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On March 07 2014 22:36 Ragnarork wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2014 22:34 imrusty269 wrote:On March 07 2014 22:30 Green_25 wrote:
What exactly do people expect from Hero? For him to not try and win?
He's going to do whatever he thinks gives him the best chance of winning, same as every other pro player.
Disgusting that people are giving him shit. Not Life, and if you look harder, there should be other as well. I'm sure Life plays to lose. Definitely.
Just saying some pro-players deserve more respect than others, and his "every" in bold is plain wrong.
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On March 07 2014 22:36 Rollora wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2014 22:36 Nebuchad wrote:On March 07 2014 22:34 ArTiFaKs wrote:
I've been saying for awhile now that make the MsC vision radius 6 instead of 9. Could we possibly not change the game parameters every time one terran loses one game? well if he loses to the same failed unit design, why not?
Because it's one game?
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On March 07 2014 22:34 ArTiFaKs wrote:
I've been saying for awhile now that make the MsC vision radius 6 instead of 9. That way it's 1 range more than widow mine range, giving them chances to spot for Widow mines but one slight control mistake and it will be hit by widow mine. This increases skill needed to control, also gives Marines much better chance of sniping it at some point.
The major change: Make TimeWarp an upgrade at the Twilight Council, cost 150/150 same as Blink. This would force Protoss to either get Blink and go, or slow down the timing of the all-in or aggressive build having to wait for TimeWarp to research as well if you want to have your build included in the attack (since both are at the TC they can't both be upgraded at one time either) This would make the early timings much weaker, while keeping the defensive integrity of the MsC early game so as to not screw up the other matchups (PvP mostly), as well as limit the offensive utility so early on. This would also nerf Blink without actually having to mess around with Blink itself, because I think everyone can agree that Blink itself isn't the problem, it's the MsC and it's support utility along with the Blink Stalkers so early on that is the problem. This would solve that problem I think.
I think these 2 nerfs would be sufficient to where it wouldn't be almost an automatic win on these kinds of maps, while also not severely nerfing Protoss in the later stages of the game or defensively early on. Just a suggestion feel free to criticize or make adjustments if you are more qualified.
Apparently 9 vision is "BLIND". Didn't you get the memo?
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On March 07 2014 22:38 imrusty269 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2014 22:36 Ragnarork wrote:On March 07 2014 22:34 imrusty269 wrote:On March 07 2014 22:30 Green_25 wrote:
What exactly do people expect from Hero? For him to not try and win?
He's going to do whatever he thinks gives him the best chance of winning, same as every other pro player.
Disgusting that people are giving him shit. Not Life, and if you look harder, there should be other as well. I'm sure Life plays to lose. Definitely. Just saying some pro-players deserve more respect than others, and his "every" in bold is plain wrong.
Eddard Stark, is that you?
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On March 07 2014 22:13 imrusty269 wrote:
On one hand you have 15 yo Life who refuses to play Daedalus point against protoss, one the other you have guys like herO.
That's his problem, no one else is not going to abuse whatever advantage they have, it's silly not to, let blizzard fix issues if there are any.
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On March 07 2014 22:38 imrusty269 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2014 22:36 Ragnarork wrote:On March 07 2014 22:34 imrusty269 wrote:On March 07 2014 22:30 Green_25 wrote:
What exactly do people expect from Hero? For him to not try and win?
He's going to do whatever he thinks gives him the best chance of winning, same as every other pro player.
Disgusting that people are giving him shit. Not Life, and if you look harder, there should be other as well. I'm sure Life plays to lose. Definitely. Just saying some pro-players deserve more respect than others, and his "every" in bold is plain wrong.
"Plain wrong" that all people that are paid to play games use the strategy they're the most comfortable with?
I can agree with this, if you include Destiny and MaximusBlack.
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On March 07 2014 22:34 imrusty269 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2014 22:30 Green_25 wrote:
What exactly do people expect from Hero? For him to not try and win?
He's going to do whatever he thinks gives him the best chance of winning, same as every other pro player.
Disgusting that people are giving him shit. Not Life, and if you look harder, there should be other as well.
Yes, Life never does stuff like 10pools and always go for the honorable 30min norush.
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France9034 Posts
On March 07 2014 22:38 imrusty269 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2014 22:36 Ragnarork wrote:On March 07 2014 22:34 imrusty269 wrote:On March 07 2014 22:30 Green_25 wrote:
What exactly do people expect from Hero? For him to not try and win?
