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On June 10 2014 02:41 Yello wrote:
this is not the Snute I am used to. He looks way worse then just a week ago, really questionable decision making and micro
Maybe he's tired after HomeStory Cup ?
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On June 10 2014 02:40 vjcamarena wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2014 02:38 vjcamarena wrote:On June 10 2014 02:36 vjcamarena wrote:On June 10 2014 02:34 vjcamarena wrote:On June 10 2014 02:32 vjcamarena wrote:On June 10 2014 02:30 vjcamarena wrote:On June 10 2014 02:28 vjcamarena wrote:On June 10 2014 02:26 vjcamarena wrote:On June 10 2014 02:25 vjcamarena wrote:On June 10 2014 02:23 vjcamarena wrote:
[quote]
8:00 Baneling Nest for snute. Snute is up to 43 workers while, ForGG has 35.
Double factory into blue flame hellions for ForGG.
10:00 Armory going down for ForGG. Looks to put that last hellbat patch to good use!
ForGG denies some creep and pushes with about 10 hellions and another 25 supply of bio.Snute trying to defend with few banelings and the spines, but ForGG takes the third down.
12:30 forGG moves into the natural, he spreads against banelings, kills the natural and just wins. GG! Casters remark that ForGG has studied Snute's style quite well. GAME 2 Snute vs ForGG - Alterzim Stronghold! Snute spawns at the bot left, ForGG at the top right! Cross positions don't seem to be favoured for terran. We'll see if ForGG can make up for it. 2:30 Snute-14, ForGG-15 Both of them go for a expo first. Greed is the name of the game. 4:45 Not much going on yet. Speed for Snute, ForGG sees the gas but loses the Scout SCV. He goes for a reactor in the rax and a factory. Looks like hellions again. ForGG going for a proxy factory! The SCV passes by an overlord and Snute finds it quickly with a ling. No shenanigans. 7:30 ForGG goes for a third CC, also getting stim. He runs by with two hellions, killing maybe two drones and getting a great scout. Snute is going into Baneling Nest and Lair. 9:15 Snute 80 ForGG 53 Snute sitting pretty on the three expos, just now getting the evo chambers. ForGG's +1 +1 is halfway done tho. 3 Rax factory starport for ForGG. ForGG going for the third now. Snute does have about 20 drones on ForGG tho. 11:00 Snute 123 ForGG 105 ForGG going for a double drop into Snute's 4th. Banelings push that back tho. Another drop going to the right side. ForGG's double drop deals well with a few Baneling/Ling/Muta units, but the other drop doesn't do anything. ForGG agressive all over. No crazy damage yet, tho he's pushing creep back. 14:00 Snute 178 ForGG 170 ForGG has many marines and mines. Snute has about 80 drones, 65 SCVs. Big push by ForGG near to the fourth. He loses lots of marines to banelings, which then die to big widow mine hits. Interestingly ForGG didn't even start +2+2 while Snute is going fot it.
17:00 Snute 200 ForGG 160
Snute goes after ForGG hard, out of creep, and the engagement isn't great for him, but he can trade with his better economy. Snute has loads of mutas, which are harassing the natural and the fourth for ForGG. Gets some workers, but barely doesn't get the CC in the natural. Snute looks great.
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Z playing ZvT like T used to play TvZ. Like a conga line.
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On June 10 2014 02:38 Yello wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2014 02:35 SpawnMoarOverlords wrote:On June 10 2014 02:33 Squat wrote:On June 10 2014 02:28 Yorkie wrote:On June 10 2014 02:25 Squat wrote:
This timing is so strong, Taeja pretty beat Scarlett using pretty much strategy alone. Zergs will have to adapt their openings a bit I think. It is quite strong. For the moment I think a roach warren is almost essential. It's been held off with ease by every zerg that I've seen go roaches. I've also seen this build by terran many times on Overgrowth in particular, perhaps because they don't want to deal with the exposed third or they want to exploit the (somewhat) narrow areas near the zerg's third and natural For a long time in WoL, opening with 5-7 roaches to ward off BF hellions was very common. Maybe it will make a comeback. I'm not certain it was the best way to buff terran tbh, the issue is how to deal with 100 banes of creep in the late game, not the early/mid where terran already did quite well. Still, I think the timing is narrow enough zergs can work this out. I thought the idea is that by buffing terran in the early/mid game Zergs can't have 100 banes in the late game because they can't be so greedy ? the problem is, it feels a little bit like broodlord-infestor, you set a timer on the terran and if he can't kill or cripple the zerg before he gets good creepspread and the critical mass of units he's dead. For now the hellbat-patch works well, we see lots of new aggressive openings by terrans which is refreshing and entertaining but I fear this won't be cool and fun for long
Its no quite as bad as broodlord-infestor, in that there are more unexplored options that could possibly prove to be effective against such high baneling count, while against BL-I there was nothing that was remotely effective. The hellbat patch gives time for terran to figure out the late game. If they don't or can't by the end of that interval, Blizzard may need to patch again, but I don't mind trying to let the pros innovate against it first.
