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[Code S] Ro16 Group D Season 2 2014 - Page 27

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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TheDwf
Profile Joined November 2011
France19747 Posts
June 06 2014 10:52 GMT
#521
On June 06 2014 19:48 sharkie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 06 2014 19:44 GumBa wrote:
On June 06 2014 19:43 sharkie wrote:
On June 06 2014 19:43 GumBa wrote:
On June 06 2014 19:41 sharkie wrote:
Yeah like everyone said don't go lategame vs protoss
Even a ridicilous 5% win chance all in is better than to play vs storm and colossus x.x

So we can agree no Terran is good lategame TvP


I can agree with you there.

Ok then if you admit Inno is top 3-4 TvP


Maru and Bbyong are clear top2
MMA, Flash and Innovation share 3,4,5 in between
Maybe Polt as well

MMA higher than Polt in TvP? Please...
GumBa
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
United Kingdom31935 Posts
June 06 2014 10:52 GMT
#522
On June 06 2014 19:48 Lorning wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 06 2014 19:47 GumBa wrote:
Pls dont break my heart twice in one day INno I think my passion will die

He just went on a 14 game win streak in ATC. He has to lose a bit, else terran gets nerfed

I need him in ro8 tough D:
To all the haters: you deserve to witness many, many more Serral victories, worthy of the godlike player he is.
gTank
Profile Joined January 2011
Austria2557 Posts
June 06 2014 10:52 GMT
#523
On June 06 2014 19:51 Wintex wrote:
What about for example introducing a thor change, which makes the spells it has cooldown based, and giving them an upgrade at like Tier 4/5 which requires the fusion core, but makes them deal extra shield damage. It's a bigger unit, it doesn't fly and it has a harder time dying.
Show nested quote +
On June 06 2014 19:50 gTank wrote:
On June 06 2014 19:48 herMan wrote:
On June 06 2014 19:43 Heartland wrote:
I think we need to pay more attention to how late-game P army management is a lot about retreating and storm flanking. It's hard to fight the Terran army just in a straight up fight. It has to be zoned out, flanked and fought on favorable ground.


You can force the issue by shredding mineral lines to dust and waiting for the terran come to you while you set the terms of the engagement. Protoss can just sit on his bank because the there is no terran late game army composition that will crush the protoss.


Remove the Energy on Battlecruisers and make it a skill like overcharge on void rays maybe?

Problem is tempests. rather thor be buffed.



Hmm yeah.
What about that hyperjump ability they wanted to give battlecruisers?
One crossed wire, one wayward pinch of potassium chlorate, one errant twitch...and kablooie!
Wintex
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Norway16838 Posts
June 06 2014 10:52 GMT
#524
This match decides who will join the After School banner!
The Bomber boy
The_Templar
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
your Country52797 Posts
June 06 2014 10:52 GMT
#525
On June 06 2014 19:48 The_Templar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 06 2014 19:45 The_Templar wrote:
[image loading]

(Z)Soulkey vs (P)Zest
0-0


Map: Overgrowth


Soulkey spawns in the top right
Zest spawns in the bottom left

2:00
Hatchery first vs Nexus first.
Third hatchery before spawning pool for Soulkey.
Zest getting a gateway followed by two assimilators.

3:00
Cybernetics core.
Faking a cannon rush for Zest.
Spawning pool finishes.

4:00
Soulkey getting some queens.
Soulkey getting zergling speed.
Stargate for Zest.
Roach warren for Zest.

5:00
Mothership core finishes.
Zest building two more gateways.

6:00
Phoenix for Zest.
Soulkey getting some roaches.
Robotics facility for Zest.

7:00 (Z)Soulkey 62 vs (P)Zest 56
Phoenixes moving out for the first time.
Roaches attack and mostly die to a mothership cannon and some zealots, killing a sentry.
Spore crawlers for Soulkey.

8:00 (Z)Soulkey 67 vs (P)Zest 63
+1 ground weapons for Zest.
Zest cutting phoenix production at 6, getting a robotics bay.

9:00 (Z)Soulkey 79 vs (P)Zest 71
Soulkey fails to kill a probe before Zest takes a third base.
Hydralisk den and evolution chamber for Soulkey.
Zerglings and 2 roaches go for the zealots at the third base.