He's going to do whatever he thinks gives him the best chance of winning, same as every other pro player.
Disgusting that people are giving him shit. Not Life, and if you look harder, there should be other as well. I'm sure Life plays to lose. Definitely. Just saying some pro-players deserve more respect than others, and his "every" in bold is plain wrong.
It's the same as every other pro players. Some have the talent to make it through thanks to innovative plays, some have the dedication to train to master the best options in the game for them to win.
Respect is completely justified for every win. The fact you find it impressive/entertaining/whatever else or not is a completely different topic.
herO won, he deserves respect. Has vs Jaedong is exactly the same. Has deserves respect (but holy hell how lacking that must be so far...)
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On March 07 2014 22:38 royalroadweed wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2014 22:34 ArTiFaKs wrote:
I've been saying for awhile now that make the MsC vision radius 6 instead of 9. That way it's 1 range more than widow mine range, giving them chances to spot for Widow mines but one slight control mistake and it will be hit by widow mine. This increases skill needed to control, also gives Marines much better chance of sniping it at some point.
The major change: Make TimeWarp an upgrade at the Twilight Council, cost 150/150 same as Blink. This would force Protoss to either get Blink and go, or slow down the timing of the all-in or aggressive build having to wait for TimeWarp to research as well if you want to have your build included in the attack (since both are at the TC they can't both be upgraded at one time either) This would make the early timings much weaker, while keeping the defensive integrity of the MsC early game so as to not screw up the other matchups (PvP mostly), as well as limit the offensive utility so early on. This would also nerf Blink without actually having to mess around with Blink itself, because I think everyone can agree that Blink itself isn't the problem, it's the MsC and it's support utility along with the Blink Stalkers so early on that is the problem. This would solve that problem I think.
I think these 2 nerfs would be sufficient to where it wouldn't be almost an automatic win on these kinds of maps, while also not severely nerfing Protoss in the later stages of the game or defensively early on. Just a suggestion feel free to criticize or make adjustments if you are more qualified. Apparently 9 vision is "BLIND". Didn't you get the memo?
And Blink allin is ''useless'', ''unviable'' and a ''build for lower leagues only'' after the nerf.
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France9034 Posts
On March 07 2014 22:46 Morbidius wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2014 22:38 royalroadweed wrote:On March 07 2014 22:34 ArTiFaKs wrote:
I've been saying for awhile now that make the MsC vision radius 6 instead of 9. That way it's 1 range more than widow mine range, giving them chances to spot for Widow mines but one slight control mistake and it will be hit by widow mine. This increases skill needed to control, also gives Marines much better chance of sniping it at some point.
The major change: Make TimeWarp an upgrade at the Twilight Council, cost 150/150 same as Blink. This would force Protoss to either get Blink and go, or slow down the timing of the all-in or aggressive build having to wait for TimeWarp to research as well if you want to have your build included in the attack (since both are at the TC they can't both be upgraded at one time either) This would make the early timings much weaker, while keeping the defensive integrity of the MsC early game so as to not screw up the other matchups (PvP mostly), as well as limit the offensive utility so early on. This would also nerf Blink without actually having to mess around with Blink itself, because I think everyone can agree that Blink itself isn't the problem, it's the MsC and it's support utility along with the Blink Stalkers so early on that is the problem. This would solve that problem I think.
I think these 2 nerfs would be sufficient to where it wouldn't be almost an automatic win on these kinds of maps, while also not severely nerfing Protoss in the later stages of the game or defensively early on. Just a suggestion feel free to criticize or make adjustments if you are more qualified. Apparently 9 vision is "BLIND". Didn't you get the memo? And Blink allin is ''useless'', ''unviable'' and a ''build for lower leagues only'' after the nerf.
Funny how people think a nerf on a strat should kill it. People, a successful balance update.... balances things, it doesn't necessarily have to kill it!
Oh and it's not been that much since the patch, let's not go crazy there too fast please.
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On March 07 2014 22:52 Ragnarork wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2014 22:46 Morbidius wrote:On March 07 2014 22:38 royalroadweed wrote:On March 07 2014 22:34 ArTiFaKs wrote:
I've been saying for awhile now that make the MsC vision radius 6 instead of 9. That way it's 1 range more than widow mine range, giving them chances to spot for Widow mines but one slight control mistake and it will be hit by widow mine. This increases skill needed to control, also gives Marines much better chance of sniping it at some point.
