|
On June 06 2014 19:48 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2014 19:44 GumBa wrote:On June 06 2014 19:43 sharkie wrote:On June 06 2014 19:43 GumBa wrote:On June 06 2014 19:41 sharkie wrote: Yeah like everyone said don't go lategame vs protoss Even a ridicilous 5% win chance all in is better than to play vs storm and colossus x.x So we can agree no Terran is good lategame TvP I can agree with you there.  Ok then if you admit Inno is top 3-4 TvP Maru and Bbyong are clear top2 MMA, Flash and Innovation share 3,4,5 in between Maybe Polt as well MMA higher than Polt in TvP? Please...
|
United Kingdom31935 Posts
On June 06 2014 19:48 Lorning wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2014 19:47 GumBa wrote:Pls dont break my heart twice in one day INno  I think my passion will die He just went on a 14 game win streak in ATC. He has to lose a bit, else terran gets nerfed I need him in ro8 tough D:
|
On June 06 2014 19:51 Wintex wrote:What about for example introducing a thor change, which makes the spells it has cooldown based, and giving them an upgrade at like Tier 4/5 which requires the fusion core, but makes them deal extra shield damage. It's a bigger unit, it doesn't fly and it has a harder time dying. Show nested quote +On June 06 2014 19:50 gTank wrote:On June 06 2014 19:48 herMan wrote:On June 06 2014 19:43 Heartland wrote: I think we need to pay more attention to how late-game P army management is a lot about retreating and storm flanking. It's hard to fight the Terran army just in a straight up fight. It has to be zoned out, flanked and fought on favorable ground. You can force the issue by shredding mineral lines to dust and waiting for the terran come to you while you set the terms of the engagement. Protoss can just sit on his bank because the there is no terran late game army composition that will crush the protoss. Remove the Energy on Battlecruisers and make it a skill like overcharge on void rays maybe? Problem is tempests. rather thor be buffed.
Hmm yeah. What about that hyperjump ability they wanted to give battlecruisers?
|
This match decides who will join the After School banner!
|
your Country52797 Posts
On June 06 2014 19:48 The_Templar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2014 19:45 The_Templar wrote: Soulkey spawns in the top right Zest spawns in the bottom left 2:00 Hatchery first vs Nexus first. Third hatchery before spawning pool for Soulkey. Zest getting a gateway followed by two assimilators. 3:00 Cybernetics core. Faking a cannon rush for Zest. Spawning pool finishes. 4:00 Soulkey getting some queens. Soulkey getting zergling speed. Stargate for Zest. Roach warren for Zest. 5:00 Mothership core finishes. Zest building two more gateways. 6:00 Phoenix for Zest. Soulkey getting some roaches. Robotics facility for Zest.
7:00 Soulkey 62 vs Zest 56 Phoenixes moving out for the first time. Roaches attack and mostly die to a mothership cannon and some zealots, killing a sentry. Spore crawlers for Soulkey.
8:00 Soulkey 67 vs Zest 63 +1 ground weapons for Zest. Zest cutting phoenix production at 6, getting a robotics bay.
9:00 Soulkey 79 vs Zest 71 Soulkey fails to kill a probe before Zest takes a third base. Hydralisk den and evolution chamber for Soulkey. Zerglings and 2 roaches go for the zealots at the third base.
10:00 Soulkey 92 vs Zest 76 Void ray and colossus as well as extended thermal lance. Zest lifts and kills a hydralisk. Hydralisk range on the way. Soulkey takes a fourth base.
|
On June 06 2014 19:50 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2014 19:48 GumBa wrote:On June 06 2014 19:47 Wintex wrote:On June 06 2014 19:43 Heartland wrote: I think we need to pay more attention to how late-game P army management is a lot about retreating and storm flanking. It's hard to fight the Terran army just in a straight up fight. It has to be zoned out, flanked and fought on favorable ground. Exactly. A lot of terrans just accept the terms of the protoss. In a battle you should seek the favorable grounds yourself. I wish players would build more turrets to counteract the possible drops, while also having like 2-3 marines patrolling for pylons. A lot of the problems in TvP stem from the difficulty in obtaining vision at times where it's necessary. Making it the focus point more at the battle instead of thinking of possible shit is a way to make the engagements easier too. Too bad that's reallllllyyy difficult. Wish mech worked It does at all levels on the ladder below high GM from what I've seen on streams. It's fucking hard as hell to play though, which is why most Terrans don't bother with it. Why bother playing an overall inferior style when it isn't even easier to play?
