constant action and tons of high level plays. What more could anyone want from a TvZ game? Much more entertaining to watch than bio/mine imo. This is what made marine/tank so much fun to watch - constant positioning and jockeying for a position on the map. It's not exciting to watch a game were one side risks absolutely nothing every time there is an engagement. Watching Tanks rack up hundreds of meaningless Locust kills doesn't really entertain me. I hate seeing the existence of a unit like the Swarm Host in a resource-focused game like SC2.
Well said. Damn I miss the old real TvZ.
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On August 03 2014 20:47 Faust852 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2014 20:46 Big J wrote:On August 03 2014 20:44 Faust852 wrote:On August 03 2014 20:43 Big J wrote:On August 03 2014 20:41 Faust852 wrote:On August 03 2014 20:39 Undead1993 wrote:On August 03 2014 20:39 Faust852 wrote:On August 03 2014 20:37 Undead1993 wrote:On August 03 2014 20:35 Faust852 wrote:On August 03 2014 20:33 Undead1993 wrote:
[quote]
swarm hosts vs mech is very interesting, as soon as the terran is sucessfully able to transition into mass air i don't see a single possibility for the zerg to win and that's where it becomes boring in my eyes.
even soulkey vs reality was very very exciting to a certain point. sometimes games end in a very boring "nothing" though, a stalemate. but it very rarely happens in games with players of this caliber. But if there is no pissibility to win for the terran either that's ok ? wtf nice biase. this has nothing to with biase, i don't like zergs, of course i have exceptions in this matter. i didn't mean to say it's bad that the terran wins if he is able to successfully transition into air, same with toss. it's just boring because terran is so slow with his air units and he is hunting down bases and the zerg has 23824052580k bank and build 1000 hatches all over the place trying to survive. At high level mass raven doesn't win you the game, at all. It all plays between ravens and infestors. If one fungal the other, it's game. If the other manage to kill the infestors or the SHs, it's game too. but bcs do win you the game most of the time, and they are slow as well BC are crap in late game, Scarlett proved that against MVP not that long ago. You are slow as fuck, if you decide to attack, you will play the tradebase but when you kill 2 bases you will already be without a single building. And then it will be a slow deatg animation agaainst mass spore and abduct. BC are cool on a timing but in late game ravens outclass them by far. I think 2-4 BCs are pretty decent. Not the mass BC crap, just the extra firepower and especially the freekills with Yamato, compared to the wacky HSMs from Ravens. They would be the first to be abduct in a situation like MMA vs Snute, they are big ass slow so they would just die straight up without even the chance to drop a HSM. You get a lot of Viper kills with Vikings, if the opponent tries to abduct them, since they are always behind your Viking/Raven ball. And if you get 2Viper kills for a BC, it was more than worth it. I don't know, it really depend on the game, for instance, losing viper for ravens was absolutly not cost efficient for Snute because of is lack of eco. That depends on a lot of factor. There is not enough high level game anyway to know what's the best.
yeah, fully agree. But I think the notion that BCs are never worth it is not quite right. While I do agree mass BCs is kind of crap in these games.
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I wonder what would happen if you just replaced seeker missile with good ol' irradiate, as a way for Terran to buy space and threaten dive ins and clumping. I dunno, just a quick thought.
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United Kingdom31935 Posts
What is the overall score between MMA and Snute btw? They seem to play alot of close series and its developing quite nicely imo
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
On August 03 2014 20:48 Undead1993 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2014 20:47 TheDwf wrote:On August 03 2014 20:46 Undead1993 wrote:
time to say byebye ben Trust the potential. TSL.Roach doesn't care about potential it just destroys
So imba, if daemuslim's potential can't beat hyun it's definitive proof that swarm hosts are OP.
Even in roach rushes.
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On August 03 2014 20:48 Everlong wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2014 20:47 TheDwf wrote:On August 03 2014 20:46 Undead1993 wrote:
time to say byebye ben Trust the potential. I'd actually be really happy for Ben to get some major success finally. He deserves it after all.