The major change: Make TimeWarp an upgrade at the Twilight Council, cost 150/150 same as Blink. This would force Protoss to either get Blink and go, or slow down the timing of the all-in or aggressive build having to wait for TimeWarp to research as well if you want to have your build included in the attack (since both are at the TC they can't both be upgraded at one time either) This would make the early timings much weaker, while keeping the defensive integrity of the MsC early game so as to not screw up the other matchups (PvP mostly), as well as limit the offensive utility so early on. This would also nerf Blink without actually having to mess around with Blink itself, because I think everyone can agree that Blink itself isn't the problem, it's the MsC and it's support utility along with the Blink Stalkers so early on that is the problem. This would solve that problem I think.
I think these 2 nerfs would be sufficient to where it wouldn't be almost an automatic win on these kinds of maps, while also not severely nerfing Protoss in the later stages of the game or defensively early on. Just a suggestion feel free to criticize or make adjustments if you are more qualified. Apparently 9 vision is "BLIND". Didn't you get the memo? And Blink allin is ''useless'', ''unviable'' and a ''build for lower leagues only'' after the nerf. Funny how people think a nerf on a strat should kill it. People, a successful balance update.... balances things, it doesn't necessarily have to kill it! Oh and it's not been that much since the patch, let's not go crazy there too fast please.
I don't know, they seemed pretty intent on killing infestors and hellbats with the nerfs. They mostly suceeded.
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France9034 Posts
On March 07 2014 22:56 Morbidius wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2014 22:52 Ragnarork wrote:On March 07 2014 22:46 Morbidius wrote:On March 07 2014 22:38 royalroadweed wrote:On March 07 2014 22:34 ArTiFaKs wrote:
I've been saying for awhile now that make the MsC vision radius 6 instead of 9. That way it's 1 range more than widow mine range, giving them chances to spot for Widow mines but one slight control mistake and it will be hit by widow mine. This increases skill needed to control, also gives Marines much better chance of sniping it at some point.
The major change: Make TimeWarp an upgrade at the Twilight Council, cost 150/150 same as Blink. This would force Protoss to either get Blink and go, or slow down the timing of the all-in or aggressive build having to wait for TimeWarp to research as well if you want to have your build included in the attack (since both are at the TC they can't both be upgraded at one time either) This would make the early timings much weaker, while keeping the defensive integrity of the MsC early game so as to not screw up the other matchups (PvP mostly), as well as limit the offensive utility so early on. This would also nerf Blink without actually having to mess around with Blink itself, because I think everyone can agree that Blink itself isn't the problem, it's the MsC and it's support utility along with the Blink Stalkers so early on that is the problem. This would solve that problem I think.
I think these 2 nerfs would be sufficient to where it wouldn't be almost an automatic win on these kinds of maps, while also not severely nerfing Protoss in the later stages of the game or defensively early on. Just a suggestion feel free to criticize or make adjustments if you are more qualified. Apparently 9 vision is "BLIND". Didn't you get the memo? And Blink allin is ''useless'', ''unviable'' and a ''build for lower leagues only'' after the nerf. Funny how people think a nerf on a strat should kill it. People, a successful balance update.... balances things, it doesn't necessarily have to kill it! Oh and it's not been that much since the patch, let's not go crazy there too fast please. I don't know, they seemed pretty intent on killing infestors and hellbats with the nerfs. They mostly suceeded.
Well, we see infestors in ZvP currently and they're not deemed "broken", they are an interesting options. We do see hellbates sometimes in mech composition (I belive in most of them but I've missed a few mech games recently so I wouldn't consider that 100% correct), so, well, they might have nerfed a bit too much, but they didn't kill the unit at all..
(And I didn't say every balance change is completely fine, but now at least it's way more tested/reviewed I think, so....)
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On March 07 2014 22:52 Ragnarork wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2014 22:46 Morbidius wrote:On March 07 2014 22:38 royalroadweed wrote:On March 07 2014 22:34 ArTiFaKs wrote:
I've been saying for awhile now that make the MsC vision radius 6 instead of 9. That way it's 1 range more than widow mine range, giving them chances to spot for Widow mines but one slight control mistake and it will be hit by widow mine. This increases skill needed to control, also gives Marines much better chance of sniping it at some point.
