EPT[IEM] Grand Finals World Championships 2014 - Page 125
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SiDX
New Zealand1975 Posts
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Sipario
Italy206 Posts
On March 17 2014 03:33 TotalBiscuit wrote: Time to drop some motherfuckin stats. 100k for SC2 is GREAT. Wanna know why? Because according to SC2ranks.com, there are 328,642 ladder players active during this season. So why is this great? Well, whenever someone drops some stupid statistic like "Oh look at this LoL final getting 350,000 in their best case scenario of white dudes vs Koreans", you can look at LoL's player statistics and see that actually the conversion of players to eSports viewers is far lower. According to Riot stats, which are most likely fudged but even if they're anywhere near... you have over 60 million monthly players yet these events are only converting that into 385,000 viewers concurrent? It's impossible to know how many uniques the SC2 and LoL streams got but if we compare concurrent, you are looking in the best possible case scenario at a ridiculous 32% player to viewer ratio for Starcraft 2 and fairly pitiful 1.91% ratio for League of Legends. I'm saying best case scenario because SC2ranks is only pulling ladder player stats whereas the League stats include everyone in every possible game mode. SC2 has more than 350,000 active players doing team games, unranked customs and Arcade, but even if you tripled SC2s playerbase, the ratio is still ridiculous. SC2s audience in general is more supportive of competitive play, more interested in eSports and as a result more likely to respond passionately (and negatively) in situations such as this. We should be celebrating that conversion ratio, not trying to chase a viewercount that passed us two years ago and is going to keep passing us whether we like it or not. We have a large, healthy playerbase who likes to watch eSports events and who is on average older with more disposable income. That's very marketable to sponsors. If organisations are savvy and careful, they can create sustainable businesses around this game. WCS continues to get strong numbers, SHOUTcraft Clan Wars, a $500 per match event, is pulling in more than 40,000 viewers across its live shows, reruns and vods and is running in the black while continuing to grow. IEM Cologne was an instudio event that peaked at over 100,000 if you include the foreign language streams, again a model of sustainability and common sense. People are extra salty after a terrible final and a questionable prize distribution model, but can we please just take a step back, look at the facts and stop comparing ourselves to a free2play dota-clone with mass casual appeal. Guess what, we're also less popular than Angry Birds, are you going to get salty about that too? If you actually love this game as much as you all claim, then focus on enjoying great games and supporting cool events. so fucking right man !!! | ||
Shellshock
United States97276 Posts
On March 17 2014 05:27 BigFan wrote: Missed this final. Were the games any good? I'm surprised that herO lost to sOs though >.> Isn't PvP his forte? I guess sOs is that crafty then lol. LOL While herO's PvP is really good, his PvZ is his best matchup statistically sOs has pretty much always had extremely good PvP as well | ||
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negativedge
4279 Posts
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Shellshock
United States97276 Posts
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negativedge
4279 Posts
On March 17 2014 12:39 Shellshock wrote: I dont think anyone but either of them will ever know if the prize was split or not in any way. It's been addressed on multiple occasions leading up to the tournament that it was a likely scenario but I doubt you could ever prove anything unless herO or sOs explicitly said it was done. well, they could want to get it in writing to at least try to make it legally binding. if no one knows, there is nothing stopping the winner (sos in this case, obviously) from backing out of his word. I don't even know that news of an agreement would cause any kind of shit storm, because I don't think anyone could realistically blame them for hedging. | ||
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wongfeihung
United States763 Posts
On March 17 2014 09:49 matthy wrote: Worst, finals, EVER I'm pretty sure there have been worse finals. Stop being overdramatic. | ||
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Waise
3165 Posts
On March 17 2014 13:13 wongfeihung wrote: I'm pretty sure there have been worse finals. Stop being overdramatic. i personally enjoyed games 1 and 4 a lot, and 2 and 5 were still tense and interesting even if they weren't as exciting the only bullshit game was game 3 where sos GGed immediately upon seeing the DTs, and that's just a build order thing that could happen to any two players honestly if people weren't on edge these days about protoss being broken i don't think the reaction to these finals is the same. having a bunch of crazy cheeses in a finals isn't inherently bad, i found it pretty cool. they both played well | ||
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Clbull
United Kingdom1439 Posts