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Wow, Snute is really on top of his macro
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On June 10 2014 02:41 Yello wrote:
this is not the Snute I am used to. He looks way worse then just a week ago, really questionable decision making and micro
And that's why he's 80 supply ahead.
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On June 10 2014 02:38 Yello wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2014 02:35 SpawnMoarOverlords wrote:On June 10 2014 02:33 Squat wrote:On June 10 2014 02:28 Yorkie wrote:On June 10 2014 02:25 Squat wrote:
This timing is so strong, Taeja pretty beat Scarlett using pretty much strategy alone. Zergs will have to adapt their openings a bit I think. It is quite strong. For the moment I think a roach warren is almost essential. It's been held off with ease by every zerg that I've seen go roaches. I've also seen this build by terran many times on Overgrowth in particular, perhaps because they don't want to deal with the exposed third or they want to exploit the (somewhat) narrow areas near the zerg's third and natural For a long time in WoL, opening with 5-7 roaches to ward off BF hellions was very common. Maybe it will make a comeback. I'm not certain it was the best way to buff terran tbh, the issue is how to deal with 100 banes of creep in the late game, not the early/mid where terran already did quite well. Still, I think the timing is narrow enough zergs can work this out. I thought the idea is that by buffing terran in the early/mid game Zergs can't have 100 banes in the late game because they can't be so greedy ? the problem is, it feels a little bit like broodlord-infestor, you set a timer on the terran and if he can't kill or cripple the zerg before he gets good creepspread and the critical mass of units he's dead. For now the hellbat-patch works well, we see lots of new aggressive openings by terrans which is refreshing and entertaining but I fear this won't be cool and fun for long
This is pretty much correct, it might turn into terran trying to hit a very deadly timing to kill or completely cripple the zerg or face an incredibly uphill battle in the late game. I would have much preferred something done for tanks or giving mines back some of their oomph.
Also this map is just lulz in ZvT.
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Canada8157 Posts
jesus this mass baneling strat is so hard to deal with
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That instant remax is a killer
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Yup, looks like every ZvT these days once they get enough banelings
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On June 10 2014 02:42 Faust852 wrote:
this map is really retarded still.
Yeah its way to big for Terran
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"He (Snute) makes more Banelings than any other Zerg" Demuslim, I'd like to introduce you to one Bang Tae Soo.
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On June 10 2014 02:42 vjcamarena wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2014 02:40 vjcamarena wrote:On June 10 2014 02:38 vjcamarena wrote:On June 10 2014 02:36 vjcamarena wrote:On June 10 2014 02:34 vjcamarena wrote:On June 10 2014 02:32 vjcamarena wrote:On June 10 2014 02:30 vjcamarena wrote:On June 10 2014 02:28 vjcamarena wrote:On June 10 2014 02:26 vjcamarena wrote:On June 10 2014 02:25 vjcamarena wrote:
[quote]
12:30 forGG moves into the natural, he spreads against banelings, kills the natural and just wins. GG! Casters remark that ForGG has studied Snute's style quite well. GAME 2 Snute vs ForGG - Alterzim Stronghold! Snute spawns at the bot left, ForGG at the top right! Cross positions don't seem to be favoured for terran. We'll see if ForGG can make up for it. 2:30 Snute-14, ForGG-15 Both of them go for a expo first. Greed is the name of the game. 4:45 Not much going on yet. Speed for Snute, ForGG sees the gas but loses the Scout SCV. He goes for a reactor in the rax and a factory. Looks like hellions again. ForGG going for a proxy factory! The SCV passes by an overlord and Snute finds it quickly with a ling. No shenanigans. 7:30 ForGG goes for a third CC, also getting stim. He runs by with two hellions, killing maybe two drones and getting a great scout. Snute is going into Baneling Nest and Lair. 9:15 Snute 80 ForGG 53 Snute sitting pretty on the three expos, just now getting the evo chambers. ForGG's +1 +1 is halfway done tho. 3 Rax factory starport for ForGG. ForGG going for the third now. Snute does have about 20 drones on ForGG tho. 11:00 Snute 123 ForGG 105 ForGG going for a double drop into Snute's 4th. Banelings push that back tho. Another drop going to the right side. ForGG's double drop deals well with a few Baneling/Ling/Muta units, but the other drop doesn't do anything. ForGG agressive all over. No crazy damage yet, tho he's pushing creep back. 14:00 Snute 178 ForGG 170 ForGG has many marines and mines. Snute has about 80 drones, 65 SCVs. Big push by ForGG near to the fourth. He loses lots of marines to banelings, which then die to big widow mine hits. Interestingly ForGG didn't even start +2+2 while Snute is going fot it. 17:00 Snute 200 ForGG 160 Snute goes after ForGG hard, out of creep, and the engagement isn't great for him, but he can trade with his better economy. Snute has loads of mutas, which are harassing the natural and the fourth for ForGG. Gets some workers, but barely doesn't get the CC in the natural. Snute looks great.