10:00 (Z)Soulkey 92 vs (P)Zest 76
Void ray and colossus as well as extended thermal lance.
Zest lifts and kills a hydralisk.
Hydralisk range on the way.
Soulkey takes a fourth base.
Moderatorshe/her
TL+ Member
Kitaen
Profile Joined June 2011
Austria466 Posts
June 06 2014 10:52 GMT
#526
On June 06 2014 19:50 Vindicare605 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 06 2014 19:48 GumBa wrote:
On June 06 2014 19:47 Wintex wrote:
On June 06 2014 19:43 Heartland wrote:
I think we need to pay more attention to how late-game P army management is a lot about retreating and storm flanking. It's hard to fight the Terran army just in a straight up fight. It has to be zoned out, flanked and fought on favorable ground.

Exactly. A lot of terrans just accept the terms of the protoss. In a battle you should seek the favorable grounds yourself.

I wish players would build more turrets to counteract the possible drops, while also having like 2-3 marines patrolling for pylons.
A lot of the problems in TvP stem from the difficulty in obtaining vision at times where it's necessary. Making it the focus point more at the battle instead of thinking of possible shit is a way to make the engagements easier too.

Too bad that's reallllllyyy difficult.

Wish mech worked


It does at all levels on the ladder below high GM from what I've seen on streams.

It's fucking hard as hell to play though, which is why most Terrans don't bother with it. Why bother playing an overall inferior style when it isn't even easier to play?


the reason is not that it is hard, is simply uber boring if you need to turtle all game and NEVER have the ability to push since you will get absolutely murdered open field.

if mech was somehow offensive viable more people would play it i think
sharkie
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Austria18382 Posts
June 06 2014 10:53 GMT
#527
On June 06 2014 19:49 GumBa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 06 2014 19:48 sharkie wrote:
On June 06 2014 19:44 GumBa wrote:
On June 06 2014 19:43 sharkie wrote:
On June 06 2014 19:43 GumBa wrote:
On June 06 2014 19:41 sharkie wrote:
Yeah like everyone said don't go lategame vs protoss
Even a ridicilous 5% win chance all in is better than to play vs storm and colossus x.x

So we can agree no Terran is good lategame TvP


I can agree with you there.

Ok then if you admit Inno is top 3-4 TvP


Maru and Bbyong are clear top2
MMA, Flash and Innovation share 3,4,5 in between
Maybe Polt as well

lol INnos TvP is miles better than MMAs

top 5 is
Maru
Polt
INno
Bbyong
Flash (Maybe)
After Maru the positions fluctuate but in no way MMA and I say that as an MMA fan


How is Inno better in TvP than Bbyong heh
GumBa
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
United Kingdom31935 Posts
June 06 2014 10:53 GMT
#528
Just give us BW tanks and Toss wont get to tempests
To all the haters: you deserve to witness many, many more Serral victories, worthy of the godlike player he is.
Vindicare605
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States16056 Posts
June 06 2014 10:53 GMT
#529
On June 06 2014 19:52 gTank wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 06 2014 19:51 Wintex wrote:
What about for example introducing a thor change, which makes the spells it has cooldown based, and giving them an upgrade at like Tier 4/5 which requires the fusion core, but makes them deal extra shield damage. It's a bigger unit, it doesn't fly and it has a harder time dying.
On June 06 2014 19:50 gTank wrote:
On June 06 2014 19:48 herMan wrote:
On June 06 2014 19:43 Heartland wrote:
I think we need to pay more attention to how late-game P army management is a lot about retreating and storm flanking. It's hard to fight the Terran army just in a straight up fight. It has to be zoned out, flanked and fought on favorable ground.


You can force the issue by shredding mineral lines to dust and waiting for the terran come to you while you set the terms of the engagement. Protoss can just sit on his bank because the there is no terran late game army composition that will crush the protoss.


Remove the Energy on Battlecruisers and make it a skill like overcharge on void rays maybe?

Problem is tempests. rather thor be buffed.



Hmm yeah.
What about that hyperjump ability they wanted to give battlecruisers?


That's not the problem. The Battlecruiser's mobility isn't why it's useless. It's useless because almost everything Protoss has is good against it.