The major change: Make TimeWarp an upgrade at the Twilight Council, cost 150/150 same as Blink. This would force Protoss to either get Blink and go, or slow down the timing of the all-in or aggressive build having to wait for TimeWarp to research as well if you want to have your build included in the attack (since both are at the TC they can't both be upgraded at one time either) This would make the early timings much weaker, while keeping the defensive integrity of the MsC early game so as to not screw up the other matchups (PvP mostly), as well as limit the offensive utility so early on. This would also nerf Blink without actually having to mess around with Blink itself, because I think everyone can agree that Blink itself isn't the problem, it's the MsC and it's support utility along with the Blink Stalkers so early on that is the problem. This would solve that problem I think.
I think these 2 nerfs would be sufficient to where it wouldn't be almost an automatic win on these kinds of maps, while also not severely nerfing Protoss in the later stages of the game or defensively early on. Just a suggestion feel free to criticize or make adjustments if you are more qualified. Apparently 9 vision is "BLIND". Didn't you get the memo? And Blink allin is ''useless'', ''unviable'' and a ''build for lower leagues only'' after the nerf. Funny how people think a nerf on a strat should kill it. People, a successful balance update.... balances things, it doesn't necessarily have to kill it! Oh and it's not been that much since the patch, let's not go crazy there too fast please.
As much as I would usually agree with the idea of taking time to see if a patch worked, I feel like in this specific case the changes should be noticeable almost instantly as they specifically targeted one aspect of a build that has been around for ages. I don't particularly like his suggestion of nerfing the vision range again, but putting timewarp as an upgrade at the TC seems interesting enough to at least warrant giving it a run on a test map. As far as I can tell, he's right in that it nerfs blink timings and not much else, and while it doesn't cripple them, it removes the edge that causes it to be so overly dangerous. Either forcing the timing to come later allowing the terran more time to prepare, or removing timewarp from the occasion allowing the terran more freedom to hold the attack with superior control.
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On March 07 2014 22:56 Morbidius wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2014 22:52 Ragnarork wrote:On March 07 2014 22:46 Morbidius wrote:On March 07 2014 22:38 royalroadweed wrote:On March 07 2014 22:34 ArTiFaKs wrote:
I've been saying for awhile now that make the MsC vision radius 6 instead of 9. That way it's 1 range more than widow mine range, giving them chances to spot for Widow mines but one slight control mistake and it will be hit by widow mine. This increases skill needed to control, also gives Marines much better chance of sniping it at some point.
The major change: Make TimeWarp an upgrade at the Twilight Council, cost 150/150 same as Blink. This would force Protoss to either get Blink and go, or slow down the timing of the all-in or aggressive build having to wait for TimeWarp to research as well if you want to have your build included in the attack (since both are at the TC they can't both be upgraded at one time either) This would make the early timings much weaker, while keeping the defensive integrity of the MsC early game so as to not screw up the other matchups (PvP mostly), as well as limit the offensive utility so early on. This would also nerf Blink without actually having to mess around with Blink itself, because I think everyone can agree that Blink itself isn't the problem, it's the MsC and it's support utility along with the Blink Stalkers so early on that is the problem. This would solve that problem I think.
I think these 2 nerfs would be sufficient to where it wouldn't be almost an automatic win on these kinds of maps, while also not severely nerfing Protoss in the later stages of the game or defensively early on. Just a suggestion feel free to criticize or make adjustments if you are more qualified. Apparently 9 vision is "BLIND". Didn't you get the memo? And Blink allin is ''useless'', ''unviable'' and a ''build for lower leagues only'' after the nerf. Funny how people think a nerf on a strat should kill it. People, a successful balance update.... balances things, it doesn't necessarily have to kill it! Oh and it's not been that much since the patch, let's not go crazy there too fast please. I don't know, they seemed pretty intent on killing infestors and hellbats with the nerfs. They mostly suceeded.
Don't forget ghost. Dear god that snipe nerf was awful (they didn't even test it), only thing they had to do was to change it to 45 damage -15 vs massive.