the reason is not that it is hard, is simply uber boring if you need to turtle all game and NEVER have the ability to push since you will get absolutely murdered open field.
if mech was somehow offensive viable more people would play it i think
|
On June 06 2014 19:49 GumBa wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2014 19:48 sharkie wrote:On June 06 2014 19:44 GumBa wrote:On June 06 2014 19:43 sharkie wrote:On June 06 2014 19:43 GumBa wrote:On June 06 2014 19:41 sharkie wrote: Yeah like everyone said don't go lategame vs protoss Even a ridicilous 5% win chance all in is better than to play vs storm and colossus x.x So we can agree no Terran is good lategame TvP I can agree with you there.  Ok then if you admit Inno is top 3-4 TvP Maru and Bbyong are clear top2 MMA, Flash and Innovation share 3,4,5 in between Maybe Polt as well lol INnos TvP is miles better than MMAs top 5 is Maru Polt INno Bbyong Flash (Maybe) After Maru the positions fluctuate but in no way MMA and I say that as an MMA fan
How is Inno better in TvP than Bbyong heh
|
United Kingdom31935 Posts
Just give us BW tanks and Toss wont get to tempests
|
On June 06 2014 19:52 gTank wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2014 19:51 Wintex wrote:What about for example introducing a thor change, which makes the spells it has cooldown based, and giving them an upgrade at like Tier 4/5 which requires the fusion core, but makes them deal extra shield damage. It's a bigger unit, it doesn't fly and it has a harder time dying. On June 06 2014 19:50 gTank wrote:On June 06 2014 19:48 herMan wrote:On June 06 2014 19:43 Heartland wrote: I think we need to pay more attention to how late-game P army management is a lot about retreating and storm flanking. It's hard to fight the Terran army just in a straight up fight. It has to be zoned out, flanked and fought on favorable ground. You can force the issue by shredding mineral lines to dust and waiting for the terran come to you while you set the terms of the engagement. Protoss can just sit on his bank because the there is no terran late game army composition that will crush the protoss. Remove the Energy on Battlecruisers and make it a skill like overcharge on void rays maybe? Problem is tempests. rather thor be buffed. Hmm yeah. What about that hyperjump ability they wanted to give battlecruisers?
That's not the problem. The Battlecruiser's mobility isn't why it's useless. It's useless because almost everything Protoss has is good against it.
And then to top it off they have a unit that laughably hard counters it.
|
On June 06 2014 19:44 Kitaen wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2014 19:42 aZealot wrote:On June 06 2014 19:39 marvellosity wrote:On June 06 2014 19:38 aZealot wrote:On June 06 2014 19:34 Ramiz1989 wrote:On June 06 2014 19:33 zimms wrote:On June 06 2014 19:18 aZealot wrote:On June 06 2014 19:17 Crot4le wrote: Come on INnoVation please win the group. I want a TvT GSL final. Please, no. The boredom. Yeah, enough of this TvT! I mean we just recently had a Code S TvT about 250 days ago. He is talking about mirror matches in general. I agree with him, every non-mirror MU is better than mirror. True, but I don't particularly like TvT either. It might be my most disliked mirror MU. if you prefer ZvZ to TvT, you are quite literally insane. It's touch and go between the two for me, to be honest. In either MU though I absolutely love cheesy and aggressive play. I don't like Roach wars or Marine/Tank macro games. I find both quite boring. lol you'r crazy, tank marine mirros produces the best games out of EVERYTHING sc2 can offer, i might be biased though, heh
Maybe just a little, mate. 
I try marine/tank and I find it boring. Hence, why I usually try to do something like double reactor reapers or 1/1/1 or a proxy thor drop to marine/thor rush. I especially enjoy this latter strategy - dropping a thor and then boosting out is hilarious. That said, I've been thinking I just need to learn how to play marine/tank out rather than letting frustration get the better of me.