And then to top it off they have a unit that laughably hard counters it.
aka: KTVindicare the Geeky Bartender
aZealot
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
New Zealand5447 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-06 10:59:08
June 06 2014 10:54 GMT
#530
On June 06 2014 19:44 Kitaen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 06 2014 19:42 aZealot wrote:
On June 06 2014 19:39 marvellosity wrote:
On June 06 2014 19:38 aZealot wrote:
On June 06 2014 19:34 Ramiz1989 wrote:
On June 06 2014 19:33 zimms wrote:
On June 06 2014 19:18 aZealot wrote:
On June 06 2014 19:17 Crot4le wrote:
Come on INnoVation please win the group. I want a TvT GSL final.


Please, no. The boredom.


Yeah, enough of this TvT! I mean we just recently had a Code S TvT about 250 days ago.

He is talking about mirror matches in general. I agree with him, every non-mirror MU is better than mirror.


True, but I don't particularly like TvT either. It might be my most disliked mirror MU.

if you prefer ZvZ to TvT, you are quite literally insane.


It's touch and go between the two for me, to be honest. In either MU though I absolutely love cheesy and aggressive play.

I don't like Roach wars or Marine/Tank macro games. I find both quite boring.


lol you'r crazy, tank marine mirros produces the best games out of EVERYTHING sc2 can offer, i might be biased though, heh


Maybe just a little, mate.

I try marine/tank and I find it boring. Hence, why I usually try to do something like double reactor reapers or 1/1/1 or a proxy thor drop to marine/thor rush. I especially enjoy this latter strategy - dropping a thor and then boosting out is hilarious. That said, I've been thinking I just need to learn how to play marine/tank out rather than letting frustration get the better of me.

KT best KT ~ 2014
GumBa
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
United Kingdom31935 Posts
June 06 2014 10:54 GMT
#531
On June 06 2014 19:53 sharkie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 06 2014 19:49 GumBa wrote:
On June 06 2014 19:48 sharkie wrote:
On June 06 2014 19:44 GumBa wrote:
On June 06 2014 19:43 sharkie wrote:
On June 06 2014 19:43 GumBa wrote:
On June 06 2014 19:41 sharkie wrote:
Yeah like everyone said don't go lategame vs protoss
Even a ridicilous 5% win chance all in is better than to play vs storm and colossus x.x

So we can agree no Terran is good lategame TvP


I can agree with you there.

Ok then if you admit Inno is top 3-4 TvP


Maru and Bbyong are clear top2
MMA, Flash and Innovation share 3,4,5 in between
Maybe Polt as well

lol INnos TvP is miles better than MMAs

top 5 is
Maru
Polt
INno
Bbyong
Flash (Maybe)
After Maru the positions fluctuate but in no way MMA and I say that as an MMA fan


How is Inno better in TvP than Bbyong heh

Argue why not you put MMA above Polt in TvP I am srsly doubting your credentials. And I said after Maru it fluctuates alot it depends on the given day
To all the haters: you deserve to witness many, many more Serral victories, worthy of the godlike player he is.
sharkie
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Austria18382 Posts
June 06 2014 10:54 GMT
#532
On June 06 2014 19:52 TheDwf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 06 2014 19:48 sharkie wrote:
On June 06 2014 19:44 GumBa wrote:
On June 06 2014 19:43 sharkie wrote:
On June 06 2014 19:43 GumBa wrote:
On June 06 2014 19:41 sharkie wrote:
Yeah like everyone said don't go lategame vs protoss
Even a ridicilous 5% win chance all in is better than to play vs storm and colossus x.x

So we can agree no Terran is good lategame TvP


I can agree with you there.

Ok then if you admit Inno is top 3-4 TvP


Maru and Bbyong are clear top2
MMA, Flash and Innovation share 3,4,5 in between
Maybe Polt as well

MMA higher than Polt in TvP? Please...


I had very high regard for Polt's TvP and then he lost to both heros (who I both consider not being the best PvTers)
Wintex
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Norway16838 Posts
June 06 2014 10:55 GMT
#533
On June 06 2014 19:54 sharkie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 06 2014 19:52 TheDwf wrote:
On June 06 2014 19:48 sharkie wrote:
On June 06 2014 19:44 GumBa wrote:
On June 06 2014 19:43 sharkie wrote:
On June 06 2014 19:43 GumBa wrote:
On June 06 2014 19:41 sharkie wrote:
Yeah like everyone said don't go lategame vs protoss
Even a ridicilous 5% win chance all in is better than to play vs storm and colossus x.x

So we can agree no Terran is good lategame TvP


I can agree with you there.