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On March 07 2014 23:04 Lecon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2014 22:56 Morbidius wrote:On March 07 2014 22:52 Ragnarork wrote:On March 07 2014 22:46 Morbidius wrote:On March 07 2014 22:38 royalroadweed wrote:On March 07 2014 22:34 ArTiFaKs wrote:
I've been saying for awhile now that make the MsC vision radius 6 instead of 9. That way it's 1 range more than widow mine range, giving them chances to spot for Widow mines but one slight control mistake and it will be hit by widow mine. This increases skill needed to control, also gives Marines much better chance of sniping it at some point.
The major change: Make TimeWarp an upgrade at the Twilight Council, cost 150/150 same as Blink. This would force Protoss to either get Blink and go, or slow down the timing of the all-in or aggressive build having to wait for TimeWarp to research as well if you want to have your build included in the attack (since both are at the TC they can't both be upgraded at one time either) This would make the early timings much weaker, while keeping the defensive integrity of the MsC early game so as to not screw up the other matchups (PvP mostly), as well as limit the offensive utility so early on. This would also nerf Blink without actually having to mess around with Blink itself, because I think everyone can agree that Blink itself isn't the problem, it's the MsC and it's support utility along with the Blink Stalkers so early on that is the problem. This would solve that problem I think.
I think these 2 nerfs would be sufficient to where it wouldn't be almost an automatic win on these kinds of maps, while also not severely nerfing Protoss in the later stages of the game or defensively early on. Just a suggestion feel free to criticize or make adjustments if you are more qualified. Apparently 9 vision is "BLIND". Didn't you get the memo? And Blink allin is ''useless'', ''unviable'' and a ''build for lower leagues only'' after the nerf. Funny how people think a nerf on a strat should kill it. People, a successful balance update.... balances things, it doesn't necessarily have to kill it! Oh and it's not been that much since the patch, let's not go crazy there too fast please. I don't know, they seemed pretty intent on killing infestors and hellbats with the nerfs. They mostly suceeded. Don't forget ghost. Dear god that snipe nerf was awful (they didn't even test it), only thing they had to do was to change it to 45 damage -15 vs massive.
They dont seem to like the ''small steps approach'' when it comes to terran.
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Blizzard can release revised versions of problem maps. Yeonsu RE, etc. They did that a lot in the past and recently with Daedalus.
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On March 07 2014 23:10 Morbidius wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2014 23:04 Lecon wrote:On March 07 2014 22:56 Morbidius wrote:On March 07 2014 22:52 Ragnarork wrote:On March 07 2014 22:46 Morbidius wrote:On March 07 2014 22:38 royalroadweed wrote:On March 07 2014 22:34 ArTiFaKs wrote:
I've been saying for awhile now that make the MsC vision radius 6 instead of 9. That way it's 1 range more than widow mine range, giving them chances to spot for Widow mines but one slight control mistake and it will be hit by widow mine. This increases skill needed to control, also gives Marines much better chance of sniping it at some point.
The major change: Make TimeWarp an upgrade at the Twilight Council, cost 150/150 same as Blink. This would force Protoss to either get Blink and go, or slow down the timing of the all-in or aggressive build having to wait for TimeWarp to research as well if you want to have your build included in the attack (since both are at the TC they can't both be upgraded at one time either) This would make the early timings much weaker, while keeping the defensive integrity of the MsC early game so as to not screw up the other matchups (PvP mostly), as well as limit the offensive utility so early on. This would also nerf Blink without actually having to mess around with Blink itself, because I think everyone can agree that Blink itself isn't the problem, it's the MsC and it's support utility along with the Blink Stalkers so early on that is the problem. This would solve that problem I think.
I think these 2 nerfs would be sufficient to where it wouldn't be almost an automatic win on these kinds of maps, while also not severely nerfing Protoss in the later stages of the game or defensively early on. Just a suggestion feel free to criticize or make adjustments if you are more qualified. Apparently 9 vision is "BLIND". Didn't you get the memo? And Blink allin is ''useless'', ''unviable'' and a ''build for lower leagues only'' after the nerf. Funny how people think a nerf on a strat should kill it. People, a successful balance update.... balances things, it doesn't necessarily have to kill it! Oh and it's not been that much since the patch, let's not go crazy there too fast please. I don't know, they seemed pretty intent on killing infestors and hellbats with the nerfs. They mostly suceeded. Don't forget ghost. Dear god that snipe nerf was awful (they didn't even test it), only thing they had to do was to change it to 45 damage -15 vs massive. They dont seem to like the ''small steps approach'' when it comes to terran.