On March 17 2014 03:33 TotalBiscuit wrote: Time to drop some motherfuckin stats. 100k for SC2 is GREAT. Wanna know why? Because according to SC2ranks.com, there are 328,642 ladder players active during this season. So why is this great? Well, whenever someone drops some stupid statistic like "Oh look at this LoL final getting 350,000 in their best case scenario of white dudes vs Koreans", you can look at LoL's player statistics and see that actually the conversion of players to eSports viewers is far lower. According to Riot stats, which are most likely fudged but even if they're anywhere near... you have over 60 million monthly players yet these events are only converting that into 385,000 viewers concurrent? It's impossible to know how many uniques the SC2 and LoL streams got but if we compare concurrent, you are looking in the best possible case scenario at a ridiculous 32% player to viewer ratio for Starcraft 2 and fairly pitiful 1.91% ratio for League of Legends. I'm saying best case scenario because SC2ranks is only pulling ladder player stats whereas the League stats include everyone in every possible game mode. SC2 has more than 350,000 active players doing team games, unranked customs and Arcade, but even if you tripled SC2s playerbase, the ratio is still ridiculous. SC2s audience in general is more supportive of competitive play, more interested in eSports and as a result more likely to respond passionately (and negatively) in situations such as this. We should be celebrating that conversion ratio, not trying to chase a viewercount that passed us two years ago and is going to keep passing us whether we like it or not. We have a large, healthy playerbase who likes to watch eSports events and who is on average older with more disposable income. That's very marketable to sponsors. If organisations are savvy and careful, they can create sustainable businesses around this game. WCS continues to get strong numbers, SHOUTcraft Clan Wars, a $500 per match event, is pulling in more than 40,000 viewers across its live shows, reruns and vods and is running in the black while continuing to grow. IEM Cologne was an instudio event that peaked at over 100,000 if you include the foreign language streams, again a model of sustainability and common sense. People are extra salty after a terrible final and a questionable prize distribution model, but can we please just take a step back, look at the facts and stop comparing ourselves to a free2play dota-clone with mass casual appeal. Guess what, we're also less popular than Angry Birds, are you going to get salty about that too? If you actually love this game as much as you all claim, then focus on enjoying great games and supporting cool events. That 350,000 is Twitch only. A lot of people watch on YouTube and Azubu because to be frank, Twitch is a rather crappy platform for watching eSports when there's a large number of viewers and hence lots of lag. | ||
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Emerson_H
United States460 Posts
On March 17 2014 09:49 matthy wrote: Worst, finals, EVER I remember Seed vs MC being equally as depressing. Though, I do find sOs's play more interesting to watch due to his strategic genius. I seriously think that he can become the greatest SC2 player of all time. | ||
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asongdotnet
United States1060 Posts
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Shellshock
United States97276 Posts
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cocosoft
Sweden1068 Posts
On March 17 2014 03:51 FatCat_13 wrote: That's simply not true. Yet SCBW never reached 100k viewers outside Korea...Your stats based on player base are irrelevant. I know a lot of dudes (including myself) who never launched SC2 yet still we watch big events from time to time. Cause it's SC1 that made the game fanbase. Old good times you know when we were students, no wife no kids... | ||
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aZealot
New Zealand5447 Posts
On March 17 2014 13:16 Waise wrote: i personally enjoyed games 1 and 4 a lot, and 2 and 5 were still tense and interesting even if they weren't as exciting the only bullshit game was game 3 where sos GGed immediately upon seeing the DTs, and that's just a build order thing that could happen to any two players honestly if people weren't on edge these days about protoss being broken i don't think the reaction to these finals is the same. having a bunch of crazy cheeses in a finals isn't inherently bad, i found it pretty cool. they both played well I just watched the vods and I agree. G1 and G2 were classic. I expected a proxy gate sometime in the set, but two in the first two games? Hilarious! And wtf herO? Why not scout with 100k on the line - come on, it's PvP you have to check around your base and natural. G4 was so tense, I have no idea how sOs held that even if herO's usually solid army micro failed him. Overall, I enjoyed the series (although I am a Protoss). I think I would have enjoyed it even more if I had watched it live. | ||
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Micro_Jackson
Germany2002 Posts
On March 17 2014 12:39 Shellshock wrote: I dont think anyone but either of them will ever know if the prize was split or not in any way. It's been addressed on multiple occasions leading up to the tournament that it was a likely scenario but I doubt you could ever prove anything unless herO or sOs explicitly said it was done. Judging from the reaction of Hero and that both played tryhard ugly i am not sure about this. | ||