He is going to get steamrolled by muta/bling
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On August 03 2014 20:46 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2014 20:45 Faust852 wrote:On August 03 2014 20:44 duckk wrote:On August 03 2014 20:39 Faust852 wrote:On August 03 2014 20:37 Undead1993 wrote:On August 03 2014 20:35 Faust852 wrote:On August 03 2014 20:33 Undead1993 wrote:On August 03 2014 20:31 Heartland wrote:
An issue we have as viewers is that we keep repeating some statements such as "SH vs mech is boring" and just repeat them over and over, and that affects people who are viewing and makes them think it is boring because you look away from the finesse and gameplay and instead focus on "endless free units wow" and ignore things like positioning, macro, split map or whatever else can be interesting to focus on. swarm hosts vs mech is very interesting, as soon as the terran is sucessfully able to transition into mass air i don't see a single possibility for the zerg to win and that's where it becomes boring in my eyes. even soulkey vs reality was very very exciting to a certain point. sometimes games end in a very boring "nothing" though, a stalemate. but it very rarely happens in games with players of this caliber. But if there is no pissibility to win for the terran either that's ok ? wtf nice biase. this has nothing to with biase, i don't like zergs, of course i have exceptions in this matter. i didn't mean to say it's bad that the terran wins if he is able to successfully transition into air, same with toss. it's just boring because terran is so slow with his air units and he is hunting down bases and the zerg has 23824052580k bank and build 1000 hatches all over the place trying to survive. At high level mass raven doesn't win you the game, at all. It all plays between ravens and infestors. If one fungal the other, it's game. If the other manage to kill the infestors or the SHs, it's game too. The problem is if mech is played flawlessly the zerg physically cant win. Yamato/PDD/Seeker make it impossible for the zerg to ever be cost effective. For infestors to be in range to fungal, they are in range to be yamatoed. For vipers to abduct the best trade will be your viper for the unit abducted, and more zerg units usually die too. Granted to go hours without messing up is rarely going to happen, and we see top players get mass fungaled a lot. The best mech player in the world also get is skyball fungaled. cf Flash vs Life. It's impossible to play perfectly. And also didn't lose it Getting 5-6 chain fungals of is pretty hard against tanks.
It was a fungal away, And I think Life decided to fungal the skyball to close to the tanks line so he would lose infest everytime he tried to fungal, he had more oportunities. But again, it's really hard for both, that game went by a thin hair,Life lost his infests and lose the game when trying to fungal. If he had fungal, the game would have been his.
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2 rax was so obvious that he should have gone something like cc rax cc
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Australia18228 Posts
On August 03 2014 20:46 Faust852 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2014 20:44 Nebuchad wrote:On August 03 2014 20:39 Faust852 wrote:On August 03 2014 20:37 Undead1993 wrote:On August 03 2014 20:35 Faust852 wrote:On August 03 2014 20:33 Undead1993 wrote:On August 03 2014 20:31 Heartland wrote:
An issue we have as viewers is that we keep repeating some statements such as "SH vs mech is boring" and just repeat them over and over, and that affects people who are viewing and makes them think it is boring because you look away from the finesse and gameplay and instead focus on "endless free units wow" and ignore things like positioning, macro, split map or whatever else can be interesting to focus on. swarm hosts vs mech is very interesting, as soon as the terran is sucessfully able to transition into mass air i don't see a single possibility for the zerg to win and that's where it becomes boring in my eyes. even soulkey vs reality was very very exciting to a certain point. sometimes games end in a very boring "nothing" though, a stalemate. but it very rarely happens in games with players of this caliber. But if there is no pissibility to win for the terran either that's ok ? wtf nice biase. this has nothing to with biase, i don't like zergs, of course i have exceptions in this matter. i didn't mean to say it's bad that the terran wins if he is able to successfully transition into air, same with toss. it's just boring because terran is so slow with his air units and he is hunting down bases and the zerg has 23824052580k bank and build 1000 hatches all over the place trying to survive. At high level mass raven doesn't win you the game, at all. It all plays between ravens and infestors. If one fungal the other, it's game. If the other manage to kill the infestors or the SHs, it's game too. I haven't seen ravens lose at high level, can you give me a vod? (not sarcastic btw, I'm curious when that happened) MMA did raven and had quite a ball tbh, not really the count you want to reach but still a good amount. For another game, check Maj0r vs Snute last week, on Deadwing for the NW²
MMA didn't do the Raven transition like most do. I think they sit back on 160 and slowly add Ravens/BC, but MMA kept trying to attack and trading Mech units for Locusts
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United Kingdom31935 Posts
On August 03 2014 20:49 Fusilero wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2014 20:48 Undead1993 wrote:On August 03 2014 20:47 TheDwf wrote:On August 03 2014 20:46 Undead1993 wrote:
time to say byebye ben Trust the potential. TSL.Roach doesn't care about potential it just destroys So imba, if daemuslim's potential can't beat hyun it's definitive proof that swarm hosts are OP. Even in roach rushes.
This man speaks the truth
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On August 03 2014 20:47 TheDwf wrote:Trust the potential.
I'll trust Big Ben's potence any day.
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EPT