Bunker build time would like a word with you
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France9034 Posts
On March 07 2014 23:04 Tibbroar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2014 22:52 Ragnarork wrote:On March 07 2014 22:46 Morbidius wrote:On March 07 2014 22:38 royalroadweed wrote:On March 07 2014 22:34 ArTiFaKs wrote:
I've been saying for awhile now that make the MsC vision radius 6 instead of 9. That way it's 1 range more than widow mine range, giving them chances to spot for Widow mines but one slight control mistake and it will be hit by widow mine. This increases skill needed to control, also gives Marines much better chance of sniping it at some point.
The major change: Make TimeWarp an upgrade at the Twilight Council, cost 150/150 same as Blink. This would force Protoss to either get Blink and go, or slow down the timing of the all-in or aggressive build having to wait for TimeWarp to research as well if you want to have your build included in the attack (since both are at the TC they can't both be upgraded at one time either) This would make the early timings much weaker, while keeping the defensive integrity of the MsC early game so as to not screw up the other matchups (PvP mostly), as well as limit the offensive utility so early on. This would also nerf Blink without actually having to mess around with Blink itself, because I think everyone can agree that Blink itself isn't the problem, it's the MsC and it's support utility along with the Blink Stalkers so early on that is the problem. This would solve that problem I think.
I think these 2 nerfs would be sufficient to where it wouldn't be almost an automatic win on these kinds of maps, while also not severely nerfing Protoss in the later stages of the game or defensively early on. Just a suggestion feel free to criticize or make adjustments if you are more qualified. Apparently 9 vision is "BLIND". Didn't you get the memo? And Blink allin is ''useless'', ''unviable'' and a ''build for lower leagues only'' after the nerf. Funny how people think a nerf on a strat should kill it. People, a successful balance update.... balances things, it doesn't necessarily have to kill it! Oh and it's not been that much since the patch, let's not go crazy there too fast please. As much as I would usually agree with the idea of taking time to see if a patch worked, I feel like in this specific case the changes should be noticeable almost instantly as they specifically targeted one aspect of a build that has been around for ages. I don't particularly like his suggestion of nerfing the vision range again, but putting timewarp as an upgrade at the TC seems interesting enough to at least warrant giving it a run on a test map. As far as I can tell, he's right in that it nerfs blink timings and not much else, and while it doesn't cripple them, it removes the edge that causes it to be so overly dangerous. Either forcing the timing to come later allowing the terran more time to prepare, or removing timewarp from the occasion allowing the terran more freedom to hold the attack with superior control.
Yeah well, we have that kind of statements almost every patch, so, yeah...
Then again, a good balance change should not kill it but reduce its efficiency. We've seen way too few games with it so far. And we're trying to draw conclusions ? I think it's wrong.
That doesn't mean the balance is totally right, but that surely doesn't mean it's wrong/not enough either. We'll need to see more of this.
And about that Time Warp proposal, I would express my opinion carefully as I'm not qualified to talk about pro-level balance, but I fear that timewarp at the TC could leave a critical hole in the protoss early defense toolkit (then again, I don't play protoss that much, so I wouldn't really know).
Balancing is really hard, and should not be taken, talked lightly, and shouldn't be discussed in the immediate aftermath of a loss that disappoint fans anyway, as it clearly shows a tendency to drop reason and pick up emotions as a discussion tool :D (not esp. talking about you, but that LR thread ended pretty badly in my opinion...)
On March 07 2014 23:17 Panozen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2014 23:10 Morbidius wrote:On March 07 2014 23:04 Lecon wrote:On March 07 2014 22:56 Morbidius wrote:On March 07 2014 22:52 Ragnarork wrote:On March 07 2014 22:46 Morbidius wrote:On March 07 2014 22:38 royalroadweed wrote:On March 07 2014 22:34 ArTiFaKs wrote:
I've been saying for awhile now that make the MsC vision radius 6 instead of 9. That way it's 1 range more than widow mine range, giving them chances to spot for Widow mines but one slight control mistake and it will be hit by widow mine. This increases skill needed to control, also gives Marines much better chance of sniping it at some point.