|
United Kingdom31935 Posts
On June 06 2014 19:53 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2014 19:49 GumBa wrote:On June 06 2014 19:48 sharkie wrote:On June 06 2014 19:44 GumBa wrote:On June 06 2014 19:43 sharkie wrote:On June 06 2014 19:43 GumBa wrote:On June 06 2014 19:41 sharkie wrote: Yeah like everyone said don't go lategame vs protoss Even a ridicilous 5% win chance all in is better than to play vs storm and colossus x.x So we can agree no Terran is good lategame TvP I can agree with you there.  Ok then if you admit Inno is top 3-4 TvP Maru and Bbyong are clear top2 MMA, Flash and Innovation share 3,4,5 in between Maybe Polt as well lol INnos TvP is miles better than MMAs top 5 is Maru Polt INno Bbyong Flash (Maybe) After Maru the positions fluctuate but in no way MMA and I say that as an MMA fan How is Inno better in TvP than Bbyong heh Argue why not you put MMA above Polt in TvP I am srsly doubting your credentials. And I said after Maru it fluctuates alot it depends on the given day
|
On June 06 2014 19:52 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2014 19:48 sharkie wrote:On June 06 2014 19:44 GumBa wrote:On June 06 2014 19:43 sharkie wrote:On June 06 2014 19:43 GumBa wrote:On June 06 2014 19:41 sharkie wrote: Yeah like everyone said don't go lategame vs protoss Even a ridicilous 5% win chance all in is better than to play vs storm and colossus x.x So we can agree no Terran is good lategame TvP I can agree with you there.  Ok then if you admit Inno is top 3-4 TvP Maru and Bbyong are clear top2 MMA, Flash and Innovation share 3,4,5 in between Maybe Polt as well MMA higher than Polt in TvP? Please...
I had very high regard for Polt's TvP and then he lost to both heros (who I both consider not being the best PvTers)
|
On June 06 2014 19:54 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2014 19:52 TheDwf wrote:On June 06 2014 19:48 sharkie wrote:On June 06 2014 19:44 GumBa wrote:On June 06 2014 19:43 sharkie wrote:On June 06 2014 19:43 GumBa wrote:On June 06 2014 19:41 sharkie wrote: Yeah like everyone said don't go lategame vs protoss Even a ridicilous 5% win chance all in is better than to play vs storm and colossus x.x So we can agree no Terran is good lategame TvP I can agree with you there.  Ok then if you admit Inno is top 3-4 TvP Maru and Bbyong are clear top2 MMA, Flash and Innovation share 3,4,5 in between Maybe Polt as well MMA higher than Polt in TvP? Please... I had very high regard for Polt's TvP and then he lost to both heros (who I both consider not being the best PvTers) herO(join) is weird tho. He just wins matches he shouldn't win.
|
United Kingdom31935 Posts
On June 06 2014 19:54 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2014 19:52 TheDwf wrote:On June 06 2014 19:48 sharkie wrote:On June 06 2014 19:44 GumBa wrote:On June 06 2014 19:43 sharkie wrote:On June 06 2014 19:43 GumBa wrote:On June 06 2014 19:41 sharkie wrote: Yeah like everyone said don't go lategame vs protoss Even a ridicilous 5% win chance all in is better than to play vs storm and colossus x.x So we can agree no Terran is good lategame TvP I can agree with you there.  Ok then if you admit Inno is top 3-4 TvP Maru and Bbyong are clear top2 MMA, Flash and Innovation share 3,4,5 in between Maybe Polt as well MMA higher than Polt in TvP? Please... I had very high regard for Polt's TvP and then he lost to both heros (who I both consider not being the best PvTers) INno recently beat HerO. Like I dont get your arguements nobody wins 100% of the time
|
On June 06 2014 19:53 GumBa wrote:Just give us BW tanks and Toss wont get to tempests 
tanks are still fucking weak offensive. they might shorten to siegeup time or smth like that
|
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
This is some lousy creep spread for roach hydra.
|
On June 06 2014 19:45 OrjaN wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2014 19:40 Parcelleus wrote:On June 06 2014 19:33 Wintex wrote:On June 06 2014 19:32 Vindicare605 wrote:On June 06 2014 19:30 Dreamer.T wrote: That's every terran's worse nightmare. It will forever annoy the crap out of me when I land EMPs all over the entire Protoss army, but still lose everything because one or two storms kills my entire ground force. EMP and Storm are just not equally dangerous. Storm is definitely a lot more decisive in battles. Only because EMP is the countermeasure and Storm is the... measure.  Engaging the protoss army will forever be a hard task. How to split to maximize the dps while surviving is a task few have mastered. Then don't A-move. EMP has more range than storm. 1 more range, yes. Hardly worth mentioning as EMP still is a missile vs the instant cast of storm.