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Zorkmid
4410 Posts
Why wouldn't LoL just start selling ad space right in the game client youtube style. | ||
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fishjie
United States1519 Posts
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GwSC
United States1997 Posts
On March 17 2014 16:22 Zorkmid wrote: Why would the conversion rate mean anything at all to anyone but a statistician? Aren't advertisers after bums in seats? If LoL has like 60 million players each month and only gets 350,000 viewers, isn't that still 7 times what SC2 gets? Why wouldn't LoL just start selling ad space right in the game client youtube style. I guess the reasoning could be that if one game has 1/3rd of it's fans watching events, those fans are more likely to be of the "hardcore" fan variety that will follow teams, buy team merchandise with logos, specifically choose a product because the company supports their favorite player or team, etc. On the other hand, a game like League of Legends with close to 200 times the player base of SC2 only attracting 3 to 6 times the viewer numbers points to a much higher percentage of casual fans that happened to stumble upon the stream because they saw it advertised in the game client. Of course more eyeballs on your ads is good, but those casual fans are less likely to get invested in specific teams or players and their sponsors, or tournament sponsors. That isn't to say LoL doesn't have a lot of hardcore fans, but the massive player base means a lot of those 350k viewers are going to be people who just tuned in out of curiosity and don't necessarily care about the players/teams/competitive scene. | ||
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liberate71
Australia10252 Posts
On March 17 2014 03:33 TotalBiscuit wrote: Time to drop some motherfuckin stats. 100k for SC2 is GREAT. Wanna know why? Because according to SC2ranks.com, there are 328,642 ladder players active during this season. So why is this great? Well, whenever someone drops some stupid statistic like "Oh look at this LoL final getting 350,000 in their best case scenario of white dudes vs Koreans", you can look at LoL's player statistics and see that actually the conversion of players to eSports viewers is far lower. According to Riot stats, which are most likely fudged but even if they're anywhere near... you have over 60 million monthly players yet these events are only converting that into 385,000 viewers concurrent? It's impossible to know how many uniques the SC2 and LoL streams got but if we compare concurrent, you are looking in the best possible case scenario at a ridiculous 32% player to viewer ratio for Starcraft 2 and fairly pitiful 1.91% ratio for League of Legends. I'm saying best case scenario because SC2ranks is only pulling ladder player stats whereas the League stats include everyone in every possible game mode. SC2 has more than 350,000 active players doing team games, unranked customs and Arcade, but even if you tripled SC2s playerbase, the ratio is still ridiculous. SC2s audience in general is more supportive of competitive play, more interested in eSports and as a result more likely to respond passionately (and negatively) in situations such as this. We should be celebrating that conversion ratio, not trying to chase a viewercount that passed us two years ago and is going to keep passing us whether we like it or not. We have a large, healthy playerbase who likes to watch eSports events and who is on average older with more disposable income. That's very marketable to sponsors. If organisations are savvy and careful, they can create sustainable businesses around this game. WCS continues to get strong numbers, SHOUTcraft Clan Wars, a $500 per match event, is pulling in more than 40,000 viewers across its live shows, reruns and vods and is running in the black while continuing to grow. IEM Cologne was an instudio event that peaked at over 100,000 if you include the foreign language streams, again a model of sustainability and common sense. People are extra salty after a terrible final and a questionable prize distribution model, but can we please just take a step back, look at the facts and stop comparing ourselves to a free2play dota-clone with mass casual appeal. Guess what, we're also less popular than Angry Birds, are you going to get salty about that too? If you actually love this game as much as you all claim, then focus on enjoying great games and supporting cool events. Dem mother fuckin stats be dropped. Well said TB. I personally enjoyed the finals, it was a quirky bunch of madness that we know $O$ for and will continue to know him for - and really summed up the whole event. Not so much in 'how the other games played out' - but just the crazy nature of the games, the players, the gg timings, the staff, all sorts... really great experience and I loved the whole thing  | ||
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sharkie
Austria18631 Posts
On March 17 2014 16:30 fishjie wrote: i wonder if this brutal loss will result in her0 going into a downward spiral. he looked crushed at the end there ![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bi3Q_YGCAAE6WX9.jpg:large) don't worry! | ||
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