20:00 Snute 200 forGG 118
snute takes a good engagement with mutas and ling bane. ForGG just can't keep up with his production at this point, but still in there, since fights are slightly more favorable to him.
ForGG fortifying the 5th with a planetary, as Twitch decides to die. DAMMIT!
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United States23455 Posts
On June 10 2014 02:43 Jer99 wrote:
jesus this mass baneling strat is so hard to deal with
Seems the aftermath of fights like that is 200/200 for Zerg 120/200 for Terran.
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On June 10 2014 02:42 Boucot wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2014 02:41 Yello wrote:
this is not the Snute I am used to. He looks way worse then just a week ago, really questionable decision making and micro Maybe he's tired after HomeStory Cup ?
hm probably yes. He's not playing 100% right now.
On June 10 2014 02:42 Squat wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2014 02:38 Yello wrote:On June 10 2014 02:35 SpawnMoarOverlords wrote:On June 10 2014 02:33 Squat wrote:On June 10 2014 02:28 Yorkie wrote:On June 10 2014 02:25 Squat wrote:
This timing is so strong, Taeja pretty beat Scarlett using pretty much strategy alone. Zergs will have to adapt their openings a bit I think. It is quite strong. For the moment I think a roach warren is almost essential. It's been held off with ease by every zerg that I've seen go roaches. I've also seen this build by terran many times on Overgrowth in particular, perhaps because they don't want to deal with the exposed third or they want to exploit the (somewhat) narrow areas near the zerg's third and natural For a long time in WoL, opening with 5-7 roaches to ward off BF hellions was very common. Maybe it will make a comeback. I'm not certain it was the best way to buff terran tbh, the issue is how to deal with 100 banes of creep in the late game, not the early/mid where terran already did quite well. Still, I think the timing is narrow enough zergs can work this out. I thought the idea is that by buffing terran in the early/mid game Zergs can't have 100 banes in the late game because they can't be so greedy ? the problem is, it feels a little bit like broodlord-infestor, you set a timer on the terran and if he can't kill or cripple the zerg before he gets good creepspread and the critical mass of units he's dead. For now the hellbat-patch works well, we see lots of new aggressive openings by terrans which is refreshing and entertaining but I fear this won't be cool and fun for long This is pretty much correct, it might turn into terran trying to hit a very deadly timing to kill or completely cripple the zerg or face an incredibly uphill battle in the late game. I would have much preferred something done for tanks or giving mines back some of their oomph. Also this map is just lulz in ZvT.
yeah, I think better maps could also help a lot with the momentum of the game. Current maps are terrible
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Whoa. Snute ran like 30 banelings into Thors
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
ForGG needs 4 more engagements like that.
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On June 10 2014 02:41 Paljas wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2014 02:38 Yello wrote:On June 10 2014 02:35 SpawnMoarOverlords wrote:On June 10 2014 02:33 Squat wrote:On June 10 2014 02:28 Yorkie wrote:On June 10 2014 02:25 Squat wrote:
This timing is so strong, Taeja pretty beat Scarlett using pretty much strategy alone. Zergs will have to adapt their openings a bit I think. It is quite strong. For the moment I think a roach warren is almost essential. It's been held off with ease by every zerg that I've seen go roaches. I've also seen this build by terran many times on Overgrowth in particular, perhaps because they don't want to deal with the exposed third or they want to exploit the (somewhat) narrow areas near the zerg's third and natural For a long time in WoL, opening with 5-7 roaches to ward off BF hellions was very common. Maybe it will make a comeback. I'm not certain it was the best way to buff terran tbh, the issue is how to deal with 100 banes of creep in the late game, not the early/mid where terran already did quite well. Still, I think the timing is narrow enough zergs can work this out. I thought the idea is that by buffing terran in the early/mid game Zergs can't have 100 banes in the late game because they can't be so greedy ? the problem is, it feels a little bit like broodlord-infestor, you set a timer on the terran and if he can't kill or cripple the zerg before he gets good creepspread and the critical mass of units he's dead. For now the hellbat-patch works well, we see lots of new aggressive openings by terrans which is refreshing and entertaining but I fear this won't be cool and fun for long well, the current zerg late game is not nearly as strong as broodlord-infestor imo. terran doesnt really need to kill or to cripple the zerg, he just cant let the creep and eco get out of control (which is difficult, yes)
If there was a way to make terran 10% better vs zerg through the whole game rather than 30% better during a timing window that would be far better imo.
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EPT