The major change: Make TimeWarp an upgrade at the Twilight Council, cost 150/150 same as Blink. This would force Protoss to either get Blink and go, or slow down the timing of the all-in or aggressive build having to wait for TimeWarp to research as well if you want to have your build included in the attack (since both are at the TC they can't both be upgraded at one time either) This would make the early timings much weaker, while keeping the defensive integrity of the MsC early game so as to not screw up the other matchups (PvP mostly), as well as limit the offensive utility so early on. This would also nerf Blink without actually having to mess around with Blink itself, because I think everyone can agree that Blink itself isn't the problem, it's the MsC and it's support utility along with the Blink Stalkers so early on that is the problem. This would solve that problem I think.
I think these 2 nerfs would be sufficient to where it wouldn't be almost an automatic win on these kinds of maps, while also not severely nerfing Protoss in the later stages of the game or defensively early on. Just a suggestion feel free to criticize or make adjustments if you are more qualified. Apparently 9 vision is "BLIND". Didn't you get the memo? And Blink allin is ''useless'', ''unviable'' and a ''build for lower leagues only'' after the nerf. Funny how people think a nerf on a strat should kill it. People, a successful balance update.... balances things, it doesn't necessarily have to kill it! Oh and it's not been that much since the patch, let's not go crazy there too fast please. I don't know, they seemed pretty intent on killing infestors and hellbats with the nerfs. They mostly suceeded. Don't forget ghost. Dear god that snipe nerf was awful (they didn't even test it), only thing they had to do was to change it to 45 damage -15 vs massive. They dont seem to like the ''small steps approach'' when it comes to terran. Bunker build time would like a word with you
Hahahahahahahaha thanks for the laugh, good fellow. Indeed, the bunker build time has been a loooong story 
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On March 07 2014 23:17 Panozen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2014 23:10 Morbidius wrote:On March 07 2014 23:04 Lecon wrote:On March 07 2014 22:56 Morbidius wrote:On March 07 2014 22:52 Ragnarork wrote:On March 07 2014 22:46 Morbidius wrote:On March 07 2014 22:38 royalroadweed wrote:On March 07 2014 22:34 ArTiFaKs wrote:
I've been saying for awhile now that make the MsC vision radius 6 instead of 9. That way it's 1 range more than widow mine range, giving them chances to spot for Widow mines but one slight control mistake and it will be hit by widow mine. This increases skill needed to control, also gives Marines much better chance of sniping it at some point.
The major change: Make TimeWarp an upgrade at the Twilight Council, cost 150/150 same as Blink. This would force Protoss to either get Blink and go, or slow down the timing of the all-in or aggressive build having to wait for TimeWarp to research as well if you want to have your build included in the attack (since both are at the TC they can't both be upgraded at one time either) This would make the early timings much weaker, while keeping the defensive integrity of the MsC early game so as to not screw up the other matchups (PvP mostly), as well as limit the offensive utility so early on. This would also nerf Blink without actually having to mess around with Blink itself, because I think everyone can agree that Blink itself isn't the problem, it's the MsC and it's support utility along with the Blink Stalkers so early on that is the problem. This would solve that problem I think.
I think these 2 nerfs would be sufficient to where it wouldn't be almost an automatic win on these kinds of maps, while also not severely nerfing Protoss in the later stages of the game or defensively early on. Just a suggestion feel free to criticize or make adjustments if you are more qualified. Apparently 9 vision is "BLIND". Didn't you get the memo? And Blink allin is ''useless'', ''unviable'' and a ''build for lower leagues only'' after the nerf. Funny how people think a nerf on a strat should kill it. People, a successful balance update.... balances things, it doesn't necessarily have to kill it! Oh and it's not been that much since the patch, let's not go crazy there too fast please. I don't know, they seemed pretty intent on killing infestors and hellbats with the nerfs. They mostly suceeded. Don't forget ghost. Dear god that snipe nerf was awful (they didn't even test it), only thing they had to do was to change it to 45 damage -15 vs massive. They dont seem to like the ''small steps approach'' when it comes to terran. Bunker build time would like a word with you
what the hell? Killing infestors? Infestors where clearly OP in WoL and still are extremely strong. Just because something is a bit harder to be pulled of (fungal) doesn't mean its dead... just learn how to use it differently then...
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On March 07 2014 23:17 Salient wrote:
Blizzard can release revised versions of problem maps. Yeonsu RE, etc. They did that a lot in the past and recently with Daedalus.
The way Bbyong lost the first map had nothing to do with the map.
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EPT