Ok then if you admit Inno is top 3-4 TvP


Maru and Bbyong are clear top2
MMA, Flash and Innovation share 3,4,5 in between
Maybe Polt as well

MMA higher than Polt in TvP? Please...


I had very high regard for Polt's TvP and then he lost to both heros (who I both consider not being the best PvTers)

herO(join) is weird tho. He just wins matches he shouldn't win.
The Bomber boy
GumBa
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
United Kingdom31935 Posts
June 06 2014 10:55 GMT
#534
On June 06 2014 19:54 sharkie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 06 2014 19:52 TheDwf wrote:
On June 06 2014 19:48 sharkie wrote:
On June 06 2014 19:44 GumBa wrote:
On June 06 2014 19:43 sharkie wrote:
On June 06 2014 19:43 GumBa wrote:
On June 06 2014 19:41 sharkie wrote:
Yeah like everyone said don't go lategame vs protoss
Even a ridicilous 5% win chance all in is better than to play vs storm and colossus x.x

So we can agree no Terran is good lategame TvP


I can agree with you there.

Ok then if you admit Inno is top 3-4 TvP


Maru and Bbyong are clear top2
MMA, Flash and Innovation share 3,4,5 in between
Maybe Polt as well

MMA higher than Polt in TvP? Please...


I had very high regard for Polt's TvP and then he lost to both heros (who I both consider not being the best PvTers)

INno recently beat HerO. Like I dont get your arguements nobody wins 100% of the time
To all the haters: you deserve to witness many, many more Serral victories, worthy of the godlike player he is.
Kitaen
Profile Joined June 2011
Austria466 Posts
June 06 2014 10:55 GMT
#535
On June 06 2014 19:53 GumBa wrote:
Just give us BW tanks and Toss wont get to tempests


tanks are still fucking weak offensive. they might shorten to siegeup time or smth like that
lichter
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
June 06 2014 10:56 GMT
#536
This is some lousy creep spread for roach hydra.
AdministratorYOU MUST HEED MY INSTRUCTIONS TAKE OFF YOUR THIIIINGS
Dreamer.T
Profile Joined December 2009
United States3584 Posts
June 06 2014 10:56 GMT
#537
On June 06 2014 19:45 OrjaN wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 06 2014 19:40 Parcelleus wrote:
On June 06 2014 19:33 Wintex wrote:
On June 06 2014 19:32 Vindicare605 wrote:
On June 06 2014 19:30 Dreamer.T wrote:
That's every terran's worse nightmare.


It will forever annoy the crap out of me when I land EMPs all over the entire Protoss army, but still lose everything because one or two storms kills my entire ground force.

EMP and Storm are just not equally dangerous. Storm is definitely a lot more decisive in battles.

Only because EMP is the countermeasure and Storm is the... measure.

Engaging the protoss army will forever be a hard task. How to split to maximize the dps while surviving is a task few have mastered.


Then don't A-move. EMP has more range than storm.


1 more range, yes. Hardly worth mentioning as EMP still is a missile vs the instant cast of storm.


Toss have also learned not to foolishly leave their templars in the front. They are usually behind the collosi and army or spread out, and it takes more than 1 emp to clear a clump of templars of their mana (which is why sometimes terrans prefer sniping them)
Forever the best, IMMvp <3
The_Templar
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
your Country52797 Posts
June 06 2014 10:56 GMT
#538
On June 06 2014 19:52 The_Templar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 06 2014 19:48 The_Templar wrote:
On June 06 2014 19:45 The_Templar wrote:
[image loading]

(Z)Soulkey vs (P)Zest
0-0


Map: Overgrowth


Soulkey spawns in the top right
Zest spawns in the bottom left

2:00
Hatchery first vs Nexus first.
Third hatchery before spawning pool for Soulkey.
Zest getting a gateway followed by two assimilators.

3:00
Cybernetics core.
Faking a cannon rush for Zest.
Spawning pool finishes.

4:00
Soulkey getting some queens.
Soulkey getting zergling speed.
Stargate for Zest.
Roach warren for Zest.

5:00
Mothership core finishes.
Zest building two more gateways.

6:00
Phoenix for Zest.
Soulkey getting some roaches.
Robotics facility for Zest.

7:00 (Z)Soulkey 62 vs (P)Zest 56
Phoenixes moving out for the first time.
Roaches attack and mostly die to a mothership cannon and some zealots, killing a sentry.
Spore crawlers for Soulkey.