Toss have also learned not to foolishly leave their templars in the front. They are usually behind the collosi and army or spread out, and it takes more than 1 emp to clear a clump of templars of their mana (which is why sometimes terrans prefer sniping them)
|
your Country52797 Posts
On June 06 2014 19:52 The_Templar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2014 19:48 The_Templar wrote:On June 06 2014 19:45 The_Templar wrote: Soulkey spawns in the top right Zest spawns in the bottom left 2:00 Hatchery first vs Nexus first. Third hatchery before spawning pool for Soulkey. Zest getting a gateway followed by two assimilators. 3:00 Cybernetics core. Faking a cannon rush for Zest. Spawning pool finishes. 4:00 Soulkey getting some queens. Soulkey getting zergling speed. Stargate for Zest. Roach warren for Zest. 5:00 Mothership core finishes. Zest building two more gateways. 6:00 Phoenix for Zest. Soulkey getting some roaches. Robotics facility for Zest. 7:00 Soulkey 62 vs Zest 56 Phoenixes moving out for the first time. Roaches attack and mostly die to a mothership cannon and some zealots, killing a sentry. Spore crawlers for Soulkey. 8:00 Soulkey 67 vs Zest 63 +1 ground weapons for Zest. Zest cutting phoenix production at 6, getting a robotics bay. 9:00 Soulkey 79 vs Zest 71 Soulkey fails to kill a probe before Zest takes a third base. Hydralisk den and evolution chamber for Soulkey. Zerglings and 2 roaches go for the zealots at the third base. 10:00 Soulkey 92 vs Zest 76 Void ray and colossus as well as extended thermal lance. Zest lifts and kills a hydralisk. Hydralisk range on the way. Soulkey takes a fourth base. 12:00 Soulkey 104 vs Zest 104 More drones being lifted by the 6 phoenixes, none of which have died. Roach and hydralisk speed being researched. Phoenixes whittle the drones down to 60, but 2 die to hydralisks. Infestation pit on the way for Soulkey.
13:00 Soulkey 142 vs Zest 132 +2 ranged attack for Soulkey. Soulkey attacking the third and the natural but there are enough colossi to go around. Soulkey getting hive. Zest researching blink and +2 ground attack. 4 more gateways for Zest.
15:00 Soulkey 189 vs Zest 162 Soulkey retreats to his fourth. Soulkey getting 2 vipers. Hydralisks and roaches moving towards Zest's third again as Zest moves towards the natural of Soulkey. Zest pulls probes.
|
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On June 06 2014 19:55 GumBa wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2014 19:54 sharkie wrote:On June 06 2014 19:52 TheDwf wrote:On June 06 2014 19:48 sharkie wrote:On June 06 2014 19:44 GumBa wrote:On June 06 2014 19:43 sharkie wrote:On June 06 2014 19:43 GumBa wrote:On June 06 2014 19:41 sharkie wrote: Yeah like everyone said don't go lategame vs protoss Even a ridicilous 5% win chance all in is better than to play vs storm and colossus x.x So we can agree no Terran is good lategame TvP I can agree with you there.  Ok then if you admit Inno is top 3-4 TvP Maru and Bbyong are clear top2 MMA, Flash and Innovation share 3,4,5 in between Maybe Polt as well MMA higher than Polt in TvP? Please... I had very high regard for Polt's TvP and then he lost to both heros (who I both consider not being the best PvTers) INno recently beat HerO. Like I dont get your arguements nobody wins 100% of the time
You mean lost to herO?
|
On June 06 2014 19:52 Kitaen wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2014 19:50 Vindicare605 wrote:On June 06 2014 19:48 GumBa wrote:On June 06 2014 19:47 Wintex wrote:On June 06 2014 19:43 Heartland wrote: I think we need to pay more attention to how late-game P army management is a lot about retreating and storm flanking. It's hard to fight the Terran army just in a straight up fight. It has to be zoned out, flanked and fought on favorable ground. Exactly. A lot of terrans just accept the terms of the protoss. In a battle you should seek the favorable grounds yourself. I wish players would build more turrets to counteract the possible drops, while also having like 2-3 marines patrolling for pylons. A lot of the problems in TvP stem from the difficulty in obtaining vision at times where it's necessary. Making it the focus point more at the battle instead of thinking of possible shit is a way to make the engagements easier too. Too bad that's reallllllyyy difficult. Wish mech worked It does at all levels on the ladder below high GM from what I've seen on streams. It's fucking hard as hell to play though, which is why most Terrans don't bother with it. Why bother playing an overall inferior style when it isn't even easier to play? the reason is not that it is hard, is simply uber boring if you need to turtle all game and NEVER have the ability to push since you will get absolutely murdered open field. if mech was somehow offensive viable more people would play it i think
I don't think boredom has that much to do with it.
The mass raven style that was real popular on the ladder against Zerg was the most mind numbingly boring style I've ever seen, but plenty of Terrans did it because it had a high win rate.
|
|
|
|