8:00 (Z)Soulkey 67 vs (P)Zest 63
+1 ground weapons for Zest.
Zest cutting phoenix production at 6, getting a robotics bay.

9:00 (Z)Soulkey 79 vs (P)Zest 71
Soulkey fails to kill a probe before Zest takes a third base.
Hydralisk den and evolution chamber for Soulkey.
Zerglings and 2 roaches go for the zealots at the third base.

10:00 (Z)Soulkey 92 vs (P)Zest 76
Void ray and colossus as well as extended thermal lance.
Zest lifts and kills a hydralisk.
Hydralisk range on the way.
Soulkey takes a fourth base.

12:00 (Z)Soulkey 104 vs (P)Zest 104
More drones being lifted by the 6 phoenixes, none of which have died.
Roach and hydralisk speed being researched.
Phoenixes whittle the drones down to 60, but 2 die to hydralisks.
Infestation pit on the way for Soulkey.

13:00 (Z)Soulkey 142 vs (P)Zest 132
+2 ranged attack for Soulkey.
Soulkey attacking the third and the natural but there are enough colossi to go around.
Soulkey getting hive.
Zest researching blink and +2 ground attack.
4 more gateways for Zest.

15:00 (Z)Soulkey 189 vs (P)Zest 162
Soulkey retreats to his fourth.
Soulkey getting 2 vipers.
Hydralisks and roaches moving towards Zest's third again as Zest moves towards the natural of Soulkey.
Zest pulls probes.
Moderatorshe/her
TL+ Member
stuchiu
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
June 06 2014 10:56 GMT
#539
On June 06 2014 19:55 GumBa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 06 2014 19:54 sharkie wrote:
On June 06 2014 19:52 TheDwf wrote:
On June 06 2014 19:48 sharkie wrote:
On June 06 2014 19:44 GumBa wrote:
On June 06 2014 19:43 sharkie wrote:
On June 06 2014 19:43 GumBa wrote:
On June 06 2014 19:41 sharkie wrote:
Yeah like everyone said don't go lategame vs protoss
Even a ridicilous 5% win chance all in is better than to play vs storm and colossus x.x

So we can agree no Terran is good lategame TvP


I can agree with you there.

Ok then if you admit Inno is top 3-4 TvP


Maru and Bbyong are clear top2
MMA, Flash and Innovation share 3,4,5 in between
Maybe Polt as well

MMA higher than Polt in TvP? Please...


I had very high regard for Polt's TvP and then he lost to both heros (who I both consider not being the best PvTers)

INno recently beat HerO. Like I dont get your arguements nobody wins 100% of the time


You mean lost to herO?
Moderator
Vindicare605
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States16056 Posts
June 06 2014 10:56 GMT
#540
On June 06 2014 19:52 Kitaen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 06 2014 19:50 Vindicare605 wrote:
On June 06 2014 19:48 GumBa wrote:
On June 06 2014 19:47 Wintex wrote:
On June 06 2014 19:43 Heartland wrote:
I think we need to pay more attention to how late-game P army management is a lot about retreating and storm flanking. It's hard to fight the Terran army just in a straight up fight. It has to be zoned out, flanked and fought on favorable ground.

Exactly. A lot of terrans just accept the terms of the protoss. In a battle you should seek the favorable grounds yourself.

I wish players would build more turrets to counteract the possible drops, while also having like 2-3 marines patrolling for pylons.
A lot of the problems in TvP stem from the difficulty in obtaining vision at times where it's necessary. Making it the focus point more at the battle instead of thinking of possible shit is a way to make the engagements easier too.

Too bad that's reallllllyyy difficult.

Wish mech worked


It does at all levels on the ladder below high GM from what I've seen on streams.

It's fucking hard as hell to play though, which is why most Terrans don't bother with it. Why bother playing an overall inferior style when it isn't even easier to play?


the reason is not that it is hard, is simply uber boring if you need to turtle all game and NEVER have the ability to push since you will get absolutely murdered open field.

if mech was somehow offensive viable more people would play it i think


I don't think boredom has that much to do with it.

The mass raven style that was real popular on the ladder against Zerg was the most mind numbingly boring style I've ever seen, but plenty of Terrans did it because it had a high win rate.
aka: KTVindicare the Geeky Bartender
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